That logic is also the root cause of victim blaming in things like rape "she was at a party drinking, what did she expect???" comes to mind.
It's a way to face only the reality you see from your perspective.
And no law in the US is going to automatically lay blame on parents for their kid getting kidnapped. The fact that you assert, in any general way, that parents would be responsible for such a thing is crazy.
Ok, so you address the extreme and ignore the fact that parents ARE in fact responsible for their childs actions. It's law. Use google and stuff. Oh, and YES! If you haven't taught your kids not to take candy from strangers, then it IS your fault. There are plenty of good reasons that this education happens at home AND in school, and it's for safety. So why do you feel this is any different? Why is this not an education issue.
First off, your example is wholly irrelevant because that entire situation is silly. Kidnappers aren't hanging outta vans offering kids candy to jump in.
Kidnappers are much more intelligent than that, which is why kids become kidnapped DESPITE being told not to trust strangers. You're ignoring that to use the extreme to try and prove your own point, but you're just wrong about it, period.
The parents are not responsible for their kid being kidnapped, because the kidnapper is a predator who is consciously attempting to outwit or overpower a disadvantaged party who isn't aware of the techniques the predator uses. Sound familiar?
Do you think most consumers study the relevant psychology? Marketing consultants certainly study it. Do you think they (the consumers) study marketing and the tricks used to influence their buying decisions? If not, do you think it's effective for parents to attempt to coach their children on how to avoid marketing ploys? Do you think yourself immune because this specific instance of marketing psychology isn't as effective on you? Careful now, you should be prepared to back that statement up if you attempt to assert you are (HINT: nobody is immune, we just don't all fall for the same product marketing).
Ok, let's drop the kidnapper thing. I understand it was silly, and it was intended that way. Now you seem to just me using it as a strawman because you refuse to answer the simple question of whether you believe that the parents are a large part of the problem in this case.
Don't get me wrong, if the kid spent $100 or even $200 on MTs and the parent didn't pick up on it, sure, I guess that could go unnoticed, but when it becomes habitual to the point of $20k, that's negligent.
Am I immune to marketing ploys? Nope! Not at all! Because I've bought more than my fair share of infomercial products which turned out to be shit, do I think that the infomercials should be held responsible? No! When I buy my next informercial product, and it WILL happen, and it turns out to be shit, is that their fault? Nope!
Similarly, if we're talking about a casino, are they predatory because they know that there are problem gamblers and they are taking their money? No. Sorry! Even this guy tells of how he doesn't blame the companies. He's admitting that it's an issue of his own. However, again, he admits to being pre-dispositioned to gambling, so how would regulation help him? You can google trading card addiction and find similar stories. It's sad, but regulation still isn't the answer. I hope that the community outcry has at least sent a message that bat-shit-crazy progression mechanics aren't acceptable, but as far as loot crates go, I don't see them going anywhere.
" See What Happens when Mommy and Daddy own a Basement "
Yup and never go down there to see what their kids are doing. They just want peace and quiet. Its the same thing like what they did to us old guys by putting us in front of the tv and walking away. But today is online gaming and parents need to be smarter.
That logic is also the root cause of victim blaming in things like rape "she was at a party drinking, what did she expect???" comes to mind.
It's a way to face only the reality you see from your perspective.
And no law in the US is going to automatically lay blame on parents for their kid getting kidnapped. The fact that you assert, in any general way, that parents would be responsible for such a thing is crazy.
Ok, so you address the extreme and ignore the fact that parents ARE in fact responsible for their childs actions. It's law. Use google and stuff. Oh, and YES! If you haven't taught your kids not to take candy from strangers, then it IS your fault. There are plenty of good reasons that this education happens at home AND in school, and it's for safety. So why do you feel this is any different? Why is this not an education issue.
First off, your example is wholly irrelevant because that entire situation is silly. Kidnappers aren't hanging outta vans offering kids candy to jump in.
Kidnappers are much more intelligent than that, which is why kids become kidnapped DESPITE being told not to trust strangers. You're ignoring that to use the extreme to try and prove your own point, but you're just wrong about it, period.
The parents are not responsible for their kid being kidnapped, because the kidnapper is a predator who is consciously attempting to outwit or overpower a disadvantaged party who isn't aware of the techniques the predator uses. Sound familiar?
Do you think most consumers study the relevant psychology? Marketing consultants certainly study it. Do you think they (the consumers) study marketing and the tricks used to influence their buying decisions? If not, do you think it's effective for parents to attempt to coach their children on how to avoid marketing ploys? Do you think yourself immune because this specific instance of marketing psychology isn't as effective on you? Careful now, you should be prepared to back that statement up if you attempt to assert you are (HINT: nobody is immune, we just don't all fall for the same product marketing).
Ok, let's drop the kidnapper thing. I understand it was silly, and it was intended that way. Now you seem to just me using it as a strawman because you refuse to answer the simple question of whether you believe that the parents are a large part of the problem in this case.
Don't get me wrong, if the kid spent $100 or even $200 on MTs and the parent didn't pick up on it, sure, I guess that could go unnoticed, but when it becomes habitual to the point of $20k, that's negligent.
Am I immune to marketing ploys? Nope! Not at all! Because I've bought more than my fair share of infomercial products which turned out to be shit, do I think that the infomercials should be held responsible? No! When I buy my next informercial product, and it WILL happen, and it turns out to be shit, is that their fault? Nope!
Similarly, if we're talking about a casino, are they predatory because they know that there are problem gamblers and they are taking their money? No. Sorry! Even this guy tells of how he doesn't blame the companies. He's admitting that it's an issue of his own. However, again, he admits to being pre-dispositioned to gambling, so how would regulation help him? You can google trading card addiction and find similar stories. It's sad, but regulation still isn't the answer. I hope that the community outcry has at least sent a message that bat-shit-crazy progression mechanics aren't acceptable, but as far as loot crates go, I don't see them going anywhere.
I don't think loot crates are going anywhere either, I'm a realist (cynic). Do I feel they're predatory? Of course they're predatory. It's a completely blind roll for a chance to win the temporary ownership of items that have zero real value and can be taken from you at any time for any reason. It's worse than putting your money in a slot machine, because you can actually take your winnings from the slot machine home with you.
And we don't base regulations on ideal outcomes for consumers and producers because no resolution is needed between the two parties at that time, but on those instances where the less than ideal unfairly prejudices one party or the other.
The prefrontal cortex is the part of the brain that basically tells you "it may sound like a good idea now, but it actually isn't". This part of the brain can take up to 25 years to fully develop and it is one of the reasons why teenagers embark into reckless activities that should be obviously avoided by any adult.
Some people here have been bring up IQ scores and parents culpability as the cause for this, and while it is not completely wrong, ignoring the fact that kids should be treated differently isn't going to solve anything. You can't expect to have gambling, alcohol or drugs handed freely to under-age kids because they cause addiction even in adults, whose prefrontal cortex is fully developed.
We make the mistake of thinking that the brain is just a tool we use to take decisions but in truth the brain is all we are. Every though comes from a chemical reaction in it. If teenagers don't have the tools to deal with "gambling" as adults have, you can't blame them.
If a friend of yours started suffering from epileptic seizures and the authorities would take away his driving licence, the normal reaction of a human being is to think "It's right, he should not be allowed to drive because he might be a danger to others, but I am sorry for him", You don't feel satisfaction if he lost his licence because of a problem inside his brain.
On the surface it sounds shocking , but if evenly distributed across 6 years (probably was higher the past few as more disposable income was available) its roughly $180 per month.
Steep perhaps but I'll bet some folks here have spent that sort of caah, if not on gaming some other entertainment activity.
As I have paid for multiple accounts over the years it was not unusual to have $75 to $100 a month in active subs, plus the cost of initial box purchases, expansions and buying and maintaining 3 gaming capable PCs so all could play.
Heck, even now my media subs for cable TV, Netflix, XM radio (car and internet), and Slacker radio run me roughly $215 per month, not including On Demand fees and going out to the movies which adds easily $75 to $100 per month.
So yes, $13K is a lot for gaming MTs but my guess is some reading this would say I spend a foolish amount of money on monthly media.
But hey, much of that is to keep my wife entertained and happy so I can game in peace, money well spent in my book.
Alas I can't get her into gaming, probably be cheaper.
I presume that you missed the point where the article talks about him being 19 years of age which means that 6 years back he was 13.
And i'll go on a limb here and say that you are much older than 19. With everything that implies in terms of occupational and financial status.
Unless you started paying for all the expenses you listed when you where still a teenager.
Well yes, but at 13 I never had access to that kind of money, but apparently some posters here did.
I assume he didn't steal to support his "habit" so he must have received it from his parents, trust fund or selling drugs or something.
He may have buyers regrets today, but in the end as others have said, just another example of people spending money on stupid stuff.
I easily spent $500 or so on Pokemon cards for my daughters.
The packs were early RNG in a big way which I eventually got tired of and just bought most of their missing cards on the internet, turned out to save me money in the long run.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
On the surface it sounds shocking , but if evenly distributed across 6 years (probably was higher the past few as more disposable income was available) its roughly $180 per month.
Steep perhaps but I'll bet some folks here have spent that sort of caah, if not on gaming some other entertainment activity.
As I have paid for multiple accounts over the years it was not unusual to have $75 to $100 a month in active subs, plus the cost of initial box purchases, expansions and buying and maintaining 3 gaming capable PCs so all could play.
Heck, even now my media subs for cable TV, Netflix, XM radio (car and internet), and Slacker radio run me roughly $215 per month, not including On Demand fees and going out to the movies which adds easily $75 to $100 per month.
So yes, $13K is a lot for gaming MTs but my guess is some reading this would say I spend a foolish amount of money on monthly media.
But hey, much of that is to keep my wife entertained and happy so I can game in peace, money well spent in my book.
Alas I can't get her into gaming, probably be cheaper.
I presume that you missed the point where the article talks about him being 19 years of age which means that 6 years back he was 13.
And i'll go on a limb here and say that you are much older than 19. With everything that implies in terms of occupational and financial status.
Unless you started paying for all the expenses you listed when you where still a teenager.
Well yes, but at 13 I never had access to that kind of money, but apparently some posters here did.
I assume he didn't steal to support his "habit" so he must have received it from his parents, trust fund or selling drugs or something.
He may have buyers regrets today, but in the end as others have said, just another example of people spending money on stupid stuff.
I easily spent $500 or so on Pokemon cards for my daughters.
The packs were early RNG in a big way which I eventually got tired of and just bought most of their missing cards on the internet, turned out to save me money in the long run.
Yeah, it was stupid.
paid money for RNG!
Yeah I forgot about my baseball card days. totally more gambling in a legal sense then any lootbox
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Thank god little Johnny isn't buying booze and drugs, those things are addictive.
Oh.... wait a second.
I recall one of my daughter's friends (both were 14 then) was helping clean out her grandmas house after her death and she found a box with $14K in it.
She chose to not tell her parents and my daughter claims most of it was spent in te next two years on drugs and clothes.
Her parents apparently never caught on despite the increasing amounts of new merchandise and aberrant behavior.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That logic is also the root cause of victim blaming in things like rape "she was at a party drinking, what did she expect???" comes to mind.
It's a way to face only the reality you see from your perspective.
And no law in the US is going to automatically lay blame on parents for their kid getting kidnapped. The fact that you assert, in any general way, that parents would be responsible for such a thing is crazy.
Ok, so you address the extreme and ignore the fact that parents ARE in fact responsible for their childs actions. It's law. Use google and stuff. Oh, and YES! If you haven't taught your kids not to take candy from strangers, then it IS your fault. There are plenty of good reasons that this education happens at home AND in school, and it's for safety. So why do you feel this is any different? Why is this not an education issue.
First off, your example is wholly irrelevant because that entire situation is silly. Kidnappers aren't hanging outta vans offering kids candy to jump in.
