DCUO questions

MightyUnclean

Well shit, Marvel Heroes is dead, so I guess I'm stuck with DCUO or Champions Online.  Couple of questions about DCUO:

1)  How is the player base?

2)  Any rumors of a pending shutdown?

3)  Is it still frequently updated?

4)  How spammy and "actiony" is the combat?

5)  When it comes to combos, can you keep it simple?  Or do you have to do long, complicated combos?

Thanks!

maskedweasel

MightyUnclean said:

Well shit, Marvel Heroes is dead, so I guess I'm stuck with DCUO or Champions Online.  Couple of questions about DCUO:

1)  How is the player base?

2)  Any rumors of a pending shutdown?

3)  Is it still frequently updated?

4)  How spammy and "actiony" is the combat?

5)  When it comes to combos, can you keep it simple?  Or do you have to do long, complicated combos?

Thanks!

1. Depends on where you go. PC seems to be alright, console playerbase seems bigger.

2. No word on a pending shutdown at the moment

3. It is updated pretty frequently, and likely will continue to be as long as the DCEU keeps going

4. It's very actiony.  Don't use a M&K if you can help it, it's geared more like a fighting game, combos and constant button presses are a must

5.  It depends on the weapon type.  Some weapons like the 2 handed hammer are very very easy to do.  Meanwhile weapons like the one handed or two handed swords are fast, and require a lot of presses to accomplish some very complex combos,  not to mention there are ways to string together different combos depending on weapon set (and you can also animation cancel in some cases with special powers.

Hope that helps! 

MightyUnclean

Thanks!  So...You have to have a weapon type?  What if I just want to shoot fireballs or lightning out of my eyes or hands or something, and not use a weapon?

maskedweasel

MightyUnclean said:

Thanks!  So...You have to have a weapon type?  What if I just want to shoot fireballs or lightning out of my eyes or hands or something, and not use a weapon?

You can do that with the "handblasters" weapon type.  They have "weapon types" even if they are hand to hand, or pistols or energy blasts.   Then you have your special abilities which you can use as long as you have energy to do so. 

Po_gg

I'll add the CO part as well, since you seem hesitant between the two... Don't get me wrong, I like both DCUO and CO, only this way you won't have to start an another thread

1. small but stable (smaller than DCUO)
2. nope
3. maybe even more frequently than DCUO, but also less too. It gets new cosmetics very often, new powers also quite often. 'Bigger' updates at a time, like DCUO's latest water-based update, CO gets rarely. (though recently it received new content too)
4. this is maybe the biggest difference, CO has regular tab-target hotkey MMO combat, the only 'actiony' part is the active block mechanic.
5. no combos in the sense of DCUO's chains. Some powers work together, and you can exploit those stages, but the longest 'combo' is maybe 3 powers long

edit: yep, for fireballs and such, blasters sounds like the closest.

MrMelGibson

MightyUnclean said:

Thanks!  So...You have to have a weapon type?  What if I just want to shoot fireballs or lightning out of my eyes or hands or something, and not use a weapon?

@Mightyunclean Your weapon choice is separate to your power set.  There is at least a dozen different weapons (2 hand hammer, assault rifle, duel melee weapons, hand blasters etc.).  So you could potentially use the fire or mind power set for example and make a dozen different characters who all use that power but are still different because of the weapon of choice.

You also get to choose how your hero travels. You can fly like superman, run like a meth head aka The Flash or use gadgets and acrobatics (think Batman or Spiderman swinging around).  All are viable.

Unlike Marvel Heroes, you also get to change the look of your hero.  Their wardrobe system was one of the first transmorg type system I ever tried and I'd say it's still one of the best out there.

Scot

DCUO is the best supers MMO out there, sadly that's partly because of the paucity of MMOs in the supers genre.

MightyUnclean

Am I understanding this correctly?  You need to use both a weapon and a power set?  Seems odd to force super heroes to use weapons...

MightyUnclean

I have no idea why that came out red!

OhhPaigey

Scot said:

DCUO is the best supers MMO out there, sadly that's partly because of the paucity of MMOs in the supers genre.

