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MMORPG.com : General : MMOFTW - The Return! We're back!

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  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited January 2018
    laserit said:
    MadFrenchie, America was supplying both Russia and the UK. Without those support funds and supplies, and the invasion of Europe, they both were going to fall to Nazi Germany.
    Why do you think the u-boats were attacking US shipping?

    Even with this support, and the US entering WWII, the Allies would've likely not been able to defeat Hitler without the sheer manpower of the USSR.  Stalin was an evil man, but his country by far had the largest contributions.  Not to mention the Russian winter.  However, even before that set in, the Wehrmacht had suffered significant casualties in their advance into the Motherland.  Sprinkle in the fact that the Russians ensured this was a two-front war in Europe for the Germans, and they were certainly a lot larger factor than the US involvement.  Rough calculations put Russia at 80 men killed for every American killed, and historians put the kill tally for Nazis at almost 75% for the Russians.
    I don't mean to take anything away from the Russian people. I've always seen a likeness to Americans in the Russians. They're tough and ingenious in the face of danger and even near defeat. But honestly, you can find that among all peoples to some degree or other.
    Those numbers you show (I don't know how accurate but certainly near enough in the big picture) show two things.
    1) The Russian Front was horrendous (for both sides). Outgunned and out-trained by the Nazis, the Russian people lost lives at such atrocious numbers. And never folded. Admirable! And sorrowful too.
    2) The economic power and technological advancement of the US allowed for victories at lower cost of lives once we got there.

    It was that economically advanced state for the US that turned the tides of the war.
    It's true the US could not have won alone. Germany was even more advanced and fueled by the spoils of war. But without us, there was no victory. We were the difference, and that's only because we were an economic giant.
    And again, that's not to take anything away from the other peoples. It's just the way it was.
    There is no argument over the US contribution to the war effort, it was huge.

    Your statements like "But without us, there was no victory" and "It's true the US could not have won alone" make it equally true that without Russia, Britain and the rest of the Allies, there would have been no Victory either.

    The biggest economic advantage America had during the war wasn't because of the advanced state of the economy. It was the fact that the American industrial complex sat between the Atlantic and the Pacific oceans. America's industrial complex was untouchable, all production, resource extraction and the welfare of the populace and everything that goes with it was protected by thousands of miles of ocean.

    Statements like:

    "Meanwhile, it was the US (and with critical help from our native American citizens) that saved all of humanity from what would have been it's darkest hour"

    Makes it sound like you watch way too many Hollywood movies.

    Respect




     
    You're showing WHY we made the difference. That doesn't change the fact that we did indeed make that difference.
    Don't give me that "Hollywood movies" crap. I've been around for too long and talked to too many people who were there.
    Yes, "respect". How about trying some where it's due. I'm not talking about *me, I'm talking about America. The nation that's not perfect but the best thing that's ever happened to this flea-bitten world of corruption and power grabbers.
    We could've sent all the trucks, ammo, and equipment we could pump out to Europe...  Without the Russian's sacrifice, both military and civilian, it would've amounted to a hill of beans.

    image
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,852
    edited January 2018
    laserit said:
    MadFrenchie, America was supplying both Russia and the UK. Without those support funds and supplies, and the invasion of Europe, they both were going to fall to Nazi Germany.
    Why do you think the u-boats were attacking US shipping?

    Even with this support, and the US entering WWII, the Allies would've likely not been able to defeat Hitler without the sheer manpower of the USSR.  Stalin was an evil man, but his country by far had the largest contributions.  Not to mention the Russian winter.  However, even before that set in, the Wehrmacht had suffered significant casualties in their advance into the Motherland.  Sprinkle in the fact that the Russians ensured this was a two-front war in Europe for the Germans, and they were certainly a lot larger factor than the US involvement.  Rough calculations put Russia at 80 men killed for every American killed, and historians put the kill tally for Nazis at almost 75% for the Russians.
    I don't mean to take anything away from the Russian people. I've always seen a likeness to Americans in the Russians. They're tough and ingenious in the face of danger and even near defeat. But honestly, you can find that among all peoples to some degree or other.
    Those numbers you show (I don't know how accurate but certainly near enough in the big picture) show two things.
    1) The Russian Front was horrendous (for both sides). Outgunned and out-trained by the Nazis, the Russian people lost lives at such atrocious numbers. And never folded. Admirable! And sorrowful too.
    2) The economic power and technological advancement of the US allowed for victories at lower cost of lives once we got there.

    It was that economically advanced state for the US that turned the tides of the war.
    It's true the US could not have won alone. Germany was even more advanced and fueled by the spoils of war. But without us, there was no victory. We were the difference, and that's only because we were an economic giant.
    And again, that's not to take anything away from the other peoples. It's just the way it was.
    There is no argument over the US contribution to the war effort, it was huge.

    Your statements like "But without us, there was no victory" and "It's true the US could not have won alone" make it equally true that without Russia, Britain and the rest of the Allies, there would have been no Victory either.

    The biggest economic advantage America had during the war wasn't because of the advanced state of the economy. It was the fact that the American industrial complex sat between the Atlantic and the Pacific oceans. America's industrial complex was untouchable, all production, resource extraction and the welfare of the populace and everything that goes with it was protected by thousands of miles of ocean.

    Statements like:

    "Meanwhile, it was the US (and with critical help from our native American citizens) that saved all of humanity from what would have been it's darkest hour"

    Makes it sound like you watch way too many Hollywood movies.

    Respect




     
    You're showing WHY we made the difference. That doesn't change the fact that we did indeed make that difference.
    Don't give me that "Hollywood movies" crap. I've been around for too long and talked to too many people who were there.
    Yes, "respect". How about trying some where it's due. I'm not talking about *me, I'm talking about America. The nation that's not perfect but the best thing that's ever happened to this flea-bitten world of corruption and power grabbers.
    We could've sent all the trucks, ammo, and equipment we could pump out to Europe...  Without the Russian's sacrifice, both military and civilian, it would've amounted to a hill of beans.
    And without that help Russia was doomed.
    Even with that help, without the US involvement in the invasion of Europe, Russia (and the UK) were doomed. The world outside of North America was doomed. (South America had Nazi's running all over the place, and a lot of support within. Australia was in the eyesight of Imperial Japan.)
    I don't know what's so hard about this.
    Without the US the entire world was doomed. With the US the world was saved. And no other country made such a difference. The UK to the extent that they provided the launching point for D-Day. Russia for being the other half of the pinch on Germany, but that was only possible because of massive help from us.
    None of that takes away from what those other countries did, their price in blood and destruction. But their price paid doesn't remove the fact that they could not have stopped the Nazi's without us.
    We were the difference in Europe, Eurasia, Asia, Africa, the Middle East, all around the world.
    We defeated both the Nazi's and the Imperialists from Japan.

    You know, other countries, for their own morale, make other claims. France says they were liberated by DeGaulle. Russia doesn't talk much about our aid (and in fact had it sealed until the fall of the USSR). That's fine, but there's a lot of propaganda going around that's in place to negate America. A lot of this stuff is holdovers from the Cold War, but being used again by a new threat (socialism).
    Don't fall for it. Question this stuff.
    laserit

    Once upon a time....

  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003

    TaishiFox said:

    Awesome! I liked watching these, even though some stuff I wasn't interested in but kept us in the know. By the way, is it me or does Bill sound different..?



    Yeah, he does sound different. I think he caught self-righteous SJW disorder somewhere in his journeys and its infected his first “comeback” video.

    Such a shame since he used to be interesting to listen to.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

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