Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Elder Scrolls Online - The Conundrum of the Dragon Knight - MMORPG.com
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Elder Scrolls Online - The Conundrum of the Dragon Knight - MMORPG.com
We’ve talked a lot about class balance and general balance in Elder Scrolls Online but lately it seems like one class is getting more attention than the others and no, it’s not the Warden. Dragon Knight has been in an odd spot for a long time now and even when I play my DK, it just doesn’t feel right. If you’re going full Stamina, you’re probably in an alright place. But Magicka DKs feel differently.
Comments
But I do acknowledge that its nice that there is a choice. If people like to play in trinity they should and if they like running thru dungeon they should.
However I do not like your "if there is no need, why use it" argument. It implies that people should play only what is needed and not what is fun for them, and that trinity is not wanted in majority of players.
I'm not sure how anyone stands playing this class. Templar and Sorc blow this class out of the water. I guess, a boring, unremarkable class is what you get if you want to be an impossible to kill tank. Not really a good trade-off.
Maybe I'll try to kick the tires.
What is a good resource to read up on classes and builds to learn a good solo leveling build/class?
Stop crippling keyboard/mouse players with the terrible control set up.
And decide once and for all what you want combat to be - a free for all dps spam fest or a structured group with class roles - I'm sure you put them there for a reason, but never told the content guys.
There are some passives in the DK tree that should be changed:
For instance, sorcs have a passive that boosts shock and physical damage period, whereas the DK's passive is only flame and poison from the Ardent Flame tree. Standard does flame damage on both morphs (the one that isn't stand of might should deal poison). This would make the flame damage in other trees (even destruction) stronger, making the skills more useful. Another thing would be to change some of the magic damage abilities to flame. The DK really doesn't have much going for it in terms of damage choice. Searing Flames + Lava Whip spam while Eruption runs. Eruption, btw should have compounding damage based on how long you keep it cast (that is the Eruption happens as the effect ends, so if you recast it before that, the damage is increased by x% per recast up to y times). Cinder Storm should be poison, but I'll explain my thoughts on how I'm vexed by how elements are assigned to skills...
Tbh the whole poison this flame that should be left to which is higher between spell and weapon damage (greater spell damage forces flame, greater weapon damage forces poison, if they're equal it's 50/50). Same w/shock and physical or ice and physical. Why? More variety of skills, it allows morphs to be more technical advances, and it makes skills useful to the build from the beginning.
Igneous Shield should heal when the shield depletes like healing ward AOE or removes 1 negative effect. DK healers are under established. Also the passive Helping Hands should be changed to give 250/500 magicka and stamina back to you AND nearby Allies.
Dragon Knight is the best tank in the game. No tank has more options or the ability to take more damage in veteran dungeons and trials. In meta focused groups most players will insist the main tank is a dragon knight for Trials and veteran Trials especially.
Doing vMOL without a DK main tank is asking for additional difficulty.
Totally agree. I personally want distinct classes.
FFXIV did it the right way. Create a character, then level your class... and later on you can level other classes on that same character and switch between them. This is the epitome of what MMORPGs really should be going for.
Ideally, you really shouldn't need to create an army of alts in an MMORPG, these days.
This idea of "master of none, but you can do every role" classes sounds great in theory, but it leads to classes that are unattractive to many people and meta builds that really defy the developer's intent (or what I think is intentional). It's a façade. Yes, you can make all these weird builds, but 90% of them are worthless in application unless you play alone or with super casuals who don't care at all about these things.
It's easier to balance classes against classes and adjust for "Meta forces" on that level, than to deal with these classes which have been diluted to the point of being laughable, and the fact that certain builds within such a flexible system are so much better than others.
It's a lazy way to design classes, and it creates all sorts of balance issues later on because the builds that many people "like" to play end up inviable in large (and important) areas of the game. Often, the playstyle of these builds is nothing like the others, which means switching builds is directly comparable to rerolling to a different class.
The proliferation of things like DPS/HPS Meters and GearScore/Item Level coupled with the fact that so much performance is tied to gear which may not synergize well with the majority of possible builds compounds the issue. The gear issue is a specific point that was bought up recently re: WoW and how Tier Sets completely strip away the freedom players have to gear themselves, while being so good that you literally cannot avoid them.