Kidnappers are much more intelligent than that, which is why kids become kidnapped DESPITE being told not to trust strangers. You're ignoring that to use the extreme to try and prove your own point, but you're just wrong about it, period.
The parents are not responsible for their kid being kidnapped, because the kidnapper is a predator who is consciously attempting to outwit or overpower a disadvantaged party who isn't aware of the techniques the predator uses. Sound familiar?
Do you think most consumers study the relevant psychology? Marketing consultants certainly study it. Do you think they (the consumers) study marketing and the tricks used to influence their buying decisions? If not, do you think it's effective for parents to attempt to coach their children on how to avoid marketing ploys? Do you think yourself immune because this specific instance of marketing psychology isn't as effective on you? Careful now, you should be prepared to back that statement up if you attempt to assert you are (HINT: nobody is immune, we just don't all fall for the same product marketing).
Ok, let's drop the kidnapper thing. I understand it was silly, and it was intended that way. Now you seem to just me using it as a strawman because you refuse to answer the simple question of whether you believe that the parents are a large part of the problem in this case.
Don't get me wrong, if the kid spent $100 or even $200 on MTs and the parent didn't pick up on it, sure, I guess that could go unnoticed, but when it becomes habitual to the point of $20k, that's negligent.
Am I immune to marketing ploys? Nope! Not at all! Because I've bought more than my fair share of infomercial products which turned out to be shit, do I think that the infomercials should be held responsible? No! When I buy my next informercial product, and it WILL happen, and it turns out to be shit, is that their fault? Nope!
Similarly, if we're talking about a casino, are they predatory because they know that there are problem gamblers and they are taking their money? No. Sorry! Even this guy tells of how he doesn't blame the companies. He's admitting that it's an issue of his own. However, again, he admits to being pre-dispositioned to gambling, so how would regulation help him? You can google trading card addiction and find similar stories. It's sad, but regulation still isn't the answer. I hope that the community outcry has at least sent a message that bat-shit-crazy progression mechanics aren't acceptable, but as far as loot crates go, I don't see them going anywhere.
You can argue it till the cows come home.
IMHO lack of parental guidance does not give companies license to financially exploit children with gambling style monetization.
If minors are caught in a pub/bar, the establishment is fined, they are held responsible not the parents. The fine is $500 per offence where I live.
Same should be true for the gaming companies. They want these gambling style monetization models, then keep the kids out or pay the fucking fine.
Yes, when children commit offences like vandalism, parents are held financially responsible and rightly so.
On the surface it sounds shocking , but if evenly distributed across 6 years (probably was higher the past few as more disposable income was available) its roughly $180 per month.
Steep perhaps but I'll bet some folks here have spent that sort of caah, if not on gaming some other entertainment activity.
As I have paid for multiple accounts over the years it was not unusual to have $75 to $100 a month in active subs, plus the cost of initial box purchases, expansions and buying and maintaining 3 gaming capable PCs so all could play.
Heck, even now my media subs for cable TV, Netflix, XM radio (car and internet), and Slacker radio run me roughly $215 per month, not including On Demand fees and going out to the movies which adds easily $75 to $100 per month.
So yes, $13K is a lot for gaming MTs but my guess is some reading this would say I spend a foolish amount of money on monthly media.
But hey, much of that is to keep my wife entertained and happy so I can game in peace, money well spent in my book.
Alas I can't get her into gaming, probably be cheaper.
I presume that you missed the point where the article talks about him being 19 years of age which means that 6 years back he was 13.
And i'll go on a limb here and say that you are much older than 19. With everything that implies in terms of occupational and financial status.
Unless you started paying for all the expenses you listed when you where still a teenager.
Well yes, but at 13 I never had access to that kind of money, but apparently some posters here did.
I assume he didn't steal to support his "habit" so he must have received it from his parents, trust fund or selling drugs or something.
He may have buyers regrets today, but in the end as others have said, just another example of people spending money on stupid stuff.
I easily spent $500 or so on Pokemon cards for my daughters.
