Guild Wars 2, Blade & Soul, Aion All Make Gains in Q4 2017 - MMORPG.com News

SBFord

Guild Wars 2, Blade & Soul, Aion All Make Gains in Q4 2017 - MMORPG.com News

NCSoft has posted its Q4 2017 and its Yearly Earnings Report to investors. The company showed huge profits of 79% year-on-year. Operation profit was also up 78%. For the first time in years, Lineage lost money, while Guild Wars 2, Blade & Soul and Aion made good gains in Q4.

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gervaise1

Guild Wars 2, Blade & Soul, Aion All Make Gains in Q4 2017 ... but mobile games still dominate.

SBFord

gervaise1 said:

Guild Wars 2, Blade & Soul, Aion All Make Gains in Q4 2017 ... but mobile games still dominate.

True but, you know...this is an MMO site and we don't want to bruise anyone's delicate sensibilities by mentioning mobile games. Them's fightin' words round these parts.

Aeander

Looks like Path of Fire provided a pretty decent bump. Hopefully the living story ahead can keep up the pace until expansion 3 drops in a couple years. They're off to a great start this season.

Thupli

Oh, I'm sure half of the gw2 folks are working on a guild wars mobile game at this point.

Aeander

Thupli said:

Oh, I'm sure half of the gw2 folks are working on a guild wars mobile game at this point.

"Guild Wars 3 will be everything you loved about Guild Wars 2, but on your cell phone."

Capodecina

gervaise1 said:

Guild Wars 2, Blade & Soul, Aion All Make Gains in Q4 2017 ... but mobile games still dominate.

Yes ! It amazes me that people think 60€ on a AAA pc
Or console game is a waste but atthe same time drp hundrets of Euro into mobile games.

The difference to me is Video games provide you with fun and a sense of accomplishment but the games usually found on the mobile phone platforms cater to the gamblers. They exploit that high you get hence the rng boxes etc. Games that use rng boxes should get taxed as gambling services and be treated by the authorities like that.

Sovrath

Capodecina said:

gervaise1 said:

Guild Wars 2, Blade & Soul, Aion All Make Gains in Q4 2017 ... but mobile games still dominate.

Yes ! It amazes me that people think 60€ on a AAA pc
Or console game is a waste but atthe same time drp hundrets of Euro into mobile games.

Just because some people think 60€ is expensive for a game doesn't mean the same people drop hundreds on mobile games.

A more accurate statement is that "some people think 60€ is expensive for games and some people also spend hundreds on Mobile games".

I'm going to guess that anyone who thinks 60€ is expensive is NOT dropping the same if not more on a mobile game.

Bloodaxes

The thing with mobile games is that you see a 1 dollar fee and say; sure why not? It's cheap! Fast forward a couple transactions and you have spent a lot more.

Small transactions mask the big cost unlike a big 60 dollar game which hits you in your face + dlc and extra crap.

Not that I play any mobile games, but it's easy to see why many fall for it.

Panther2103

Elidien said:

Isn't Wildstar NCSoft? No mention anywhere?

This happened in another quarter as well. It doesn't make enough to be listed, but is listed under "Other" or something similar. 

ConstantineMerus

Elidien said:

Isn't Wildstar NCSoft? No mention anywhere?

You can't mention Wildstar without a proper seance at NCSoft anymore. 

Sovrath

Bloodaxes said:

The thing with mobile games is that you see a 1 dollar fee and say; sure why not? It's cheap! Fast forward a couple transactions and you have spent a lot more.

Small transactions mask the big cost unlike a big 60 dollar game which hits you in your face + dlc and extra crap.

Not that I play any mobile games, but it's easy to see why many fall for it.

I agree. That's what makes it such a slippery slope. I am thinking that any responsible person would then realize they are spending inordinate amounts and just stop.

LacedOpium

Excepting mobiles, Blade & Soul is beating them all and nearly doubling GW2's yearly sales breakdown, yet you wouldn't know it by the manner in which GW2 is hyped around these parts. Makes me wonder how they compare to FFXIV, ESO, and BDO in sales. Wouldn't be surprised if they weren't doing too badly against those front runners as well.  You wouldn't know it by reading game websites and hype polls though, which says a whole lot about said game websites and hype polls.

Aeander

LacedOpium said:

Excepting mobiles, Blade & Soul beating them all and nearly doubling GW2's yearly sales breakdown yet you wouldn't know it by the manner in which GW2 is hyped around these parts. Makes me wonder how they compare to FFXIV, ESO, and BDO in sales. Wouldn't be surprised if they weren't doing too badly against those front runners as well.

That's because of the Korean market. The west is barely even an afterthought to NCSoft.

LacedOpium

Aeander said:

LacedOpium said:

Excepting mobiles, Blade & Soul beating them all and nearly doubling GW2's yearly sales breakdown yet you wouldn't know it by the manner in which GW2 is hyped around these parts. Makes me wonder how they compare to FFXIV, ESO, and BDO in sales. Wouldn't be surprised if they weren't doing too badly against those front runners as well.

That's because of the Korean market. The west is barely even an afterthought to NCSoft.

Not sure what you mean by that.  B&S has nevertheless been released in the West and possesses a competent and very well done English translation of the game and story for the West.  It is obvious that NCSoft put a great deal of effort in the game's Western release.  Everything Korea gets, the West gets, albeit with the obvious delay.  If I am not mistaken, B&S is getting a new content patch release today as we speak.  B&S is hardly an afterthought release in the West.  

pantaro

Elidien said:

Isn't Wildstar NCSoft? No mention anywhere?

I'm just here for the Wildstar comments! 

Albatroes

pantaro said:

Elidien said:

Isn't Wildstar NCSoft? No mention anywhere?

I'm just here for the Wildstar comments! 

I'm in the same boat. I thought this would mainly focus on this supposed Wildstar "revival" NCSoft is claiming to push even though everyone knows Carbine is working on another project while not implementing anything substantial to their original title in at least a year. Wildstar mobile maybe?

Ozmodan

Aion is dead, just logged in and there was hardly anyone on the server!

Panther2103

Torval said:

When you can play the real Lineage on mobile of course people are going to move over. The game is nearly 20 years old, is sprite based, and is a perfect fit for mobile. I'd even go so far as to guess there is LinMate for mobile now.

Now let us play the real Lineage on mobile too. Open Lands of Aden on mobile!

I would much rather be playing legit Lineage instead of the garbage that Lineage 2 Revolution was. Maybe the RS mobile release will show more companies launching actual MMO's on mobile is worth it instead of doing auto run pay to win crap. 

Sovrath

Ozmodan said:

Aion is dead, just logged in and there was hardly anyone on the server!

The US servers? Because it "kind of" is the middle of the work day. That's not to say it's a thriving metropolis of gaming after work hours but "come on".

gervaise1

DMKano said:

<snip>

GW2 was up by 8% for the year due to expansion pack.

Considering the dev cost of expansion packs.... is this economically viable?

Always a question that should be asked. 

I believe the answer lies in their long term financial modelling - past and present.

The impression I got when GW2 launched was that expansions were not planned. That NCSoft had asked the question: do we do expansions. And the answer they settled on was "The Living World".  So not GW1.

Post launch - I assume - things were not going as planned: maybe player retention was lower; maybe it was fewer new players maybe the cost of acquisition was to high (i.e cost of advertising divided by new players); profits lower than assumed - whatever. 

Updated plan: back to GW1.  

Which is a roundabout way of saying that the cost of the expansion is - probably - tied to more than just one quarter. (And we know that Blizzard used to report pre-xpac subscription bumps - people coming back - and falls when they stopped adding content.)

Its probably a case of what the (recent-ish) numbers are vs. the predicted mumbers would have been if they had stuck to just The Living World. And its against that backdrop NCSoft will assess the cost of the xpac.

Albatroes

Sovrath said:

Ozmodan said:

Aion is dead, just logged in and there was hardly anyone on the server!

The US servers? Because it "kind of" is the middle of the work day. That's not to say it's a thriving metropolis of gaming after work hours but "come on".

Honestly, Aion wasn't never that popular in the west (compared to the east at least). Lineage and Aion are holding pretty strong over there as well as BnS even though its younger than the two. GW2 is better received in the west over all 3 but the numbers are global so, maybe this data really shows how many are interested in gaming when it comes to west vs east.

Aeander

Albatroes said:

Sovrath said:

Ozmodan said:

Aion is dead, just logged in and there was hardly anyone on the server!

