I doubt they will win. It kind of is a bit of a free speech argument.
It has NOTHING to do with "free speech".
Why is it that some gamers have never attended a class that discussed this?
lol....too funny...actually it absolutely positively does depending on what he is being sued for.
is he being sued for cheating OR is he being sued for telling other people how to cheat? He is being sued (is he not) for telling other people how to cheat. That is ABSOLUTLY a free speech vs defamation lawsuit.
Freedom of speech is about being able to say criticize the government without having charges brought against you. Among a few other things that have to do with our support of various things or displeasure against various things.
no...its your ability to criticize ANYONE...not just the government.
However, there is defamation concerns as well as property concerns which is why this IS a free speech question. If they can proove a material impact on his speech they MIGHT have a case. but even then its hard because 'cheating' is not illegal
Actually you are correct in that you can criticize someone. You cannot "libel or slander" someone. and looking into it you can't break copyright rules/intellectual property is protected.
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I doubt they will win. It kind of is a bit of a free speech argument.
It has NOTHING to do with "free speech".
Why is it that some gamers have never attended a class that discussed this?
lol....too funny...actually it absolutely positively does depending on what he is being sued for.
is he being sued for cheating OR is he being sued for telling other people how to cheat? He is being sued (is he not) for telling other people how to cheat. That is ABSOLUTLY a free speech vs defamation lawsuit.
Freedom of speech is about being able to say criticize the government without having charges brought against you. Among a few other things that have to do with our support of various things or displeasure against various things.
no...its your ability to criticize ANYONE...not just the government.
However, there is defamation concerns as well as property concerns which is why this IS a free speech question. If they can proove a material impact on his speech they MIGHT have a case. but even then its hard because 'cheating' is not illegal
At last you understand why Epic had to sue the kid. If cheating is not illegal and posting on YouTube is freedom of speech, then all game devs and publishers are screwed. The kid's contention has to be challenged to enforce permitted use of copyrighted materials and to prevent copyrighted materials from being used without permission.
Copyright laws exist for a reason. The kid thinks he's got an original thought on this, but people have been misappropriating, stealing and plagiarizing the work of others for centuries. It's not new. Only the digital venue is new.
So if the 14 year old deleted his video and just made his own blog explaining how to cheat and hack, or even made a Text Video on YouTube without any of the games game-play then explaining how to cheat to everyone would be legal and Epic wouldn't have done anything?
I doubt they will win. It kind of is a bit of a free speech argument.
It has NOTHING to do with "free speech".
Why is it that some gamers have never attended a class that discussed this?
lol....too funny...actually it absolutely positively does depending on what he is being sued for.
is he being sued for cheating OR is he being sued for telling other people how to cheat? He is being sued (is he not) for telling other people how to cheat. That is ABSOLUTLY a free speech vs defamation lawsuit.
Freedom of speech is about being able to say criticize the government without having charges brought against you. Among a few other things that have to do with our support of various things or displeasure against various things.
Well if you want free speech on the internet, you just use a VPN, and keep making accounts / spreading information, in fact if I was going to post about cheating in an online game I would use a VPN and remain anonymous something the parents should have taught the 14 year old.
So the parents should have taught the 14 year old to use a VPN to cheat anonymously, instead of teaching him not to cheat to begin with? Unreal.
I doubt they will win. It kind of is a bit of a free speech argument.
It has NOTHING to do with "free speech".
Why is it that some gamers have never attended a class that discussed this?
lol....too funny...actually it absolutely positively does depending on what he is being sued for.
is he being sued for cheating OR is he being sued for telling other people how to cheat? He is being sued (is he not) for telling other people how to cheat. That is ABSOLUTLY a free speech vs defamation lawsuit.
Freedom of speech is about being able to say criticize the government without having charges brought against you. Among a few other things that have to do with our support of various things or displeasure against various things.
no...its your ability to criticize ANYONE...not just the government.
However, there is defamation concerns as well as property concerns which is why this IS a free speech question. If they can proove a material impact on his speech they MIGHT have a case. but even then its hard because 'cheating' is not illegal
Actually you are correct in that you can criticize someone. You cannot "libel or slander" someone. and looking into it you can't break copyright rules/intellectual property is protected.
yes I know which is where defamation comes in. However, those lawsuits rarely win and it has to be very serious and material (meaning a loss that can be measured like money).
So this is basically a question of Free Speech vs Defamation
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I doubt they will win. It kind of is a bit of a free speech argument.
It has NOTHING to do with "free speech".
Why is it that some gamers have never attended a class that discussed this?
lol....too funny...actually it absolutely positively does depending on what he is being sued for.
is he being sued for cheating OR is he being sued for telling other people how to cheat? He is being sued (is he not) for telling other people how to cheat. That is ABSOLUTLY a free speech vs defamation lawsuit.
Freedom of speech is about being able to say criticize the government without having charges brought against you. Among a few other things that have to do with our support of various things or displeasure against various things.
Well if you want free speech on the internet, you just use a VPN, and keep making accounts / spreading information, in fact if I was going to post about cheating in an online game I would use a VPN and remain anonymous something the parents should have taught the 14 year old.
So the parents should have taught the 14 year old to use a VPN to cheat anonymously, instead of teaching him not to cheat to begin with? Unreal.
I mean in general Anonymity should be taught these days to every young one IMO, obviously cheating should have been taught as wrong, and I hope both parties will come to an agreement and teach this Young One not to cheat online games anymore.
And I hate cheaters, But I think free speech and freedom to post what they want, let's just say I don't fully respect the DMCA claims when a site streams a PPV boxing match for example and they want to take legal actions because not everyone watching it paid for it .
Although the law is enforced with YouTube I am simply saying his parents should have done a better job teaching him both Anonymity and obviously not to use it for bad things so to speak.
I doubt they will win. It kind of is a bit of a free speech argument.
It has NOTHING to do with "free speech".
Why is it that some gamers have never attended a class that discussed this?
lol....too funny...actually it absolutely positively does depending on what he is being sued for.
is he being sued for cheating OR is he being sued for telling other people how to cheat? He is being sued (is he not) for telling other people how to cheat. That is ABSOLUTLY a free speech vs defamation lawsuit.
Freedom of speech is about being able to say criticize the government without having charges brought against you. Among a few other things that have to do with our support of various things or displeasure against various things.
no...its your ability to criticize ANYONE...not just the government.
However, there is defamation concerns as well as property concerns which is why this IS a free speech question. If they can proove a material impact on his speech they MIGHT have a case. but even then its hard because 'cheating' is not illegal
Actually you are correct in that you can criticize someone. You cannot "libel or slander" someone. and looking into it you can't break copyright rules/intellectual property is protected.
And that proves my point. Constitutional Free Speech is specifically about what you said, not being able to talk freely about everyone. That speech isn't protected and consequences for "free speech" aren't protected either. So now he's derailed the point off on some tangent that isn't true to make a point that isn't truly relevant to the discussion. As a package, the very few relevant comments, don't make it worth entertaining the rest of the BS. But if you've got the energy to take that on, more power to ya.
That all to say, I'm not backing out of the discussion with him, or people that pull crap like that, because I think he's got a point, but rather for all that stuff I just said.
That is incorrect.
Ask yourself this question, if this is not about what he told others why is him telling others coming up for conversation? So its a QUESTION about free speech.
You seem to forget that when a lawsuit is about to happen its in a QUESTION stage, not a resolution stage.
I can assure you this court case is going to be able Free Speech vs. Defamation. and its a trial so its a QUESTION as to who is right
AND HERE IS THE CONCERN: here is why this matters. Because the question is what IS and IS NOT cheating? who decides which is which? If I post ANYTHING online about that game am I going to get sued? no? ok then when would I get sued and when would I not get sued? is it possible that what I see as an exploit EA sees as a cheat and then I get sued?
I should not be terrified to share with others my gaming experience.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The video in question is not available at this time. The DCMA request was made because the video advertised cheats available for money. Commercial use, and personal use are different, and are covered under different laws.
Epic filed the lawsuit because the takedown was contested, and the only remaining method to prevent commercial use of their IP was via legal means. They filed the lawsuit using the name provided to them by YouTube (Google) and that was the extent of the information provided to them.
The rest of the information, the age, the mother, etc has all come out because the family (not Epic) made statements to the press about it.
The video in question is not available at this time. The DCMA request was made because the video advertised cheats available for money. Commercial use, and personal use are different, and are covered under different laws.
Epic filed the lawsuit because the takedown was contested, and the only remaining method to prevent commercial use of their IP was via legal means. They filed the lawsuit using the name provided to them by YouTube (Google) and that was the extent of the information provided to them.
The rest of the information, the age, the mother, etc has all come out because the family (not Epic) made statements to the press about it.
ah...yes....commerical use of another companies property is likely to get one into trouble. EA could very well win easy
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
You're not listening and that's a problem. You haven't done even the most cursory research and that's a problem too. You're basing your view off of how you want events to be interpreted, not how reality dictates.