The packs were early RNG in a big way which I eventually got tired of and just bought most of their missing cards on the internet, turned out to save me money in the long run.
Yeah, it was stupid.
Fortunately, the manufacturer can't email you one day to let you know they're discontinuing the card set in 30 days and you must send all the cards you purchased back.
" See What Happens when Mommy and Daddy own a Basement "
Yup and never go down there to see what their kids are doing. They just want peace and quiet. Its the same thing like what they did to us old guys by putting us in front of the tv and walking away. But today is online gaming and parents need to be smarter.
In some cases its just being to slow to realize how quickly children can grow up and face "adult" problems at a much earlier age than they might have.
Its hard to accept "your baby' is capable of doing such things.
The eldest is usually the one who fools you the most.
We didn't catch my eldest at activities which got us doing routine shakedowns her room and belongings until she was 14.5.
Our searches found diaries and notes detailing negative activites back to when she was 13.
By the third child we were well seasoned and whole house searches were regular activities, even when they were only 8.
No computers were ever permitted in their rooms, I regularly searched them for evidence of cyberstalkers, and I did take great pains to educate them on the dangers and unacceptable behaviors in the world.
Setting homeless people on fire is bad, seems obvious but apparently some parents here in Florida skipped that one. I didn't .
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
One thing that has bothered me my entire life starting at around the age of 15 is adults using 'the kids!' as a reason to push their moral agenda on others.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Well I never use/buy loot boxes. I also care little fro games that lean towards making them the way to progress without massive grinding. What I think loot boxes say to me is they don't expect a large population to stay so they do these loot boxes to appeal to those who, depending on the game, see them as either a way to progress very quickly or just want the shiny they are offering. Just think the devs must not think their game has a staying power or are just plain greedy.
Well yes, but at 13 I never had access to that kind of money, but apparently some posters here did.
So no one's parents made them get a job?
I had an allowance which was based on actual hard work (cleaning my room and setting the table and doing the dishes was not work) and then I had a job. And there was a time when I had two jobs.
huh ... maybe what little parenting I got wasn't so bad after all!
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This is why electronic devices have warning labels on them, BECAUSE people are stupid enough to dry their hair in the shower.
Or use a disposable toilet brush for oral hygiene. At some point you do have the lay the blame on the person who does this, not the company. Addiction or not .. take responsibility for your actions.
Well yes, but at 13 I never had access to that kind of money, but apparently some posters here did.
So no one's parents made them get a job?
I had an allowance which was based on actual hard work (cleaning my room and setting the table and doing the dishes was not work) and then I had a job. And there was a time when I had two jobs.
huh ... maybe what little parenting I got wasn't so bad after all!
Jobs at 14 were rare, PA had laws limiting those under 16 to 10 hrs or less, all before 6 PM.
I did earn money as a golf caddy, ($10 per bag), sweeping floors at UPS, newspaper route from 11 to 14, and lawn work $5 per yard.
Didnt go very far even when I turned 16 and got a restaurant job for 15 to 20 hrs a week at $1.45 / hr. Taxes.....
So yeah, I always worked, so have all my children, but never was floating in cash back then.
Terrific inventive to go to and finish college however, factory work I did during summers sucked.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Oh look, another irresponsible person who has an "addiction." This smacks of the same idea as people who sleep around and them claim they have a sex "addiction." You have to make choices about what you do; there isn't some evil entity that "forces" you to swipe your credit card or drop your pants. As DMKano said above, regardless of what your so-called "addiction" is, in the end, it is the person who is the problem, and ultimately responsible for their own behavior. Our society loves to let people make excuses for themselves though, I suppose accountability is no longer cool.
Both things do sounds like mental issues to me. There certainly is physical addictions that do exist (try hiding all the coffee at work on monday morning if you don't believe me) but here it is more about doing stupid things and not taking responisibility for your own actions.
I think we all hear that little voice telling us to do stupid things now and again but most of us ignores it.