What ESO has done was create a system even more open than the "Specialization" system for WoW classes, with all of the issues the WoW developers face balancing this - magnified to exponential levels. And they don't even have the developer talent to deal with it.
A much better way to achieve this goal is the system that games like Lineage II or FFXIV have. You level 2+ classes on the same character and switch between them. If your group needs a healer, then you can switch to your healer class and heal. If they need a tank or DPS, then you do that. But it's much easier to track balance and viability because those classes are distinct. You aren't dealing with a Sorcerer who can Heal, Tank and DPS - but only a DPS class. The Sorcerer changes classes completely to their Cleric if they want to heal, for example.
I don't like GW2 or ESO's model. I do think ESO has a better model to the extent that there are actual roles in the game. But it's still too open and ultimately convoluted, confusing, and "Meta-oriented" for me.
I have no problem with whatever way you want to do a dungeon with a pre-made group but expecting 3 random strangers to do it your way is not just selfish, it's boorish. And this has become an epidemic in ESO.
The fact is that a zero or low CP group of not so experienced players running dungeons still needs a healer and a tank doing their roles. The trinity is not only alive and well for them, it's a necessity. What they don't need is some random DPS with BIS gear and max CP trivializing the run and just running ahead soloing the dungeon.
What ESO in fact needs is a 3rd difficulty level for dungeons where all those semi-bored dungeon zergers can have their ass handed to them and humbly rediscover the need for the tank role.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Don't disagree with harder content (though I'm not particularly a fan of difficulty sliders), but I don't think that will solve the underlying issue with DK the author has, would it?
I find the basic role of just holding aggro, mitigating damage and gathering adds quite boring honestly. That's what I was reading between the lines in the article TBH.
Not many people in ESO in their right minds would do a raid without a tank or two. So the game, when cranked up to its current difficulty max, does indeed need tanks and it's very much a trinity game. And DK full tanks are kings in that content because of their "underlying issues" that shine there and are anything but issues.
It's how OP'd maxed-out characters are relative to the dungeon difficulty and our ability to DPS zerg the content that has created the situation where tanks and tanking skills are perceived to be useless. The problem isn't with the DK tanking skills it's with how easy even vet dungeons are for the geared elite.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Even at 690cp you're not going to "no tank" Ruins of Mazzatun, Bloodroot Forge, or White-Gold Tower on Veteran while doing the final boss with the hard mode on. That level of difficulty does exist.
I loved the DK with full stamina and heavy armor!
― George Carlin
I assumed the OP was talking in generalities about the bulk of the dungeon content - especially most of the vanilla dungeons - which are very easy and can be DPS zerged.
Even then, I personally enjoy the runs more when there's a tank since I'm not fond of aggro ping-pong when DPSing or healing.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
If the OP is only talking about normal dungeons then yes you can "no tank" them. But find me an MMO where you can't get to the point of being able to do that? In World of Warcraft, you can run normal Mythic and even Mythic +2 - +5, depending on the week, without a tank or with just a tank and no healer. The same can be said about many MMOs. If you over gear the content you can start to delete archetypes from the recipe but I can assure you the first time you did it, when you weren't so powerful, you did need a tank.
The only way for a developer to really make the game mandate a tank at all gear levels is to have the boss employ one shot mechanics that only someone with tank cool downs can deal with. I referenced Bloodroot Forge because at the end you must tank three "one shot bosses" and keep them taunted while blocking all of their heavy attacks. This is of course on Veteran difficulty. For DPS to try this they would most assuredly die even with CP cap.
A 3rd difficulty would also work as a way to keep tanking relevant.
Anyway, my whole point in responding was simply that I find the premise of this article flawed. The whole "do we need a tank?" and "are all of those DK tanking skills wasted?" questions is based on cheesing content that can be cheesed. It has noting whatsoever to do with DK class skills nor whether ESO is a trinity game which it very obviously is in any content that can't be cheesed.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Reading the article my first thought was I hope the devs don't nerf survivability of other classes just to force the need of having a DK in a group.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey