Lol crytek nowdays is a joke of a company which proved to fiscally irresponsible to keep the majority of its staff on the payroll, failed to pay them in a timely fashion for some time before this, and ultimately had to let them go a great many jumped ship to CIG, and like all greedy jokes they think they can litigate their way back into the black, they dont have a leg to stand on as CIG swapped to lumberyard which basically defuses the core of their argument as its no longer THEIR engine, and no products have actually been released which didnt prominantly show crytek labels prior to them swapping to it, basically its a waste of everyones time, unless they can prove the opposite... which they cant.
Furthermore its extremely bad for their PR if and when I ever get the oppertunity to screw the corpse of crytek (ie whats left of the company) i will take it, they can forget recovering their busines, I will refuse to use their engine direct, and I will refuse to buy any crytek games now and forever, they've doomed themselves, It's probably not a good idea to wizz on the aspirations of 2 million hardcore gamers that happen to form a notable portion of their customer base.
And also its a extremely bad idea to piss of amazon, who will stomp crytek like a bug, given amazon's cash is the sole reason they still exist, and amazon has a team of lawyers roughly akind to mr burn's hounds.
This is a Derek DUMB level stupidity at work, and if you'll excuse me I have to go write some accerbic hate mail to send to crytek
Sounds like you are taking this suit far too personally.
- Anything that wastes RSI's money on anything but game development and related will piss me off, after all my money forms a part of the total, perhaps a little greater portion then I had once intended but you cant blame CIG for an excellent marketing campaign, being a game developer myself (ok an indie hundreds of times smaller then cig ) I'm going to immediately reverse the engine decision for a game scheduled to be developed in cryengine licensed direct to crytek, ... probably swap to lumberyard or consider alternative engine arrangements, they probably just lost 75 grand or more
Crytek have every right to bring this suit, read the documents that have been presented to the court, this isn't some snap decision on Cryteks part this has been ongoing for several years, ultimately this will come down to incompetence on the part of CIG, if they'd abided by the terms of their agreement with Crytek there would have been no issue.
As to this being bad PR, I have to disagree, Crytek are merely protecting their business, just as any rational business should, and they have hired a law firm that's one of the best in the business, this isn't some frivolous law suit.
The sad thing is this could spell the end of Star Citizen, which would not be a good thing.
Lol ridiculous CIG engine is NOT cryteks engine its amazon's, yes greed does fester for years, I have read the documents it reads like a joke given the swap to Lumberyard.
There whining bugsmashers shows some of their code, hahahaha like anyone could produce a copy of anything by looking at bugsmashers what a joke of an accusation, that alone is enough to have them laughed out of court by anyone who a knows programming and b watched bugsmashers.
Get laughed out of court so hard that one of the top law firms in NA has taken the case, the guys who won half a billion from Facebook in the Oculus Rift case.
You claim to say you've read the documents, well in said documents it states that CIG were to develop SC exclusively on Cryengine not only that but the sharing of source code is not limited to bugsmashers but also sharing it with third party companies including the guys doing FOIP.
The worse they can do is get a limited amount of cash for a pre-release product and an injunction against use of Cryengine code... code which cig voluntarily stopped using year + ago when they swapped to lumberyard... so they'd have to delete the source code for old defunct version of Star Citizen Pre-ALpha Hanger module... big whoop,.
The agreement with FOIP people is post lumberyard so irrelevant, also they could at best force CIG to pull old versions of bugsmashers from Youtube, ie pre-lumberyard ones.
Fortunately for CIG Star Citizen was largely re-designed in 2015 to a lumberyard based game from what the original star citizen was going to be and cryengine ceased to be used during Star Citizen Pre-Alpha 2.X, so a best they can force them to delete their code archives for a defunct version of star citizen pre-alpha's which has since been re-designed within lumberyard.
Good thing to it seems , CIG have done nothing wrong but tried to develop a game, apparently the fact the game is ambitious is enough to make some people filled with impotent rage that the 170 million raised did not instead go to their pockets for whatever cock and bull scheme they have in their mind's eye, this leads to much trolling and anger over a game, crytek is desperate for cash so trying to hoover up some cash from anywhere they think they can get it, and OJ Simspon hired one of the best law firms in america to, nuff said.
Didn't you know it's always the fault of someone else?
It's Derek Smart or Goons or poor journalism and now the big bad is Crytek, when the one and only constant is CIG.
Well considering each one of those entities tried accuse CIG over something for past 6 years with nothing coming out of it and having it backfire on them, says a lot. Not saying they have no faults, but when someone accuse a company of racism without any proof up until this day due to shoddy research, you're kinda of at fault.
This on the other hand, admittedly, does seem damning, not going to pretend I know any legal shit, just have to wait and see.
When you update this topic, could you change the title to add the date of the new update? I would like to keep up on this as it progresses but I am not really interested in the back and forth discussions...
