Crytek Filing Lawsuit Against CIG

Herase

Kefo said:

Erillion said:

Nope, we are talking about a claim. "Chris Roberts never finished a game when he was in charge". That claim has been proven to be false. Unless you have new evidence about the "Strike Commander" team composition and structure. Let's hear it. 


Have fun

Did CR own Origin systems when strike commander was made? If not then it doesn't really have relevance to the discussion since CR still had someone above him with oversight to keep him in line unlike now and in his previous studio. 

It does because he was in charge of the project, he was employed by the owner to be in charge of the project, to make decisions and direct it. If this wasn't the case, then there would be no point having a director on the project at all

The comment made by rodarin has nothing to do with owning a studio, he said "project", has CR been in charge of a project? Short answer, yes. He was employed as a director and put in charge of the project. 

If this isn't true, then what is the purpose of a director, what do they?

mr1602

Erillion said:

ScotchUp said:

The problem you and other Star Citizen fans have is no one can really believe anything coming from CIG. They have a PR nightmare and with all these arguments on forums not connected to them hasn't been helping them with PR!

What you have to take into account is that these statements (w.r.t. the outright buying of the Engine) where made in 2014.  LONG before any of the current court case discussions.

You may believe they are constantly lying. I do not believe that. Especially not when it comes to a statement from ERIN Roberts from 2014. His brother Chris may get too excited at times... his brother Erin is a quite grounded and realistic person in my opinion.


Have fun

I see this 'CIG bought CryEngine' argument a lot.
Was it ever clear that it wasn't the standard 'if the license holder goes bankrupt, the licensee retains right to the software'? This is a fairly standard clause that are in most IT contracts nowadays. Heck, I've seen that clause in a Microsoft contract.

That Erin post keeps mentioning that 'If Crytek goes bankrupt' (paraphrasing) so I assume that's what it was.

Erillion

mr1602 said:

I see this 'CIG bought CryEngine' argument a lot.
Was it ever clear that it wasn't the standard 'if the license holder goes bankrupt, the licensee retains right to the software'? This is a fairly standard clause that are in most IT contracts nowadays. Heck, I've seen that clause in a Microsoft contract.

That Erin post keeps mentioning that 'If Crytek goes bankrupt' (paraphrasing) so I assume that's what it was.

In the cases you mention the source code is given to a notary and only becomes available in case of a bankruptcy. As CryTek is not bankrupt, CIG would not have access to the source code.

As Erin Roberts specifically mentions that CIG has access to the source code, it is my opinion that this (=the standard clause you mention above) is not the case here.


Have fun

Elsabolts

Another solid reason for off-shore and swiss accounts for the Roberts.

rpmcmurphy

Erillion said:

mr1602 said:

I see this 'CIG bought CryEngine' argument a lot.
Was it ever clear that it wasn't the standard 'if the license holder goes bankrupt, the licensee retains right to the software'? This is a fairly standard clause that are in most IT contracts nowadays. Heck, I've seen that clause in a Microsoft contract.

That Erin post keeps mentioning that 'If Crytek goes bankrupt' (paraphrasing) so I assume that's what it was.

In the cases you mention the source code is given to a notary and only becomes available in case of a bankruptcy. As CryTek is not bankrupt, CIG would not have access to the source code.

As Erin Roberts specifically mentions that CIG has access to the source code, it is my opinion that this (=the standard clause you mention above) is not the case here.


Have fun

CIG certainly have access to the source code. They wouldn't be able to modify and rewrite whole sections of the engine without access to it.

Personally I think Erin mispoke, in his attempt to reassure backers about CIG's position should something happen to Crytek he exaggerated their 'ownership' regarding CryEngine.

They have a license but it is clearly different than the license Amazon has. Neither of those companies own CryEngine as such, the IP rights for CryEngine remain firmly with Crytek.

rpmcmurphy

Article about the suit written by an ex-Escapist employee

http://www.cgmagonline.com/2017/12/19/crytek-v-star-citizen-closer-look/

rodarin

I conceded Strike Commander (sort of) but he was 'in charge' of the 'project' to that extent. But its safe to think that Origin stepped in (like everyone else has with this guy) when it became painfully obvious the project would never be released)

So he has ONE (with a disclaimer).

