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[Spoilers] Star Wars - The Last Jedi - Your Thoughts
cameltosis
Member LegendaryPosts: 3,847
Hi all,
So, I caught the midnight screening of the new star wars movie last night in the UK. It was quite nice as they put on a double-bill, so watched Force Awakens then Last Jedi at midnight. Was a fun experience and I always love opening nights for SW movies, so many people get dressed up so it's a really great atmosphere.
But, the film.....
I'm a big SW fan. I've liked every movie they've released, even episode 1. Sure, Jar-Jar is irritating and Hayden couldn't act, but I could overlook small things like that because the overall movies were still fun. Not the new one.
My main issues:
I just don't know how they got so many things wrong in a single movie. There were parts I enjoyed and I'm a fan of bright and colourful sci-fi, but it was really painful to watch at times.
I'd love to hear your thoughts, especially those who enjoyed the movie.
So, I caught the midnight screening of the new star wars movie last night in the UK. It was quite nice as they put on a double-bill, so watched Force Awakens then Last Jedi at midnight. Was a fun experience and I always love opening nights for SW movies, so many people get dressed up so it's a really great atmosphere.
But, the film.....
I'm a big SW fan. I've liked every movie they've released, even episode 1. Sure, Jar-Jar is irritating and Hayden couldn't act, but I could overlook small things like that because the overall movies were still fun. Not the new one.
My main issues:
- The force is now ridiculous. Yoda can create thunderstorms on Luke's planet in order to burn down a tree. Luke can project his mind across the galaxy and have a lightsaber fight with Kylo Ren in his incorporeal form. Leia can survive in space and fly. Rey becomes a jedi in about 5 days. Snoke is crazy powerful and links Rey's and Ren's minds, but can't notice his apprentice about to kill him.
- Finn is redundant. He achieves absolutely nothing the whole film - all his missions fail and the rebels are no better off for anything he's done.
- Lots of pointless additions - the fat birds on Luke's island, the caretakers, the casino, Benico del Toro
- Finn's mission is fucked on time scales - he's supposedly away from the rebel fleet for 18 hours, but in that time he manages to fly through hyperspace to a new planet, trek through a city to a casino, search it, get arrested, get put in prison, breakout, race those stupid llamas, escape the patrols and then fly back....
- I got the feeling throughout the film that they were consciously trying to avoid copying old films, and they almost succeeded.....but then they decided to copy Hoth right at the end.....
- Talking of which, the speeders used in the Hoth copy achieve nothing. They don't kill any walkers, don't destroy the cannon....they just die. Also, there were a few hundred soldiers defending the base, only about 30 survive, but you don't see the rest die...
- The whole film is basically about the rebels being chased by the new order fleet, which whilst it is massive, super powerful, has crazy big weapons, is apparently just marginally slower than everything in the rebel fleet, preventing them from shooting the rebels. From small to big cruisers, even the titanic dreadnaught.....all just marginally slower..... /facepalm
- Snoke and his kinky bondage troupe
I just don't know how they got so many things wrong in a single movie. There were parts I enjoyed and I'm a fan of bright and colourful sci-fi, but it was really painful to watch at times.
I'd love to hear your thoughts, especially those who enjoyed the movie.
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Comments
They fused all the cannon away.
The Empire are tactically stupid.
Snokes is...well who knows the story treats him like crap.
The Force is now just Space Wizards.
Here is a splicer...now hate him or not? Not sure what he did or why.
Rey is a master jedi in 3 easy steps
Fynn is boring.
They pilot guy is no Han Solo.
Welcome to the Casino...my name is Bond..James...who cares....
They glasses monster that knows everyone in the galaxy seems to be great at multi tasking.
There does seem to be quite a divide in opinion over this film, but for some reason a lot of the reviewers seem focused on missed expectations or disgruntled old-star wars fans not being happy with the handover to this new generation.
Hardly anyone seems to talk about the actual problems with the film and the story itself! I didn't mind the handover to the new generation (even if Daisy still can't act) or missed expectations, I just really struggle to overlook really obvious problems.
For example, when the rebels are fleeing their fleet down onto the planet in 30-odd transport ships. Their reasoning was that the New Order's sensors were only tracking the main Rebel ship. Are you serious? A massive New Order fleet consisting of lots of ships, including the largest and most advanced ship in the New Order (Snokes ship), basically just within weapons range, and you're telling me they can only track one ship at a time?
I can suspend my disbelief for a lot of things, but you can't convince me that the military organisation that controls the majority of the galaxy is unable to spot basic transport vehicles leaving a ship that they've been pursuing for days.
The Kylo / Ren twist where they killed Snoke was pretty cool. Easily explained away by the fact that Snoke was super focused on reading Ren's mind to the point of ignoring the physical world around him. I do wish we knew more about Snoke and how he rose to his position before he died but what did we know about the origins of Palpatine and the empire based on episodes 4-6? Just as little when Vader threw him down that shaft.
Either way it's kind of cool to see a less mysterious villain be the main antagonist. We actually know quite a bit about Kylo so it makes his character seem more human and the entire fight more relatable now than it has ever been in previous Star Wars.
I appreciated that Rey's parentage held no surprising twist. All of Star Wars lore seems to be steeped in important characters having relations to other important characters. The fact that a nobody is now the main protagonist of the series adds a cool new element.
I think the main thing I really love about these two films is they are a new beginning for the series. New main antagonist, new main protagonist, the resistance is all but annihilated, the republic is straight gone, and they are facing a powerful enemy but that enemy was also kind of cut down to size in this film as well. Nothing but potential for the future of this series and I think they did a good job of making the characters, human, relatable, and getting us kind of invested in their plight.
The point of these last to films has seemed to be to set up an entirely new storyline the can continue on from while still acknowledging the older characters and the consequences of their actions in the original trilogy. It does feel like the Republic being blown up invalidates almost everything the original characters did in the first trilogy but I can appreciate it kind of had to be done for the universe to still be in conflict / interesting. Overall I think Disney is actually doing a good job.
The Leia scene was kind of dumb. Even though he character has walked through space with Han having no protection before. (Asteroid scene in Empire Strikes Back anyone?) It wasn't a huge deal to me that prevented me from enjoying the rest of the film. Not that Star Wars has ever had any dumb things that make no sense before:
It was also kind of dumb that they built up Pharasma and Snoke as these huge bad guys and had them die easily. Kind of like... Boba Fett.
These films are as good or better than the original trilogy but they don't have the benefit of having mind blowing effects that put most films made before and even a bit after to shame. Nothing will ever live up to the expectations of fanboys, but if you can take Star Wars off a golden pedestal and see them for the flawed and imperfect but still very enjoyable films they are.... I think there is a lot of room to enjoy these last three films.
Things wrong with that scene:
1. If you freeze solid the second you step into space why are they stepping into an "asteroid" with exposed skin.
2. How are things living on this asteroid which has no apparent atmosphere?
3. What kind of food source is there to sustain a creature that size on an asteroid that appears devoid of life?
Yet this is from the movie many fanboys refer to as the "Best Star Wars movie ever." The Empire Strikes Back.
If people held the original trilogy to the same standards they held the Disney movies, they would hate them.
That particular scene (destroying the death star) was so ridiculous they made an entire movie to help explain it. I agree with the asteroid atmosphere issue though, that has always bothered me.
There are just too many dumb things to list out with TLJ. Yes, the original trilogy had some dumb stuff in it too, but it was on a much smaller scale than TLJ.
My current rankings of Star War films, from best to worst:
1) Return of the Jedi
2) A New Hope
3) Rogue One
4) The Force Awakens
5) Revenge of the Sith
6) Empire Strikes Back
7) The Phantom Menace
8) Attack of the Clones
9) The Last Jedi
The Last Jedi had good special effects and is a good setup for the next film......thats it. Terrible story, full of holes and terrible acting/scripting made it worse than everything else in my opinion. I know the story in Force Awakens lacked originality, but at least it made sense and flowed properly! I know that Hayden Christensen was a poor choice for Anakin and he couldn't act, but neither can Daisy, yet we forgive her!