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
- Anything that wastes RSI's money on anything but game development and related will piss me off, after all my money forms a part of the total, perhaps a little greater portion then I had once intended but you cant blame CIG for an excellent marketing campaign, being a game developer myself (ok an indie hundreds of times smaller then cig ) I'm going to immediately reverse the engine decision for a game scheduled to be developed in cryengine licensed direct to crytek, ... probably swap to lumberyard or consider alternative engine arrangements, they probably just lost 75 grand or more
The worse they can do is get a limited amount of cash for a pre-release product and an injunction against use of Cryengine code... code which cig voluntarily stopped using year + ago when they swapped to lumberyard... so they'd have to delete the source code for old defunct version of Star Citizen Pre-ALpha Hanger module... big whoop,.
Substantially more than $75,000" in legalese means "$80,000 to $80,000,000,000,000,000.00 or beyond". Considering how expensive the law firm Crytek is hiring, it's pretty obvious that it's going to be quite a lot of money they end up asking for, because at the very least they'll need to recoup legal fees and considering that their law firm Skadden researches thngs months in advance before filing the complaint, by now legal costs are already possibly in the millions, and Crytek is not going to settle for anything less than that + damages around that amount as well.
And you include an "injunction" as "the worse they can do" as if it's no big deal. If Crytek gets an injunction, Star Citizen is LITERALLY finished. Done. Legally can't do anything.
An injunction is defined as "a judicial order that restrains a person from beginning or continuing an action threatening or invading the legal right of another, or that compels a person to carry out a certain act, e.g., to make restitution to an injured party.
CONTINUING AN ACTION. If Crytek somehow scores an injunction, Star Citzen is NOT allowed to continue development.
Really doesn't help your argument when you're so clearly out of touch with how legal language works.
Get laughed out of court so hard that one of the top law firms in NA has taken the case, the guys who won half a billion from Facebook in the Oculus Rift case.
You claim to say you've read the documents, well in said documents it states that CIG were to develop SC exclusively on Cryengine not only that but the sharing of source code is not limited to bugsmashers but also sharing it with third party companies including the guys doing FOIP.
The head lawyers that Skadden has on the case are actually listed in the pacer under the "Parties" tab.
It's the same lawyers as the ones that handled the facebook case. (James Young Pak and Paramjeet Anthony Simmons, specifically. I don't know if Kevin James Minnick was on the facebook case too)
So it's not just the same law firm that won so much from Facebook, it's (including) the same people too.
Continuing an action.... if they are no longer continuing to use the engine... how can something preventing them from continuing an action ie using an engine then no longer use be an issue, crytek do not own the IP to star citizen the only thing they can claim an injunction on is development of star citizen on cryengine source code.
Legally cant use something they no longer use... oh how horrid. YOU dont seem to understand that star citizen of today is NOT RUNNING ON CRYENGINE, so how can they finish the development of a product with an injunction against using cryengine... ie something they no longer use, voluntarily ceased using on their own over a year + ago....., and injuction against use of cryengine source code, would have 0 effect on SC development, as they already stopped using it quite some time ago...., as in legally crytek can do nothing to halt sc development as they no longer develop it on cryengine.
no legal firm is infallable, and often success can go to their head, and given the shakey premise of their action against a game that never saw the light of day as a commercial product (ie star citizen based in cryengine) as how exactly it cost them money has to be established, damages are established against losses incurred, that's why its called restitution.
If they had released it as a commercial product theres at least some money to be claimed, but... neither SC42 nor star citizen have been released, so establishing damages is not going to be so easy no matter how good your lawyers as 30% of nothing is nothing.
Few lawsuits have ever been successful brought outside of IP or patent infrigment claims against unreleased titles, and cryteks last such lawsuit was against a released game.
Many companies... (and patent trolls) have claimed damages in the hundreds of millions to billions, and won the case and were awarded 1 dollar even huge companies with mulit-billion dollar lawsuits with the best lawyers on both sides money can buy, what you claim isnt necessarily gonna be what you get, and given CR is tight with amazon, intel and the movie industry lawyers, I doubt he'll have problems getting a legal team of equal quality.
And the facebook winners are about to be humiliated.
Crytek doesn't strike me as a particularly competent company. They filed in California instead of Texas. They should have filed in Texas.
Skadden. The choice of where to file would likely be Skadden's doing, not Crytek. You know, one of the top rated law firms in the world once described by Forbes as the most powerful law firm on Wall Street? You should go apply for a job there because you're obviously better than their employee that decided to file in California instead of Texas.
Now there is no need to be a rude douche. Does that make you feel better or like your point will mean more? You were all about parsing out motives and digging into the why of it before so why the sudden change of heart? You don't think it odd that a software IP and copyright case wouldn't be tried in Texas? That is the go to state for that sort of litigation.
Of course their legal team chose California for a reason. This is a discussion forum so I brought up the point that it's an odd choice. Why so suddenly defensive and rude about that? It's just a point.
There's a difference between saying "I found that odd" and "It doesn't strike me as a particularly competent company." But then, it doesn't surprise me that either you can't even remember what you posted a short time back or that your memory is selectively editing what actually happened in reality considering that you're accusing me of being rude and you don't know why I am being so.
Considering this is a federal case filed in the US District court, I was also somewhat bemused at the "Texas is the go to state" comment since this is not a state case.
Par for the course in this thread though since demonizing Crytech, their actions and their motives seems to be the go to strategy for CIG defenders.
Yes, and the Texas district court is where most copyright cases are filed not the 9th district (California). Are you bemused or just ignorant of how those work?
So your argument is an emotional appeal to vilify the motives of anyone who brings up a point that isn't critical to CIG. Real solid ground - "These guys aren't on our side, so don't believe their 'alt-facts' or fake-news."
It's still a valid question if you're actually interested in answers.
As usual you have a blind spot for your own passive aggressive menure. Rich that the guy who said this:
But keep on hoping for the worst you Kings of Dredge, Princes of Persnickety, and Goons of Gloom.
Is referring to what I said as vilification. Vilification is your SOP, not mine.
And what are your qualifications exactly to question where they chose to file? Did you read an article about the District courts that makes you an expert on where Federal cases should be filed?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Of course their legal team chose California for a reason. ...
Of course they did.
They'll file wherever they think they have the best chance to succeed, no doubt. If it's not an open-and-shut case, little details like that can make all the difference...
Right, but why 9th and not 5th district? Copyright and especially IP cases are most often filed in Texas because that court is so very friendly to the claimants in those cases. The California court is not.
So maybe Cry found a great legal team who wanted the case but needed to file in California because...? I think it's important because there is some non-obvious detail that would make Texas no better a place to file. Maybe it's nothing but it's odd enough that I think that detail could be significant. It could be Crytek's trump card.
Maybe their agreement had a clause about using California.
Crytek doesn't strike me as a particularly competent company. They filed in California instead of Texas. They should have filed in Texas.
Skadden. The choice of where to file would likely be Skadden's doing, not Crytek. You know, one of the top rated law firms in the world once described by Forbes as the most powerful law firm on Wall Street? You should go apply for a job there because you're obviously better than their employee that decided to file in California instead of Texas.
Now there is no need to be a rude douche. Does that make you feel better or like your point will mean more? You were all about parsing out motives and digging into the why of it before so why the sudden change of heart? You don't think it odd that a software IP and copyright case wouldn't be tried in Texas? That is the go to state for that sort of litigation.
Of course their legal team chose California for a reason. This is a discussion forum so I brought up the point that it's an odd choice. Why so suddenly defensive and rude about that? It's just a point.
There's a difference between saying "I found that odd" and "It doesn't strike me as a particularly competent company." But then, it doesn't surprise me that either you can't even remember what you posted a short time back or that your memory is selectively editing what actually happened in reality considering that you're accusing me of being rude and you don't know why I am being so.
Considering this is a federal case filed in the US District court, I was also somewhat bemused at the "Texas is the go to state" comment since this is not a state case.
Par for the course in this thread though since demonizing Crytech, their actions and their motives seems to be the go to strategy for CIG defenders.
Yes, and the Texas district court is where most copyright cases are filed not the 9th district (California). Are you bemused or just ignorant of how those work?
So your argument is an emotional appeal to vilify the motives of anyone who brings up a point that isn't critical to CIG. Real solid ground - "These guys aren't on our side, so don't believe their 'alt-facts' or fake-news."
It's still a valid question if you're actually interested in answers.
As usual you have a blind spot for your own passive aggressive menure. Rich that the guy who said this:
But keep on hoping for the worst you Kings of Dredge, Princes of Persnickety, and Goons of Gloom.
Is referring to what I said as vilification. Vilification is your SOP, not mine.
And what are your qualifications exactly to question where they chose to file? Did you read an article about the District courts that makes you an expert on where Federal cases should be filed?
Difference being I'm not trying to discredit an opinion or question motives for being persnickety. I never questioned that a motive would make that opinion less valid, like you did by labeling someone a defender and then implying that their opinion is less because of that.
I don't have to be an expert to make a valid point or ask a question. See that's you again questioning the person instead of addressing the argument by trying to imply that my opinion isn't valid until I prove that I'm an 'expert'.
Do some research on the popularity of filing patent and copyright claims in Texas. It's a court that is ha been very favorable to the plaintiff in the past. So, if the legal team chose the California court as the starter, then why? What significant fact would make that a better choice. The reason could be significant.