Either way its shows how desperate they are to fight tooth and nail for that single 'completion' to 'prove' some random internet troll (their definition of me I am sure) 'wrong'.

Anyone with any common sense can see the guy is a failure at his chosen profession, definitely the most important aspects of it anyway. Its why he was burnt out fast. He was hired and apparently fired by how many companies when he was actually relevant? 3, 4? Then after his final failure he disappeared for 20 years only to come back with this scam. Guys who are all the things that the disciples claim Roberts is arent out of their chosen industry for 2 decades. Even if they want to claim self exile after the fact.

BEFORE people realize who and what he was he was the guy who was 'worth the headaches', sort of like a super talented athlete with problems outside of sports. Then when its proven time and time and time again he isnt its all over.

Either way regardless of what happens wit this lawsuit whatever they do end up putting out will be irrelevant and a shadow of the claims they make. If it takes 5 more years (and even the white knights probably consider that generous) how far behind the tech will it be then? that would be like them releasing Rift or NOW. Rift, good game, fun to play but completely dated. If it takes them a few more years beyond that then its Lotro. Another good game with a lot of 'stuff' but even more dated. Looked good in 2007 not so good now. In 5 more years its likely VR will be the thing they will probably have it figured out by then.

MMOs and game are old when they release anyway thats why so many 'failed' because everything that was coming out was bigger better and prettier. And that was when it was taking them 'only' 5 or 6 years to develop and release if it takes these guys 10-12 what does that mean?

SEANMCAD

the absolute hatred toward CR is to me bizzare and the level the haters go to become educated on every aspect of his life.

Erillion

>>> I conceded Strike Commander >>>

** bows **


>>> they >>>

"They" is me. A forum poster and fan. No mythical "they" involved.


Have fun

Tiamat64

SEANMCAD said:

the absolute hatred toward CR is to me bizzare and the level the haters go to become educated on every aspect of his life.

It's not that hard to do things like that these days, really.  The internet is a powerful resource so it usually only takes a few days or so for a public figure.

SEANMCAD

Tiamat64 said:

SEANMCAD said:

the absolute hatred toward CR is to me bizzare and the level the haters go to become educated on every aspect of his life.

It's not that hard to do things like that these days, really.  The internet is a powerful resource so it usually only takes a few days or so for a public figure.

you still have to do a google search to get educated about a person you (not you personally) absolutely and totally loath, not saying I have never done the same but that fact doesnt make it not odd

rodarin

SEANMCAD said:

the absolute hatred toward CR is to me bizzare and the level the haters go to become educated on every aspect of his life.

LMAO its not hate its DUE DILIGENCE (something everyone with an interest with SC is going to hear a lot of).

If some random guy comes out and asked for money do you not check his story?

Its amazing with the history of this guy he got as much as he did. but it shows the hype and hysteria that causes people to do incredibly stupid things.

Last night on Gdax(coinbase) they opened trading up on their exchange to Bitcoin cash. they delayed it from the original Aug 1 release. The coin has been trading around the world for 4+ months. It has seen the usual ups and downs and manipulations and has recently seen a predictive rise in anticipation of this move by GDax/Coinbase. It has risen from around 1200 per coin to 3200 or so right before they went live on Coinbase. Also the subsequent Coinbase release coincided with them also releasing all the 'free' coins people obtained by owning BTC (bitcoin) on their exchange at the time of the fork (8-1-17) thousands, probably tens of thousands.

Now a caveat this was a semi stealth move by Coinbase and not many people heard about it it was SUPPOSED to happen on Jan 1st or there abouts. But they pushed it early.

But the point to this is WHEN Gdax opened up trading the price was already 50% higher there than at every other exchange in the world and the hype and hysteria was so great that some coins were being moved for $10000 per unit, over 300% more than the market rate of the entire world. They finally closed trading altogether and the price was 'stuck' at 9500. I personally saw fairly large blocks of coins 20,30,50 units selling for between 6500 and 8500. Which at the time (even with a small spike at other markets) was 200-275% more than the going rate. The highest price on any other market in the whole world yesterday was 3820 and that was after Gdax had close the market and speculation was still rampant.

Now this might explain how they initially got funded at CiG and got the kickstarter but it doesnt explain how they have been able to perpetuate this flow over the past 5 years. But I guess the hype caused by broken patches and pretty movies, and (continued) possibility of a grey market is enough to keep the ball rolling. And cash flowing.

Tiamat64

SEANMCAD said:

Tiamat64 said:

SEANMCAD said:

the absolute hatred toward CR is to me bizzare and the level the haters go to become educated on every aspect of his life.

It's not that hard to do things like that these days, really.  The internet is a powerful resource so it usually only takes a few days or so for a public figure.

you still have to do a google search to get educated about a person you (not you personally) absolutely and totally loath, not saying I have never done the same but that fact doesnt make it not odd

Hey, if people want to pledge thousands of dollars (for some individuals) into something without doing a quick google search to look into the background, that.... well, that explains why we're here today, really.

SEANMCAD

Tiamat64 said:

SEANMCAD said:

Tiamat64 said:

SEANMCAD said:

the absolute hatred toward CR is to me bizzare and the level the haters go to become educated on every aspect of his life.

It's not that hard to do things like that these days, really.  The internet is a powerful resource so it usually only takes a few days or so for a public figure.

you still have to do a google search to get educated about a person you (not you personally) absolutely and totally loath, not saying I have never done the same but that fact doesnt make it not odd

Hey, if people want to pledge thousands of dollars (for some individuals) into something without doing a quick google search to look into the background, that.... well, that explains why we're here today, really.

and I find that a lot more sane then absolutly hating a person to the level of an obbsession, with no desire whatsoever to donate and then to do a bunch of research on said person for sport.

think about that, one guy who has zero desire to ever donate anything to the game, doesnt like the game, hates the developer...knows more about the developer then people donating.

ironical?

Kefo

Looks like Crytek amended the suit and took out the part about Ortwin and improper conduct unless they just shuffled it into a new section

Orinori

lol, that's the only part i thought could be interesting ^^

Kefo

Orinori said:

lol, that's the only part i thought could be interesting ^^

They also amended it to single out SQ42 specifically and how CIG created a game without getting a license first

Arglebargle

Erillion said:

>>> I conceded Strike Commander >>>

** bows **


>>> they >>>

"They" is me. A forum poster and fan. No mythical "they" involved.


Have fun

Yep, Roberts finished Strike Commander.  Three years late.  Over budget.  A million man-hours or more of work wasted.   And that was with Origin oversight. 

At Digital Anvil, under his sole control, he and his in-house team produced zero, nada, zilch. 


Now I'd never make the claim Roberts wasn't at the helm of completed projects.  He was.  He just ran them very poorly.  Just like now.  Give him another $150 million dollars and I am sure he can get something out.  Buy more ships! Land!  Tanks!

Kefo

Arglebargle said:

Erillion said:

>>> I conceded Strike Commander >>>

** bows **


>>> they >>>

"They" is me. A forum poster and fan. No mythical "they" involved.


Have fun

Yep, Roberts finished Strike Commander.  Three years late.  Over budget.  A million man-hours or more of work wasted.   And that was with Origin oversight. 

At Digital Anvil, under his sole control, he and his in-house team produced zero, nada, zilch. 


Now I'd never make the claim Roberts wasn't at the helm of completed projects.  He was.  He just ran them very poorly.  Just like now.  Give him another $150 million dollars and I am sure he can get something out.  Buy more ships! Land!  Tanks!

Probably ammo soon!

Orinori

Arglebargle said:
Give him another $150 million dollars and I am sure he can get something out.  Buy more ships! Land!  Tanks!

That's the spirit! 

