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Magic-users vs "Non-magic"-users
Zindaihas
Member UncommonPosts: 3,662
This is a topic that probably belongs in the "Pub" section, but since I pretty much only come to this website to keep up on Pantheon news, I thought I would post it here. Rather than a discussion on the mechanics of an MMO, I thought it'd be interesting to have a more philosophical debate on the merits of playing a magic-based class as opposed to non-magic. Which is superior and/or which is more fun to play? Is it impossible to say as it depends on personal preference?
On its surface, to me, it appears that the magic line of classes are superior as they tend to be more versatile (and this is coming from a guy who usually plays melee characters). Depending on which class you play they can buff and de-buff, they can deal damage, they can charm, they can heal, they can port and to a small extent, they can still melee as well. In EQ, when I first started playing I marveled as some of the things magic classes could do.
However, if you dig down further into the subject, it's not as clear-cut as that. The major advantage of playing a melee class is that they are physically more powerful, allowing them to absorb more damage in battle. In addition, they can still use magic to an extent in the form of magic items they obtain in their adventures, thereby closing the gap somewhat. By contrast, no matter what you equip a magic-user with, they can't really become good melee fighters. And finally, there are the hybrid classes, which are technically considered melee classes as they tend to be 75% fighter and 25% magic-user.
So anyone else want to weigh in? I know it's probably a silly topic, but I was bored and was looking for something to pass the time. 
Comments
Only Warrior and Rogue are actually non-magic in Pantheon. Thats how it was in EQ1 and Vanguard, too.
If melee can't stunlock you and beat you into a dress-wearing, pulp, then they WILL complain and you WILL be nerfed so that you will be stunlocked and beaten into a dress-wearing, pulp.
Which is one of the reasons I don't want PvP in this game.
I don't want my PvE characters nerfed because someone else was feeling disadvantaged in PvP.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
P.s.: Hmm I obviously really have taken a LONG pause playing fantasy games that I forgot Monks aint doing magic either. Well, at least not in EQ/Vanguard/Pantheon style MMOs and in D&D. Other systems have magic monks, for example Guild Wars or Lineage 2.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I don't think I've ever played a class that got nerfed. That must be frustrating as all get out. I believe they nerfed a bow in EQ (before I started playing) that I was really looking forward to acquiring for my ranger. I read online that it was supposed to have a stun effect that would have really come in handy since rangers couldn't stun. But when I got it...no stun. That upset me.
My brother said he played a cleric when he first started playing EQ and they had these things called mana stones that were awesome. But those got nerfed and he was so upset he refused to play a cleric after that.
Item https://wiki.project1999.com/Manastone
Effect https://wiki.project1999.com/Mana_Convert
Nec had Lich https://wiki.project1999.com/Lich
But ya same thing, turning HP into Mana
Oh right, cannibalize was the Shaman spell. It sounds kind of necro-ish to me though.
Speaking of Shamans, I remember grouping with one in Old Sebilis who has a super healing spell called Torpor. With that spell, along with cannibalize, and with a regen buff on, he could heal me at an almost endless rate. Even going up against big mobs, he could heal me fast enough to keep me alive while my elf ranger was taking a pounding.
That's the kind of dynamic I'm talking about that can make casters really fun to play, and I hope they are incorporating that kind of dynamic into Pantheon. Where you can put these combinations of spells together to make your character really tough.
btw casters always had 2 advantages , one is RANGED (outside ranger but they were kinda meh at dmg) , and utility is usually the wizard that brings portals , the enchanter that is full of utility or the magician summosn , necro FD+ rez ect
warriors , rogues usually dont bring anything (rogues find trap and unlock some chests) , paladin and to some exent SK bringed auras (be it buffs or debuffs)
healers , SoW , just with that i was happy :P
imo , every class needs to have some kind of utility , so every1 is usefull outside tanking , healing or dps , and its fun being able to help others with some kind of spells.
Whether something is "magic" or "non-magic" is just a custom skin for a set of roles that a class might need to perform. One thing is for sure, the "magic" of looking at all of the various classes and feeling a sense of wonder has been smacked out of me over the years. It's a bit sad to consider that I look at these things as "statistic producers" and "role fillers" instead of characters.
I've heard that before, in more than one game.
A week after launch, abilities nerfed or completely changed because of PvP complaints.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
If I play a hybrid class, it is usually like a Shaman/Ranger/Druid, where I can do damage also, but maybe have some versatility. Play EQ warrior out of necessity for the guild to have a main tank, but glad that didn't last long...It could get aggravating people not controlling agro and chasing mobs about.
Games that it didn't work in were more concerned about streamlining their code to keep everything the same. That is unnecessary, especially in a game where PvE is more important and the vehicle for player progression.
It would be nice if they follow through with separate effects - however the cynic in me says that it won't happen that way
I remember Disciples in Vanguard complaining how they changed the class. Then I made a Disc myself and guess what: it was nothing short godmode compared to any other class.
1. I'm a programmer, I am quite familiar with the (good) practice of writing code in such a way that it can be reused.
2. Not being on the development team I cannot comment on RotF, I can only state my experiences with previous games making this claim and hope history does not, once again, repeat itself.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin