I suspect it would need to be a VR title to reach WoW levels again.
That was kind of on the list, but why do you say you suspect it?
I assume he means because a new interface is the easiest way to create a new experience to players.
A VR MMO would need to make far fewer new mechanics to feel very differently from older games and give that awesome experience of something new.
It is certainly not the only way but any MMO that want to reach Wows peak levels would need to offer a new experience to people. Wow did this by getting players from other genres and Blizz fans that never played EQ or a similar games before.
You can't do that anymore, most players that would be interesting trying a new MMO have already played others before so you need to think rather different from the older games unless you use VR or AR to present the game differently.
You probably would need new combat mechanics, new character mechanics and a new way to feed players the story besides quests and DEs otherwise. Something that would feel like nothing you ever played before.
Any developer in today's market would be an idiot to cut out any platform. The real issue is making a game that is truly cross platform where everyone just plays together no matter what system you have. There are already a few that have stuck their toes into this but it isn't the main stream quite yet.
Look at it like this, how much sense does it make to lose out on getting those few million customers that don't own or want to own a console or a gaming PC. Not everyone wants to own every console and a PC.
It would be better to just call console what they are in today's market anyway, mid range gaming PC's. The only reason games run better on any system especially a console is because it was optimized to do so.
Optimization is the answer for all games in the future. If you can make a game that is optimized for any PC (consoles included in PC) then you would have something that could truly brig the gap and overtake the industry as you could sell to all customers no matter what they own.
So to answer the question no I don't think any game of the future will omit a massive customer base.
I sure hope some developers ignore your advice, in order to be truly cross platform you have to optimize the design to the lowest common denominator in hardware.
Consoles are low end PCs at best, heck a top end graphics card for a PC can cost a grand, mid range gaming PCs are in the $1500 to $2500 range, and as always, the PC you really want costs $4K.
One of the greatest hindrances to advancements in MMO/ PC gaming has been developers catering to the masses ever since WOW started the trend in 2004.
I suspect Star Citizen will require a fairly robust PC to run well, a trend I welcome even if not a backer of the game.
You’re making very little sense, considering any mmo before wow had the system requirements of a turtle. They didn’t even need discrete gpu. A big issue with games are the rising system requirements.
You up just want games to cater to you, unsurprisingly.
But, cutting out over half of the market is terrible for business.
Mid range gaming pc is like 800-1000 these days, BTW.
Budget PCs can be bought up to snuff with nothing but a GTx 1050 GPU upgrade, for MMOs, right now.
it will be multiplatform, console and pc are very close now, no reason not to make it multi platform, I actually expect to see wow on consoles as well, they would add two million subs if they brought it to console. Xbox one x has plenty of power to handle wow and ps5 will as well, so proably in 2-3 years, wow on consoles.
WoW level MMO? Well, considering they tried to make a WoW level MMO for the last 10 years and couldn't leads me to believe the next WoW level MMO won't be on PC. Or any other platform for that matter.
I suspect it would need to be a VR title to reach WoW levels again.
That was kind of on the list, but why do you say you suspect it?
I assume he means because a new interface is the easiest way to create a new experience to players.
A VR MMO would need to make far fewer new mechanics to feel very differently from older games and give that awesome experience of something new.
It is certainly not the only way but any MMO that want to reach Wows peak levels would need to offer a new experience to people. Wow did this by getting players from other genres and Blizz fans that never played EQ or a similar games before.
You can't do that anymore, most players that would be interesting trying a new MMO have already played others before so you need to think rather different from the older games unless you use VR or AR to present the game differently.
You probably would need new combat mechanics, new character mechanics and a new way to feed players the story besides quests and DEs otherwise. Something that would feel like nothing you ever played before.
I think with VR specifically though, that as a "new" medium has an uphill battle due to poor adoption right now. We'll see how the next couple years progress with all the new mobile sets releasing and the AR sets slated to release as well, but even at CES the one big AR device clocked in at 1000 dollars, I don't anticipate seeing tons of people rushing out for something untested.
I do agree, at some point, there might be an AR MMO that rises to the popularity of WoW, but in order for that to happen, it's highly unlikely it will be on the PC.
I suspect it would need to be a VR title to reach WoW levels again.
That was kind of on the list, but why do you say you suspect it?
I assume he means because a new interface is the easiest way to create a new experience to players.
A VR MMO would need to make far fewer new mechanics to feel very differently from older games and give that awesome experience of something new.
It is certainly not the only way but any MMO that want to reach Wows peak levels would need to offer a new experience to people. Wow did this by getting players from other genres and Blizz fans that never played EQ or a similar games before.
You can't do that anymore, most players that would be interesting trying a new MMO have already played others before so you need to think rather different from the older games unless you use VR or AR to present the game differently.
You probably would need new combat mechanics, new character mechanics and a new way to feed players the story besides quests and DEs otherwise. Something that would feel like nothing you ever played before.
I think with VR specifically though, that as a "new" medium has an uphill battle due to poor adoption right now. We'll see how the next couple years progress with all the new mobile sets releasing and the AR sets slated to release as well, but even at CES the one big AR device clocked in at 1000 dollars, I don't anticipate seeing tons of people rushing out for something untested.
I do agree, at some point, there might be an AR MMO that rises to the popularity of WoW, but in order for that to happen, it's highly unlikely it will be on the PC.
There already are a couple MMORPGs going the VR route:
Note there have been some significant updates since I made this video:
...and here is Orbus VR:
As far as reaching WoW-levels of popularity, I'm not sure VR would necessarily be a stone in that hat: at least, not yet.
While Oculus per Facebook may be aiming for a billion people in VR, even if you include mobile sets there is a long way to go.
As far as mechanics go, the biggest drawback is the setup time: it's much easier to turn on a monitor than to get in to a VR headset. Then you are totally cut off from the real world: I'm not always in the mood for this.
Otherwise, it is a very compelling experience, and for the right MMORPG (like the one in my signature) it could be a match made in heaven.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I suspect it would need to be a VR title to reach WoW levels again.
That was kind of on the list, but why do you say you suspect it?
I assume he means because a new interface is the easiest way to create a new experience to players.
A VR MMO would need to make far fewer new mechanics to feel very differently from older games and give that awesome experience of something new.
It is certainly not the only way but any MMO that want to reach Wows peak levels would need to offer a new experience to people. Wow did this by getting players from other genres and Blizz fans that never played EQ or a similar games before.
You can't do that anymore, most players that would be interesting trying a new MMO have already played others before so you need to think rather different from the older games unless you use VR or AR to present the game differently.
You probably would need new combat mechanics, new character mechanics and a new way to feed players the story besides quests and DEs otherwise. Something that would feel like nothing you ever played before.
I think with VR specifically though, that as a "new" medium has an uphill battle due to poor adoption right now. We'll see how the next couple years progress with all the new mobile sets releasing and the AR sets slated to release as well, but even at CES the one big AR device clocked in at 1000 dollars, I don't anticipate seeing tons of people rushing out for something untested.
I do agree, at some point, there might be an AR MMO that rises to the popularity of WoW, but in order for that to happen, it's highly unlikely it will be on the PC.
There already are a couple MMORPGs going the VR route:
...and here is Orbus VR:
As far as reaching WoW-levels of popularity, I'm not sure VR would necessarily be a stone in that hat: at least, not yet.
While Oculus per Facebook may be aiming for a billion people in VR, even if you include mobile sets there is a long way to go.
As far as mechanics go, the biggest drawback is the setup time: it's much easier to turn on a monitor than to get in to a VR headset. Then you are totally cut off from the real world: I'm not always in the mood for this.
Otherwise, it is a very compelling experience, and for the right MMORPG (like the one in my signature) it could be a match made in heaven.
I'm aware of the current plans for MMOs for VR, but nothing at this point will really drive people to the systems. Space flight only games really aren't that popular.
The new sets "released" at CES will help a little in bridging some gaps between a more casual playstyle and easier to setup system. Cordless, standalone (no cell phone required) and built in room scale and tracking are what people NEED in the least to get VR off the ground.
The Vive Pro is alright, but only a half measure. The Mirage Solo is the ideal format but lower on power. The Huawei VR2 is probably the most ideal system, but does require a PC or phone to tether to (but it tethers through a cable and you don't have to stick it to your face)
We're still at least a year off from any standalone AR sets that would be capable of any real gaming, and probably another year off from that to drop the price enough for any mass market appeal.
The question of whether or not it will be on PC is beyond question, it will. The real question is whether or not it will be on console too, at present there are somewhere in the region of 70 million PS4's, less than half that for Xbox, its even possible that the Switch will take second place in terms of userbase on the console market, so the real question is whether or not the next 'big' MMO will be multi platform, which at present only one game is, and that is FFXIV:ARR, its the only game that spans both the PC and the PS4, which while games such as ESO are on console too, they are seperate entities and not actually multi platform, but even if you group all the consoles together, PS4, Switch and Xbox they represent but a fraction of the userbase that is the PC, even if you only counted the install base of Win 10 users which is less than half that of the Win 7 user base, though it will no doubt be interesting to see what happens in 2020 when support for Win7 finally ends as i have no doubt that it will have an effect on MMO's too as i doubt many (MMO's) will continue to support the platform either unless Microsoft extends support for it, just from the security aspects alone, which is a serious consideration for MMO's as hackers are always looking for a way in.