The US servers? Because it "kind of" is the middle of the work day. That's not to say it's a thriving metropolis of gaming after work hours but "come on".

Honestly, Aion wasn't never that popular in the west (compared to the east at least). Lineage and Aion are holding pretty strong over there as well as BnS even though its younger than the two. GW2 is better received in the west over all 3 but the numbers are global so, maybe this data really shows how many are interested in gaming when it comes to west vs east.

My thoughts precisely. MMOs are much more mainstream in Korea, as are excessive spending habits on video games. 

Aeander

Torval said:

Aeander said:

Albatroes said:

Sovrath said:

Ozmodan said:

Aion is dead, just logged in and there was hardly anyone on the server!

The US servers? Because it "kind of" is the middle of the work day. That's not to say it's a thriving metropolis of gaming after work hours but "come on".

Honestly, Aion wasn't never that popular in the west (compared to the east at least). Lineage and Aion are holding pretty strong over there as well as BnS even though its younger than the two. GW2 is better received in the west over all 3 but the numbers are global so, maybe this data really shows how many are interested in gaming when it comes to west vs east.

My thoughts precisely. MMOs are much more mainstream in Korea, as are excessive spending habits on video games. 

If their spending habits are considered excessive by western culture, I wonder if they consider us cheap ass tightwads unwilling to put money into their hobby.

Either GW2 doesn't have many players or they have an extensive base that isn't willing to spend much on their game. Compare that will Lineage players. There are tons of them all willing to spend at least a little every month. That's why it's been their most successful franchise and continues to be so on mobile.

I'm just saying, for as popular as GW2 is supposed to be it sure doesn't rake in the money. Why is that? Sometimes old L2 and Aion outperform it.

Honestly, I stand by my remark that it mainly comes down the afforementioned difference in spending habits (because, honestly, how much money do you think Aion or L2 are raking in from the west). Eastern MMOs rarely see massive success in the west, and are generally only localized because the money from localization outweighs the cost of doing so.

There is also the fact that Guild Wars 2's business model is too generous for its own good. There is never really a need to engage with the gem store at all, and when something from the gemstore is desired, it isn't exactly difficult to grind the gold for a gem conversion. The most lucrative item in the gem store (the black lion lootbox and their associated skins) are undercut by the fact that most of these skins can be obtained much more cheaply through trading.

LacedOpium

Aeander said:

Torval said:

Aeander said:

Albatroes said:

Sovrath said:

Ozmodan said:

Aion is dead, just logged in and there was hardly anyone on the server!

The US servers? Because it "kind of" is the middle of the work day. That's not to say it's a thriving metropolis of gaming after work hours but "come on".

Honestly, Aion wasn't never that popular in the west (compared to the east at least). Lineage and Aion are holding pretty strong over there as well as BnS even though its younger than the two. GW2 is better received in the west over all 3 but the numbers are global so, maybe this data really shows how many are interested in gaming when it comes to west vs east.

My thoughts precisely. MMOs are much more mainstream in Korea, as are excessive spending habits on video games. 

If their spending habits are considered excessive by western culture, I wonder if they consider us cheap ass tightwads unwilling to put money into their hobby.

Either GW2 doesn't have many players or they have an extensive base that isn't willing to spend much on their game. Compare that will Lineage players. There are tons of them all willing to spend at least a little every month. That's why it's been their most successful franchise and continues to be so on mobile.

I'm just saying, for as popular as GW2 is supposed to be it sure doesn't rake in the money. Why is that? Sometimes old L2 and Aion outperform it.

There is also the fact that Guild Wars 2's business model is too generous for its own good. There is never really a need to engage with the gem store at all, and when something from the gemstore is desired, it isn't exactly difficult to grind the gold for a gem conversion. The most lucrative item in the gem store (the black lion lootbox and their associated skins) are undercut by the fact that most of these skins can be obtained much more cheaply through trading.

... and why do you think GW2's business model is too generous?

Pro tip:  Re-read the first sentence in Torval's post.

Me thinks we are talking in circles here.

It is also the reason why MMORPG's in the West are going the way of the Do Do.  We should consider ourselves fortunate that the East is still willing to share their MMORPGs with our stingy, whiny, ungrateful behinds.

Renoaku

Anyone know what the Revenue is for Black Desert compared to these other games like NCsoft, Nexon, Perfect World, or Elder Scrolls Online?