Yep, unfortunately correct, because I wouldn't even say DCUO is a "good" game by any stretch of the imagination, it's quite mediocre at best.

The character customization (including costumes & powersets) are very limited, odd, and the UI is terrible.

I actually had more fun playing Champions for a short period of time. It's much more closer to the roots of what most ex CoX players are after.

--

To kind of, go back on topic here, try both DC and Champions out, I found DC very bland, but Champions has that weird art style that isn't for everyone. I think DC is more popular in terms of a playerbase, probably has more longevity, but I think Champions is the better super hero MMO.

MrMelGibson

MightyUnclean said:

Am I understanding this correctly?  You need to use both a weapon and a power set?  Seems odd to force super heroes to use weapons...

@Mightyunclean Your weapons are your mouse buttons.  Weak and strong attack.  Each weapon has its own combo sets.  Which are dictated by clicking them in different sequences for example one combo would be: Left Click, Left Click, Right Click.  This is a starter combo on a lot of the weapons.  They get a bit more complex as they upgrade.

  Your power set is like your typical mmo action bar with abilities with dropdowns. 

So say you find a power set you absolutely love, but the duel pistol weapon isn't something you enjoy.  But that 2 hand hammer looks like more your style.  No problem, make a new character with that new weapon and the same power set.  The customization available when making your character is something that always shined in this game imo.

BruceYee

What I'd like to know is when will the DC license expire for this game.

maskedweasel

MrMelGibson said:

MightyUnclean said:

Am I understanding this correctly?  You need to use both a weapon and a power set?  Seems odd to force super heroes to use weapons...

@Mightyunclean Your weapons are your mouse buttons.  Weak and strong attack.  Each weapon has its own combo sets.  Which are dictated by clicking them in different sequences for example one combo would be: Left Click, Left Click, Right Click.  This is a starter combo on a lot of the weapons.  They get a bit more complex as they upgrade.

  Your power set is like your typical mmo action bar with abilities with dropdowns. 

So say you find a power set you absolutely love, but the duel pistol weapon isn't something you enjoy.  But that 2 hand hammer looks like more your style.  No problem, make a new character with that new weapon and the same power set.  The customization available when making your character is something that always shined in this game imo.

This is accurate.  It's like, say, Green Lanterns powers are that he can create objects with his ring, but he can still throw a punch,  so his powerset would be Light Constructs, and his weaponset would be Martial Arts (maybe brawling?)   Brawling and 2H Hammer are both really easy sets to start with. 

maskedweasel

OhhPaigey said:

Scot said:

DCUO is the best supers MMO out there, sadly that's partly because of the paucity of MMOs in the supers genre.

Yep, unfortunately correct, because I wouldn't even say DCUO is a "good" game by any stretch of the imagination, it's quite mediocre at best.

The character customization (including costumes & powersets) are very limited, odd, and the UI is terrible.

I actually had more fun playing Champions for a short period of time. It's much more closer to the roots of what most ex CoX players are after.

--

To kind of, go back on topic here, try both DC and Champions out, I found DC very bland, but Champions has that weird art style that isn't for everyone. I think DC is more popular in terms of a playerbase, probably has more longevity, but I think Champions is the better super hero MMO.

Character Customization is quite high on DCUO but you have to collect armor pieces to visually customize your character.  They've also added a lot of power sets, and that doesn't include the iconic and movement sets that you can use powers from.  The main difference is that CO's powers look and act relatively similar to each other and DCUO while they may have less sets overall, they are for the most part all different. 

Po_gg

maskedweasel said:

The main difference is that CO's powers look and act relatively similar to each other and DCUO while they may have less sets overall, they are for the most part all different. 

I think the main difference is the freedom. CO has a vastly larger array of customization, both on looks, as with powers. On visuals it's as much ahead of DCUO, as much DCUO is ahead of an average game which is not cosmetic-heavy. (CO has a bit advantage on the costumes themselves too, but the big difference is that you can create anything to put those costumes on, and not just picking one of the 3 human bodies)

And on powers, it is not even in the same ballpark. CO has frameworks too ('powersets') but the main difference is that those are not set in stone. In DCUO you pick a powerset, and then you add a weapon. You can mix those pairs, select what to use from them, but that's it.
In CO however, all the powers available in the game are piled up in before you, and you cherry-pick from those what you want. You can build any weird, working or not working combinations, there are just a few rules, beyond that you have total freedom.

Or, you can stick to a framework, or even pick an Archetype if you like (a pre-built hero around a theme), these are the options which DCUO offers too. Lots of players go that way, nothing's wrong with that either, the FreeForm is not everyone's cup of beverage.
I'm not even saying CO's method is better - sure, it is better for me personally, but preferences and playstyles are different to each player out there. DCUO has nicely implemented themes with the powersets, and easy to pick up one for play through the game.

MightyUnclean

OK, thanks guys!  What's the power set of a Superman and Batman type?  The basic brawling sounds like I might like it.

maskedweasel

MightyUnclean said:

OK, thanks guys!  What's the power set of a Superman and Batman type?  The basic brawling sounds like I might like it.

When you start the game it will give you a chance to choose a hero you want to be most like, and it will select the best sets for you, and even a similar costume and let you customize from there. 

maskedweasel

Po_gg said:

maskedweasel said:

The main difference is that CO's powers look and act relatively similar to each other and DCUO while they may have less sets overall, they are for the most part all different. 

I think the main difference is the freedom. CO has a vastly larger array of customization, both on looks, as with powers. On visuals it's as much ahead of DCUO, as much DCUO is ahead of an average game which is not cosmetic-heavy. (CO has a bit advantage on the costumes themselves too, but the big difference is that you can create anything to put those costumes on, and not just picking one of the 3 human bodies)

And on powers, it is not even in the same ballpark. CO has frameworks too ('powersets') but the main difference is that those are not set in stone. In DCUO you pick a powerset, and then you add a weapon. You can mix those pairs, select what to use from them, but that's it.
In CO however, all the powers available in the game are piled up in before you, and you cherry-pick from those what you want. You can build any weird, working or not working combinations, there are just a few rules, beyond that you have total freedom.

Or, you can stick to a framework, or even pick an Archetype if you like (a pre-built hero around a theme), these are the options which DCUO offers too. Lots of players go that way, nothing's wrong with that either, the FreeForm is not everyone's cup of beverage.
I'm not even saying CO's method is better - sure, it is better for me personally, but preferences and playstyles are different to each player out there. DCUO has nicely implemented themes with the powersets, and easy to pick up one for play through the game.

I meant more-so in the visuals and mechanics. It's been several years, but last time I played CO, the fire, the force, pretty much the majority of powers had animations that were exactly alike, were executed the same, and only really had one modifier.  Even the damage was somewhat similar. 

DCUO at least visually changes a lot within the powersets.  Some of them do work similarly, but there are also sets that are starkly different from one another.  

Tokken

I just came back to it recently and I am enjoying it. Seems like they always got some event going on and updates.  I see plenty of people in game so it looks pretty healthy.

Po_gg

maskedweasel said:

DCUO at least visually changes a lot within the powersets.  Some of them do work similarly, but there are also sets that are starkly different from one another.  

Yep, that's true, visually DCUO is much more detailed, but that's quite obvious right from the origins   DCUO is an action / brawler game developed with consoles in mind, so the animations should be flawless and responsive (animation cancelling, chaining...), since it has an important part in the gameplay.

CO on the other hand is a 'regular' tab-target MMO, with a pen-and-paper rpg behind it. Like with many similar games, skill animations are 'just there', to have something to look at while the calculations happen in the background.  Ok, that might be an oversimplification 

Point is, animation has no such part in the direct gameplay as it has in action games. Check at the promotional video of the new Munitions ultimate from a year ago https://youtu.be/bTikX3sb3hg
Might look straight out silly compared to DCUO, hits are not connected, etc. but accuracy and responsiveness aren't necessary in the first place, since the important thing is that chart somewhere in the middle, the range, the arch, the max. targets, etc.

Different goals for the two, and both do their homeworks well enough.

DabOnThem

MightyUnclean said:

Well shit, Marvel Heroes is dead, so I guess I'm stuck with DCUO or Champions Online.  Couple of questions about DCUO:

1)  How is the player base?

