When does it become.. Fun?

cybertrucker

To start I don't want to bash the game, this an honest question.. This post is a little long

OK so here goes. I've been out of mmo gaming a few years. Recently  I decided to.give it a go again. As a point of reference last time i played an MMO was guild wars 2 and stopped due to other real life matters right around the time heart of thorns launched. But at that time I was casual at best. 

Anyway, a few weeks back I started looking to play an MMO again (note I have been following pantheon as I like Brad's vision for MMOs ie...(bEing true multi player and social). The three games I've narrowed it down to have been ESO, NEVERWINTER, and GW2. 

I have friends playing ESO, and GW2, both kind of want me there, and I've always wanted to try Neverwinter as I wanted to explore dnd lore and the gameplay has always looked fun. 

So out of those three I have played some Neverwinter, and some ESO (first timer for ESO). Neverwinter is proving fun but very linear, more so than I typically like. But the community is both friendly and helpful.  And the combat is proving to be really well done. The story is decent, and the community says it gets even better later..

I've Held off on going back to GW2 for now. 

Which leaves me with ESO..  So I picked up a box for this about 9 months ago. (Pre expansion). But didn't start playing, very casually for now, until a few weeks ago.  Now while I have spent about 5 or 6 hours in game I've only reached level 12 as I've been exploring the new areas and being pulled around by the starting island quests. 


So last night as I was running around I began wondering, when does the game become fun? I mean the world seems well developed, the story arcs are decent.. I did like the beginning part where I had to escape the afterlife.. But nothing so far after that has grabbed me, or hooked me enough to say, wow I want to play this game long term. I do see the potential of a lot of depth within the game. The openness of character development is nice, as is the big world, but  while the world is big it seems rather lifeless, and static, and while the stories and quests seem well written, they seem slow and drawn out. Lastly is the combat. Out of the titles I've listed. The combat in ESO seems rather bland, and clunky. 

So I'm here asking when does the game pick up speed and become fun? I still plan to stick around for a bit to keep trying it some more. But it's lacking the oompff of the other titles mentioned above.. One of my friends told me last night I need to leave the starter islands for it to get fun. I asked him shouldn't that be when the game really needs to grab your attention.. He agreed with me on that..that it is slow.  And then wanted me to come to an area where he is out which apparently locked behind a paid content download. That's another matter entirely.   Anyway unlogged out shortly afterwards. I did make it to the red guard capital. 

So ESO players.. When does this game become fun? Im sorry if this seems critical of the game, but its an honest question. Thank you for honest answers you may give. 

Alpius

Wish I could give you a proper answer, but all I can say is I've gotten into the 40s and was still rather bored with all of it. The Morrowind expansion is actually pretty good, but a brand new character really shouldn't be going there.

So when does it become fun? Maybe after the main story?

Octagon7711

It would depend on what you enjoy most in an MMO.  For me it was the exploration.  I created one of every class to see which one I liked the best and ended up leveling them all.  I also enjoyed taking my low level characters and doing the vamp and werewolf quest with some of them then returned to the main city to pick up the regular quest lines so I could level those skills sooner.

The nice thing about the game is it's flexibility.  Lot to do so you can pick and choose.  

I think most people enjoy either questing or getting into the PvP as soon as possible, crafting, or role playing. Probably grouping also because you can join up to five guilds.  Most people join a crafting guilds, grouping guilds, pvp guilds, or what ever interest you have.

Lastly addons help. I would ask around to see which are most useful.  
http://www.esoui.com/addons.php

bcbully

If your not into character customization/development, ESO might not before you. As far as combat I played keyboard like a piano in a symphony. The flow is beautiful for a skilled player. 5 hours is not even scratching the surface in ESO. 

cybertrucker

Octagon, thank you for the video. 

I will try to watch it in a bit.. 

I'm personally not a fan of multiguilds. GW2 has that also.  Never felt it added anything to help build guild loyalty, or cohesiveness. Always took pride in guilds I  was involved in. Multiguilds made them seem more like a tool/group only to be used to help me. Instead of a group of friends trying to build a guild up. 

I do like exploring. But prefer to do that with friends. Something that most MMO devs seem to not design their games around anymore unfortunately.. GW2 does offer challenging areas in the open world that you really want friends there with you. Does ESO ?, or are all those group areas limited to dungeons and PVP?

Kyleran

Seeing how you liked Neverwinter despite being quite linear perhaps ESOs more open design is actually a negative for you?

I think however the key difference is you enjoy Neverwinters combat, but not ESOs. 

As these games are pretty much all about combat, if you don't enjoy it you'll never like the game overall.

I do know how you construct your build is very important in ESO, if you haven't done much research yet I recommend doing so.

Magika  builds are pretty much the rage for all classes from what I've read here but someone like @Iselin would be much better to advise.

cybertrucker

Kyleran, the more open world is one of the things I actually do like more about ESO and is one of the things that is keeping me wanting to keep trying. 

I guess one of the problems im. Having is nothing in the open world seems that challenging. Or nothing grabs you. I may have been spoiled by GW2s dynamic events.  Neverwinter even though linear has a world where so.much is going on in the open areas.. And yes it pushes combat, which they did a damn good job with. 

I do appreciate the feedback you guys are giving. I'm hoping to get a chance to play some more this evening. 

What level in ESO does the first dungeon open up? I'm building a tankaheal Templar.  Pretty much a paladin. 

Octagon7711

cybertrucker said:

Octagon, thank you for the video. 

I will try to watch it in a bit.. 

I'm personally not a fan of multiguilds. GW2 has that also.  Never felt it added anything to help build guild loyalty, or cohesiveness. Always took pride in guilds I  was involved in. Multiguilds made them seem more like a tool/group only to be used to help me. Instead of a group of friends trying to build a guild up. 

I do like exploring. But prefer to do that with friends. Something that most MMO devs seem to not design their games around anymore unfortunately.. GW2 does offer challenging areas in the open world that you really want friends there with you. Does ESO ?, or are all those group areas limited to dungeons and PVP?

I've also played NW and now go between GW2 and ESO.  Yes, ESO has some open world bosses that  you will need help in taking down.  Those bosses are pretty much everywhere.  They are also listed as achievements in your journal, I believe, could be wrong.   Plus there are dark anchors, that are spread over the world that are like rifts in others games where the bad guys drop out of the sky and it takes a group to handle, good for grinding or getting gear sets.  

I'm not into guilds or crafting in this game but included them as general info.

cybertrucker

That's some positive news.  Love open world bosses. 

I do plan on giving the game more time. To see of something. Sticks. The next 2 or 3 months my game time is limited.  And in that limited time. I will be playing both ESO and Neverwinter, to figure out which one I like better.

Also may update GW2 just to make sure on that as well.. Always thought it was fun to play even if it is VERY casual.  

Octagon7711

I like GW2 a lot and it's even better with the new mounts.  Enjoy.

Scorchien

Altho i like ESO for the most part , my biggest gripe is the combat feels the same from lvl 10 to CP 352 (i think i stand at) .. Its just feels the same to me , much like Oblivion , (which i did not like) and GW2 which also has that same feel from lvl 30-80 ..
 
   This is the crux of scaling IMO , i hate that feeling of every encounter feeling and playing out as the thousand before it ..

  That being said 2 of the games are good for different reasons ..imo

  I like NVW combat best ..

  ESO World/Lore/ and crafting are great ( and why i keep returning )

  GW2 .. i dont have much good to say about this title .. Terrile MMORPG in every conceivable way imo

Iselin

One the first criticisms leveled at ESO when it first launched was that those starter islands are pretty meh story wise. They responded by plopping you into the starting cities in the mainland right after the Coldharbour prison tutorial and made the starter islands optional... with mixed results.

Yeah the story gets going and is much meatier than the ones in the islands but players weren't really ready to handle the content which was all level-based back in those days. Even now with level scaling there are very good reasons for doing those islands first no matter how meh they might be.

Those islands are there to get you used to fighting when your character is low level and has very few skills. Where the delves and public dungeons in the mainland can throw 3 to 10 linked enemies at you, those starter islands rarely throw more than two at you at a time and usually just one.

ESO is big on ramping up difficulty by how many enemies you have to fight at once. It's why I'm always harping on to new players that AOE skills are the key to soloing as well as running 4-man instances as DPS. That's not to say that you won't also run into tough singles and bosses - you will, but they are not nearly as frequent as the times you need to deal with packs.