Do not doubt that Roberts and crew might have signed some binding terms with Crytek that they then sloughed off on. To their present detriment.
Best case scenario: Faced with catastrophic legal defeat, CIG has to go to big daddy Amazon for a bailout; which leads to Amazon taking over the SC project, sweeping clean the incompetent upper management, and eventually getting the game out.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Crytek doesn't strike me as a particularly competent company. They filed in California instead of Texas. They should have filed in Texas.
Skadden. The choice of where to file would likely be Skadden's doing, not Crytek. You know, one of the top rated law firms in the world once described by Forbes as the most powerful law firm on Wall Street? You should go apply for a job there because you're obviously better than their employee that decided to file in California instead of Texas.
Now there is no need to be a rude douche. Does that make you feel better or like your point will mean more? You were all about parsing out motives and digging into the why of it before so why the sudden change of heart? You don't think it odd that a software IP and copyright case wouldn't be tried in Texas? That is the go to state for that sort of litigation.
Of course their legal team chose California for a reason. This is a discussion forum so I brought up the point that it's an odd choice. Why so suddenly defensive and rude about that? It's just a point.
There's a difference between saying "I found that odd" and "It doesn't strike me as a particularly competent company." But then, it doesn't surprise me that either you can't even remember what you posted a short time back or that your memory is selectively editing what actually happened in reality considering that you're accusing me of being rude and you don't know why I am being so.
Considering this is a federal case filed in the US District court, I was also somewhat bemused at the "Texas is the go to state" comment since this is not a state case.
Par for the course in this thread though since demonizing Crytech, their actions and their motives seems to be the go to strategy for CIG defenders.
Yes, and the Texas district court is where most copyright cases are filed not the 9th district (California). Are you bemused or just ignorant of how those work?
So your argument is an emotional appeal to vilify the motives of anyone who brings up a point that isn't critical to CIG. Real solid ground - "These guys aren't on our side, so don't believe their 'alt-facts' or fake-news."
It's still a valid question if you're actually interested in answers.
As usual you have a blind spot for your own passive aggressive menure. Rich that the guy who said this:
But keep on hoping for the worst you Kings of Dredge, Princes of Persnickety, and Goons of Gloom.
Is referring to what I said as vilification. Vilification is your SOP, not mine.
And what are your qualifications exactly to question where they chose to file? Did you read an article about the District courts that makes you an expert on where Federal cases should be filed?
Difference being I'm not trying to discredit an opinion or question motives for being persnickety. I never questioned that a motive would make that opinion less valid, like you did by labeling someone a defender and then implying that their opinion is less because of that.
I don't have to be an expert to make a valid point or ask a question. See that's you again questioning the person instead of addressing the argument by trying to imply that my opinion isn't valid until I prove that I'm an 'expert'.
Do some research on the popularity of filing patent and copyright claims in Texas. It's a court that is ha been very favorable to the plaintiff in the past. So, if the legal team chose the California court as the starter, then why? What significant fact would make that a better choice. The reason could be significant.
TC Heartland v. Kraft Food Brand. Courts ruled on favor of Heartland that Corporations may only bring suit in the state of their incorporation.
Now that is very interesting.
Right? I didn't know about the ruling until I did some searching reference your and @Iselin's posts.
It's a sort of interesting side story all its own that a town in East Texas was making a living off of patent/copyright lawsuits.
It really didn't need to exist, so this is for the best. Shopping around judges for a favorable ruling is about as contrary to the overarching idea of "justice" as you can get.
I'm wondering if Chris and Co. could have been so bold as to blatantly violate the clauses Crytek mentions in the suit. Also, Crytek is making the case that Ortwin and the party they had negotiate their side of the licensing contract were privvy to inside information that unfairly harmed Crytek's position in negotiating the contract. CIG later hired the employee away from Crytek, further adding to the "they did whaaaaat?" drama. Will be interesting to see CIG's point for point response.
Right? I didn't know about the ruling until I did some searching reference your and @Iselin's posts.
It's a sort of interesting side story all its own that a town in East Texas was making a living off of patent/copyright lawsuits.
It really didn't need to exist, so this is for the best. Shopping around judges for a favorable ruling is about as contrary to the overarching idea of "justice" as you can get.
I'm wondering if Chris and Co. could have been so bold as to blatantly violate the clauses Crytek mentions in the suit. Also, Crytek is making the case that Ortwin and the party they had negotiate their side of the licensing contract were privvy to inside information that unfairly harmed Crytek's position in negotiating the contract. CIG later hired the employee away from Crytek, further adding to the "they did whaaaaat?" drama. Will be interesting to see CIG's point for point response.
The reason why the lawsuit mentions Ortwin in this context is so CIG can't put up the standard defense of 'We didn't know that this clause was in the contract. Can we just say that a lesson was learned and promise we won't do it again?'
It is a defense that is often made in cases like this.
Crytek doesn't strike me as a particularly competent company. They filed in California instead of Texas. They should have filed in Texas.
Skadden. The choice of where to file would likely be Skadden's doing, not Crytek. You know, one of the top rated law firms in the world once described by Forbes as the most powerful law firm on Wall Street? You should go apply for a job there because you're obviously better than their employee that decided to file in California instead of Texas.
Now there is no need to be a rude douche. Does that make you feel better or like your point will mean more? You were all about parsing out motives and digging into the why of it before so why the sudden change of heart? You don't think it odd that a software IP and copyright case wouldn't be tried in Texas? That is the go to state for that sort of litigation.
Of course their legal team chose California for a reason. This is a discussion forum so I brought up the point that it's an odd choice. Why so suddenly defensive and rude about that? It's just a point.
There's a difference between saying "I found that odd" and "It doesn't strike me as a particularly competent company." But then, it doesn't surprise me that either you can't even remember what you posted a short time back or that your memory is selectively editing what actually happened in reality considering that you're accusing me of being rude and you don't know why I am being so.
Considering this is a federal case filed in the US District court, I was also somewhat bemused at the "Texas is the go to state" comment since this is not a state case.
Par for the course in this thread though since demonizing Crytech, their actions and their motives seems to be the go to strategy for CIG defenders.
Yes, and the Texas district court is where most copyright cases are filed not the 9th district (California). Are you bemused or just ignorant of how those work?
So your argument is an emotional appeal to vilify the motives of anyone who brings up a point that isn't critical to CIG. Real solid ground - "These guys aren't on our side, so don't believe their 'alt-facts' or fake-news."
It's still a valid question if you're actually interested in answers.
As usual you have a blind spot for your own passive aggressive menure. Rich that the guy who said this:
But keep on hoping for the worst you Kings of Dredge, Princes of Persnickety, and Goons of Gloom.
Is referring to what I said as vilification. Vilification is your SOP, not mine.
And what are your qualifications exactly to question where they chose to file? Did you read an article about the District courts that makes you an expert on where Federal cases should be filed?
Difference being I'm not trying to discredit an opinion or question motives for being persnickety. I never questioned that a motive would make that opinion less valid, like you did by labeling someone a defender and then implying that their opinion is less because of that.
In every single thread in these forums where you perceive an "attack" on a publisher or developer you routinely make blanket or targeted disparaging comments about those being critical and characterize them as whiners, butthurt or put any other cutesy or offensive label on them that strikes your fancy at the moment.
It's what you do. It's what we know you do. It's there in black and white for anyone to read.
We all do it too on occasions although not nearly as often or predictably as you. The real difference here is that we don't try to pretend we didn't do it and try to claim some bogus moral high ground as people who don't do that sort of thing.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Lol crytek nowdays is a joke of a company which proved to fiscally irresponsible to keep the majority of its staff on the payroll, failed to pay them in a timely fashion for some time before this, and ultimately had to let them go a great many jumped ship to CIG, and like all greedy jokes they think they can litigate their way back into the black, they dont have a leg to stand on as CIG swapped to lumberyard which basically defuses the core of their argument as its no longer THEIR engine, and no products have actually been released which didnt prominantly show crytek labels prior to them swapping to it, basically its a waste of everyones time, unless they can prove the opposite... which they cant.
Furthermore its extremely bad for their PR if and when I ever get the oppertunity to screw the corpse of crytek (ie whats left of the company) i will take it, they can forget recovering their busines, I will refuse to use their engine direct, and I will refuse to buy any crytek games now and forever, they've doomed themselves, It's probably not a good idea to wizz on the aspirations of 2 million hardcore gamers that happen to form a notable portion of their customer base.
And also its a extremely bad idea to piss of amazon, who will stomp crytek like a bug, given amazon's cash is the sole reason they still exist, and amazon has a team of lawyers roughly akind to mr burn's hounds.
This is a Derek DUMB level stupidity at work, and if you'll excuse me I have to go write some accerbic hate mail to send to crytek
Sounds like you are taking this suit far too personally.
- Anything that wastes RSI's money on anything but game development and related will piss me off, after all my money forms a part of the total, perhaps a little greater portion then I had once intended but you cant blame CIG for an excellent marketing campaign, being a game developer myself (ok an indie hundreds of times smaller then cig ) I'm going to immediately reverse the engine decision for a game scheduled to be developed in cryengine licensed direct to crytek, ... probably swap to lumberyard or consider alternative engine arrangements, they probably just lost 75 grand or more
I guess you gave them a pass on the 20K coffee maker and 15K doors and 10K murals huh? Not to mention the (alleged) fleet of cars theyre all riding around in along with some of the most expensive office space in Santa Monica. And the international flights they take monthly and I imagine the 5 star hotels wherever they go.
