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Refund Requests Piling Up, Gazillion Remains Silent - Marvel Heroes Omega - MMORPG.com
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Refund Requests Piling Up, Gazillion Remains Silent - Marvel Heroes Omega - MMORPG.com
Marvel Heroes Omega News - After last week's announcement that Marvel Heroes Omega will be closing, the number of players asking for refunds is growing. Kotaku has culled a number of sources where players are asking for refunds. Console players are particularly frustrated since the "Omega" version of the game only launched earlier this year.
Comments
SW Battlefront II, when EA re-enables Micro-transactions again shortly after the new Star Wars film hits the theaters.
When did they let Gaz know?
Those questions need to be answered, as they will have a huge impact on how many people should be eligible for a refund.
If Disney knew months ago, and still let Gaz go ahead with console sales, should they refund all console purchases , or did players get enough play time to enable them to refuse refunds?
How far back should they go for PC players wanting a refund?
Who should be paying out the refunds, Disney or Gaz?
Really, they should have converted the game to an offline, single player game, so that people could at least play with what they paid for, if they wanted to.
Don't let kingdom hearts be the third
Rein in that cynicism.
I purchased the $150 pack when the game first launched, so I got my worth out of the game and I'm not complaining. However, a reasonable person wouldn't expect any MMO, especially a Marvel title, to completely end in only a few months. Console players really got screwed and I hope they all get their refund.
How enforceable the TOS is might well be decided in court if enough people are pissed enough.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Seriously, anyone that wants a refund, just call you bank and order them to issue a charge back on every payment you've made to them. There is nothing they will be able to do about it other than suspend your account. The game is closing so what the hell does that matter?
I hope it’s Star Wars: The Old Republic. That game sucks, and I can’t believe Disney is allowing it to remain active. They need to shut it down and reboot, preferably with a new game engine and in an era that fans care about.
Disney or those involved had to see the initial numbers and decide something fairly quickly. It begs the question of when they decided to shut down operations and if they kept on taking money once the decision was made.
So you hope that other people that enjoy the game have to deal with it being closed because you don't like it. You are just as bad as the devs that make dumb decisions. You should never wish for any game to be shut down, because guess what there are some people that actually enjoy the game. I was one of them at one time, but don't play it anymore, but I don't want to see it closed down for those that still do enjoy it. It's people like you who only care about your wants, needs, or preferences that are a part of the problem also.
With that said, I feel sorry for the people that were still playing Marvel Heroes, most of us saw this coming when they basically shit all over the people that made their game what it was, the PC players. Unfortunately the console players got screwed over worse than the PC crowd because it was just a recent title for them. Any time a dev goes silent for months at a time it is a bad thing, just some didn't see it.
Like some others have said though Disney needs to come out and say when they let the devs know they were going to pull the plug. If it was months before the announcement then I could see people having reason to ask for refunds. If it happened and was announced immediately then maybe a refund for purchases for the last couple weeks would be warranted if at all. No one deserves refunds for the entire time they played it though.
Personally if your gaming money is not disposable income you really need to step back and look at what you are doing in the long run.
That's not entirely the same situation though. The issue here isn't the quality. Buying a movie on Amazon Prime and then Amazon shutting down Prime is a better example. Digital goods carry a whole host of legal and entitlement issues that haven't been fleshed out yet because the worst, such as something like Steam shutting down, hasn't happened yet.
I'm not talking about the ethical consideration here anyway.. I'm just saying that if someone feels like they deserve a refund there's a simple way to get one.
Although some may think its unethical to file charge back for funds back, you could still do it they would have to challenge it in a court chances are you just get your money back because its not worth their time after all the game company is going out of business anyways, and likely knew it months before hand just wanted to get all the money they could before closing the doors.
It would be more appropiate to ask:
Will you try to get a refund when a movie you liked has a way lower run time than what would be suggested?
You do realize that people that ask for charge backs over and over get flagged by banks. It is a stupid idea to ask for charge backs unless it was a lot of money. Talking about over $500 or more. If you keep doing it a lot of banks will close your accounts in the long run because they don't want that type of business. Better believe that credit card companies don't bat an eye at closing accounts of people that try and do charge backs all the time.