What part of the only proper response under the law is to either drop it completely or file a lawsuit to pursue the DMCA didn't make sense? At that point they wouldn't know about mommies and juveniles because there is supposed to be a legal adult entity responsible behind that YouTube account.
I have two teenagers (16 and 14) who play online constantly and the older one play Fortnite BR. The difference is I'm not basing this off of my feelings and conjecture.
You keep talking out both sides of your mouth. First you say he should get a pass because "he's being a stupid kid" Then you backpeddle and say "Sure he should be held accountable, I agree with that so I wish people would stop implying that I am saying he should get a huggle and a stern warning, but its damn sad people nowadays think that means suing a 14 year old is the appropriate action.". And now you're back to "fuck this shit".
Just be honest and admit that you think there shouldn't be consequences for bad behavior if it's related to gaming, because that's the premise people are taking when defending this sort of stuff. So what is this position really about, you want to sock it to the big bad company? That's the popular thing right now, to look for bogeymen around every corner.
Firstly, I am listening and I am saying I don't agree, anyone with half a brain knows there's the "law" and then there's doing what is right, that rarely goes hand in hand. Epic could have taken a few other step before going right to suing. You are just being anal when you say they had no choice but to start off like this off the bat.
Secondly, I never ever said he should get a pass so don't accuse me of talking out both side of my mouth when I am not and your the one actually doing that by trying to put words into mine. The kid can be held responsible, being held responsible doesn't mean he needs to be sued.
Again don't put words into my mouth and claim I think bad behavior shouldn't have consequences, it should and the proper and appropriate action for cheating or hacking a game is perma banning the account, IP etc etc, not suing a 14 year old.
Pfff.
The "appropriate" response my mother would have done is beat me half dead, then she likely would have gone to the cheat company's location and beat some of them too.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not if they want to protect their IP and game. Then they are only left with one choice. Clearly you missed the point.
Then Epic's lawyers better get prepared cause they are going to be so busy suing all the people hacking their game! I mean they have no other choice if they want to protect their IP and game...nevermind going after the one actually making the hacks.
You're missing the point. It not that he was just cheating, if he was just cheating he would just get a ban. The problem is he cheated and choose upload what he was doing on Youtube. He was asked by Epic to take it down, which is fair, as it shows how to exploit them game.
Now this is the part that caused him to be sued. In reaction to that, he choose to counter their DMCA. Pretty much saying he has the right to show cheats and exploits in their game, so they are left with two choices, either let it slide, allowing other people to think they can do the same or sue. Read Forgrimm's last post.
Also
"YouTube requires account holders to be 18, but a 13-year-old can sign up with a parent's permission."
So either the person is 18 or the parent has taken responsibility for what the child does on the account. even if they are not actually there, it still fall on them for not monitoring the child's internet activities.
I doubt they will win. It kind of is a bit of a free speech argument. 'so I cant tell people how to expoit the game'? 'what about telling people how to win better?' is the line just at cheating that I cant speak? who decides what is and is not cheating? if I post something that I think is just harmless exploit you might see it as cheating and then I get sued?
I bet you think you have free speech on this forum too huh.
I doubt they will win. It kind of is a bit of a free speech argument.
It has NOTHING to do with "free speech".
Why is it that some gamers have never attended a class that discussed this?
lol....too funny...actually it absolutely positively does depending on what he is being sued for.
is he being sued for cheating OR is he being sued for telling other people how to cheat? He is being sued (is he not) for telling other people how to cheat. That is ABSOLUTLY a free speech vs defamation lawsuit.
Freedom of speech is about being able to say criticize the government without having charges brought against you. Among a few other things that have to do with our support of various things or displeasure against various things.
Well if you want free speech on the internet, you just use a VPN, and keep making accounts / spreading information, in fact if I was going to post about cheating in an online game I would use a VPN and remain anonymous something the parents should have taught the 14 year old.
I still don't get the whole fuss over a Video of all things, perhaps the user deserves to have their accounts punished, and the parents / 14 year old be informed of what DMCA really means though.
Coming from a well known cheater like you that's rich. God I hope you didn't spawn any kids.
I doubt they will win. It kind of is a bit of a free speech argument.
It has NOTHING to do with "free speech".
Why is it that some gamers have never attended a class that discussed this?
lol....too funny...actually it absolutely positively does depending on what he is being sued for.
is he being sued for cheating OR is he being sued for telling other people how to cheat? He is being sued (is he not) for telling other people how to cheat. That is ABSOLUTLY a free speech vs defamation lawsuit.
Freedom of speech is about being able to say criticize the government without having charges brought against you. Among a few other things that have to do with our support of various things or displeasure against various things.
THat, and ,you also have to factor in who's free speech this is........In this case, it's YouTube's free speech. It's not the account holder's. YouTube set up the forum, the platform and the means to distribute everything. YouTube owns the servers, the database, the bandwidth....It's their free speech platform. It belong's to them and they have the right to tell anyone who uses their free-speech what they want said or not.
If someone wants free speech, they need to buy their own website. They can post whatever they want there without worrying that YouTube will take it down.
Not if they want to protect their IP and game. Then they are only left with one choice. Clearly you missed the point.
Then Epic's lawyers better get prepared cause they are going to be so busy suing all the people hacking their game! I mean they have no other choice if they want to protect their IP and game...nevermind going after the one actually making the hacks.
You're missing the point. It not that he was just cheating, if he was just cheating he would just get a ban. The problem is he cheated and choose upload what he was doing on Youtube. He was asked by Epic to take it down, which is fair, as it shows how to exploit them game.
Now this is the part that caused him to be sued. In reaction to that, he choose to counter their DMCA. Pretty much saying he has the right to show cheats and exploits in their game, so they are left with two choices, either let it slide, allowing other people to think they can do the same or sue. Read Forgrimm's last post.
Also
"YouTube requires account holders to be 18, but a 13-year-old can sign up with a parent's permission."
So either the person is 18 or the parent has taken responsibility for what the child does on the account. even if they are not actually there, it still fall on them for not monitoring the child's internet activities.
I doubt they will win. It kind of is a bit of a free speech argument. 'so I cant tell people how to expoit the game'? 'what about telling people how to win better?' is the line just at cheating that I cant speak? who decides what is and is not cheating? if I post something that I think is just harmless exploit you might see it as cheating and then I get sued?
I bet you think you have free speech on this forum too huh.
I dont know if I do or WHICH IS THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am not making an argument on the OUTCOME of the trial I am saying the trial itself will be a QUESTION of Free Speech vs Defamation.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The video in question is not available at this time. The DCMA request was made because the video advertised cheats available for money. Commercial use, and personal use are different, and are covered under different laws.
Epic filed the lawsuit because the takedown was contested, and the only remaining method to prevent commercial use of their IP was via legal means. They filed the lawsuit using the name provided to them by YouTube (Google) and that was the extent of the information provided to them.
The rest of the information, the age, the mother, etc has all come out because the family (not Epic) made statements to the press about it.
ah...yes....commerical use of another companies property is likely to get one into trouble. EA could very well win easy
hold on a second..
are we saying that this would be a lawsuit they could win because they are doing everything that every single solitary Lets Play ever made is doing?
are we obfuscating 'charging income' to mean Youtube viewer add payments? Why?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
If I am wrong, so be it, I'm wrong. But my assumption from the beginning of this thread was that if there was any legitimate CR Infringement going on, YT wouldn't hesitate to pull the content and the fact that they didn't means that the claim of CR Infringement was bogus. Which puts me back to my initial stance. Companies who can afford attorneys dictating the rights of people who can't is not good.
I don't care if the content is ridiculous, that just highlights the character of the person who posts it. People love to make fools of themselves on the Internet. Let them. If some company doesn't want to be dragged down with that, then they need to get their shit together, not hire attorneys to protect their right to be stupid anonymously.
The video in question is not available at this time. The DCMA request was made because the video advertised cheats available for money. Commercial use, and personal use are different, and are covered under different laws.
Epic filed the lawsuit because the takedown was contested, and the only remaining method to prevent commercial use of their IP was via legal means. They filed the lawsuit using the name provided to them by YouTube (Google) and that was the extent of the information provided to them.
The rest of the information, the age, the mother, etc has all come out because the family (not Epic) made statements to the press about it.
ah...yes....commerical use of another companies property is likely to get one into trouble. EA could very well win easy
hold on a second..
are we saying that this would be a lawsuit they could win because they are doing everything that every single solitary Lets Play ever made is doing?
are we obfuscating 'charging income' to mean Youtube viewer add payments? Why?
I must be watching different lets play videos than you. I am not seeing videos that tell you where to purchase cheats, and show you how they work. It is not the commercialization on YouTube that is the issue, it is the selling of the cheats promoted in the video.
1. Epic games should be filing lawsuits against the developers of the aimbot and whoever is hosting the website selling it, not random users.
2. How can you claim a profit loss in court on a game you are advertising as "free-to-play"
That said, Epic Games should have banned the cheaters and moved on. It's unlikely they will gain anything in court by suing users for posting unfavorable videos of gameplay. It's would be more effective spending resources fixing the damned issued instead of trying to bury them.