After eight pages I am sure someone has said this but just in case:
Has the new Kickstarter goal "Pay For The Copyright Infringement Law Suit" started yet?
Kickstarter campaign has finished in November 2012.
You are a tad late. ;-)
Not to mention that these days the Kickstarter money gathered back then amounts to only about 1.4 % of the total project money.
Have fun
I think that figure 1.4% figure might be one of the reasons the business model was questioned in another thread. Anyway what players want is a good game, if they get that I don't care about the fluff, hype and bluster.
After eight pages I am sure someone has said this but just in case:
Has the new Kickstarter goal "Pay For The Copyright Infringement Law Suit" started yet?
Kickstarter campaign has finished in November 2012.
You are a tad late. ;-)
Not to mention that these days the Kickstarter money gathered back then amounts to only about 1.4 % of the total project money.
Have fun
I think that figure 1.4% figure might be one of the reasons the business model was questioned in another thread. Anyway what players want is a good game, if they get that I don't care about the fluff, hype and bluster.
Yup, an enjoyable game at the end of it all is the only thing I care about.
Although watching the show go by while I wait is quite entertaining in itself !
After eight pages I am sure someone has said this but just in case:
Has the new Kickstarter goal "Pay For The Copyright Infringement Law Suit" started yet?
Kickstarter campaign has finished in November 2012.
You are a tad late. ;-)
Not to mention that these days the Kickstarter money gathered back then amounts to only about 1.4 % of the total project money.
Have fun
I think that figure 1.4% figure might be one of the reasons the business model was questioned in another thread. Anyway what players want is a good game, if they get that I don't care about the fluff, hype and bluster.
Yup, an enjoyable game at the end of it all is the only thing I care about.
Although watching the show go by while I wait is quite entertaining in itself !
Which is why I'll be sad when the game finally finishes development. Thankfully Croberts is at the helm so I'm sure he has plenty of baloons up his sleeve for the coming years.
Lol crytek nowdays is a joke of a company which proved to fiscally irresponsible to keep the majority of its staff on the payroll, failed to pay them in a timely fashion for some time before this, and ultimately had to let them go a great many jumped ship to CIG, and like all greedy jokes they think they can litigate their way back into the black, they dont have a leg to stand on as CIG swapped to lumberyard which basically defuses the core of their argument as its no longer THEIR engine, and no products have actually been released which didnt prominantly show crytek labels prior to them swapping to it, basically its a waste of everyones time, unless they can prove the opposite... which they cant.
Furthermore its extremely bad for their PR if and when I ever get the oppertunity to screw the corpse of crytek (ie whats left of the company) i will take it, they can forget recovering their busines, I will refuse to use their engine direct, and I will refuse to buy any crytek games now and forever, they've doomed themselves, It's probably not a good idea to wizz on the aspirations of 2 million hardcore gamers that happen to form a notable portion of their customer base.
And also its a extremely bad idea to piss of amazon, who will stomp crytek like a bug, given amazon's cash is the sole reason they still exist, and amazon has a team of lawyers roughly akind to mr burn's hounds.
This is a Derek DUMB level stupidity at work, and if you'll excuse me I have to go write some accerbic hate mail to send to crytek
Sounds like you are taking this suit far too personally.
- Anything that wastes RSI's money on anything but game development and related will piss me off, after all my money forms a part of the total, perhaps a little greater portion then I had once intended but you cant blame CIG for an excellent marketing campaign, being a game developer myself (ok an indie hundreds of times smaller then cig ) I'm going to immediately reverse the engine decision for a game scheduled to be developed in cryengine licensed direct to crytek, ... probably swap to lumberyard or consider alternative engine arrangements, they probably just lost 75 grand or more
I guess you gave them a pass on the 20K coffee maker and 15K doors and 10K murals huh? Not to mention the (alleged) fleet of cars theyre all riding around in along with some of the most expensive office space in Santa Monica. And the international flights they take monthly and I imagine the 5 star hotels wherever they go.
Blame Crytek for that too I suppose.
Given they have studios with up to 100 staff working long hours, a 20k coffee maker is perfectly acceptable, coffee is a vital part of development and only 20k per for the extra work they get out of it is a steel, being a game developer I know about the importance of coffee, big studios need doors and murals... it helps raise the moral of the staff, no ones particularly pleased to show up to a horrid dump where everything looks and feels cheap some faceless drone office, specially if you want the best game developers to work their best work, they need to feel like their working at a high end company and not 3rd world dev studio inc, this means murals nice doors and mostly importantly nice coffee makers, out of 170 million paying for a few nice murals walls and coffee makers is hardly an issue.