Kefo

So today is the day CIG has to respond to Crytek. Curious if they will or not

Tiamat64

Apparently amending the law suit gives CiG 14 more days to respond.  Odds are Crytek knew this and yet they decided to amend the lawsuit anyways just to say "CiG did it on purpose.  We want even MORE money from CiG than we originally demanded." and remove the Ortwin clause (likely because they found something that made that one unwinnable.  They are clearly doubling down on everything else though).

They are either so incredibly confident that they're willing to pay more legal fees to drag this out another 14 days just so they can get more money, or they're nuts.  Considering the law firm they're hiring, I'd hope it'd be the former, or else that would reflect on Skadden pretty badly.

I imagine the only way to prove that CiG did it on purpose is to do things like subpoena their e-mails, etc.  So in that case, Crytek is either really really serious about taking this to court, or they're really betting that such a threat would make CiG poop their pants for a bigger settlement.  Alhough I still imagine the time for settlement is probably over by now.  If there was a settlement, it really should have happened by now considering how much time has passed.  Or maybe it's still ongoing, in which case Crytek is clearly playing hardball here.

Kefo

Tiamat64 said:

Apparently amending the law suit gives CiG 14 more days to respond.  Odds are Crytek knew this and yet they decided to amend the lawsuit anyways just to say "CiG did it on purpose.  We want even MORE money from CiG than we originally demanded." and remove the Ortwin clause (likely because they found something that made that one unwinnable.  They are clearly doubling down on everything else though).

They are either so incredibly confident that they're willing to pay more legal fees to drag this out another 14 days just so they can get more money, or they're nuts.  Considering the law firm they're hiring, I'd hope it'd be the former, or else that would reflect on Skadden pretty badly.

I imagine the only way to prove that CiG did it on purpose is to do things like subpoena their e-mails, etc.  So in that case, Crytek is either really really serious about taking this to court, or they're really betting that such a threat would make CiG poop their pants for a bigger settlement.  Alhough I still imagine the time for settlement is probably over by now.  If there was a settlement, it really should have happened by now considering how much time has passed.  Or maybe it's still ongoing, in which case Crytek is clearly playing hardball here.

I’m sure they would have preferred it going to trial instead of giving an extra 14 days but I think they’ve tightened the focus of the lawsuit.

I don’t think Crytek is going to go for a out of court settlement and they will push for discovery so that they can try to get the maximum amount of damages out of CIG. Plus they would be sending a message saying if you try to screw us out of what we are owed we will come for you.

rodarin

I wonder if CRoberts house will 'catch on fire'......

Tiamat64

Well, CiG allegedly responded and revealed the GLA.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mPjfXrjAf9RUq3_5cJgd-hF-I5XoCQta

Their response is... um... well, here's a fun quote from CiG's legal response.

"The Complaint Fails to State a Claim For Copyright Infringement Because The GLA Expressly Authorized Defendants’ Prior Use Of The Engine In Squadron 42 And Defendants Are Not Now Using The Engine In Squadron 42."


...yea.  It reads like it was written by a Star Citizen white knight trying to spin everything while completely mangling the meaning of words and language, instead of being written by an actual lawyer.  Which... is probably th case, really.

It even comes with one of the most classical argument tactics of the white knight, the deflection method!

"On December 23, 2016, Defendants announced that they were using the Amazon Lumberyard video game engine for Star Citizen.

This is a blatant misrepresentation of CIG’s announcement. In fact, CIG announced in the 2016 Press Release that it had switched to Amazon Lumberyard for bothStar Citizen and Squadron 42. Thus, Crytek’s claim that CIG is breaching the GLA by using the Engine in Squadron 42 is flatly contradicted by the 2016 Press Release, which makes crystal clear that CIG is using Lumberyard, not the Engine, in Squadron 42."

Well, I've only read through some parts because it feels like reading the same forum posting that white knight arguments on various forums do which ends up hurting my poor brain after a while, but reading the termination clause of the GLA will hopefully at least put to rest all those ridonkulous arguments that CiG's contract was possibly terminated with Crytek because "Crytek failed to provide support" that some CiG defenders keep spouting (ugh, seriously...)