But they have banned them. One guy 9 times. Just keeps making accounts. So what's your solution now?
Don't make F2P games where the cost of a ban is simply generating a new account?
In all seriousness, I agree with your sentiment. I just have to balance that with the idea that it's a video game, not insurance fraud. Like you, I certainly agree that escalated steps need to be taken. I always prefer to see such things handled outside a courtroom, though.
Epic is full of shit apparently in their "we had to sue claim"
"There's more, though. Epic has claimed that after Caleb Rogers filed his put-back notice on Youtube, they were obliged to sue him, or they'd lose the right to sue other people who did the same thing. This is wrong. There is the concept of "genericization" that's part of trademark law, under which someone who consistently fails to enforce their trademarks against competitors can eventually lose their mark. But Epic is suing Caleb Rogers for copyright infringement, which has no such doctrine."
The video in question is not available at this time. The DCMA request was made because the video advertised cheats available for money. Commercial use, and personal use are different, and are covered under different laws.
Epic filed the lawsuit because the takedown was contested, and the only remaining method to prevent commercial use of their IP was via legal means. They filed the lawsuit using the name provided to them by YouTube (Google) and that was the extent of the information provided to them.
The rest of the information, the age, the mother, etc has all come out because the family (not Epic) made statements to the press about it.
ah...yes....commerical use of another companies property is likely to get one into trouble. EA could very well win easy
hold on a second..
are we saying that this would be a lawsuit they could win because they are doing everything that every single solitary Lets Play ever made is doing?
are we obfuscating 'charging income' to mean Youtube viewer add payments? Why?
I must be watching different lets play videos than you. I am not seeing videos that tell you where to purchase cheats, and show you how they work. It is not the commercialization on YouTube that is the issue, it is the selling of the cheats promoted in the video.
What one was tricking me into is this:
Because a youtuber makes money on his video via add payments by Youtube is why EA can successfully sue this kid because the video is about the IP.
ALL lets play use the IP to make money from the video. at least I think that is the case, I always assume posters are trying to obfuscate.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
So this is basically a question of Free Speech vs Defamation
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
And I hate cheaters, But I think free speech and freedom to post what they want, let's just say I don't fully respect the DMCA claims when a site streams a PPV boxing match for example and they want to take legal actions because not everyone watching it paid for it .
Although the law is enforced with YouTube I am simply saying his parents should have done a better job teaching him both Anonymity and obviously not to use it for bad things so to speak.
Ask yourself this question, if this is not about what he told others why is him telling others coming up for conversation? So its a QUESTION about free speech.
You seem to forget that when a lawsuit is about to happen its in a QUESTION stage, not a resolution stage.
I can assure you this court case is going to be able Free Speech vs. Defamation. and its a trial so its a QUESTION as to who is right
AND HERE IS THE CONCERN:
here is why this matters. Because the question is what IS and IS NOT cheating? who decides which is which? If I post ANYTHING online about that game am I going to get sued? no? ok then when would I get sued and when would I not get sued? is it possible that what I see as an exploit EA sees as a cheat and then I get sued?
I should not be terrified to share with others my gaming experience.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Epic filed the lawsuit because the takedown was contested, and the only remaining method to prevent commercial use of their IP was via legal means. They filed the lawsuit using the name provided to them by YouTube (Google) and that was the extent of the information provided to them.
The rest of the information, the age, the mother, etc has all come out because the family (not Epic) made statements to the press about it.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If someone wants free speech, they need to buy their own website. They can post whatever they want there without worrying that YouTube will take it down.
Doesn't mean someone else's attorney won't try.
I am not making an argument on the OUTCOME of the trial I am saying the trial itself will be a QUESTION of Free Speech vs Defamation.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
are we saying that this would be a lawsuit they could win because they are doing everything that every single solitary Lets Play ever made is doing?
are we obfuscating 'charging income' to mean Youtube viewer add payments? Why?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I don't care if the content is ridiculous, that just highlights the character of the person who posts it. People love to make fools of themselves on the Internet. Let them. If some company doesn't want to be dragged down with that, then they need to get their shit together, not hire attorneys to protect their right to be stupid anonymously.
In all seriousness, I agree with your sentiment. I just have to balance that with the idea that it's a video game, not insurance fraud. Like you, I certainly agree that escalated steps need to be taken. I always prefer to see such things handled outside a courtroom, though.
Because a youtuber makes money on his video via add payments by Youtube is why EA can successfully sue this kid because the video is about the IP.
ALL lets play use the IP to make money from the video.
at least I think that is the case, I always assume posters are trying to obfuscate.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me