Charge backs are there for protection from fraud not purchase regret.
Imagine if you bought a new washing machine and then a few months later the person you bought it from came and took it back from you. That's stealing. Someone just stole your washing machine.
Here the problem with your analogy, you don't buy MMO's. You buy the right to access their server which can be terminated at any time. You are basically renting not buying. That is the difference. In reality you don't own anything in online video games unless you are a stock holder for that company. It isn't the same as buying a single player game that you install on your system.
And yeah it is there for fraud protection. They didn't steal anything. You agree to rent access when you basically click the check marks at the beginning of every game.
The point, though, is that the law doesn't protect them. You can put anything you want in a contract and get someone to sign it but if it isn't legally binding then it means nothing. It's the same as not having to pay for a meal at a restaurant if you thought it wasn't worth it or that you received poor service. You have every right not to pay.
In this situation, I'd consider it poor service and it falls under that jurisdiction.
Proving yet again it's difficult to come up with a good analogy in this situation, using hard goods doesn't work very well.
Think of MMOs as providing access to a service for a specific and limited time, not delivering a product, and you'll come closer when comparing.
A better example might be if Steam ever shut down and players could no longer access the games they puchased through it for some reason.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Depends on what country you live in as to whether or not a click agreement is enforceable. Many courts are actually ruling for the corporations as of late as long as their click agreement has the following.
A clearly presented clickwrap agreement represents the “best practice” mechanism for creating a contractual relationship between an online service and a user. Such a mechanism should:
1. conspicuously present the TOS to the user prior to any payment (or other commitment by the user) or installation of software (or other changes to a user’s machine or browser like cookies, plug-ins, etc.);
2. allow the user to easily read and navigate all of the terms (i.e. be in a normal, readable typeface with no scroll box);
3. provide an opportunity to print, and/or save a copy of, the terms;
4. offer the user the option to decline as prominently and by the same method as the option to agree; and
5. ensure the TOS is easy to locate online after the user agrees.
And as you have stated they didn't steal anything. I don't disagree with you that the idea of taking someones money and then closing down is morally wrong. I just disagree with the illegality of the situation. You yourself admit that they didn't steal anything, and actually delivered what they offered. They just stopped short of keeping it running as expected.
About the only actual legal loophole for getting money back from most MMO's would be that the TOS is shown after purchase of access to the game, or the use of scroll boxes in the TOS. That itself could be a way around it, just depends on a judges interpretation of the law to be honest.
As far as charge backs go though I wish people would stop telling everyone to do that because it has a real reason to exist, (major life purchases that didn't go through as ordered, actual theft, ect...), which many banks could stop offering due to overuse for trivial issues like MMO gaming. They do not have to offer this service in many countries, it is done as a courtesy for good standing customers.
None of those questions are relevant. Players have a contract with Gazillion, not Disney, so only Gazillion is responsible for refunds.
Assumption is Gazillion had a contract with Disney to use the IP for a specific and limited time. If the contract time peroid ran out and was not renewed Gazillion has no recourse.
Contracts also can have provisions for termination if one party violates a provision set forth in them. One of the more common is failure to pay for the item, it's possible Gazillion is broke and stopped "paying their rent" so to speak for the IP.
Again, Disney is not liable to notify Gazillion's customer's about such contact breaches, that entirely falls to Gazillion.
Refunds will be given based first on what the "law" requires, EU regulations are more favorable to consumers than here in the states, followed by what the TOS provides for.
However, if Gazillion doesn't have any money no one will be getting refunds regardless unless its through a bankrupcy liquidation.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Here's a thing people don't seem to understand, chargebacks are actually managed by the merchant selling the product, and not the financial institutions themselves.
So Gazillion has to agree to accept the chargeback, or challenge it. If they accept it, the funds are withdrawn from the Merchant's accounts, not the bank's.
If the merchant can't cover the bank may choose to do so, but it is entirely at their discretion.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon