WoW is looking good these days with it's no bullshit subscription model. Seriously, I'm considering starting it up again...
I am telling you, is the only game in this fucked up MMO genre, which is worth playing it.
I am playing it on and off since Legion started , and I am having a blast. There is no other MMO which can come close to WoW in ALL terms.
Plus, as you said , with "no bullshit subscription model" . 15$ a month and you get it FULL.
On a side note .. let's take a moment and let's imagine a world without Blizzard.
.... exactly !
LOL.... ESO destroys it in every content, combat, class depth, customization, options of how to play and ability to get stuff done quickly, graphics, sound, animation, beautiful world, awesome quests with story and meaning, puzzles and nice lore and surprises behind them, NPCs that make a believable realistic world, bards singing real songs in the pub, chatter between neighbors, all of them with voiced over lines and choices to be had in conversation, can go on and on.
People like you that say WOW is the ONLY one are brainwashed and are why MMOs are in such bad shape, no matter how good games are you will always go back to your addiction.
Potential problems with this model? Here's a big one.
"How will ACE prevent the guild leaders from embezzling the funds in the guild wallet?
The guild wallet is owned by the guild leader, and they can't embezzle what they own. To be clear: the contents of the guild wallet are considered to be owned by the guild leader.
Be careful who you trust."
Just like Eve. No matter how much you think you can trust someone, it'll never be enough. Gotta love those multi-billion guild (corporation) scandals!
Not quite like EVE, at least there control.of guild assets can be shared with others, for better or worse.
I can think alternate ways this could be managed, they chose the easiest route.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What the F... I read the comments before reading the article and the comments make this seem like no big deal but then I read the article and it is a 100% we've sold out move and don't give a s about the game anymore and only about money. "If you buy early you get a discount % and you get extra if you buy x" wtf is that bullshit? am I signing up for a home loan, trading stocks or playing a damn game?
How can anyone think that after all the effort they obviously put in to this monetary system they won't add "convenience" items or things that can be used in campaigns. I haven't played it yet but does the game suck so bad that even before the game is anywhere near being released they are already coming up with alternate ways to drain players of money?
If you guys are wondering where microtransactions and other revenue streams actually came from: investors (whether it is a public traded company or financed through private investors).
I am not sure how i feel about this. By adding the cash shop this early it just tells me it will be F2P within 6 months a year tops. This is not what i preordered. The fact that items can have a price all the way up to 200 is ridiculous. This is already saying that if your a whale youll love our game. I already regret putting any money towards this especially since they have pushed it back and still are not in larger testing phases.What the hell was the point of beta access with preorder when the beta is gonna be a month long. I like the days when alpha was internal.
They really need to hold people that "donate" to a games production accountability. Seems like all these kickstarter mmos are just cash grabs that promise the world, dont deliver and end of selling things before they even have concept art made.
They really need to hold people that "donate" to a games production accountability. Seems like all these kickstarter mmos are just cash grabs that promise the world, dont deliver and end of selling things before they even have concept art made.
Charities are required to provide financial statements to their donors to make sure they're spending the money responsibly. Large crowd funded ventures are only exempt from this because crowd funding is a new concept and the law hasn't gotten around to them yet, and it probably won't until a major disaster happens.
By the time a major disaster does happen, it'll be too late for all these other disasters in the making. Oh well, a fool and his money are soon parted.
...and people say Blizzard is greedy . This guys hasn't even released the game, are charging 40-50$ for the game and still, you see a cash shop with a huge P2W potential.
People were crying about the EA's BF2 loot boxes and yet, we see a ... 7000$ "palace" in this game.
Well deserved I guess. As long as some players want that ..."palace" , we will all see this kind of games popping up ..and in the end , nothing will change.
So ..
STOP GIVING MONEY TO SHITTY COMPANIES !!
They've got a 10k castle for the highest backer tier too if I recall
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
"In addition to personal Crown purchases, a new "guild wallet" function will be added"
and....
"To help with personal Crown purchases, a new "whale wallet" function will be added"
I don't have an issue with cash shops in a b2p or f2p game. How else is the game supposed to keep going without a monthly subscription?
It is the escalating prices, coupled with the move from cosmetics to advantage items in these cash shops that are ruining this branch of mmo's.
All I see happening now is a series of games effectively ruining these models, harming the whole b2p/f2p sector. Even if a completely cosmetic only cash shop f2p game launched now, players quite rightly would just be wondering when the first b2win items would start to appear in the shop.