You can start running dungeons at level 10 but if were you I'd wait until 15 or 20 if tanking or healing is what you want to do. You just don't have an adequate skill toolkit to pull off those two more demanding roles until later on unless you're already very experienced with the game.

Also, which dungeons you can run at level 10 is changing dramatically after next Monday's update. Before then if you queue for a random dungeon you're quite likely to get a tough dungeon that should never have been open to level 10 players and especially not players new to the game. Those are getting punted over to level 45 entry requirement after Monday.

I played GW2 also and I too wish ESO had a lot more dynamic group content. But then again I stopped playing GW2 after a while and have been playing mostly ESO for three and a half years.

Once you get the hang of building your own set of 12 skills and knowing which work where, that opens up a whole meta game beyond the consumable content they give you. For example...

I'm not much of a grinder and I prefer doing quests and 4-man dungeons when I'm not PVPing. But a couple of days ago I decided I wanted to see what all the fuss was about with an infamous grinding spot (Skyreach Catacombs) that grinders swear is the best XP/hour. So I took my max level magicka sorcerer in there with my standard soloing skills load-out and promptly had my ass handed to me when I found myself fighting about 20 skeletons and ghosts all at once... a few adjustments to my skills later (mostly spamming magic shields) I ran it with no problem at all.

That's what I like most about it. All the different ways to be a magicka DPS sorcerer and that's only one of 20 basic builds you can be (5 classes that can all tank, can all be healers and can be either magicka or Stamina DPS.)

When does it get better? Well IDK what you enjoy but for me it was definitely once the ins and outs of building a character started to click.

jitter77

I have played the 3 games you mentioned.  I could never get into GW2.  I just can not get past the whole no trinity thing.  Grouping or group activities seems to be just chaos. 

I do enjoy neverwinter.  It is a fast paced game where you can hop on do a few things and log off.  They did really dumb the game down from when it first came out though.  Once you get toward end game and trying to gear up it becomes a pain.  I stopped playing because it became a matter of me logging in queueing for a group and just waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting, then logging out.  People would try to speed through the dungeons so if your gear score wasnt well above the minimum you would get kicked out of the group.  Not sure if it is any different now or not.  I did play it on PS4 for a bit after launch, but never made it to max level. 

ESO I have played a bit, but it does seem a bit slow.  To me it is a game where you need to have a lot of time.  You can log in for an hour and it seems like you get barely anything done.  I do still play it occasionally but I never reached anywhere near max level or end game yet. 

Another game you might want to try is WildStar.  Some will bash me, but it is really not a bad game and its free.  It has combat similar to neverwinter.  I think player base is low though and who knows how long it will be around for.  They have had a pretty rough go.  When it first came out it was HARD and a lot of people left.  It has had several tweaks, a f2P launch, and a Steam launch.  The game has improved, but i think it was too little too late.

cybertrucker

Some great insightful responses. A lot to think about for sure. 

As,for wild star, I don't think I could get past the aesthetic style of the game. 

Darksworm

Gisrie said:

Wish I could give you a proper answer, but all I can say is I've gotten into the 40s and was still rather bored with all of it. The Morrowind expansion is actually pretty good, but a brand new character really shouldn't be going there.

So when does it become fun? Maybe after the main story?

The main story was the part that I found interesting.  After I finished that on my home continent, I quit immediately.

And it's not like there is any decent balanced PvP on the horizon either.  Just CP grind and more of the same.

I didn't find it entertaining at all.  It was like playing Dragon Age: Inquisition, just a bit more bland IME.

Esquire1980

The game did become a lot of fun.  As soon as I got out of it.

I found ARK.  No paywalls, no store, no LOCKBOXES, no monetization, my own servers set up like a MMORPG (PVE/PVP) with increasing difficulty per map, in game housing anywhere you want to put it (no instances), minecraft style of building, housing storage galore (again no store to sell me inventory slots and no limits on what I put into my house), boss fights that mean something (more levels), Atmospheric flight, Air to air and air to ground combat, continued development by both the developers and community via modding, exploration (no corridors just to complete a quest), making my own group via taming/mutating for stats/imprinting for stats/raising babys/ pets, in-game caves with rewards (like SWG used to be), etc etc etc.  SOOOO many choices of how I want to set up my own servers.

I'm pretty much done with supposed AAA MMORPGS.  They all seem to be out after nothing but finding ways to get into your wallet for pixels that they even claim you don't own after buying a specific product in their store.  (so they can discontinue the game, the item, change whatever stats it had, and still keep the $, etc) A sub just wasn't enough and they just do not offer anything except a old-school PVP experience or a clone of WoW with monetization gone wild.

Kajidourden

If you're not having fun yet you probably won't.  Once you hit the level cap it's basically doing dailies and then whatever else you feel like doing.

The cool thing is you never out-level things and you ALWAYS feel like you're progressing no matter what which is fantastic. 

However you'll be doing more of what you're doing right now to do that coupled with dungeons, so IMO if you're not feeling it now you'll be feeling it less @ endgame.

SEANMCAD

Kajidourden said:

If you're not having fun yet you probably won't.  Once you hit the level cap it's basically doing dailies and then whatever else you feel like doing.

The cool thing is you never out-level things and you ALWAYS feel like you're progressing no matter what which is fantastic. 

However you'll be doing more of what you're doing right now to do that coupled with dungeons, so IMO if you're not feeling it now you'll be feeling it less @ endgame.

if your not having fun on the first date its likely a sign

rodarin

Esquire1980 said:

The game did become a lot of fun.  As soon as I got out of it.

I found ARK.  No paywalls, no store, no LOCKBOXES, no monetization, my own servers set up like a MMORPG (PVE/PVP) with increasing difficulty per map, in game housing anywhere you want to put it (no instances), minecraft style of building, housing storage galore (again no store to sell me inventory slots and no limits on what I put into my house), boss fights that mean something (more levels), Atmospheric flight, Air to air and air to ground combat, continued development by both the developers and community via modding, exploration (no corridors just to complete a quest), making my own group via taming/mutating for stats/imprinting for stats/raising babys/ pets, in-game caves with rewards (like SWG used to be), etc etc etc.  SOOOO many choices of how I want to set up my own servers.

I'm pretty much done with supposed AAA MMORPGS.  They all seem to be out after nothing but finding ways to get into your wallet for pixels that they even claim you don't own after buying a specific product in their store.  (so they can discontinue the game, the item, change whatever stats it had, and still keep the $, etc) A sub just wasn't enough and they just do not offer anything except a old-school PVP experience or a clone of WoW with monetization gone wild.

Ark gets boring after awhile there is a reason why people reset maps every 4 weeks.

Golelorn

The beginning levels are pretty terrible, because you do not have many skills in combat and even if you did you wouldn't know how to use them properly. Plus you could be playing an under-performing class, which makes it worse. Most guides I have read suggest going Magicka build until max, then switching to stamina.

Getting the hang of combat in ESO is challenging. You have to build your character correctly.

All I can say is I enjoyed the game immediately. Also, I would not go to any of the DLC unless you just enjoy running quest. They are pretty boring compared to the original zones(limited delves, world bosses, shards and no dolmens). The said the wanted to make the zones bigger. They did that but then halved the content, as well. So its just a ton of empty space.

Esquire1980

rodarin said:

Esquire1980 said:

The game did become a lot of fun.  As soon as I got out of it.

I found ARK.  No paywalls, no store, no LOCKBOXES, no monetization, my own servers set up like a MMORPG (PVE/PVP) with increasing difficulty per map, in game housing anywhere you want to put it (no instances), minecraft style of building, housing storage galore (again no store to sell me inventory slots and no limits on what I put into my house), boss fights that mean something (more levels), Atmospheric flight, Air to air and air to ground combat, continued development by both the developers and community via modding, exploration (no corridors just to complete a quest), making my own group via taming/mutating for stats/imprinting for stats/raising babys/ pets, in-game caves with rewards (like SWG used to be), etc etc etc.  SOOOO many choices of how I want to set up my own servers.

I'm pretty much done with supposed AAA MMORPGS.  They all seem to be out after nothing but finding ways to get into your wallet for pixels that they even claim you don't own after buying a specific product in their store.  (so they can discontinue the game, the item, change whatever stats it had, and still keep the $, etc) A sub just wasn't enough and they just do not offer anything except a old-school PVP experience or a clone of WoW with monetization gone wild.

Ark gets boring after awhile there is a reason why people reset maps every 4 weeks.

Funny, haven't noticed that at all, neither has my guild that has followed me around since way back in SWG.  Steam tells me I have 1627 hours in ARK atm and still haven't completed leveling as my main is 112 (with all 3 ascensions) and 3 levels to go before the next expansion.  Have to admit I like ARK so much I started a second account to have a dedicated crafter with all his skillpoints in crafting so I don't have to mindwipe the combat main.  Crafter is now level 91.

We have ALL the official maps in a cluster and travel between them just like we did worlds in SWG.  Not to mention that there are plenty of maps that I haven't even looked at as yet via modders.  We have no wipes so what you build/do on 1 map stays while you head for another, and then, you can come on back.  Myself, my toon lives on The Island but has a jedi temple on SC, a castle I'm building on Rag, and a rather large SWG bunker I'm building on The Center.

I'll add in aberration as soon as it gets out on Dec 12th and there the plan is to turn on wild dinos destroying bases so defenses become a must while enjoying increased difficulty yet again.  We're also setting that one up so people can make player cities, like in SWG also.

ARK is not for the "I'm a power leveler" or "I want it now" crowd nor is it for 'I have to be lead around by the nose by developers" via questlines or "I played WOW for 100 years and I want a reskinned WOW".  Pure sandbox.  But if you happen to enjoy "living" in a world rather than playing in one, you'll probably be very happy there.

I guess it depends on what your looking for if it's "boring" to you.  Personally, I don't enjoy questing and raiding and nothing else altho ARK has it's own version of raiding also. Now that's "boring" to me.   I enjoy crafting everything I use, I very much enjoy NO STORE or LOCKBOXES, I enjoy exploration, and MMO systems to give me the tools in which to play my own style without being lead by the nose at dev content, to a store to spend more cash, or to take my chances at gambling via lockboxes, every 15 seconds.

To each there own.  But as far as TESO goes, my entire guild left at just the announcement of lockboxes.  We didn't bother to wait for the mess that became after they got there.

Kyleran

SEANMCAD said:

Kajidourden said:

If you're not having fun yet you probably won't.  Once you hit the level cap it's basically doing dailies and then whatever else you feel like doing.

The cool thing is you never out-level things and you ALWAYS feel like you're progressing no matter what which is fantastic. 

However you'll be doing more of what you're doing right now to do that coupled with dungeons, so IMO if you're not feeling it now you'll be feeling it less @ endgame.

if your not having fun on the first date its likely a sign

I've actually played some games for quite some time before deciding I enjoyed them.

Sometimes I can feel there's something to like, but can't quite confirm until I find the right role, experience specific content, or just understand what the game is all about.

EVE and DAOC were both very much like this, took 2 or 3 months to be sure.

Now some games you just know right away, STO & BDO were games I knew within a weeks trial I didn't like.

DDO wins the award for quickest game I paid full price for yet uninstalled after 2 or 3 days. 

I was totally mislead into buying it based on a friend's recommendation and nostalgic memories of SSI Gold Box games not realizing it wasn't a proper MMORPG as I enjoyed them at the time.

grimal

It sounds like it's either not for you or just not the right for it.  I've felt how you've described for many games at first only later to come back and fall in love with them.  

Try coming back later. You might find you like it better.

Loke666

Usually when someone ask "when does this game becomes fun?" it is the wrong game for them.

You havn't played it that much yet so you might change your opinion but if you still feel the same when you hit levl 20 it is probably best to cut your losses.

Everyone just don't like the same game and just because your friends like it doesn't mean you will (even though playing with friends certainly makes things more fun).

cranthug

ESO to me?  Character building, Random dungeon groups, and lots of lorebooks to read.

d_20

It's fun for me if I have some goals to work toward. Since I've basically got all the gear sets I've wanted, I don't really have anything to work toward now.

I like ESO dungeons, which is what you can run repeatedly to get your gear sets. Once that's done, people seem to like trials (raids). I'm not into large scale group activities, so I don't know how those are.

A lot of people like PVP. That's basically the endgame, I think. But after 3 years of Cyrodiil, I've had enough. I haven't tried the small scale pvp battles they introduced with Morrowind, so I don't know how those are. As I have gotten older, I've stopped caring about competitive gaming.

Some people like to work on their houses, crafting, playing the market, etc. 

I haven't completed the Morrowind content yet or started on the Clockwork City stuff. I'm taking some time off, but when I feel like it, I will go back and catch up on the dlc and level alts.