Yet Mobile outpaces PC in terms of ownership these days. In 2015 more people owned smartphones than they did a PC. I think the article is questioning whether, in the future, PCs will be taking a back seat to other types of devices, which may lead the way for new WoW types of successes?
I don't know what the future holds but a lot of companies are working on HMD that aren't tied to a "pc" per se. No idea if they'll come to fruition, but who knows?
We can only guess at the capabilities of smart phones in the future, but they aren't really a factor as most people do not use smart phones for games even, they'll use it for facebook or web browsing, facetime etc. but games beyond the candy crush variety, not so much which is a reason why its those kinds of 'apps' rather than actual games that are the most financially viable on the mobile market, i think there would have to be a significant advancement in the technology before that would change, though i think that advancement would also be reflected in the tech used in PC's, i do not think that its even going to be really about advancing storage or working memory in the things but more about how games or whatever can be streamed to it or how smart devices are able to utilise external resources, having a 'smart phone' that is a peripheral of a PC, even over distance would likely overcome many of the issues that smart devices have.
Dude. This was inaccurate in 2011, and certainly in 2016 - 2017.
Have you tried all of the following?:
Vendetta Online Banner Saga This War of Mine
None of these fit into "the candy crush variety". Even Elder Scrolls Legends, which might look like a "candy crush variety" if you squint hard enough, is streamed over Twitch via PC and has plenty of strategy going on.
I had a professor in international business say "mobile is the future" in 2014, and he was right.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
What do you all think? Will the PC get dethroned as the hardware of choice for MMOs or will PCs always be the platform of choice for MMO gamers?
they could probably put WoW on mobile since its graphics are so dated. at least a lite version of it that doesn't require that huge of a download.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
The question of whether or not it will be on PC is beyond question, it will. The real question is whether or not it will be on console too, at present there are somewhere in the region of 70 million PS4's, less than half that for Xbox, its even possible that the Switch will take second place in terms of userbase on the console market, so the real question is whether or not the next 'big' MMO will be multi platform, which at present only one game is, and that is FFXIV:ARR, its the only game that spans both the PC and the PS4, which while games such as ESO are on console too, they are seperate entities and not actually multi platform, but even if you group all the consoles together, PS4, Switch and Xbox they represent but a fraction of the userbase that is the PC, even if you only counted the install base of Win 10 users which is less than half that of the Win 7 user base, though it will no doubt be interesting to see what happens in 2020 when support for Win7 finally ends as i have no doubt that it will have an effect on MMO's too as i doubt many (MMO's) will continue to support the platform either unless Microsoft extends support for it, just from the security aspects alone, which is a serious consideration for MMO's as hackers are always looking for a way in.
Yet Mobile outpaces PC in terms of ownership these days. In 2015 more people owned smartphones than they did a PC. I think the article is questioning whether, in the future, PCs will be taking a back seat to other types of devices, which may lead the way for new WoW types of successes?
I don't know what the future holds but a lot of companies are working on HMD that aren't tied to a "pc" per se. No idea if they'll come to fruition, but who knows?
We can only guess at the capabilities of smart phones in the future, but they aren't really a factor as most people do not use smart phones for games even, they'll use it for facebook or web browsing, facetime etc. but games beyond the candy crush variety, not so much which is a reason why its those kinds of 'apps' rather than actual games that are the most financially viable on the mobile market, i think there would have to be a significant advancement in the technology before that would change, though i think that advancement would also be reflected in the tech used in PC's, i do not think that its even going to be really about advancing storage or working memory in the things but more about how games or whatever can be streamed to it or how smart devices are able to utilise external resources, having a 'smart phone' that is a peripheral of a PC, even over distance would likely overcome many of the issues that smart devices have.
Dude. This was inaccurate in 2011, and certainly in 2016 - 2017.
Have you tried all of the following?:
Vendetta Online Banner Saga This War of Mine
None of these fit into "the candy crush variety". Even Elder Scrolls Legends, which might look like a "candy crush variety" if you squint hard enough, is streamed over Twitch via PC and has plenty of strategy going on.
I had a professor in international business say "mobile is the future" in 2014, and he was right.
I don't think the two crowd mix though. People who are playing ESO, or FF14 won't suddenly go play Fire emblem Hero or Fate Grand Order. The vice versa is also true, people who play on mobile won't suddenly go play on PC.
I think the two community will stay diverge. Mobile is always more convenient and PC always have better hardware power and keyboard/mouse support.
WoW level MMO? Well, considering they tried to make a WoW level MMO for the last 10 years and couldn't leads me to believe the next WoW level MMO won't be on PC. Or any other platform for that matter.
I actually agree with this. "what" World of Warcraft level mmo?
Where millions of people are expected to be a part of the game.
There are only a few "super" mmo's (if one can call them that) coming down the pike and they're Asian.
Well, we'll "see" about Ashes of Creation.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
WoW level MMO? Well, considering they tried to make a WoW level MMO for the last 10 years and couldn't leads me to believe the next WoW level MMO won't be on PC. Or any other platform for that matter.
I actually agree with this. "what" World of Warcraft level mmo?
Where millions of people are expected to be a part of the game.
There are only a few "super" mmo's (if one can call them that) coming down the pike and they're Asian.
Well, we'll "see" about Ashes of Creation.
You sound surprised that you agreed with him.
I don't think it's necessarily about what's releasing as a mainstream focused MMO in the near future that reaches the "WoW" population size, but more so if the climate is right to see a new game grow to those heights not just in terms of population but also in terms of retention.
Just about every upcoming MMO is primarily a PC only MMO (at least at the beginning) which means every new MMO is not just competing with previous games, but each other too. None of them are conducive to getting those kinds of numbers.
The question of whether or not it will be on PC is beyond question, it will. The real question is whether or not it will be on console too, at present there are somewhere in the region of 70 million PS4's, less than half that for Xbox, its even possible that the Switch will take second place in terms of userbase on the console market, so the real question is whether or not the next 'big' MMO will be multi platform, which at present only one game is, and that is FFXIV:ARR, its the only game that spans both the PC and the PS4, which while games such as ESO are on console too, they are seperate entities and not actually multi platform, but even if you group all the consoles together, PS4, Switch and Xbox they represent but a fraction of the userbase that is the PC, even if you only counted the install base of Win 10 users which is less than half that of the Win 7 user base, though it will no doubt be interesting to see what happens in 2020 when support for Win7 finally ends as i have no doubt that it will have an effect on MMO's too as i doubt many (MMO's) will continue to support the platform either unless Microsoft extends support for it, just from the security aspects alone, which is a serious consideration for MMO's as hackers are always looking for a way in.
Yet Mobile outpaces PC in terms of ownership these days. In 2015 more people owned smartphones than they did a PC. I think the article is questioning whether, in the future, PCs will be taking a back seat to other types of devices, which may lead the way for new WoW types of successes?
I don't know what the future holds but a lot of companies are working on HMD that aren't tied to a "pc" per se. No idea if they'll come to fruition, but who knows?
We can only guess at the capabilities of smart phones in the future, but they aren't really a factor as most people do not use smart phones for games even, they'll use it for facebook or web browsing, facetime etc. but games beyond the candy crush variety, not so much which is a reason why its those kinds of 'apps' rather than actual games that are the most financially viable on the mobile market, i think there would have to be a significant advancement in the technology before that would change, though i think that advancement would also be reflected in the tech used in PC's, i do not think that its even going to be really about advancing storage or working memory in the things but more about how games or whatever can be streamed to it or how smart devices are able to utilise external resources, having a 'smart phone' that is a peripheral of a PC, even over distance would likely overcome many of the issues that smart devices have.
Dude. This was inaccurate in 2011, and certainly in 2016 - 2017.
Have you tried all of the following?:
Vendetta Online Banner Saga This War of Mine
None of these fit into "the candy crush variety". Even Elder Scrolls Legends, which might look like a "candy crush variety" if you squint hard enough, is streamed over Twitch via PC and has plenty of strategy going on.
I had a professor in international business say "mobile is the future" in 2014, and he was right.
I don't think the two crowd mix though. People who are playing ESO, or FF14 won't suddenly go play Fire emblem Hero or Fate Grand Order. The vice versa is also true, people who play on mobile won't suddenly go play on PC.
I think the two community will stay diverge. Mobile is always more convenient and PC always have better hardware power and keyboard/mouse support.
I'm a living counterexample to that. I enjoy both mobile and PC; I don't really go for consoles anymore (but I did in my 20s). I enjoy both "mobile games" as well as "PC games", and find the lines are becoming increasingly blurred. I enjoy a deep simulation-strategy experience like RimWorld or Massive Chalice on PC, and I also like being able to carry rich RPGs like Banner Saga with me on the go or logging in to a CCG like Elder Scrolls Legends from wherever I happen to be. I play Vendetta Online on PC, mobile, and in VR: there's your "cross platform" category from the article.
Again, see my above list and you'll find that none will stringently fit into the proverbial 'mobile games category'; from my experience this has been a vital convergence for a majority of this decade.
PC's and consoles are no longer distant cousins. A console is basically a PC, games are released simultaneously on all three. I don't know why any developer today wouldn't want to release their game on all three platforms - unless it's a console exclusive title used to push the hardware. I think it's silly to think modern MMOs won't be released on multiple platforms, considering most developers are already finding ways to port their PC MMOs to console, or creating new games with simplified controls that can be played on any of the three.
I disagree; I find that console and PC games tend to be quite different both in philosophy and implementation. A console is not a PC, and a gamepad is not a mouse and keyboard. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I prefer PC, however I'm only claiming that they are notably different.
A game like RimWorld could not work on a console because you need to be able to rapidly and accurately manipulate the screen. Ironically enough, I could see it working on tablets for this reason, although I believe it is a PC-only title.
A shooter on PC is significantly different than a shooter on console. Prior to games like "Halo" and "Goldeneye 64", no one was really sure a shooter would even work on console. Even though these titles proved they did (and became the most popular genre on consoles, even), they are significantly different in design from games like Quake or Counterstrike.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
WoW level MMO? Well, considering they tried to make a WoW level MMO for the last 10 years and couldn't leads me to believe the next WoW level MMO won't be on PC. Or any other platform for that matter.
I actually agree with this. "what" World of Warcraft level mmo?
Where millions of people are expected to be a part of the game.
There are only a few "super" mmo's (if one can call them that) coming down the pike and they're Asian.
Well, we'll "see" about Ashes of Creation.
You sound surprised that you agreed with him.
I don't think it's necessarily about what's releasing as a mainstream focused MMO in the near future that reaches the "WoW" population size, but more so if the climate is right to see a new game grow to those heights not just in terms of population but also in terms of retention.
Just about every upcoming MMO is primarily a PC only MMO (at least at the beginning) which means every new MMO is not just competing with previous games, but each other too. None of them are conducive to getting those kinds of numbers.
Nope not surprised.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
VR seems like it has lots of better uses than gaming sadly. I am more interested in something like the holo lens that just adds to the experience, but even with that, I'm hesitant to wear something on my head. I seem to get discomfiture easily when it comes to having something on my head.
I disagree; I find that console and PC games tend to be quite different both in philosophy and implementation. A console is not a PC, and a gamepad is not a mouse and keyboard. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I prefer PC, however I'm only claiming that they are notably different.
A game like RimWorld could not work on a console because you need to be able to rapidly and accurately manipulate the screen. Ironically enough, I could see it working on tablets for this reason, although I believe it is a PC-only title.
A shooter on PC is significantly different than a shooter on console. Prior to games like "Halo" and "Goldeneye 64", no one was really sure a shooter would even work on console. Even though these titles proved they did (and became the most popular genre on consoles, even), they are significantly different in design from games like Quake or Counterstrike.
It really depends on the controller, and the game system in general. For example, the switch is a console, with controllers and a touchscreen like a tablet. In that case, there wouldn't be very many games you couldn't make work.
Equally so with the PS4 controller, that has the touchpad in the middle. It is basically a trackpad and can be used like one, and is pretty accurate in general.
Then you have the steam controller that has two touchpad options, one where another analog should be. It would be great for some games, like RTS's but I am very much so not a fan at the moment despite trying my hardest to make many of my games work with it.
As far as inputs go, controllers are pretty comparable to the amount of keys applicable on a keyboard depending on the layout. I've seen gaming mice far more complicated in functionality with much less comfort.
I disagree; I find that console and PC games tend to be quite different both in philosophy and implementation. A console is not a PC, and a gamepad is not a mouse and keyboard. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I prefer PC, however I'm only claiming that they are notably different.
A game like RimWorld could not work on a console because you need to be able to rapidly and accurately manipulate the screen. Ironically enough, I could see it working on tablets for this reason, although I believe it is a PC-only title.
A shooter on PC is significantly different than a shooter on console. Prior to games like "Halo" and "Goldeneye 64", no one was really sure a shooter would even work on console. Even though these titles proved they did (and became the most popular genre on consoles, even), they are significantly different in design from games like Quake or Counterstrike.
It really depends on the controller, and the game system in general. For example, the switch is a console, with controllers and a touchscreen like a tablet. In that case, there wouldn't be very many games you couldn't make work.
Equally so with the PS4 controller, that has the touchpad in the middle. It is basically a trackpad and can be used like one, and is pretty accurate in general.
Then you have the steam controller that has two touchpad options, one where another analog should be. It would be great for some games, like RTS's but I am very much so not a fan at the moment despite trying my hardest to make many of my games work with it.
As far as inputs go, controllers are pretty comparable to the amount of keys applicable on a keyboard depending on the layout. I've seen gaming mice far more complicated in functionality with much less comfort.
There is also the chatpad on the Xbox One controller that acts as a full keyboard short of a few special keys like alt and tab. This can be used for hotkeys. Keys 1 - 0 are in easy reach.
Quote: "I disagree; I find that console and PC games tend to be quite different both in philosophy and implementation. A console is not a PC, and a gamepad is not a mouse and keyboard. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I prefer PC, however I'm only claiming that they are notably different."
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Consoles are only different in philosophy and implementation in the sense that the primary control interface and general user interface (which doesn't matter once you're in the game) is different. Apart from that, a console is no different than a PC with a 10 foot interface hooked up to a television/monitor, and an Xbox or PS5 controller hooked up to it.
Consoles support Mouse and Keyboard. Desktop PCs support controllers. This is a useless thing to mention. It's up to the developer to implement proper support for these input methods on either platform. There are some PC games without Controller Support - so you're basically forced to map the controller manually using external software. That is not "support," that's just one benefit of an Open PC ecosystem - the fact that you can install device drivers for hardware and use 3rd party configuration software to map them in this way.
If the PS5 shipped with Razer Synapse or Logitech Gaming Software built into the OS, then this would be a wash, as people would simply buy that brand of peripherals and use the software to configure them. But, that would never happen because Microsoft and Sony would be looking for ways to create Microsoft or Sony peripherals and profit off of it.
The walled garden approach is what's holding consoles back. The gameplay cannot move forward at the pace that PC gaming did, because the platforms are restricted in this way.
But, consoles literally are mid-range gaming PCs. I'm not sure where you're getting this B.S. from.
Developing for console is, in terms of implementation, no different than developing for Mac or Linux. The same issues arise. If your graphics engine doesn't support those platforms and/or thier APIs, then you have a ton of work on your hands and are likely to either fail to deliver a decent product - or you won't port at all.
FFXIV's port to macOS is a great example of this. They designed it with the PS3 and PS4 in mind, so those ports were not hard for them. The macOS port, however, was and is a disaster. A lot of macOS ports of Windows Games uses Wine, in fact. GW2 used Wine for years, but I think they finally got a native client out.
Not interested in VR. It's just another gimmick to sell overpriced hardware. Also, nothing about MMORPGs these days suspends reality. MMORPGs were magical when the genre and tech was fairly new. EverQuest actually felt like a world to people, back then... But no one really feels that way, these days. It's just a game.
I don't think VR is going to change that. It will just be another new, shiny thing for people to play with. Every platform is trying to develop their own proprietary VR headset to reap the most profits off of it.
I disagree; I find that console and PC games tend to be quite different both in philosophy and implementation. A console is not a PC, and a gamepad is not a mouse and keyboard. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I prefer PC, however I'm only claiming that they are notably different.
A game like RimWorld could not work on a console because you need to be able to rapidly and accurately manipulate the screen. Ironically enough, I could see it working on tablets for this reason, although I believe it is a PC-only title.
A shooter on PC is significantly different than a shooter on console. Prior to games like "Halo" and "Goldeneye 64", no one was really sure a shooter would even work on console. Even though these titles proved they did (and became the most popular genre on consoles, even), they are significantly different in design from games like Quake or Counterstrike.
It really depends on the controller, and the game system in general. For example, the switch is a console, with controllers and a touchscreen like a tablet. In that case, there wouldn't be very many games you couldn't make work.
Equally so with the PS4 controller, that has the touchpad in the middle. It is basically a trackpad and can be used like one, and is pretty accurate in general.
Then you have the steam controller that has two touchpad options, one where another analog should be. It would be great for some games, like RTS's but I am very much so not a fan at the moment despite trying my hardest to make many of my games work with it.
As far as inputs go, controllers are pretty comparable to the amount of keys applicable on a keyboard depending on the layout. I've seen gaming mice far more complicated in functionality with much less comfort.
There is also the chatpad on the Xbox One controller that acts as a full keyboard short of a few special keys like alt and tab. This can be used for hotkeys. Keys 1 - 0 are in easy reach.
Console developers are, in general, incredibly lazy and do as little as possible to adapt their game to console - or take advantage of the console hardware. The only games that really do this are high budget AAA titles from some of the best development firms, or console exclusives. Games released for both will often completely ignore exclusive features on each.
KB/Mouse Support in consoles is generally underused in games. Even in Sony's own PS4 software, you cannot use the mouse in the Web Browser. My Smart Smart TV actually has better KB/Mouse support than the PS4. I don't think we will get anything decent, on this end, until the next console generation.
I don't think this is a big deal, though. As long as an MMORPG doesn't have bloated skill bars like EQ2, and uses some level of Action Combat (or hybrid - like Guild Wars 2), it should be able to accommodate the control without issue.
Voice chat can take care of communications - as it has been available for this purpose on PC MMORPGs like EQ2 for almost a decade, and is becoming more and more common in other games (i.e. Blizzard App having Social/Chat features built into-it).
I do think Sony and Microsoft need to add a push to talk button on their next console's controllers. The open mic status quo is a reason why I never use Voice Chat on consoles.
The console market is gigantic. However, they are of a different breed. They don't really yearn for giant / deep / complex MMORPGs. MMOs will always be for PC.
I agree with this. If it happens it will shallow mmo's that are made for consoles.
One advantage consoles have is built in social connectivity. You can even play single player games together. It is inherently a more social platform. PCs can get there through Discord or Teamspeak or whatever, but it's not built in like most console platforms.
That's true, but primarily because, like with many things on PC, everything is so fragmented. You have some people using discord, others using in-game chat, some using steam chats.
Everyone has their own idea of how they want to communicate and what platform to do it on. I think this is also something that needs to be handled on the mobile space too before we start to see a rise in MMO co-operative play.
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A VR MMO would need to make far fewer new mechanics to feel very differently from older games and give that awesome experience of something new.
It is certainly not the only way but any MMO that want to reach Wows peak levels would need to offer a new experience to people. Wow did this by getting players from other genres and Blizz fans that never played EQ or a similar games before.
You can't do that anymore, most players that would be interesting trying a new MMO have already played others before so you need to think rather different from the older games unless you use VR or AR to present the game differently.
You probably would need new combat mechanics, new character mechanics and a new way to feed players the story besides quests and DEs otherwise. Something that would feel like nothing you ever played before.
You up just want games to cater to you, unsurprisingly.
But, cutting out over half of the market is terrible for business.
Mid range gaming pc is like 800-1000 these days, BTW.
Budget PCs can be bought up to snuff with nothing but a GTx 1050 GPU upgrade, for MMOs, right now.
Well, considering they tried to make a WoW level MMO for the last 10 years and couldn't leads me to believe the next WoW level MMO won't be on PC. Or any other platform for that matter.
I do agree, at some point, there might be an AR MMO that rises to the popularity of WoW, but in order for that to happen, it's highly unlikely it will be on the PC.
http://www.pcgamer.com/vendetta-online-is-the-first-mmo-to-get-oculus-rift-support/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/746930/OrbusVR/
Note there have been some significant updates since I made this video:
...and here is Orbus VR:
As far as reaching WoW-levels of popularity, I'm not sure VR would necessarily be a stone in that hat: at least, not yet.
While Oculus per Facebook may be aiming for a billion people in VR, even if you include mobile sets there is a long way to go.
As far as mechanics go, the biggest drawback is the setup time: it's much easier to turn on a monitor than to get in to a VR headset. Then you are totally cut off from the real world: I'm not always in the mood for this.
Otherwise, it is a very compelling experience, and for the right MMORPG (like the one in my signature) it could be a match made in heaven.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
The new sets "released" at CES will help a little in bridging some gaps between a more casual playstyle and easier to setup system. Cordless, standalone (no cell phone required) and built in room scale and tracking are what people NEED in the least to get VR off the ground.
The Vive Pro is alright, but only a half measure. The Mirage Solo is the ideal format but lower on power. The Huawei VR2 is probably the most ideal system, but does require a PC or phone to tether to (but it tethers through a cable and you don't have to stick it to your face)
We're still at least a year off from any standalone AR sets that would be capable of any real gaming, and probably another year off from that to drop the price enough for any mass market appeal.
Have you tried all of the following?:
Vendetta Online
Banner Saga
This War of Mine
None of these fit into "the candy crush variety". Even Elder Scrolls Legends, which might look like a "candy crush variety" if you squint hard enough, is streamed over Twitch via PC and has plenty of strategy going on.
I had a professor in international business say "mobile is the future" in 2014, and he was right.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
I think the two community will stay diverge. Mobile is always more convenient and PC always have better hardware power and keyboard/mouse support.
Where millions of people are expected to be a part of the game.
There are only a few "super" mmo's (if one can call them that) coming down the pike and they're Asian.
Well, we'll "see" about Ashes of Creation.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You sound surprised that you agreed with him.
I don't think it's necessarily about what's releasing as a mainstream focused MMO in the near future that reaches the "WoW" population size, but more so if the climate is right to see a new game grow to those heights not just in terms of population but also in terms of retention.
Just about every upcoming MMO is primarily a PC only MMO (at least at the beginning) which means every new MMO is not just competing with previous games, but each other too. None of them are conducive to getting those kinds of numbers.
Again, see my above list and you'll find that none will stringently fit into the proverbial 'mobile games category'; from my experience this has been a vital convergence for a majority of this decade.
I disagree; I find that console and PC games tend to be quite different both in philosophy and implementation. A console is not a PC, and a gamepad is not a mouse and keyboard. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I prefer PC, however I'm only claiming that they are notably different.
A game like RimWorld could not work on a console because you need to be able to rapidly and accurately manipulate the screen. Ironically enough, I could see it working on tablets for this reason, although I believe it is a PC-only title.
A shooter on PC is significantly different than a shooter on console. Prior to games like "Halo" and "Goldeneye 64", no one was really sure a shooter would even work on console. Even though these titles proved they did (and became the most popular genre on consoles, even), they are significantly different in design from games like Quake or Counterstrike.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Equally so with the PS4 controller, that has the touchpad in the middle. It is basically a trackpad and can be used like one, and is pretty accurate in general.
Then you have the steam controller that has two touchpad options, one where another analog should be. It would be great for some games, like RTS's but I am very much so not a fan at the moment despite trying my hardest to make many of my games work with it.
As far as inputs go, controllers are pretty comparable to the amount of keys applicable on a keyboard depending on the layout. I've seen gaming mice far more complicated in functionality with much less comfort.
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Consoles are only different in philosophy and implementation in the sense that the primary control interface and general user interface (which doesn't matter once you're in the game) is different. Apart from that, a console is no different than a PC with a 10 foot interface hooked up to a television/monitor, and an Xbox or PS5 controller hooked up to it.
Consoles support Mouse and Keyboard. Desktop PCs support controllers. This is a useless thing to mention. It's up to the developer to implement proper support for these input methods on either platform. There are some PC games without Controller Support - so you're basically forced to map the controller manually using external software. That is not "support," that's just one benefit of an Open PC ecosystem - the fact that you can install device drivers for hardware and use 3rd party configuration software to map them in this way.
If the PS5 shipped with Razer Synapse or Logitech Gaming Software built into the OS, then this would be a wash, as people would simply buy that brand of peripherals and use the software to configure them. But, that would never happen because Microsoft and Sony would be looking for ways to create Microsoft or Sony peripherals and profit off of it.
The walled garden approach is what's holding consoles back. The gameplay cannot move forward at the pace that PC gaming did, because the platforms are restricted in this way.
But, consoles literally are mid-range gaming PCs. I'm not sure where you're getting this B.S. from.
Developing for console is, in terms of implementation, no different than developing for Mac or Linux. The same issues arise. If your graphics engine doesn't support those platforms and/or thier APIs, then you have a ton of work on your hands and are likely to either fail to deliver a decent product - or you won't port at all.
FFXIV's port to macOS is a great example of this. They designed it with the PS3 and PS4 in mind, so those ports were not hard for them. The macOS port, however, was and is a disaster. A lot of macOS ports of Windows Games uses Wine, in fact. GW2 used Wine for years, but I think they finally got a native client out.
Not interested in VR. It's just another gimmick to sell overpriced hardware. Also, nothing about MMORPGs these days suspends reality. MMORPGs were magical when the genre and tech was fairly new. EverQuest actually felt like a world to people, back then... But no one really feels that way, these days. It's just a game.
I don't think VR is going to change that. It will just be another new, shiny thing for people to play with. Every platform is trying to develop their own proprietary VR headset to reap the most profits off of it.
KB/Mouse Support in consoles is generally underused in games. Even in Sony's own PS4 software, you cannot use the mouse in the Web Browser. My Smart Smart TV actually has better KB/Mouse support than the PS4. I don't think we will get anything decent, on this end, until the next console generation.
I don't think this is a big deal, though. As long as an MMORPG doesn't have bloated skill bars like EQ2, and uses some level of Action Combat (or hybrid - like Guild Wars 2), it should be able to accommodate the control without issue.
Voice chat can take care of communications - as it has been available for this purpose on PC MMORPGs like EQ2 for almost a decade, and is becoming more and more common in other games (i.e. Blizzard App having Social/Chat features built into-it).
I do think Sony and Microsoft need to add a push to talk button on their next console's controllers. The open mic status quo is a reason why I never use Voice Chat on consoles.
Everyone has their own idea of how they want to communicate and what platform to do it on. I think this is also something that needs to be handled on the mobile space too before we start to see a rise in MMO co-operative play.