I researched this game and basically I see a lot of comments about the $7000 palace. From my understanding that is just one big giant cosmetic skin for your own personal instance and has nothing to do with the campaigns you and your guild try to win. Also you just don't get the palace you have to build it from resources from the campaign worlds. So its a $7000 skin, which is crazy but not game breaking if it is as I found. As for everything else idk.
Before grabbing your pitchforks, consider these couple details; The former is a reminder by Tinnis from reddit, and the latter is another quote from r/MMORPG, by yours truly:
1) As a side note for those not aware - a 'game currency' is a legal requirement if they are 'officially' operating in Europe
"An interesting side-effect of having an official “presence” in Europe
is that we can no longer allow people to have in store “credit” in
real-world currency. (EU laws don’t allow you to hold on to real-world
currency unless you are a bank!)...
...We need to do what most MMO companies do: convert this credit into
some kind of in-game currency that can be used to purchase things from
the store."
...and 2) Folks
you are (again, as usual) wrongly assuming way too much while knowing
too little - or nothing - about the game; It's the same all over the
internet, I guess people are hungry for some kind of collective
psychotherapy or "OMGLOLOZ!11! Did he say THAT?" kind of drama. We are
talking about fluff for instanced personal housing, cosmetics and such;
You know, milking whales the right way.
One of the reasons, possibly THE reason, for removing anything above $200 from the shop is that they actually were NOT
selling these, while continuously taking lots of heat, type of what we
see here: people go to the shop, see big numbers and go wild; Especially
speaking of the infamous $7k castle (also known as "WTF!$7k??lol!" on
the interwebz), I am aware of one or maybe two sold since Kickstarter in
March 2015(!), none this year and likely none in 2016.
There is a number of important details that differs Crowfall from
Star Citizen or R.I.P. Shroud of the Avatar. Say, you will see that lots
of items in the cash shop are barely on the level of the concept art or
greyboxes (the very first phase of creating a 3D model), and they are
"hibernating" in that state for years already; That is simple
consequence of Crowfall team being dedicated to actually creating the
game, and not developing the cash shop - they are using their manpower
the way they should.
That approach is clearly reflected on the state of the game, and especially on their pledgemeter (you can see budget breakdown here);
Namely, since Kickstarter, they got only a bit more than $2M from
pledges - that would be people buying stuff from the shop,
pre-purchasing the game etc. - which should be compared to $20M total
budget, and especially to similar breakdowns for other games/companies.
Before you ask:
"If they don't give any advantages over other players, what's the point of them costing so much?"
It's simply for making money, if whales are willing to give you $10k
for (damn overpriced if you ask me) Kickstarter package full of fluff
and toys, then let them do so; They sold 15 or 16 of these during KS(!),
and I can only try to enter the head of someone willing to drop that
kind of money on a video game, anyway I can try.
One of crucial design promises, repeated a million times so far, is
that players will be able to totally ignore their, or anyone else's,
Kingdoms and play the game the way they want. What are the motifs of
whales / EK owners? I guess showing off, vanity, housing/cosmetics,
potential to attract and control thousands of players on their private
server, tax them, play with the economy, maybe host some PvP tournaments
/ arenas / guild wars, fame, potentially making money (including real
world cash?) depending on how it all develops... these would be off the
top of my head.
...and people say Blizzard is greedy . This guys hasn't even released the game, are charging 40-50$ for the game and still, you see a cash shop with a huge P2W potential.
People were crying about the EA's BF2 loot boxes and yet, we see a ... 7000$ "palace" in this game.
Well deserved I guess. As long as some players want that ..."palace" , we will all see this kind of games popping up ..and in the end , nothing will change.
So ..
STOP GIVING MONEY TO SHITTY COMPANIES !!
As far as I know they are not selling any p2w items ...
...and people say Blizzard is greedy . This guys hasn't even released the game, are charging 40-50$ for the game and still, you see a cash shop with a huge P2W potential.
People were crying about the EA's BF2 loot boxes and yet, we see a ... 7000$ "palace" in this game.
Well deserved I guess. As long as some players want that ..."palace" , we will all see this kind of games popping up ..and in the end , nothing will change.
So ..
STOP GIVING MONEY TO SHITTY COMPANIES !!
As far as I know they are not selling any p2w items ...
That's why I said "with a huge P2W potential" .
I don't even know much about this game or the ... "items' they sell in the shop , but any company which adds items with a price tag of say 7k $ , it will always end up in the P2W category.
You cannot sell things for 7k$ which will not give the player any advantages. Period.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
This is why I stay away from crowdfunded mmorpg before they release. Did anyone think investors would put $6M into the project without some sort of monetization happening?
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Another game to cross off the list, RIP.
They are clearly not paying attention to the mmorpg community and the development of the business, "we are sick and tired of CASHSHOP GAMES and their fucking buy this for cosmetics, what the fuck is that shit all about? U SHOULD AS A COMPLETE GAME have cosmetic options in the first place, its as much part of the game as being able to move your character around, so next thing is, if you want spell effects buy it in the cashshop? GTFO thank god i never backed this game
...and people say Blizzard is greedy . This guys hasn't even released the game, are charging 40-50$ for the game and still, you see a cash shop with a huge P2W potential.
People were crying about the EA's BF2 loot boxes and yet, we see a ... 7000$ "palace" in this game.
Well deserved I guess. As long as some players want that ..."palace" , we will all see this kind of games popping up ..and in the end , nothing will change.
So ..
STOP GIVING MONEY TO SHITTY COMPANIES !!
As far as I know they are not selling any p2w items ...
That's why I said "with a huge P2W potential" .
I don't even know much about this game or the ... "items' they sell in the shop , but any company which adds items with a price tag of say 7k $ , it will always end up in the P2W category.
You cannot sell things for 7k$ which will not give the player any advantages. Period.
Apparently the castle is purely cosmetic and doesn't offer any advantages. Outrageously expensive, but not p2w.
Ironically, WoW (which you claimed is pretty much the last bastion of non-p2w gaming) has actually implemented p2w (not just potential) mechanics with its in game store and tokens which you can buy with cash and sell on the auction house for in game gold.
Don't get all mad though; I would be the first person to complain about a pvp game with p2w mechanics, I just haven't seen them yet (hopefully nothing bad will be implemented!)
For anyone complaining... nothing is changing in terms of the shop outside of the currency, and retiring all the expensive stuff. For legal reasons they are changing from direct cash payment for (cosmetic, non-p2w) stuff to a cash payment to in-game currency for the same stuff.
The stuff you can buy can only be used in Eternal Kingdoms, which is just fancy large instanced housing. None of it can be used in the campaigns, where the actual gameplay happens.
For anyone complaining... nothing is changing in terms of the shop outside of the currency, and retiring all the expensive stuff. For legal reasons they are changing from direct cash payment for (cosmetic, non-p2w) stuff to a cash payment to in-game currency for the same stuff.
The stuff you can buy can only be used in Eternal Kingdoms, which is just fancy large instanced housing. None of it can be used in the campaigns, where the actual gameplay happens.
Developers say and promise a lot of stuff my friend. A prime example is examining Rift when it first went f2p. Now look at it. Things are always subject to change. Its not like I wont play the game, but the pre-cursor for me in all of this is the direct donation to guild bank thing. Things like that always end up influencing the game in one way or the other in the end.
WoW is looking good these days with it's no bullshit subscription model. Seriously, I'm considering starting it up again...
I am telling you, is the only game in this fucked up MMO genre, which is worth playing it.
I am playing it on and off since Legion started , and I am having a blast. There is no other MMO which can come close to WoW in ALL terms.
Plus, as you said , with "no bullshit subscription model" . 15$ a month and you get it FULL.
On a side note .. let's take a moment and let's imagine a world without Blizzard.
.... exactly !
Agreed. Though Blizzard includes a cash shop, I never get a pop-up in game pushing me to the shop, and I've never hit a point in the game where I thought "oh, they're doing this to get me to buy it in the shop, instead."
They really need to hold people that "donate" to a games production accountability. Seems like all these kickstarter mmos are just cash grabs that promise the world, dont deliver and end of selling things before they even have concept art made.
Charities are required to provide financial statements to their donors to make sure they're spending the money responsibly. Large crowd funded ventures are only exempt from this because crowd funding is a new concept and the law hasn't gotten around to them yet, and it probably won't until a major disaster happens.
By the time a major disaster does happen, it'll be too late for all these other disasters in the making. Oh well, a fool and his money are soon parted.
Comments
LOL.... ESO destroys it in every content, combat, class depth, customization, options of how to play and ability to get stuff done quickly, graphics, sound, animation, beautiful world, awesome quests with story and meaning, puzzles and nice lore and surprises behind them, NPCs that make a believable realistic world, bards singing real songs in the pub, chatter between neighbors, all of them with voiced over lines and choices to be had in conversation, can go on and on.
People like you that say WOW is the ONLY one are brainwashed and are why MMOs are in such bad shape, no matter how good games are you will always go back to your addiction.
GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!
I can think alternate ways this could be managed, they chose the easiest route.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
How can anyone think that after all the effort they obviously put in to this monetary system they won't add "convenience" items or things that can be used in campaigns. I haven't played it yet but does the game suck so bad that even before the game is anywhere near being released they are already coming up with alternate ways to drain players of money?
