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What would it take to be one of, if not the greatest mmo?
TarzanGreen
Member UncommonPosts: 27
Many good people in this thread have said, “I don’t think anyone can truly know” or something along those lines. I agree. There are so many variables and differences possible in an mmo that it’s impossible to say overall. In hindsight I could have worded the title a little different. I guess what would make the greatest mmo, to you.
The greatest MMO, sandbox, whatever, is out there currently but just can’t get enough traction due to upfront costs it seems. Then getting that money means more voices tainting the final product, unfortunately.
Crowdfunding seems to be the way but then all of the people investing get impatient. That is understandable because hard earned money has been spent and they/we want something to play. I just think the greatest game, mmo is yet to come. There is a chance it will reach fruition.
Okay, a lot of good points so far. I have tried to research just about every aspect of games, what makes games fun, why games have failed etc. A couple people mentioned market research/data and I agree there completely. That is a juggernaut of a task but personally I find that exhilarating because I’m learning and adding to my design.
KEY THINGS so far.
I feel are needed, no particular order.
1. Sense of accomplishment.
Feeling like you did something worthwhile and enjoyed what you did. Whether playing for 10min or 10hours.
2. Variety that makes (in game) sense.
Multiple activities and tasks that aren’t simply smashed into the game to fill it out. Things that naturally interact and work with each other. (Farmer gathers high quality worms and can sell to players who fish > Then fishers trade their catch to a chef > Lumberjack consumes cooked fish meal to increase endurance when chopping wood > Crafter makes fishing pole from wood for that fisher.)
3. Unforced PvP
Open world is all PvE, with the environment providing the challenge. PvP could happen if players want to duel, also in Arenas.
4. (Crazy idea) No Global Chat (At least easily turned off chat channel). My original thought was that doing this would foster a sort of camaraderie by localizing play. Upon further reflection just simply doing this is not the best idea but I’ll revisit it.
I have been thinking about this for a number of years as I continue to enjoyably design an mmo. It seems to be greed is one of the big issues, IMO. Not the only one but businesses need to make money, just some seem to be going too far. Unfortnetly it’s seems designers and investors are just there for the money first, quick cash or return. Reeling in the whales in this age of F2P > P2W.ByrgenarHofen said:There will never be an MMO that could be called the greatest ever, as MMO players, as a collective, can not agree on what would make an MMO the greatest ever.
Just as an example, in my opinion, SWG: An Empire Divided became the greatest MMORPG ever when they added the Jump to Lightspeed expansion.
Not everyone who frequents this site, never mind everyone that plays MMOs, would agree.
The greatest MMO, sandbox, whatever, is out there currently but just can’t get enough traction due to upfront costs it seems. Then getting that money means more voices tainting the final product, unfortunately.
Crowdfunding seems to be the way but then all of the people investing get impatient. That is understandable because hard earned money has been spent and they/we want something to play. I just think the greatest game, mmo is yet to come. There is a chance it will reach fruition.
Okay, a lot of good points so far. I have tried to research just about every aspect of games, what makes games fun, why games have failed etc. A couple people mentioned market research/data and I agree there completely. That is a juggernaut of a task but personally I find that exhilarating because I’m learning and adding to my design.
KEY THINGS so far.
I feel are needed, no particular order.
1. Sense of accomplishment.
Feeling like you did something worthwhile and enjoyed what you did. Whether playing for 10min or 10hours.
2. Variety that makes (in game) sense.
Multiple activities and tasks that aren’t simply smashed into the game to fill it out. Things that naturally interact and work with each other. (Farmer gathers high quality worms and can sell to players who fish > Then fishers trade their catch to a chef > Lumberjack consumes cooked fish meal to increase endurance when chopping wood > Crafter makes fishing pole from wood for that fisher.)
3. Unforced PvP
Open world is all PvE, with the environment providing the challenge. PvP could happen if players want to duel, also in Arenas.
4. (Crazy idea) No Global Chat (At least easily turned off chat channel). My original thought was that doing this would foster a sort of camaraderie by localizing play. Upon further reflection just simply doing this is not the best idea but I’ll revisit it.
Post edited by TarzanGreen on
Comments
Maybe BM and team pull this off with Patheon
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Loads and action-packed adventuring as well as loads of social content, e.g., INNs, Taverns, Cantinas, Player Economies, etc etc etc.
Imagine playing a game like WoW, but flying your dragon to your very own non-instanced house that sits in the world. GIGANTIC LANDS.
HOLY FK! Don't come around here much anymore. Was working on new engine but taking a break.
edit: Oh I PM'ed you BTW. Incase you never look at the message bar like me.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
1: Money... A lot of money
2: A dedicated team of highly skilled people
3: A strong leader with a clear vision
4: Insane amounts of market research
5: A acceptances that all that money spent is gone and that the product might never be more than profitable.
6: A entirely fresh generation of players.
7: A 10 year plan that is still agile enough to adapt.
8: A opening in the market
9: Some tech breakthrough to open up said market
10: Luck.
In short.... It ain´t ever going to happen.
This have been a good conversation
2. ABSOLUTELY.
3. BEST but not always.
4. That should be #1. Do research BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH. (Capitalized intentionally)
5. MMOS do not make money. There are better products to make money from so yeah.
6. Not necessarily.
7. Depends on size and scope.
8. New different? Always opening in the market.
9. That comes from in house development to create the tech ones self not from cut paste someone else shit. It never works and NEVER will.
10. Should be #2. With a little luck and little money and a LOT of (that scary four letter word) WORK one can make something maybe even the greatest of all time.
Hopefully some will!
???? /crickets
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Players themselves would have to decide for once! If they want to grind towards something, go ahead. But it wouldn’t be required.
I think this is all bang on! Variety is key. Social content being an absolute must, just not forced. So players adventure solo or in a group.
A system where it is non-instanced housing would do wonders.
When you first fell in love with the genre, did you do a microanalysis on the game first before you ever stepped one foot into it? I can pretty much guess with absolute certainty that you did not.
That in itself should answer your question as to why you can't seem to find that same utopia today... you're overanalyzing things and are going in with expectations that doom the game before it ever even begins.
The kids growing up today live in an entirely different world than we grew up in. Most have had a cell phone as an appendage there ENTIRE life. The genre was a success when the internet was still new... it WAS the cell phone of our times. It doesn't fulfill that role anymore and it is why the new generation approach the game entirely different than we do.
The game you are looking for, even if it were made, would not stand the test of time because you are not living in the past anymore. Some people still play chess, the preponderance of the population does not. The game didn't change. We changed.
Games today are like the music of today... catering to a generation not our own.
That is because THE MONEY is there. Make quick game as cheaply as possible, give is a lot of media hype, get as many preorders as possible (or in cases of KS, lots of backers), setup minimal equipment with a cash shop. That is profit, profit, and more profit. Dump the game when population thins (or not even released) and go into maintained mode then move to another project.
Why do you think that is happening now?
I personally tried to bring a game under private financial backing into this genre some years ago. It didn't catch on. NOT one person showed interest. It was exactly what some here say they wanted. Wide open world, in depth crafting, build all your own cities, every changing.
It wasn't some pipe dream on some paper and asking for YOUR money in some hair brain scheme that will never get done. I showed actual functional shit that was working and got nothing but grief. The people that were backing me up with UP TO 40 MILLION dollars said "Sorry, it doesn't seem to be any interest" I agreed and said FK you all.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
The problem is human nature - even though we all strongly want something, we neither agree on what we want, nor want something cheap, nor want to pay for something expensive. If I somehow magically had all the finding I could ever want to make a brilliant, gorgeous MMO and then advertise it vigorously to gather potential players, even this kind of amazing (to me) MMO would not, over its 5 or 6 year life-span, earn back enough money to not only pay all that back, but also pay salaries to the workers, and on top of that make enough profit that I could start making the next generation of game.
To some degree I think a lot of the issues in trying to shoestring a startup without investing personal funds in a demo will lead to a lot of skepticism on whether it gets good talent. Most are highly skeptical of these kind of projects because most fail. I really don't blame people for being skeptic.
The guys (Pete and Ali) I had were really good at originality and game design. They did most of the flowchart work and made it really easy to program it in a matter of a few days. We built the templates for the entire game crafting and building system in under a month. Without their help the project would never have gotten that far. After the project failed I spent some time working on customization of character, text to lip and text to speech. Lot of flack about the t and a kind of finalized the abortion of the project.
The biggest hurdle was art and getting a writer that was willing to sacrifice a couple months of work so it could be presented to the investors and finding PR. I just did not have funds to pay a marketing firm and it was NO WHERE ready for public eyes anyway.
HONESTLY it was a fantastic experience and I am rather glad at the outcome. It was better to do the abortion then end up loosing large sums of money with lots of postmortem analysis.
The future looks bright for those willing to invest time and effort if they can find the missing links this project had.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.