There is definitely a lot wrong with it, mostly in that it would end up appealing to a very niche crowd. Personally, I enjoy wide open world pvp where I have to hunt down an opponent for a fight, it feels satisfying. That said, while I would love to play it, I probably wouldn't develop it if given a choice (I think I like making games more than playing them). If it were a game I was going to develop I might not even include PVP at all or have it solely in a structured format. While justice systems are nice on paper I have yet to play with one that actually felt like it added to the fun of gameplay instead of just coming across as gimmicky (i.e. ArcheAge, Eve). Instead I think the focus would be better served on the AI and making combat against it feel engaging and entertaining. Basically it boils down to the fact that AI mobs don't mind getting beat up constantly while PVP requires winners and losers, and the more regulation there is in terms of keeping people from losing too much, the less it feels like "real" PVP.
Ahh, so you're a predatorial type, eh? Hehe, I like it too. But I saw right away in UO what it does to the player base. So I didn't do it outside of guild wars.
There is a way. If you read all my posts in this thread, and think about it in a positive fashion (i.e. how can this work instead of applying scenarios from past experiences that are taken care of in this system), you should be able to see that it does in fact work. There will always be a small percentage of gamers who won't accept any PvP at all, largely exactly because it's never worked out well for them in the past.
The big secret (evidently) is that past "efforts" at "justice" systems have always allowed outs for the PKers. Ludicrous! Save the PKers and lose large portions of the other players. It just boggles the mind. And even in the proof in the pudding, the lack of retention in wide open PvP games and servers, people still won't see it. But there are many game designers and developers who want wide open PvP and won't do what's needed. And what is needed is true punishment for PKers (as opposed to PvPers).
My system separates the two. It allows PvPers to have their fun in the regular world, mixed in to the player developed history of the game world. PART of the game world.
I've re-read your posts but I don't think I understand how the system is supposed to work yet. Let me recap my understanding of it: a flag for pvp that will enable you to fight anyone, anywhere. The justice system comes into play if a flagged player attacks an un-flagged player and they are labeled as a PKer. Inevitably, the results are harsh to discourage the PKer from repeating the action.
What I don't understand is, what would the punishment be exactly? If it's "jail" time, what is the comfort to the person who got ganked? For the PKer who wants the open world PVP, how does it not feel like they're getting punished for PVPing?
Let me recap. Anyone can attack anyone, anytime, anywhere. --> BUT ... if you attack someone outside of "sanctioned" PvP, you are flagged as a criminal.
Criminal penalties aren't that bad at first. But they add up. Penalties are stat + skill loss. Jail doesn't cut it. So, lets say you PK one player. You get caught by his guild. You get the penalty. You can live with it. 'It's just a scratch." This allows players to take care of those jerks who ruin player events and spam crap or whatever. At a small cost.
But if you've PKed too many, the accumulated stat and skill loss really hurts your character because at some point it begins to compound. Now you can't effectively PK either. (Except newbies, maybe. May have to add a perma-death mode if a stat or skill goes to 0. I like this idea anyways for another reason.)
Sanctioned PvP is guild wars, expanded to city wars. Allies included. But it does not apply to all guild members. Only those who have joined the guild's "military" or "guard". This protects a guild's crafts players who don't want PvP. It allows guilds to be more robust in membership.
Plus the artifact system. Certain items, places, and things can cause warfare in a radius for on-the-fly PvP within the game world. This is outside of wars. Such artifacts have to be attuned to the guilds involved (cult, sect, order, whatever) by choice upon creation of the guild.
Sets of these things (artifacts) would be pre-created based on deities, ideals (culture), etc. And these things would be initially hidden in the game world. This is a game big on exploration and discovery, remember? And new artifacts can be created through ongoing lore events. (MOB drops too.)
But war doesn't start just by entering the radius effect. --> First, someone has to pick it up. <-- They and their group (but not the rest of their guild, and not the competing guilds), are flagged for "war". So far, no one else is.
This next step sounds like it a needless extra step, but it's not. It's part of the criminal flag system and can be used here too.
-If someone from a competing guild attacks one of the flagged group, they become flagged too (and their group). -From that point on, this "war" becomes a one off "Battle". -Any member of either guild that's not flagged as part of one of these groups can enter this "Battle" by attacking someone who's already flagged. This includes a flagged player who leaves the radius of the artifact's affects. But not other guild members who aren't flagged.
In either case, "War" or "Battle", non-military guild members can join the combat by attacking an enemy who's flagged for "War/Battle", becoming flagged for war themselves.
Any character that dies in a war or battle cannot be flagged for that war or battle again. They are out of said war for the duration. This allows victory conditions. Want to do it again? Just declare another war. Or find another artifact. Or attack the place where the artifact resides, because the radius effect is permanent.
But such places can be enhanced for defense, as I stated in a previous post. These enhancement become much stronger when said place (Temple, for example) is "closed", doors are locked, and only members already inside can use it's assets. This protects off/late hour attacks when few members are online. There would have to be a limit on the number of players allowed inside a "closed" temple Guild Grounds, or other.
In my above post, I just wanted to add something. On the cultural "War/Battle" level... Lets say the game has Pixie playable characters. Lets say that Pixies live in an Enchanted Forest, because that's the only place where a certain type of Mushroom grows that they need to eat to replenish a certain power of theirs.
In this case, certain flora and fauna of this Enchanted Forest could be part of the Pixie's "Artifacts" system. Killing or cutting down said "Artifacts" would start this system in motion, taking resources from these things are "Artifacts" too. Radius effects apply. Pixie players wouldn't HAVE to enter PvP, but they can, and defend their Forrest.
See how this can be used to make a world full meaningful events?
Also, BOSS MOBs might be able to deal damage that affects stats. Meaning that certain powerful MOBs (Ancient Dragons, as an example) would be very dangerous, and can perma-kill a character. I'd balance that by setting the math so that the player would have to be healed several times BEFORE DYING for that to happen. In most cases, anyways.
I'd also only allow this power IN THE LAIR of the Boss. Where all the RICHES and LOOT are.
Take Ultima Online , Asherons Call or Anarchy Online , keep all the great features and mechainics in place , improve the UI , and give it an updated engine ...
Winner
Im not sure we'd all agree on the great features though...Take UO for example I hated the Felucca PVP...To me that is the worst possible design when powerful players just sit and kill helpless players all day.
It is influenced that I just went back into the Project Entropia. But I have to say I love the real cash economy. I would hope to do it a bit differently than Project Entropia.
I'd have the game be on a subscription. But I'd have in-game mechanism to either reduce your monthly subscription based on in-game actions or to actually make money from playing the game.
I like the Plex idea EVE has but an additional idea I would have is that certain in-game roles will draw money out automatically and can actually put money into your account.
For example, there will be certain loots that will either trigger a payback to your account or at least the option to do it. High risk and high reward. People who rank highly in their profession, will be able to get monthly prizes from the company.
For example, if you're the top ranked sword crafter you get free monthly service. If your items are used the most out of all that is crafted, then you get $5 in your account monthly. You can have a whole slew of things.
You successfully beat a raid, you get 25 cents back, you can have all sort of these things. Top guild leaders get $10-20 per month. You own land or castles, etc.
Now the way this is funded is primarily by subscription, i'd have to say that lootboxes would be tempting given that people pay to own, in this way, you can pay to own and get a monthly income. But I may or may not add lootboxes. But I would add a few places where there are loading screens, like going into housing or raids or whatever and i'd have ad space scrolling by. So I could make money that way in addition to the subscriptions.
The goal would be for the ad space revenue to cover the paying out the players.
That's my idea. i'm + or - on P2W or lootbox elements.
There's playing a game for fun adn then there's playing a game where you can actually profit to some degree.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
It is influenced that I just went back into the Project Entropia. But I have to say I love the real cash economy. I would hope to do it a bit differently than Project Entropia.
I'd have the game be on a subscription. But I'd have in-game mechanism to either reduce your monthly subscription based on in-game actions or to actually make money from playing the game.
I like the Plex idea EVE has but an additional idea I would have is that certain in-game roles will draw money out automatically and can actually put money into your account.
For example, there will be certain loots that will either trigger a payback to your account or at least the option to do it. High risk and high reward. People who rank highly in their profession, will be able to get monthly prizes from the company.
For example, if you're the top ranked sword crafter you get free monthly service. If your items are used the most out of all that is crafted, then you get $5 in your account monthly. You can have a whole slew of things.
You successfully beat a raid, you get 25 cents back, you can have all sort of these things. Top guild leaders get $10-20 per month. You own land or castles, etc.
Now the way this is funded is primarily by subscription, i'd have to say that lootboxes would be tempting given that people pay to own, in this way, you can pay to own and get a monthly income. But I may or may not add lootboxes. But I would add a few places where there are loading screens, like going into housing or raids or whatever and i'd have ad space scrolling by. So I could make money that way in addition to the subscriptions.
The goal would be for the ad space revenue to cover the paying out the players.
That's my idea. i'm + or - on P2W or lootbox elements.
There's playing a game for fun adn then there's playing a game where you can actually profit to some degree.
Cryomatrix
That's a Pandora's Box that will be opened by the big corporations. I don't want it because it will taint the game design. You're already talking about something that best functions in Themepark style instances.
Make another game like Asheron's call features. Skill system, combat system, movement system, open world, housing, quests style(dungeon crawler, no ABC crap quest) Ability to dodge magic spell, arrows, auto attack melees with speed/power, can build up jump height/run speed skills. Very fast paced mmorpg, mostly solo content, very few raid contents. Auto follow feature would be nice.
no holding hand at all. When you start your character you go wherever you please! No linear quest crap
Asheron's Call was the best. Way ahead of it's time.
In short, there would a list of skills you had, and the more you did them, the better you got.
Also, As you learned some skills, it would Unlock others tho, but in a manner that made sense.
IE: After you learned enough about say... Tracking, you could unlock the Trapping Skill, and they would work together, Tracking would help you know best where to put the trap, and the Trapping Skill would help you set the Trap up.
Progressive Unlocks.
What this means, is that players would first need to learn about something before they could do it. Like for example, before your character can buy a boat and just go sailing, they would first need to learn some boating skills, typically by working on someone else's boat, so they could learn the basics.
Before you try to jump on the back of a horse, you would first need to learn about them, maybe working on a farm or a stable.
This would be the drive of NPC's, they would not give you "quests" they would employ you to help them.
Which brings us to the Next Part.
You're not a Hero.
Too often games start you off as this ass kicker of some kind, but, that is not the way I would roll, No.. you don't start out as a "hero" you start out as a starry eyed noob, hoping one day to become a legend in your own right.
That means you start out with very basic stuff, like.. a clueless wonder who has a better chance to nut-chock themselves with a sword then they do killing a monster.
Deep hidden Lore.
Well. It would have Lore. a Deep rich Lore, that the players would need to talk to the NPC's to figure out and piece together. This would lead to 'quests' being linked to the lore, like having players brave catacombs to find tomes and relics of the past, to learn about the lore of the world.
This would go back to Progressive Unlocks, like for example, the more you lean about Deities, at some point you would reach a knowledge level about them that would open the opportunity to pick which one you want to follow directly, and be a "follower" of. Which would unlock the ability to use divine magic bestowed by that Deity.
Aging, Death, and Reincarnation.
Fuck Yah.. you're gonna die!
Nothing makes a game matter like knowing time is passing. Much like life, what was yesterday is not the same as what will be tomorrow, and I never liked the idea that my character was more a mannequin then 'person'
Also, nothing adds thrill like the prospect of dying.. and not just getting back up to try the same failed tactic again, and again.. and again.. till it works.
No.. see, the way this game would work is, death would be, mainly "Real" but only to a point. Like anything, newbs would be protected, where death just kinda Knocks you out and Mommy comes and saves your dumb ass, until you grow up enough to be an Adult (Yah, aging working for you! )
but once you become an Adult.. Shit gets real... just like real life.
But, I can't say I like the idea of "You are your own child" kind of deal, so the way I would do it, is a Reincarnation type of deal. Where your "soul" is eternal, and passes from one life to another life.
Which brings us to the next point.
You Could be Your Own Hero.
Too often games make you start as a hero you never were, some golden child, or major ass kicker with no memory.. or something along those lines.
But with my reincarnation system, Your next life would be able to recall parts of the previous life, this meaning, yes.. you are the hero you had made yourself to be in a previous life. Which.. makes sense.
Also, what you continued to progress you would get better at.
To use a simple example: Lets say, your first time through, you really liked using Greatswords, your next life would have a "talent" for using Greatswords. You would learn it faster, be better at it etc.
Also, if your previous life was famous, or had a massive positive reputation among the community, people would mistake your next life for your previous life "You remind me so much of SuperAmzinGuy" or some such type of thing, thus you would get discounts, and the like.
So the idea is You are an Eternal Soul, traveling from life to life.
User Generated Content:
This would be a massive part of the game. Everything outside the Starting lands, would be player made and created.
Additional map areas, would be designed and made by players.
Weapons Armor Buildings Pets Mounts Character Models Dungeons Mobs Boss Mobs etc..
All of It would be allowed to be made by the players. Players could opt to just play in a Creator Mode, and add whatever they like to the game to keep building it and expanding upon it.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
In short, there would a list of skills you had, and the more you did them, the better you got.
Also, As you learned some skills, it would Unlock others tho, but in a manner that made sense.
IE: After you learned enough about say... Tracking, you could unlock the Trapping Skill, and they would work together, Tracking would help you know best where to put the trap, and the Trapping Skill would help you set the Trap up.
Progressive Unlocks.
What this means, is that players would first need to learn about something before they could do it. Like for example, before your character can buy a boat and just go sailing, they would first need to learn some boating skills, typically by working on someone else's boat, so they could learn the basics.
Before you try to jump on the back of a horse, you would first need to learn about them, maybe working on a farm or a stable.
This would be the drive of NPC's, they would not give you "quests" they would employ you to help them.
Which brings us to the Next Part.
You're not a Hero.
Too often games start you off as this ass kicker of some kind, but, that is not the way I would roll, No.. you don't start out as a "hero" you start out as a starry eyed noob, hoping one day to become a legend in your own right.
That means you start out with very basic stuff, like.. a clueless wonder who has a better chance to nut-chock themselves with a sword then they do killing a monster.
Deep hidden Lore.
Well. It would have Lore. a Deep rich Lore, that the players would need to talk to the NPC's to figure out and piece together. This would lead to 'quests' being linked to the lore, like having players brave catacombs to find tomes and relics of the past, to learn about the lore of the world.
This would go back to Progressive Unlocks, like for example, the more you lean about Deities, at some point you would reach a knowledge level about them that would open the opportunity to pick which one you want to follow directly, and be a "follower" of. Which would unlock the ability to use divine magic bestowed by that Deity.
Aging, Death, and Reincarnation.
Fuck Yah.. you're gonna die!
Nothing makes a game matter like knowing time is passing. Much like life, what was yesterday is not the same as what will be tomorrow, and I never liked the idea that my character was more a mannequin then 'person'
Also, nothing adds thrill like the prospect of dying.. and not just getting back up to try the same failed tactic again, and again.. and again.. till it works.
No.. see, the way this game would work is, death would be, mainly "Real" but only to a point. Like anything, newbs would be protected, where death just kinda Knocks you out and Mommy comes and saves your dumb ass, until you grow up enough to be an Adult (Yah, aging working for you! )
but once you become an Adult.. Shit gets real... just like real life.
But, I can't say I like the idea of "You are your own child" kind of deal, so the way I would do it, is a Reincarnation type of deal. Where your "soul" is eternal, and passes from one life to another life.
Which brings us to the next point.
You Could be Your Own Hero.
Too often games make you start as a hero you never were, some golden child, or major ass kicker with no memory.. or something along those lines.
But with my reincarnation system, Your next life would be able to recall parts of the previous life, this meaning, yes.. you are the hero you had made yourself to be in a previous life. Which.. makes sense.
Also, what you continued to progress you would get better at.
To use a simple example: Lets say, your first time through, you really liked using Greatswords, your next life would have a "talent" for using Greatswords. You would learn it faster, be better at it etc.
Also, if your previous life was famous, or had a massive positive reputation among the community, people would mistake your next life for your previous life "You remind me so much of SuperAmzinGuy" or some such type of thing, thus you would get discounts, and the like.
So the idea is You are an Eternal Soul, traveling from life to life.
User Generated Content:
This would be a massive part of the game. Everything outside the Starting lands, would be player made and created.
Additional map areas, would be designed and made by players.
Weapons Armor Buildings Pets Mounts Character Models Dungeons Mobs Boss Mobs etc..
All of It would be allowed to be made by the players. Players could opt to just play in a Creator Mode, and add whatever they like to the game to keep building it and expanding upon it.
I like this a lot, and in fact it hits on some stuff that I've always wanted to see in a Sandbox MMORPG.
One thing stands out, your "Progressive Unlocks". I've mentioned this a few times over the years around here, and here's an example. Building arches.
So, a player starts out with the basics and can build mantled doorways, those with straight stone slabs above the opening.
And out there in the rich explorable world are ruins of the ancients where a few have arches still standing. So a player with enough skill in stone masonry can go there, and spend a little time studying how they built the arches, and gain a chance to build one themselves.
Being able to study a workshop of the ancients, where the stone measuring and cutting took place, grants a bigger boost to the skill. And finding an ancient tome about the subject (that can be read), grants an even bigger boost. (And for those ancient tomes that CAN'T BE READ, how about deciphering ancient languages? That should be a big thing too.)
I don't really care for the idea that a player has to work for an NPC to learn the basics of something, but I could live with that in such a game.
User Generated Content is something I'm not keen on because they can create stuff for their own advantage. If you know where the secret room with a hidden treasure is, that's an advantage. Ya know? I'm not sure about legal issues and such too.
The dreams of some people here would mean a so expensive MMO that would put the most expensive AAA game into shame. Its not realistic even for a big company.
either you know how to design a game or you dont. some people have it and some people dont. if you have to ask...
No, that's not true at all. Game design is a learned skill like any other. Some may be naturally talented at it, but like any skill it can be improved upon with experience and practice.
either you know how to design a game or you dont. some people have it and some people dont. if you have to ask...
No, that's not true at all. Game design is a learned skill like any other. Some may be naturally talented at it, but like any skill it can be improved upon with experience and practice.
Yup and also.. What people are commenting on is game design from a vision point of view rather than every specific design choice. Of course it is extremely hard to get a vision to manifest itself into game, and it is only distantly possible for an experienced game developer to succeed in.. but the vision itself is not something that is limited to professionals.
Mine would include action combat and impressive modern graphics that simulate realism, similar to that of BDO. There would be 0 quests and each character starts out naked all over a barren world, similar to many survival games but without eating or drinking mechanics. Within this barren world would be nothing but untouched wilderness whose destiny and direction would need to be carved out directly by the players actions.
There would be no safe zones from npc's or players, and different servers for pvp and pve rulesets. As players expanded and begin to inhabit this world the world would push back, primitive natives, wild beasts, etc. would become more and more aggressive towards players and their settlements. Will player-kind reach past the stone age or will their progress be erased by the very world they seek to elevate, tune in never to find out!
Haxus Council Member 21 year MMO veteran PvP Raid Leader Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
I cannot tell you had badly awkward movement can ruin a game, so a smooth sense of mobility would be a must.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Simple feature list: Combat Gathering and building buildings that accumulate materials. Crafting. Settlement/guild warfare.
Kind of like an rts where one player is/can only move/ one unit.
This reminds me of 2 games that I would consider some of the funnest games I have ever played. Shattered galaxy and Fantasy earth zero.
Fantasy earth zero was a action rpg rts 50vs50 battle field that had resource gathering because you could build mech like units which were limited per side. and you had to build tower which gave you victory points by controlling parts of the map and the skills were very very simple in my opinion.
as shattered galaxy also had a campaign map and could be 50vs50 players each player controlled a squard from 1-9+ units and if you lost your squad you were able to reinfoce after a set amount of time but you had units in reserve like an amry make that you made based on your characters attribute and unit/squads had many rolls so it required alot of team work. with take and hold type objectives hard to explain without playing it. but there was normaly between 1 to 5 controll points I think only 1 map had 1.
In short, there would a list of skills you had, and the more you did them, the better you got.
Also, As you learned some skills, it would Unlock others tho, but in a manner that made sense.
IE: After you learned enough about say... Tracking, you could unlock the Trapping Skill, and they would work together, Tracking would help you know best where to put the trap, and the Trapping Skill would help you set the Trap up.
Progressive Unlocks.
What this means, is that players would first need to learn about something before they could do it. Like for example, before your character can buy a boat and just go sailing, they would first need to learn some boating skills, typically by working on someone else's boat, so they could learn the basics.
Before you try to jump on the back of a horse, you would first need to learn about them, maybe working on a farm or a stable.
This would be the drive of NPC's, they would not give you "quests" they would employ you to help them.
Which brings us to the Next Part.
You're not a Hero.
Too often games start you off as this ass kicker of some kind, but, that is not the way I would roll, No.. you don't start out as a "hero" you start out as a starry eyed noob, hoping one day to become a legend in your own right.
That means you start out with very basic stuff, like.. a clueless wonder who has a better chance to nut-chock themselves with a sword then they do killing a monster.
Deep hidden Lore.
Well. It would have Lore. a Deep rich Lore, that the players would need to talk to the NPC's to figure out and piece together. This would lead to 'quests' being linked to the lore, like having players brave catacombs to find tomes and relics of the past, to learn about the lore of the world.
This would go back to Progressive Unlocks, like for example, the more you lean about Deities, at some point you would reach a knowledge level about them that would open the opportunity to pick which one you want to follow directly, and be a "follower" of. Which would unlock the ability to use divine magic bestowed by that Deity.
Aging, Death, and Reincarnation.
Fuck Yah.. you're gonna die!
Nothing makes a game matter like knowing time is passing. Much like life, what was yesterday is not the same as what will be tomorrow, and I never liked the idea that my character was more a mannequin then 'person'
Also, nothing adds thrill like the prospect of dying.. and not just getting back up to try the same failed tactic again, and again.. and again.. till it works.
No.. see, the way this game would work is, death would be, mainly "Real" but only to a point. Like anything, newbs would be protected, where death just kinda Knocks you out and Mommy comes and saves your dumb ass, until you grow up enough to be an Adult (Yah, aging working for you! )
but once you become an Adult.. Shit gets real... just like real life.
But, I can't say I like the idea of "You are your own child" kind of deal, so the way I would do it, is a Reincarnation type of deal. Where your "soul" is eternal, and passes from one life to another life.
Which brings us to the next point.
You Could be Your Own Hero.
Too often games make you start as a hero you never were, some golden child, or major ass kicker with no memory.. or something along those lines.
But with my reincarnation system, Your next life would be able to recall parts of the previous life, this meaning, yes.. you are the hero you had made yourself to be in a previous life. Which.. makes sense.
Also, what you continued to progress you would get better at.
To use a simple example: Lets say, your first time through, you really liked using Greatswords, your next life would have a "talent" for using Greatswords. You would learn it faster, be better at it etc.
Also, if your previous life was famous, or had a massive positive reputation among the community, people would mistake your next life for your previous life "You remind me so much of SuperAmzinGuy" or some such type of thing, thus you would get discounts, and the like.
So the idea is You are an Eternal Soul, traveling from life to life.
User Generated Content:
This would be a massive part of the game. Everything outside the Starting lands, would be player made and created.
Additional map areas, would be designed and made by players.
Weapons Armor Buildings Pets Mounts Character Models Dungeons Mobs Boss Mobs etc..
All of It would be allowed to be made by the players. Players could opt to just play in a Creator Mode, and add whatever they like to the game to keep building it and expanding upon it.
I like this a lot, and in fact it hits on some stuff that I've always wanted to see in a Sandbox MMORPG.
One thing stands out, your "Progressive Unlocks". I've mentioned this a few times over the years around here, and here's an example. Building arches.
So, a player starts out with the basics and can build mantled doorways, those with straight stone slabs above the opening.
And out there in the rich explorable world are ruins of the ancients where a few have arches still standing. So a player with enough skill in stone masonry can go there, and spend a little time studying how they built the arches, and gain a chance to build one themselves.
Being able to study a workshop of the ancients, where the stone measuring and cutting took place, grants a bigger boost to the skill. And finding an ancient tome about the subject (that can be read), grants an even bigger boost. (And for those ancient tomes that CAN'T BE READ, how about deciphering ancient languages? That should be a big thing too.)
I don't really care for the idea that a player has to work for an NPC to learn the basics of something, but I could live with that in such a game.
User Generated Content is something I'm not keen on because they can create stuff for their own advantage. If you know where the secret room with a hidden treasure is, that's an advantage. Ya know? I'm not sure about legal issues and such too.
Good post, and entertaining read.
I loved the UGC of games like the Sims.
So to me, giving players the tools and freedom to create additions to the game world seems like a natural state of social multi-player game.
As for hidden rooms of treasure, well, Neverwinter had design features that stopped that kind of thing, IE: a designer could not place nor pick the treasure.
So systems along those lines would need to be in place.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
So to me, giving players the tools and freedom to create additions to the game world seems like a natural state of social multi-player game.
As for hidden rooms of treasure, well, Neverwinter had design features that stopped that kind of thing, IE: a designer could not place nor pick the treasure.
So systems along those lines would need to be in place.
I've always wanted to make a game with user generated content but how can it be done well without curating it somehow? When people just spam poor content I'm not sure it makes up for some well-designed content made by someone with an experienced eye for the art of it.
Simple feature list: Combat Gathering and building buildings that accumulate materials. Crafting. Settlement/guild warfare.
Kind of like an rts where one player is/can only move/ one unit.
I think this is kind of what Civilization Online was/is supposed to be. It's been in closed beta in Korea for almost three years now without anything being announced, though, so it might have been abandoned.
So to me, giving players the tools and freedom to create additions to the game world seems like a natural state of social multi-player game.
As for hidden rooms of treasure, well, Neverwinter had design features that stopped that kind of thing, IE: a designer could not place nor pick the treasure.
So systems along those lines would need to be in place.
I've always wanted to make a game with user generated content but how can it be done well without curating it somehow? When people just spam poor content I'm not sure it makes up for some well-designed content made by someone with an experienced eye for the art of it.
That's a great question, and on ea friend asked as we were talking about this topic.
It would be a 3 part system.
Creators vs Curators
This is an idea where, Players are Open to Create whatever they like, but before it can be put into the game for the public, Someone else needs to willing to buy it.
So basically imagine a huge auction house of player made content, everything from Entire Zone Maps, to something simple as a hit or gloves.
The person who buys it, buys the ownership of that item.
The items would be up for sale for a week before they were removed from the game. So this auction house is for investors, think a distributors, craters, etc. Keep in mind you could buy your own content, but.. you would still need to buy it before it went live.
Now this auction house would both RMT and In-game credit, the creator gets to pick, and the Creators would get the money from the sale (minus a auction house fees). However, they need to pay to put the item up. at least 10% of the asking value (which they would not get back if the item did not sell)
If after a week the item was not sold, it would get deleted from the game.
Now, for items, they would buy the pattern rights to make the Outfits, Gear, Weapons, etc .They could of course opt to sell those pattern rights or just the pattern, which means Player made Content could be Exclusive to a Single Trades person, or many crafts people could make the same player made content.
for Pets, you would get breeding rights, IE: You get the Pet, male and female, to breed to make more to sell. Or you could sell those pets as one of a kind. That is up to whoever bought it.
Dungeons: This would be a bit more complex. As a caretaker of said content, you could not in effect play it. IE: You could not run your own Dungeon for loot and Rewards.
But you could however, play any Mob in the dungeon including the Boss Mob, if you wanted to have some fun that way. You would get a minor bit of reward for every time someone played your dungeon, there would also be a vote feature as well, and the more, higher votes you got, the more money and rewards you would get.
Zones: You would be the curator of the Zone, you would have to denote if the zone was public or private. Private Zones would be just that, your personal home Zone, for you to play with and those you allowed in.
Public Zones would zones that you made open to the public where they could buy land, kill mobs, and cultivate the areas. You however, could not enter this zone, save though NPC, so, if say someone was doing something you did not like, you would need to engage them though NPC activity, like massive swarms of mobs or playing a big boss mob to drive them out.
Time Limit:
Content Creators would be allowed to create at most 1 item a week.,and would need to play the game for at least a month before they could put anything up. They could put up more items, but would need to pay for that.
They would have to Buy the Tools.
This is really the big part. The tools to create content would not be free. Players would need to Buy them.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
Anyone can attack anyone, anytime, anywhere.
--> BUT ...
if you attack someone outside of "sanctioned" PvP, you are flagged as a criminal.
Criminal penalties aren't that bad at first. But they add up.
Penalties are stat + skill loss. Jail doesn't cut it.
So, lets say you PK one player. You get caught by his guild. You get the penalty. You can live with it. 'It's just a scratch."
This allows players to take care of those jerks who ruin player events and spam crap or whatever. At a small cost.
But if you've PKed too many, the accumulated stat and skill loss really hurts your character because at some point it begins to compound. Now you can't effectively PK either. (Except newbies, maybe. May have to add a perma-death mode if a stat or skill goes to 0. I like this idea anyways for another reason.)
Sanctioned PvP is guild wars, expanded to city wars. Allies included.
But it does not apply to all guild members. Only those who have joined the guild's "military" or "guard". This protects a guild's crafts players who don't want PvP. It allows guilds to be more robust in membership.
Plus the artifact system.
Certain items, places, and things can cause warfare in a radius for on-the-fly PvP within the game world. This is outside of wars. Such artifacts have to be attuned to the guilds involved (cult, sect, order, whatever) by choice upon creation of the guild.
Sets of these things (artifacts) would be pre-created based on deities, ideals (culture), etc.
And these things would be initially hidden in the game world. This is a game big on exploration and discovery, remember?
And new artifacts can be created through ongoing lore events. (MOB drops too.)
But war doesn't start just by entering the radius effect.
--> First, someone has to pick it up. <--
They and their group (but not the rest of their guild, and not the competing guilds), are flagged for "war". So far, no one else is.
This next step sounds like it a needless extra step, but it's not. It's part of the criminal flag system and can be used here too.
-If someone from a competing guild attacks one of the flagged group, they become flagged too (and their group).
-From that point on, this "war" becomes a one off "Battle".
-Any member of either guild that's not flagged as part of one of these groups can enter this "Battle" by attacking someone who's already flagged. This includes a flagged player who leaves the radius of the artifact's affects. But not other guild members who aren't flagged.
In either case, "War" or "Battle", non-military guild members can join the combat by attacking an enemy who's flagged for "War/Battle", becoming flagged for war themselves.
Any character that dies in a war or battle cannot be flagged for that war or battle again. They are out of said war for the duration. This allows victory conditions.
Want to do it again? Just declare another war. Or find another artifact. Or attack the place where the artifact resides, because the radius effect is permanent.
But such places can be enhanced for defense, as I stated in a previous post. These enhancement become much stronger when said place (Temple, for example) is "closed", doors are locked, and only members already inside can use it's assets. This protects off/late hour attacks when few members are online. There would have to be a limit on the number of players allowed inside a "closed" temple Guild Grounds, or other.
I think I got it all.
Once upon a time....
On the cultural "War/Battle" level...
Lets say the game has Pixie playable characters.
Lets say that Pixies live in an Enchanted Forest, because that's the only place where a certain type of Mushroom grows that they need to eat to replenish a certain power of theirs.
In this case, certain flora and fauna of this Enchanted Forest could be part of the Pixie's "Artifacts" system.
Killing or cutting down said "Artifacts" would start this system in motion, taking resources from these things are "Artifacts" too. Radius effects apply.
Pixie players wouldn't HAVE to enter PvP, but they can, and defend their Forrest.
See how this can be used to make a world full meaningful events?
Also, BOSS MOBs might be able to deal damage that affects stats. Meaning that certain powerful MOBs (Ancient Dragons, as an example) would be very dangerous, and can perma-kill a character. I'd balance that by setting the math so that the player would have to be healed several times BEFORE DYING for that to happen. In most cases, anyways.
I'd also only allow this power IN THE LAIR of the Boss.
Where all the RICHES and LOOT are.
Risk vs. Reward on a grand scale.
Once upon a time....
It is influenced that I just went back into the Project Entropia. But I have to say I love the real cash economy. I would hope to do it a bit differently than Project Entropia.
I'd have the game be on a subscription. But I'd have in-game mechanism to either reduce your monthly subscription based on in-game actions or to actually make money from playing the game.
I like the Plex idea EVE has but an additional idea I would have is that certain in-game roles will draw money out automatically and can actually put money into your account.
For example, there will be certain loots that will either trigger a payback to your account or at least the option to do it. High risk and high reward. People who rank highly in their profession, will be able to get monthly prizes from the company.
For example, if you're the top ranked sword crafter you get free monthly service. If your items are used the most out of all that is crafted, then you get $5 in your account monthly. You can have a whole slew of things.
You successfully beat a raid, you get 25 cents back, you can have all sort of these things. Top guild leaders get $10-20 per month. You own land or castles, etc.
Now the way this is funded is primarily by subscription, i'd have to say that lootboxes would be tempting given that people pay to own, in this way, you can pay to own and get a monthly income. But I may or may not add lootboxes. But I would add a few places where there are loading screens, like going into housing or raids or whatever and i'd have ad space scrolling by. So I could make money that way in addition to the subscriptions.
The goal would be for the ad space revenue to cover the paying out the players.
That's my idea. i'm + or - on P2W or lootbox elements.
There's playing a game for fun adn then there's playing a game where you can actually profit to some degree.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I don't want it because it will taint the game design.
You're already talking about something that best functions in Themepark style instances.
Once upon a time....
Skill Trees based on Activity not Level.
In short, there would a list of skills you had, and the more you did them, the better you got.Also, As you learned some skills, it would Unlock others tho, but in a manner that made sense.
IE: After you learned enough about say... Tracking, you could unlock the Trapping Skill, and they would work together, Tracking would help you know best where to put the trap, and the Trapping Skill would help you set the Trap up.
Progressive Unlocks.
What this means, is that players would first need to learn about something before they could do it. Like for example, before your character can buy a boat and just go sailing, they would first need to learn some boating skills, typically by working on someone else's boat, so they could learn the basics.Before you try to jump on the back of a horse, you would first need to learn about them, maybe working on a farm or a stable.
This would be the drive of NPC's, they would not give you "quests" they would employ you to help them.
Which brings us to the Next Part.
You're not a Hero.
Too often games start you off as this ass kicker of some kind, but, that is not the way I would roll, No.. you don't start out as a "hero" you start out as a starry eyed noob, hoping one day to become a legend in your own right.That means you start out with very basic stuff, like.. a clueless wonder who has a better chance to nut-chock themselves with a sword then they do killing a monster.
Deep hidden Lore.
Well. It would have Lore. a Deep rich Lore, that the players would need to talk to the NPC's to figure out and piece together. This would lead to 'quests' being linked to the lore, like having players brave catacombs to find tomes and relics of the past, to learn about the lore of the world.This would go back to Progressive Unlocks, like for example, the more you lean about Deities, at some point you would reach a knowledge level about them that would open the opportunity to pick which one you want to follow directly, and be a "follower" of. Which would unlock the ability to use divine magic bestowed by that Deity.
Aging, Death, and Reincarnation.
Fuck Yah.. you're gonna die!Nothing makes a game matter like knowing time is passing. Much like life, what was yesterday is not the same as what will be tomorrow, and I never liked the idea that my character was more a mannequin then 'person'
Also, nothing adds thrill like the prospect of dying.. and not just getting back up to try the same failed tactic again, and again.. and again.. till it works.
No.. see, the way this game would work is, death would be, mainly "Real" but only to a point. Like anything, newbs would be protected, where death just kinda Knocks you out and Mommy comes and saves your dumb ass, until you grow up enough to be an Adult (Yah, aging working for you! )
but once you become an Adult.. Shit gets real... just like real life.
But, I can't say I like the idea of "You are your own child" kind of deal, so the way I would do it, is a Reincarnation type of deal. Where your "soul" is eternal, and passes from one life to another life.
Which brings us to the next point.
You Could be Your Own Hero.
Too often games make you start as a hero you never were, some golden child, or major ass kicker with no memory.. or something along those lines.But with my reincarnation system, Your next life would be able to recall parts of the previous life, this meaning, yes.. you are the hero you had made yourself to be in a previous life. Which.. makes sense.
Also, what you continued to progress you would get better at.
To use a simple example: Lets say, your first time through, you really liked using Greatswords, your next life would have a "talent" for using Greatswords. You would learn it faster, be better at it etc.
Also, if your previous life was famous, or had a massive positive reputation among the community, people would mistake your next life for your previous life "You remind me so much of SuperAmzinGuy" or some such type of thing, thus you would get discounts, and the like.
So the idea is You are an Eternal Soul, traveling from life to life.
User Generated Content:
This would be a massive part of the game. Everything outside the Starting lands, would be player made and created.
Additional map areas, would be designed and made by players.
Weapons
Armor
Buildings
Pets
Mounts
Character Models
Dungeons
Mobs
Boss Mobs
etc..
All of It would be allowed to be made by the players. Players could opt to just play in a Creator Mode, and add whatever they like to the game to keep building it and expanding upon it.
Dynamic missions/Quest based on the desires of a faction.
Player and Game Dev Employee owned Factions. (No Static Computer NPC Factions.)
Finite Faction Bank Accounts. (No infinite money to dole out on quest completion)
Ea is like a poo fingered midas ~ShakyMo
One thing stands out, your "Progressive Unlocks".
I've mentioned this a few times over the years around here, and here's an example.
Building arches.
So, a player starts out with the basics and can build mantled doorways, those with straight stone slabs above the opening.
And out there in the rich explorable world are ruins of the ancients where a few have arches still standing. So a player with enough skill in stone masonry can go there, and spend a little time studying how they built the arches, and gain a chance to build one themselves.
Being able to study a workshop of the ancients, where the stone measuring and cutting took place, grants a bigger boost to the skill. And finding an ancient tome about the subject (that can be read), grants an even bigger boost.
(And for those ancient tomes that CAN'T BE READ, how about deciphering ancient languages? That should be a big thing too.)
I don't really care for the idea that a player has to work for an NPC to learn the basics of something, but I could live with that in such a game.
User Generated Content is something I'm not keen on because they can create stuff for their own advantage. If you know where the secret room with a hidden treasure is, that's an advantage. Ya know?
I'm not sure about legal issues and such too.
Good post, and entertaining read.
Once upon a time....
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
There would be no safe zones from npc's or players, and different servers for pvp and pve rulesets. As players expanded and begin to inhabit this world the world would push back, primitive natives, wild beasts, etc. would become more and more aggressive towards players and their settlements. Will player-kind reach past the stone age or will their progress be erased by the very world they seek to elevate, tune in never to find out!
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Combat
Gathering and building buildings that accumulate materials.
Crafting.
Settlement/guild warfare.
Kind of like an rts where one player is/can only move/ one unit.
That's a good way of putting it.
I think some strategy game design should definitely be in the next great MMORPG.
You left out a lot of details, but this much I definitely like.
Once upon a time....
Smooth Mobility.
I cannot tell you had badly awkward movement can ruin a game, so a smooth sense of mobility would be a must.
Fantasy earth zero was a action rpg rts 50vs50 battle field that had resource gathering because you could build mech like units which were limited per side. and you had to build tower which gave you victory points by controlling parts of the map and the skills were very very simple in my opinion.
as shattered galaxy also had a campaign map and could be 50vs50 players each player controlled a squard from 1-9+ units and if you lost your squad you were able to reinfoce after a set amount of time but you had units in reserve like an amry make that you made based on your characters attribute and unit/squads had many rolls so it required alot of team work. with take and hold type objectives hard to explain without playing it. but there was normaly between 1 to 5 controll points I think only 1 map had 1.
So to me, giving players the tools and freedom to create additions to the game world seems like a natural state of social multi-player game.
As for hidden rooms of treasure, well, Neverwinter had design features that stopped that kind of thing, IE: a designer could not place nor pick the treasure.
So systems along those lines would need to be in place.
It would be a 3 part system.
Creators vs Curators
This is an idea where, Players are Open to Create whatever they like, but before it can be put into the game for the public, Someone else needs to willing to buy it.
So basically imagine a huge auction house of player made content, everything from Entire Zone Maps, to something simple as a hit or gloves.
The person who buys it, buys the ownership of that item.
The items would be up for sale for a week before they were removed from the game. So this auction house is for investors, think a distributors, craters, etc. Keep in mind you could buy your own content, but.. you would still need to buy it before it went live.
Now this auction house would both RMT and In-game credit, the creator gets to pick, and the Creators would get the money from the sale (minus a auction house fees). However, they need to pay to put the item up. at least 10% of the asking value (which they would not get back if the item did not sell)
If after a week the item was not sold, it would get deleted from the game.
Now, for items, they would buy the pattern rights to make the Outfits, Gear, Weapons, etc .They could of course opt to sell those pattern rights or just the pattern, which means Player made Content could be Exclusive to a Single Trades person, or many crafts people could make the same player made content.
for Pets, you would get breeding rights, IE: You get the Pet, male and female, to breed to make more to sell. Or you could sell those pets as one of a kind. That is up to whoever bought it.
Dungeons: This would be a bit more complex. As a caretaker of said content, you could not in effect play it. IE: You could not run your own Dungeon for loot and Rewards.
But you could however, play any Mob in the dungeon including the Boss Mob, if you wanted to have some fun that way. You would get a minor bit of reward for every time someone played your dungeon, there would also be a vote feature as well, and the more, higher votes you got, the more money and rewards you would get.
Zones: You would be the curator of the Zone, you would have to denote if the zone was public or private. Private Zones would be just that, your personal home Zone, for you to play with and those you allowed in.
Public Zones would zones that you made open to the public where they could buy land, kill mobs, and cultivate the areas. You however, could not enter this zone, save though NPC, so, if say someone was doing something you did not like, you would need to engage them though NPC activity, like massive swarms of mobs or playing a big boss mob to drive them out.
Time Limit:
Content Creators would be allowed to create at most 1 item a week.,and would need to play the game for at least a month before they could put anything up. They could put up more items, but would need to pay for that.
They would have to Buy the Tools.
This is really the big part. The tools to create content would not be free. Players would need to Buy them.