BTW: I read that scientists have figured out that giving peoples brains electric impulses might get them to like Justin Biebers music (seriously), think what EA would do if they get access to tech like that. ;D
It's funny how it's the same people who believe having loot boxes in your games is a first amendment right calling this guy a troll and a dim-wit.
Narius seems to be the only honest guy around here because he freely admits that he wants lots of MTX in games so that he can be subsidized and play them for free. The rest of you need to get your story straight lol.
Most of the people who had a negative comment provided nothing as to why they came to that conclusion. My conclusion...I ignore those people.
Sounds like a BS story to me as well...
Honestly the only way to solve the "issue" is to have an IQ test before a purchase, so that people who can't think for themselves can't finish the transaction.
I've been wanting mandatory IQ tests before creating
an MMO account for years...
As to the topic, ehh, it's his money (hopefully), but if this gets a few 'save
the children' politicians to pay attention and threaten to (or actually) regulate
this s**t to the point where loot boxes (and other predatory 'micro‘-transactions)
aren't just a regular part of games, all the better.
Just as alcoholism is a property of the alcoholic rather than the alcohol, control issues related to the purchase of microtransactions are that of the buyer, not the transaction.
The solution is for those facing this difficulty to take personal responsibility for themselves and their actions and to work on developing their self-control to resolve it.
Just as alcoholism is a property of the alcoholic rather than the alcohol, control issues related to the purchase of microtransactions are that of the buyer, not the transaction.
The solution is for those facing this difficulty to take personal responsibility for themselves and their actions and to work on developing their self-control to resolve it.
Yet alcohol is regulated and restricted from sale to minors...
To be a real comparison: Imagine if alcohol was completely unregulated and could be included in any drink without it being labeled. You would have to go and research every drink you bought to see if it contained alcohol.
You want people to make informed decisions then give them the info they need to do so. Label every box and website showing that the game contains micro-transactions (and if it applies... gambling loot boxes). Then limit the sale to adults (if it contains gambling look boxes). At that point yeah... it's all on the individual.
As it exists now... companies do everything possible to obfuscate and hide the monetization schemes. God help them if they ever had to list the actual odds of "winning" the item you wanted from your loot box. Or the cost of unlocking all content ($2100 for SWBF2)
Again, I am all for people taking responsibility, so lets all agree that we should make it as easy as possible to give people the information they need to make an informed decision. Sounds like a win/win to me.
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Sounds like a BS story to me as well...
Honestly the only way to solve the "issue" is to have an IQ test before a purchase, so that people who can't think for themselves can't finish the transaction.
That basically excludes about 80% of the world's population.
Sounds like a BS story to me as well...
Honestly the only way to solve the "issue" is to have an IQ test before a purchase, so that people who can't think for themselves can't finish the transaction.
That basically excludes about 80% of the world's population.
That logic is also the root cause of victim blaming in things like rape "she was at a party drinking, what did she expect???" comes to mind.
It's a way to face only the reality you see from your perspective.
And no law in the US is going to automatically lay blame on parents for their kid getting kidnapped. The fact that you assert, in any general way, that parents would be responsible for such a thing is crazy.
Ok, so you address the extreme and ignore the fact that parents ARE in fact responsible for their childs actions. It's law. Use google and stuff. Oh, and YES! If you haven't taught your kids not to take candy from strangers, then it IS your fault. There are plenty of good reasons that this education happens at home AND in school, and it's for safety. So why do you feel this is any different? Why is this not an education issue.
First off, your example is wholly irrelevant because that entire situation is silly. Kidnappers aren't hanging outta vans offering kids candy to jump in.
Kidnappers are much more intelligent than that, which is why kids become kidnapped DESPITE being told not to trust strangers. You're ignoring that to use the extreme to try and prove your own point, but you're just wrong about it, period.
The parents are not responsible for their kid being kidnapped, because the kidnapper is a predator who is consciously attempting to outwit or overpower a disadvantaged party who isn't aware of the techniques the predator uses. Sound familiar?
Do you think most consumers study the relevant psychology? Marketing consultants certainly study it. Do you think they (the consumers) study marketing and the tricks used to influence their buying decisions? If not, do you think it's effective for parents to attempt to coach their children on how to avoid marketing ploys? Do you think yourself immune because this specific instance of marketing psychology isn't as effective on you? Careful now, you should be prepared to back that statement up if you attempt to assert you are (HINT: nobody is immune, we just don't all fall for the same product marketing).
Ok, let's drop the kidnapper thing. I understand it was silly, and it was intended that way. Now you seem to just me using it as a strawman because you refuse to answer the simple question of whether you believe that the parents are a large part of the problem in this case.
Don't get me wrong, if the kid spent $100 or even $200 on MTs and the parent didn't pick up on it, sure, I guess that could go unnoticed, but when it becomes habitual to the point of $20k, that's negligent.
Am I immune to marketing ploys? Nope! Not at all! Because I've bought more than my fair share of infomercial products which turned out to be shit, do I think that the infomercials should be held responsible? No! When I buy my next informercial product, and it WILL happen, and it turns out to be shit, is that their fault? Nope!
Similarly, if we're talking about a casino, are they predatory because they know that there are problem gamblers and they are taking their money? No. Sorry! Even this guy tells of how he doesn't blame the companies. He's admitting that it's an issue of his own. However, again, he admits to being pre-dispositioned to gambling, so how would regulation help him? You can google trading card addiction and find similar stories. It's sad, but regulation still isn't the answer. I hope that the community outcry has at least sent a message that bat-shit-crazy progression mechanics aren't acceptable, but as far as loot crates go, I don't see them going anywhere.
You can argue it till the cows come home.
IMHO lack of parental guidance does not give companies license to financially exploit children with gambling style monetization.
If minors are caught in a pub/bar, the establishment is fined, they are held responsible not the parents. The fine is $500 per offence where I live.
Same should be true for the gaming companies. They want these gambling style monetization models, then keep the kids out or pay the fucking fine.
Yes, when children commit offences like vandalism, parents are held financially responsible and rightly so.
Not the same thing.
You can argue till the cows come home too, but you can't convince me it's gambling. I guess we're at an impasse. I will ask you this, though, has regulation stopped drinking, smoking, and drugs with teens? Nope! So I don't know what your expectation is here. What's worse is that there is no way that a publisher can knowingly sell to a minor, since they can't tell who is on the other side of the screen. There are parental controls in place for this sort of thing. If the parents don't use them, then where is the liability?
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Crazkanuk
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And we don't base regulations on ideal outcomes for consumers and producers because no resolution is needed between the two parties at that time, but on those instances where the less than ideal unfairly prejudices one party or the other.
Some people here have been bring up IQ scores and parents culpability as the cause for this, and while it is not completely wrong, ignoring the fact that kids should be treated differently isn't going to solve anything. You can't expect to have gambling, alcohol or drugs handed freely to under-age kids because they cause addiction even in adults, whose prefrontal cortex is fully developed.
We make the mistake of thinking that the brain is just a tool we use to take decisions but in truth the brain is all we are. Every though comes from a chemical reaction in it. If teenagers don't have the tools to deal with "gambling" as adults have, you can't blame them.
If a friend of yours started suffering from epileptic seizures and the authorities would take away his driving licence, the normal reaction of a human being is to think "It's right, he should not be allowed to drive because he might be a danger to others, but I am sorry for him", You don't feel satisfaction if he lost his licence because of a problem inside his brain.
I assume he didn't steal to support his "habit" so he must have received it from his parents, trust fund or selling drugs or something.
He may have buyers regrets today, but in the end as others have said, just another example of people spending money on stupid stuff.
I easily spent $500 or so on Pokemon cards for my daughters.
The packs were early RNG in a big way which I eventually got tired of and just bought most of their missing cards on the internet, turned out to save me money in the long run.
Yeah, it was stupid.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah I forgot about my baseball card days. totally more gambling in a legal sense then any lootbox
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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She chose to not tell her parents and my daughter claims most of it was spent in te next two years on drugs and clothes.