2)  Any rumors of a pending shutdown?

3)  Is it still frequently updated?

4)  How spammy and "actiony" is the combat?

5)  When it comes to combos, can you keep it simple?  Or do you have to do long, complicated combos?

Thanks!

1) Decent I guess, queuing up for alerts take forever.

2) Nope

3) Yep

4) Combat is clunky, but not bad. Marvel Heroes was the better action mmo

5) Depends on what you are doing and want to do

I would lean towards CO. Less populated, but the superior super hero mmo in terms of powers, customization, combat, and ability to get into raids.

wanderica

Some misinformation here about DCUO, or maybe just a little dated.  The recent stat rebalance has changed things a bit with respect to weapons and powers.  I return to DCUO once a year or so, and have been playing for the last few days.  You can focus on weapon damage, power damage, or a mix of the 2 (hybrid).  You have to choose a weapon type when you make your character, but if using powers (less "action-y") is more your thing, then that is now possible.  I only have a single Skill Point in my weapon, for example.  Stat gains are now acquired in a separate tree.  Whatever you choose, it's a pretty spammy combat system.  I will add though, it's one of the few action combat MMOs I've been able to tolerate long term. 

If character customization is more your thing, then CO is far better in that regard.  DCUO has plenty of it, but it becomes more of an end-game activity collecting styles while CO gives you tons of options up front.  I made a Buzz Lightyear in CO that was perfect.  That level of character customization and detail is simply not possible on DCUO.

The grind in DCUO at end game is real.  Level 30 is a tutorial, and I recently did it in a day.  You have 8 tiers of content to grind through after that.  There's a LOT to do, and content is gated behind your CR or Combat Rating which is raised through gear upgrades.  Personally, I prefer DCUO over CO, but find both enjoyable.  For me, the content is more accessible in DCUO.  Solo, Duo, 4 man, and Raids are all easily done by someone with a strange schedule.

MightyUnclean

wanderica said:

Some misinformation here about DCUO, or maybe just a little dated.  The recent stat rebalance has changed things a bit with respect to weapons and powers.  I return to DCUO once a year or so, and have been playing for the last few days.  You can focus on weapon damage, power damage, or a mix of the 2 (hybrid).  You have to choose a weapon type when you make your character, but if using powers (less "action-y") is more your thing, then that is now possible.  I only have a single Skill Point in my weapon, for example.  Stat gains are now acquired in a separate tree.  Whatever you choose, it's a pretty spammy combat system.  I will add though, it's one of the few action combat MMOs I've been able to tolerate long term. 

If character customization is more your thing, then CO is far better in that regard.  DCUO has plenty of it, but it becomes more of an end-game activity collecting styles while CO gives you tons of options up front.  I made a Buzz Lightyear in CO that was perfect.  That level of character customization and detail is simply not possible on DCUO.

The grind in DCUO at end game is real.  Level 30 is a tutorial, and I recently did it in a day.  You have 8 tiers of content to grind through after that.  There's a LOT to do, and content is gated behind your CR or Combat Rating which is raised through gear upgrades.  Personally, I prefer DCUO over CO, but find both enjoyable.  For me, the content is more accessible in DCUO.  Solo, Duo, 4 man, and Raids are all easily done by someone with a strange schedule.

Interesting info.  If you go for a powers build over a weapons build, is it still "action combat?"  Are there still combos?  I'm not the most coordinated gamer, and my reaction times are questionable these days.  I usually find action type MMOs tiring.

Po_gg

wanderica said:

Some misinformation here about DCUO, or maybe just a little dated.  The recent stat rebalance has changed things a bit with respect to weapons and powers.

That is correct, at least in my part... post-revamp I only leveled a character to 30, but never really jumped into the changes of the endgame grind, and as you say the leveling part of DCUO is more like just a tutorial. That's why I tried to talk on the general stuff.

I too find both games fun and enjoyable (though I prefer CO, because I love the customization and in that department CO is the best), and very much agree on the action part:

wanderica said:

I will add though, it's one of the few action combat MMOs I've been able to tolerate long term. 

