Visionary Realms, something great will come.

delete5230

First and foremost, I'm not kissing butt.  I call everything like I see it.  If I detect anything negative I say it.  Often this leads to my demise and I'll sacrifice my self for the greater good.  Why?....Because I have great passion for mmorpg's.  

Pantheon is my #1 go to game.  Sure, I developed an unhealthy hype for this game.  For me along with Ashes of Creation and Saga of Lucimia they're the only true mmorpg's being created.  But it goes far beyond simply being true mmorpg's.  All three have something else in common..... Keywords "Not self absorbed".  They care about us.



For now I would like to talk about my favorite Pantheon and Visionary Realms.  They call themselves Visionaries, however boastful this may sound, if its true its true and nothing wrong with that. 

Brad's team has an extreme ability to look deep inside the players thought's soul and feelings much like a 3D artist can look at a complex object, memorize it and draw it several days later.  It's a talent no words can describe.  He went on to prove this twice with EverQuest1 and Vanguard Saga of Heroes. 

It gets deeper:  
Everquest1 was his opening debut set in a time where all tools used to create were crude, yet he pulled it off with only examples such as Ultima Online.  Maybe not completely original, he must of thought " I could do way better".  Understand he only had crude tool's to work with.  

Years later focusing on his creation of EQ1 he became even more obsessed, possibility to the point most would go mad.  Only he  know's the true obsession.  This is when he assembled a team to start Sigil Games Online.  Being stubborn and knowing what people really want he began Vanguard Saga of Heroes....... Everything was going well for sometime, but something unexpectedly happened.  The business side of everything went wrong.  Here is a guy focusing on genius and everything outside twisted a dream.  

So where do we stand ?...... Were waiting for this group of people to give us obsessive genius and magic and they'll not let business stop it again !  



I would like to clear something up before I leave you with this:  
I used the words "Not self absorbed" and "stubborn" in this article.  You have to understand he's using his stubborn nature to give us what we really want.  He really cares about us and he is stubborn about it.  

This is why I put all my eggs in this basket   

Azaron_Nightblade

I looked at the title... went "I bet that's another Delete thread". And look and behold, I was right

Mendel

For me, Pantheon seems to be 'more of the same'.  That's not what I want.  That doesn't evolve the genre.

Brad was involved in developing two games in the past, EQ1 and Vanguard.  Both were very influential within the industry.  But, both games were incredibly similar.  The early visuals and information from Pantheon suggest very strongly that he's making another very similar game.  Maybe it's the only kind of game he is capable of making.  I doubt that, though.  He's probably tied to old ideas due to money issues.

I really don't want to be in another group pounding on a single critter, with specialists keeping everyone alive and preventing interruptions to the 6-on-1 'fight'.  That's too clean, too predictable.  A little more chaos, please.

If a game has to keep the 6-on-1 model, give me something beyond combat and crafting systems to interact with the world.  An abstraction of a legal system; a means for players (and GMs) to build social events; a system for religion and interacting with the various gods.  Even a simple way to evaluate an in-game object's aesthetic value and a simple mechanism for a group of players to collect these scores into a unique value (a crafting competition).  A reason (and tools) to support role playing would be nice, too.

Improve the genre.  The 'cashing in on the genre' will follow.

Neanderthal

"...and, lo, Saint Brad looked out upon the multitudes and saw that there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.  Thence it was he set out to right the wrongs and bring peace and joy to all the world and to make all things good and wholesome again..."

Mackaveli44

Mendel said:

For me, Pantheon seems to be 'more of the same'.  That's not what I want.  That doesn't evolve the genre.

Brad was involved in developing two games in the past, EQ1 and Vanguard.  Both were very influential within the industry.  But, both games were incredibly similar.  The early visuals and information from Pantheon suggest very strongly that he's making another very similar game.  Maybe it's the only kind of game he is capable of making.  I doubt that, though.  He's probably tied to old ideas due to money issues.

I really don't want to be in another group pounding on a single critter, with specialists keeping everyone alive and preventing interruptions to the 6-on-1 'fight'.  That's too clean, too predictable.  A little more chaos, please.

If a game has to keep the 6-on-1 model, give me something beyond combat and crafting systems to interact with the world.  An abstraction of a legal system; a means for players (and GMs) to build social events; a system for religion and interacting with the various gods.  Even a simple way to evaluate an in-game object's aesthetic value and a simple mechanism for a group of players to collect these scores into a unique value (a crafting competition).  A reason (and tools) to support role playing would be nice, too.

Improve the genre.  The 'cashing in on the genre' will follow.

Then clearly, Pantheon will not be your cup of tea.  There's plenty of games out there was are more action oriented and that sounds like what you're looking for. 

For a small development studio such as theirs, they have to have a foundation to build upon and if they are successful at all, financially, than they can and will expand on what they have, I'm sure.  If you've watched any of their streams or read any of their posts, they have many ideas in which they want to do but need time and finances to get it done. 

 If you played Vanguard, you'd know they had more than just combat and crafting.  Vanguard was one, if not, the best  exploration aspect mmo, the world felt like a world.  Exploration was huge, caves/dungeons went suuuuuuper deep down, not these kiddy made instances that most mmo's do nowadays that a 2 yr old could draw up. It had a huge imaginative world and it sounds like Pantheon may be going in that same direction. They're not trying to make some action crazed/action packed game that it sounds like you're looking for and I like that they're doing that.  It makes group focus much more important and fun and community driven, something mmo's absolutely NEED, something mmo's have been missing for many years. 