MurderHerd
By the time a major disaster does happen, it'll be too late for all these other disasters in the making. Oh well, a fool and his money are soon parted.
They've got a 10k castle for the highest backer tier too if I recall
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
and....
"To help with personal Crown purchases, a new "whale wallet" function will be added"
I don't have an issue with cash shops in a b2p or f2p game. How else is the game supposed to keep going without a monthly subscription?
It is the escalating prices, coupled with the move from cosmetics to advantage items in these cash shops that are ruining this branch of mmo's.
All I see happening now is a series of games effectively ruining these models, harming the whole b2p/f2p sector. Even if a completely cosmetic only cash shop f2p game launched now, players quite rightly would just be wondering when the first b2win items would start to appear in the shop.
1) As a side note for those not aware - a 'game currency' is a legal requirement if they are 'officially' operating in Europe
https://web.archive.org/web/20161220210314/http://crowfall.com:80/en/news/store-credit-changes-for-eu/
...and 2) Folks you are (again, as usual) wrongly assuming way too much while knowing too little - or nothing - about the game; It's the same all over the internet, I guess people are hungry for some kind of collective psychotherapy or "OMGLOLOZ!11! Did he say THAT?" kind of drama. We are talking about fluff for instanced personal housing, cosmetics and such; You know, milking whales the right way.One of the reasons, possibly THE reason, for removing anything above $200 from the shop is that they actually were NOT selling these, while continuously taking lots of heat, type of what we see here: people go to the shop, see big numbers and go wild; Especially speaking of the infamous $7k castle (also known as "WTF!$7k??lol!" on the interwebz), I am aware of one or maybe two sold since Kickstarter in March 2015(!), none this year and likely none in 2016.
There is a number of important details that differs Crowfall from Star Citizen or R.I.P. Shroud of the Avatar. Say, you will see that lots of items in the cash shop are barely on the level of the concept art or greyboxes (the very first phase of creating a 3D model), and they are "hibernating" in that state for years already; That is simple consequence of Crowfall team being dedicated to actually creating the game, and not developing the cash shop - they are using their manpower the way they should.
That approach is clearly reflected on the state of the game, and especially on their pledgemeter (you can see budget breakdown here); Namely, since Kickstarter, they got only a bit more than $2M from pledges - that would be people buying stuff from the shop, pre-purchasing the game etc. - which should be compared to $20M total budget, and especially to similar breakdowns for other games/companies.
Before you ask:
It's simply for making money, if whales are willing to give you $10k for (damn overpriced if you ask me) Kickstarter package full of fluff and toys, then let them do so; They sold 15 or 16 of these during KS(!), and I can only try to enter the head of someone willing to drop that kind of money on a video game, anyway I can try.
One of crucial design promises, repeated a million times so far, is that players will be able to totally ignore their, or anyone else's, Kingdoms and play the game the way they want. What are the motifs of whales / EK owners? I guess showing off, vanity, housing/cosmetics, potential to attract and control thousands of players on their private server, tax them, play with the economy, maybe host some PvP tournaments / arenas / guild wars, fame, potentially making money (including real world cash?) depending on how it all develops... these would be off the top of my head.
I don't even know much about this game or the ... "items' they sell in the shop , but any company which adds items with a price tag of say 7k $ , it will always end up in the P2W category.
You cannot sell things for 7k$ which will not give the player any advantages. Period.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
They are clearly not paying attention to the mmorpg community and the development of the business, "we are sick and tired of CASHSHOP GAMES and their fucking buy this for cosmetics, what the fuck is that shit all about? U SHOULD AS A COMPLETE GAME have cosmetic options in the first place, its as much part of the game as being able to move your character around, so next thing is, if you want spell effects buy it in the cashshop? GTFO thank god i never backed this game
Apparently the castle is purely cosmetic and doesn't offer any advantages. Outrageously expensive, but not p2w.
Ironically, WoW (which you claimed is pretty much the last bastion of non-p2w gaming) has actually implemented p2w (not just potential) mechanics with its in game store and tokens which you can buy with cash and sell on the auction house for in game gold.
Don't get all mad though; I would be the first person to complain about a pvp game with p2w mechanics, I just haven't seen them yet (hopefully nothing bad will be implemented!)
What idiots.
The stuff you can buy can only be used in Eternal Kingdoms, which is just fancy large instanced housing. None of it can be used in the campaigns, where the actual gameplay happens.
Also, this is all exactly what they promised in the Kickstarter.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/crowfall/crowfall-throne-war-pc-mmo/faqs
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