Maybe sounds weird since I'm quite vocal against action craps   but the combo mechanic is interesting and fun, even if spammy. Not mouse-friendly though... especially not in the heat of a raid encounter.

Mighty, by the time you reach 30 -and that's not a long time- you will know whether it's tiring enough to leave, or not. I guess even with the more power focus you need to use the mouse a lot, but probably less than the old setup. I might check it some time later.
(after the Zath server is done in AoC, that is... )

wanderica

MightyUnclean said:

wanderica said:

Some misinformation here about DCUO, or maybe just a little dated.  The recent stat rebalance has changed things a bit with respect to weapons and powers.  I return to DCUO once a year or so, and have been playing for the last few days.  You can focus on weapon damage, power damage, or a mix of the 2 (hybrid).  You have to choose a weapon type when you make your character, but if using powers (less "action-y") is more your thing, then that is now possible.  I only have a single Skill Point in my weapon, for example.  Stat gains are now acquired in a separate tree.  Whatever you choose, it's a pretty spammy combat system.  I will add though, it's one of the few action combat MMOs I've been able to tolerate long term. 

If character customization is more your thing, then CO is far better in that regard.  DCUO has plenty of it, but it becomes more of an end-game activity collecting styles while CO gives you tons of options up front.  I made a Buzz Lightyear in CO that was perfect.  That level of character customization and detail is simply not possible on DCUO.

The grind in DCUO at end game is real.  Level 30 is a tutorial, and I recently did it in a day.  You have 8 tiers of content to grind through after that.  There's a LOT to do, and content is gated behind your CR or Combat Rating which is raised through gear upgrades.  Personally, I prefer DCUO over CO, but find both enjoyable.  For me, the content is more accessible in DCUO.  Solo, Duo, 4 man, and Raids are all easily done by someone with a strange schedule.

Interesting info.  If you go for a powers build over a weapons build, is it still "action combat?"  Are there still combos?  I'm not the most coordinated gamer, and my reaction times are questionable these days.  I usually find action type MMOs tiring.

Everyone has a weapon (or several if you put points into others).  With no points spent, you can melee light, melee heavy, ranged light, and ranged heavy by tapping or holding the button.  The combos are going to come from a weapons focus.  You need to invest Skill Points to get them.  They would be a Tap - Tap - Hold type combo.  Using a controller works well if you like weapons.  Focusing on powers is your basic hotkey spam.  You choose from an assortment of abilities that gain as you level up, and assign them to buttons 1-6.  It's still action based combat, but I only use basic ranged attacks to keep the counter high when I'm out of power for abilities.  All other times, I'm spamming 1-6 on my keyboard.

DabOnThem

The reason why I do not recommend DCUO, is because I do not believe anyone should have to throw money at a dated D-list mmo. WoW does not even require such a thing, and it is AAA and subbed based. There are better action rpg to throw money at like BDO, PSO2, Vindictus, MH, or any Korean mmo.

If you are a DC superfan, you will enjoy DCUO. If you are just an MMO fan, you won't. As Wander said, CO is the way to go if customization is your thing. DCUO is predicated on the DC Universe. Don't expect to create any unique characters, because they only release customization for the few most popular superheroes. Nor is there any body scaling, layering, or power customization. You can create a better  Batman and Superman in CO than you can in DCUO, powers and all, which is sad.

CO combat seems more free, versatile, and more enjoyable. There is also free-form where you can mix and match powers. CO also has vehicles, and raids predicated on vehicles. One of my coolest moments as a noob was getting jumped by Purple Gang members in front of the restaurants only for a high level player to swoop down in his aircraft to wipe them all out with missiles. The community is also better in CO.

In DCUO, you are merely a lackey. Following around Batman for 30 levels only to be met by a P2W grind at endgame.

Personally, both are flawed, but I would play CO, until SoH and CoT releases. If you are a DCU superfan, DCUO is the way to go imo.
http://massivelyop.com/2018/01/29/ship-of-heroes-deep-dives-villains-and-new-body-conscious-female-hero-costumes/
http://massivelyop.com/2018/02/09/city-of-titans-introduces-its-costume-designer-while-teasing-character-creation/