Mendel

Mackaveli44 said:

Mendel said:

For me, Pantheon seems to be 'more of the same'.  That's not what I want.  That doesn't evolve the genre.

Brad was involved in developing two games in the past, EQ1 and Vanguard.  Both were very influential within the industry.  But, both games were incredibly similar.  The early visuals and information from Pantheon suggest very strongly that he's making another very similar game.  Maybe it's the only kind of game he is capable of making.  I doubt that, though.  He's probably tied to old ideas due to money issues.

I really don't want to be in another group pounding on a single critter, with specialists keeping everyone alive and preventing interruptions to the 6-on-1 'fight'.  That's too clean, too predictable.  A little more chaos, please.

If a game has to keep the 6-on-1 model, give me something beyond combat and crafting systems to interact with the world.  An abstraction of a legal system; a means for players (and GMs) to build social events; a system for religion and interacting with the various gods.  Even a simple way to evaluate an in-game object's aesthetic value and a simple mechanism for a group of players to collect these scores into a unique value (a crafting competition).  A reason (and tools) to support role playing would be nice, too.

Improve the genre.  The 'cashing in on the genre' will follow.

Then clearly, Pantheon will not be your cup of tea.  There's plenty of games out there was are more action oriented and that sounds like what you're looking for. 

For a small development studio such as theirs, they have to have a foundation to build upon and if they are successful at all, financially, than they can and will expand on what they have, I'm sure.  If you've watched any of their streams or read any of their posts, they have many ideas in which they want to do but need time and finances to get it done. 

 If you played Vanguard, you'd know they had more than just combat and crafting.  Vanguard was one, if not, the best  exploration aspect mmo, the world felt like a world.  Exploration was huge, caves/dungeons went suuuuuuper deep down, not these kiddy made instances that most mmo's do nowadays that a 2 yr old could draw up. It had a huge imaginative world and it sounds like Pantheon may be going in that same direction. They're not trying to make some action crazed/action packed game that it sounds like you're looking for and I like that they're doing that.  It makes group focus much more important and fun and community driven, something mmo's absolutely NEED, something mmo's have been missing for many years. 

I've no idea how you came up with 'action-oriented' from my post.   A system is something abstracted and coded, exploration isn't that, and size of the world/environment/zone doesn't make it immersive.  Instances exist in most every game post EQ1, once you consider that zones function as instances only with a different name.  It's simply a way to sub-divide all that game space into chunks general purpose computers can deal with.

What I said above is that Brad may only be making a game which is similar to those he's made before.  There appears to be little chance of it pushing the boundaries with what we think of as an RPG, or giving players something new to do within an MMORPG.  I don't see it being very innovative, or revolutionary, or even different.  It will be the same model I've played for 20 years now, and I'm tired of it.  If more of that is what "MMO's absolutely NEED", there's always EQ1, even if it has failed to retain that community it once had.

Will Pantheon be successful?  I don't know, but I suspect it will have a brief lifespan with a limited customer base.  Does that constitute a success?  Do those who stand to gain financially from this game consider that a success?  Does it justify the expense of the development?  I fully intend to give Pantheon a limited try within the parameters of my personal fiscal ability in hopes that it will surprise me in some little way.

Kajidourden

Even as a backer I don't see this going well.  There's too much old and very little new.  Based on what we've seen with visuals, etc it's basically just Eq1, which anyone can go play right now, so.....yeah.

delete5230

For all the people that think this will be just another hum-drum move forward fight another monster, I have news !..... It's not.  

What most podcast videos show is basic combat and team work.  That was simply all they wanted to show..... Now VR is on a mission to display their graphics. 

They'll not show their hand yet.  However they gave brief subtle hints.  In one video they showed a stone obelisk with strange powers, another they showed a guard dynamically go and get friends. Another they showed brutal weather effects.  In another they showed the team seriously trapped in a fortress with seeming no way out.  This is all but a small taste.

 I really believe most is kept secret for now.   

Wizardry

From EQ1>EQ2 and VG i did not see any real change,for some that is ok not for me.

So until see that Brad who is leading the team can change or expand his thinking,then i expect more of the same old.Are people seriously ready to play same old new skin,to me why bother,just because it's new?

I am not in the least giving up on this game or even saying there is no chance but i am very skeptical based on the past.

I believe in the whole package however i still feel character class design and combat is the key component that has to be done very well with some good solid depth.Perfect example looking back,i don't wnt to see gear progression like full of +2 stats,then ful of +5 stats until i see +250 stats because the mobs will change with those numbers meaning they are no more important than having +1 stat on level 1 mobs.

So what i want to see is good spells and abilities that don't just scale with the  mobs but ones with relative timers so that players can think and create their own combat styles instead of just going for Legendary spell and +250 STR gear.Gear progression is a simple easy design and one that caters to those Wowish type gamer that all they care about is loot.Bosses should be very long timers and not hidden away in instances,i can go on and on but my poijnt is Brad has not proven to me to get away from these weak game designs that were ok 15 years ago are not ok with me now.

Dullahan

The genre has lost its way. At this point just having an open dangerous world that requires cooperative play would be all the innovation I need.

Thebeasttt

OP probably reads his own posts 10x more than the rest of us combined.