Just cos its crowdfunded doesnt mean they should have to put up with poundland working conditions, how exactly is your company gonna poach talent from other game developers is all you have to offer them is a Scrouge certified office, I have all kind of things I dont need for development technically but help improve the ambiance, you dont need a 200 euro keyboard for game development, but damned if you dont feel better using one, the same principal is at play to get the best out of people you need a nice pleasant environment, those that try to skimp on these things will shoot themselves in the foot when they get less enthusiastic staff working less.
Ya think google skimps on the doors and coffeemakers... and see what they came up with, best environment for the best staff produces the best work, no one wants to drive around in shitty cars, nor stay at budget hotels, your not going to get the best staff like that, they'll go somewhere that will offer them better, that kind of penny pinching development would not help the backers of star citizen, its poor staff management, and false-economy savings, efficiency requires happy staff.
Last thing you want is people choosing not to go through all the bother of travelling between studios for vital reasons of coordination, because they dont want to travel cattle class to stay at a shite-hole, which is what happens when that's all is on offer, no matter how good the hotel or cars travelling long-distance is tiring and stressfull and anything a company can do to alleviate this stress is money well spent, if the traveling to be done is vital, which for developing at multiple studios around the world is vital.
That kind of thinking is what came up with the stupid expenses scandle for politicians, where politicians already paid a tiny fraction of top executives despite having harder work to do, dont even get beneifts, and what did the country get out of this penny pinching exercise... May for Prime Minster and Boris the Clown for Foreign Secutary, that's what ya get for penny pinching an ever worsening quality of politician, and a fudged economy caused by incompetence. Plenty of jobs on offer long as you dont mind working zero hour contracts with no financial security and barely scraping by paycheck to paycheck, long hours stressed staff with high suicide rates and one of the worse efficiency ratings in the western world (just behind america and japan, which are even worse, cos they work even longer hours)
All the politicans are either rich people who care nothing for poor people other than how they can exploit their ignorance and personal prejudices for their own personal gain, or the kind of people who wouldnt make it onto a board of director's of any decent company because their to incompetent, how wonderful.
Comments
The agreement with FOIP people is post lumberyard so irrelevant, also they could at best force CIG to pull old versions of bugsmashers from Youtube, ie pre-lumberyard ones.
Fortunately for CIG Star Citizen was largely re-designed in 2015 to a lumberyard based game from what the original star citizen was going to be and cryengine ceased to be used during Star Citizen Pre-Alpha 2.X, so a best they can force them to delete their code archives for a defunct version of star citizen pre-alpha's which has since been re-designed within lumberyard.
Good thing to it seems
This on the other hand, admittedly, does seem damning, not going to pretend I know any legal shit, just have to wait and see.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
When you update this topic, could you change the title to add the date of the new update? I would like to keep up on this as it progresses but I am not really interested in the back and forth discussions...
And you include an "injunction" as "the worse they can do" as if it's no big deal. If Crytek gets an injunction, Star Citizen is LITERALLY finished. Done. Legally can't do anything.
An injunction is defined as "a judicial order that restrains a person from beginning or continuing an action threatening or invading the legal right of another, or that compels a person to carry out a certain act, e.g., to make restitution to an injured party.
CONTINUING AN ACTION. If Crytek somehow scores an injunction, Star Citzen is NOT allowed to continue development.
Really doesn't help your argument when you're so clearly out of touch with how legal language works.
The head lawyers that Skadden has on the case are actually listed in the pacer under the "Parties" tab.
https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/23222744/Crytek_GmbH_v_Cloud_Imperium_Games_Corp_et_al
It's the same lawyers as the ones that handled the facebook case. (James Young Pak and Paramjeet Anthony Simmons, specifically. I don't know if Kevin James Minnick was on the facebook case too)
So it's not just the same law firm that won so much from Facebook, it's (including) the same people too.
Legally cant use something they no longer use... oh how horrid. YOU dont seem to understand that star citizen of today is NOT RUNNING ON CRYENGINE, so how can they finish the development of a product with an injunction against using cryengine... ie something they no longer use, voluntarily ceased using on their own over a year + ago....., and injuction against use of cryengine source code, would have 0 effect on SC development, as they already stopped using it quite some time ago...., as in legally crytek can do nothing to halt sc development as they no longer develop it on cryengine.
no legal firm is infallable, and often success can go to their head, and given the shakey premise of their action against a game that never saw the light of day as a commercial product (ie star citizen based in cryengine) as how exactly it cost them money has to be established, damages are established against losses incurred, that's why its called restitution.
If they had released it as a commercial product theres at least some money to be claimed, but... neither SC42 nor star citizen have been released, so establishing damages is not going to be so easy no matter how good your lawyers as 30% of nothing is nothing.
Few lawsuits have ever been successful brought outside of IP or patent infrigment claims against unreleased titles, and cryteks last such lawsuit was against a released game.
Many companies... (and patent trolls) have claimed damages in the hundreds of millions to billions, and won the case and were awarded 1 dollar
And the facebook winners are about to be humiliated.
Is referring to what I said as vilification. Vilification is your SOP, not mine.
And what are your qualifications exactly to question where they chose to file? Did you read an article about the District courts that makes you an expert on where Federal cases should be filed?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
TC Heartland v. Kraft Food Brand. Courts ruled on favor of Heartland that Corporations may only bring suit in the state of their incorporation.
Best case scenario: Faced with catastrophic legal defeat, CIG has to go to big daddy Amazon for a bailout; which leads to Amazon taking over the SC project, sweeping clean the incompetent upper management, and eventually getting the game out.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
It's a sort of interesting side story all its own that a town in East Texas was making a living off of patent/copyright lawsuits.
It really didn't need to exist, so this is for the best. Shopping around judges for a favorable ruling is about as contrary to the overarching idea of "justice" as you can get.
I'm wondering if Chris and Co. could have been so bold as to blatantly violate the clauses Crytek mentions in the suit. Also, Crytek is making the case that Ortwin and the party they had negotiate their side of the licensing contract were privvy to inside information that unfairly harmed Crytek's position in negotiating the contract. CIG later hired the employee away from Crytek, further adding to the "they did whaaaaat?" drama. Will be interesting to see CIG's point for point response.
'We didn't know that this clause was in the contract. Can we just say that a lesson was learned and promise we won't do it again?'
It is a defense that is often made in cases like this.
Original - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4551#post462019951 (paywall)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund
CIG is sued by Crytek
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
EX-Backer StreetRoller sues Chris Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojx7VcbowYQ
In every single thread in these forums where you perceive an "attack" on a publisher or developer you routinely make blanket or targeted disparaging comments about those being critical and characterize them as whiners, butthurt or put any other cutesy or offensive label on them that strikes your fancy at the moment.
It's what you do. It's what we know you do. It's there in black and white for anyone to read.
We all do it too on occasions although not nearly as often or predictably as you. The real difference here is that we don't try to pretend we didn't do it and try to claim some bogus moral high ground as people who don't do that sort of thing.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Blame Crytek for that too I suppose.
Has the new Kickstarter goal "Pay For The Copyright Infringement Law Suit" started yet?
You are a tad late. ;-)
Not to mention that these days the Kickstarter money gathered back then amounts to only about 1.4 % of the total project money.
Have fun
I think that figure 1.4% figure might be one of the reasons the business model was questioned in another thread. Anyway what players want is a good game, if they get that I don't care about the fluff, hype and bluster.
Although watching the show go by while I wait is quite entertaining in itself !
Thankfully Croberts is at the helm so I'm sure he has plenty of baloons up his sleeve for the coming years.
..Cake..
Just cos its crowdfunded doesnt mean they should have to put up with poundland working conditions, how exactly is your company gonna poach talent from other game developers is all you have to offer them is a Scrouge certified office, I have all kind of things I dont need for development technically but help improve the ambiance, you dont need a 200 euro keyboard for game development, but damned if you dont feel better using one, the same principal is at play to get the best out of people you need a nice pleasant environment, those that try to skimp on these things will shoot themselves in the foot when they get less enthusiastic staff working less.
Ya think google skimps on the doors and coffeemakers... and see what they came up with, best environment for the best staff produces the best work, no one wants to drive around in shitty cars, nor stay at budget hotels, your not going to get the best staff like that, they'll go somewhere that will offer them better, that kind of penny pinching development would not help the backers of star citizen, its poor staff management, and false-economy savings, efficiency requires happy staff.
Last thing you want is people choosing not to go through all the bother of travelling between studios for vital reasons of coordination, because they dont want to travel cattle class to stay at a shite-hole, which is what happens when that's all is on offer, no matter how good the hotel or cars travelling long-distance is tiring and stressfull and anything a company can do to alleviate this stress is money well spent, if the traveling to be done is vital, which for developing at multiple studios around the world is vital.
That kind of thinking is what came up with the stupid expenses scandle for politicians, where politicians already paid a tiny fraction of top executives despite having harder work to do, dont even get beneifts, and what did the country get out of this penny pinching exercise... May for Prime Minster and Boris the Clown for Foreign Secutary, that's what ya get for penny pinching an ever worsening quality of politician, and a fudged economy caused by incompetence. Plenty of jobs on offer long as you dont mind working zero hour contracts with no financial security and barely scraping by paycheck to paycheck, long hours stressed staff with high suicide rates and one of the worse efficiency ratings in the western world (just behind america and japan, which are even worse, cos they work even longer hours)
All the politicans are either rich people who care nothing for poor people other than how they can exploit their ignorance and personal prejudices for their own personal gain, or the kind of people who wouldnt make it onto a board of director's of any decent company because their to incompetent, how wonderful.