Her parents apparently never caught on despite the increasing amounts of new merchandise and aberrant behavior.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
IMHO lack of parental guidance does not give companies license to financially exploit children with gambling style monetization.
If minors are caught in a pub/bar, the establishment is fined, they are held responsible not the parents. The fine is $500 per offence where I live.
Same should be true for the gaming companies. They want these gambling style monetization models, then keep the kids out or pay the fucking fine.
Yes, when children commit offences like vandalism, parents are held financially responsible and rightly so.
Not the same thing.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Its hard to accept "your baby' is capable of doing such things.
The eldest is usually the one who fools you the most.
We didn't catch my eldest at activities which got us doing routine shakedowns her room and belongings until she was 14.5.
Our searches found diaries and notes detailing negative activites back to when she was 13.
By the third child we were well seasoned and whole house searches were regular activities, even when they were only 8.
No computers were ever permitted in their rooms, I regularly searched them for evidence of cyberstalkers, and I did take great pains to educate them on the dangers and unacceptable behaviors in the world.
Setting homeless people on fire is bad, seems obvious but apparently some parents here in Florida skipped that one. I didn't .
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I had an allowance which was based on actual hard work (cleaning my room and setting the table and doing the dishes was not work) and then I had a job. And there was a time when I had two jobs.
huh ... maybe what little parenting I got wasn't so bad after all!
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Or use a disposable toilet brush for oral hygiene.
At some point you do have the lay the blame on the person who does this, not the company. Addiction or not .. take responsibility for your actions.
I did earn money as a golf caddy, ($10 per bag), sweeping floors at UPS, newspaper route from 11 to 14, and lawn work $5 per yard.
Didnt go very far even when I turned 16 and got a restaurant job for 15 to 20 hrs a week at $1.45 / hr. Taxes.....
So yeah, I always worked, so have all my children, but never was floating in cash back then.
Terrific inventive to go to and finish college however, factory work I did during summers sucked.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think we all hear that little voice telling us to do stupid things now and again but most of us ignores it.
BTW: I read that scientists have figured out that giving peoples brains electric impulses might get them to like Justin Biebers music (seriously), think what EA would do if they get access to tech like that. ;D
Most of the people who had a negative comment provided nothing as to why they came to that conclusion. My conclusion...I ignore those people.
Just think of all the beer we have paid for,,,,,, and we just pissed it all away!!! How stupid was that!!!
I've been wanting mandatory IQ tests before creating an MMO account for years...
As to the topic, ehh, it's his money (hopefully), but if this gets a few 'save the children' politicians to pay attention and threaten to (or actually) regulate this s**t to the point where loot boxes (and other predatory 'micro‘-transactions) aren't just a regular part of games, all the better.
The solution is for those facing this difficulty to take personal responsibility for themselves and their actions and to work on developing their self-control to resolve it.
To be a real comparison: Imagine if alcohol was completely unregulated and could be included in any drink without it being labeled. You would have to go and research every drink you bought to see if it contained alcohol.
You want people to make informed decisions then give them the info they need to do so. Label every box and website showing that the game contains micro-transactions (and if it applies... gambling loot boxes). Then limit the sale to adults (if it contains gambling look boxes). At that point yeah... it's all on the individual.
As it exists now... companies do everything possible to obfuscate and hide the monetization schemes. God help them if they ever had to list the actual odds of "winning" the item you wanted from your loot box. Or the cost of unlocking all content ($2100 for SWBF2)
Again, I am all for people taking responsibility, so lets all agree that we should make it as easy as possible to give people the information they need to make an informed decision. Sounds like a win/win to me.
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Damn, there goes the player base.
You can argue till the cows come home too, but you can't convince me it's gambling. I guess we're at an impasse. I will ask you this, though, has regulation stopped drinking, smoking, and drugs with teens? Nope! So I don't know what your expectation is here. What's worse is that there is no way that a publisher can knowingly sell to a minor, since they can't tell who is on the other side of the screen. There are parental controls in place for this sort of thing. If the parents don't use them, then where is the liability?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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