I just feel that whilst every star wars film has specific failings, TLJ fails across the board.
It has an amazing opening few scenes, Utapau is awesome, the wookie stuff is great and it has, of course, the greatest lightsaber battle in the entire Star Wars franchise. Ewan McGregor also becomes the ultimate jedi in my opinion, such an awesome actor (when i first started growing my hair 4 years ago, it was in imitation of his obi-wan look from this film.....yeh, I have no imagination!)
OK, so I was about to start listing my issues, but now I just want to watch the movie again!
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
Sad to see it go, but it was needed and no one was able to tell better stories than the expanded universe authors and all those stories have been told.
Love it or hate Disney just basically said, we are making Star Wars for a new generation (the millennial's kids) sorry boomers and Gen Xs who grew up on Star Wars.
I don't care, I still have my huge collection of expanded universe books.
I agree that there is no longer any care taken to stay true to the lore.
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1. Return of the Jedi
I consider this scene the best scene in any Star Wars movie:
The rest of the movie was also pretty enjoyable. Lots of good battle scenes with some pretty major plot points mixed in. And I personally didn't hate the Ewoks so it lost no points from me on that.
2. The Force Awakens
It was just a fun movie. Action, humor, etc. The plot was recycled in a lot of parts for sure but it went it's own way too. Didn't feel like rewatching A New Hope much at all to me.
3. The Last Jedi
I really didn't like Luke's portrayal early on but I love the way he went out. And I love how different the Star Wars Universe feels now. I like how Kylo Ren is now the main villain and he's a villain who actually feels human / who we know a bit about. And I think the throne room fight was easily the best Star Wars fight ever in terms of cool factor (Though it obviously doesn't carry the emotional weight of the RotJ fight I posted). I might revisit this depending on what happens in Episode 9 but I personally loved it.
4. A New Hope
Really not that much cool stuff happens in this film but it does have a few cool scenes and introduces a lot of great characters. It also ends on a pretty high note. Great film to bring people into the franchise.
5. Rogue One
I felt like it built a great cast, told a good story, and was overall really enjoyable to watch but personally I can't say I enjoy watching all the characters you spend the whole movie to get me attached to get blown up, even if I understand why and agree with that choice from a storytelling perspective.
6. The Empire Strikes Back
Watching the heros flip back and forth between hiding, running, and getting their asses kicked for an entire movie isn't my idea of a fun time. I can appreciate it's gravity in the storyline but I never really enjoyed it that much.
7. The Phantom Menace
Say what you will about Jar Jar. It had podracing and the Darth Maul fight which were fun to watch. A lot more than I can say for the other two.
8. Attack of The Clones
"I will be the most powerful jedi ever!" "I hate sand!" It's an awkward non-enjoyable love movie where it isn't even that obvious what the hell Padame saw in him. Obi-Wan and seeing clone troops in action were the only enjoyable parts of this movie.
9. Revenge of The Sith
The plot of this movie was so horrible it kind of drowned out any enjoyable parts for me. Anakin's fall to the darkside, was such a 180 it made entirely no sense. One second he's saying "He must stand trial!" later that day he's hacking younglings down because... reasons. Leia's space scene was 10 times more realistic than his fall to the darkside and it didn't take 3 movies to lead up to it. And all this "From my point of view the Jedi are evil" nonsense. No. Characters like Darth Vader are made from pure rage. They know they're evil they just don't care because they hate everyone and want them all to die. Stoic evil badasses like vader don't come from whiny emo bastards who are trying to morally justify hacking down five year olds.
2 and 3 could have been great movies if Anakin was a likable Jedi who was shaken to his core by some act of great betrayal either by the Jedi Council of the republic that shifted him to his evil outlook when he is consumed by rage and decides he cares about nothing but revenge. Instead he was an annoying crybaby up until his completely forced feeling illogical fall. That someone could say Revenge of the Sith was the 2nd or 3rd best Star Wars ever but The Last Jedi was the worst...
I'm no third wave feminist but powerful women on the screen clearly bother you a lot more than they do me.
That's part of the reason I really enjoy Kylo Ren is a villian. Episodes 1-3 do nothing to humanize Vader for me because not only do I hate Anakin in 2-3 but how he became Vader makes no sense. Young anakin, emo-Anakin, and Vader feel like three separate characters. With Kylo Ren we know he was always conflicted and he was put in a situation that came across as a great betrayal. Someone he trusted literally standing over him with a lightsaber debating killing him. As Rey said "His choice wasn't made yet." His fall to the darkside just seems so much more logical and believable.
I think the only part of the movie I enjoyed was this:
Fairly sure Lucas didn't intend for me to enjoy that scene.
Firstly, powerful women on screen don't bother me at all, the opposite is usually true. But, that sort of thinking doesn't even enter my mind. I'm curious how you arrived at that conclusion based on my post?
On the revenge comments, I can totally see your point. It's why Revenge is only 5th on my list - the Anakin role was really badly written and acted, as was Padme's. That is a very specific failing of the film (and also applies to attack of the clones). However, when you take a broader view of revenge, you have Ewan McGregor acting his ass off, being the best jedi we've ever seen on screen. He kicks ass all the way through the movie. You have some really big battles. You have order 66. You have the greatest lightsaber battle out of all 9 movies. And, the plot moves at a very fast pace.
So, sure, Anakin and Padme suck, but the rest of the film was pretty damn great.
Compare that to TLJ. The whole story sucked. Not just a little bit, like Anakin and Padme, but the entirety of it. Really badly written and pretty badly acted by most people in the film. The fight scenes were pretty lacklustre too. The lore was twisted all to shit. TLJ only had two things going for it: good special effects, and a transition of the story from old to new.
Thats why I put it last. All other SW films have good special effects, most have superior stories and all have superior acting.
Finally, I should also state that I don't actually rate any of the stories particularly highly. George Lucas created an awesome universe, but his stories are all pretty generic. His ability to write dialogue sucks too and for some reason that "tradition" seems to have passed onto the new writers. When you get good actors in the movies, they seem to be able to make it work, but when you get a mediocre actor like Hayden, or Daisy, the failings in the writing become more obvious. Its why I feel bad for the good actors - John Boyega has actually impressed me with his acting, yet he was given a terrible storyline that was entirely redundant in TLJ. They could have made much more of him.
(NB: I'll still end up buying TLJ on blu-ray. Despite me thinking it's a bad film, it's still Star Wars and I'm still a fan, so I'll end up watching it a lot!)
"I will be, the most powerful Jedi ever!"
"Do it!"
"From my point of view the jedi are evil!"
And I do agree Ewan McGregor was the highlight of the prequels but sometimes you can't dress up a line like "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" as anything but the crap that it is.
Given the fact Anakin is supposed to be the central character of the prequels, the fact that adult Anakin (Who I consider to be a separate character from child anakin and Darth Vader because none of those three characters share anything in common) is literally the worst / most annoying character of the series (Yes, worse than freaking Jar Jar because at least Jar Jar fills the role of comedic relief better than Anakin fills his) absolutely ruins 2 and 3.
I actually find many of the TLJ characters to be likeable and the films to be overall enjoyable. I felt the prequels was us being lead through a parade of unlikable/relatable main characters by the only two central characters that ever were likable. Qui Gon and Obi Wan. With the exception of those characters I think the only other good ones in the entire series were Dooku and Windu. Even Yoda I found to be intensely annoying with nothing to say but trite nonsense for half his dialogue.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Yes, I think solo might pull me in. But we have a few other movies to take up the movie space. Several cbm are looking like fun to me. Go Infinity wars
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"