Monster Hunter World - The List - 5 Things MMOs Can Learn From Monster Hunter World - MMORPG.com

SBFord

Monster Hunter World - The List - 5 Things MMOs Can Learn From Monster Hunter World - MMORPG.com

Monster Hunter World may be the first time I’ve played and enjoyed a Monster Hunter game. As an online experience, it’s not quite an MMO and yet it does plenty that I think future MMORPGs can learn from. In this list we’ll explore 5 things MMOs can learn from Capcom’s Monster Hunter World.

Read the full story here

Medown

How is Destiny 2 in the top 10 MMOs of 2017 while this game is "not not quite an mmo"

BillMurphy

DMKano said:

If MMOs had this kind of TTK - I would quit all of them.

Seriously - to me anything that takes even more than 45sec to kill in a MMO - my annoyance factor just keeps going up.

I know some people are ok with this and some even enjoy long drawn out fights - and that's awesome for them - but for the rest of us who don't like long TTK, yeah - no thanks.



I know that in monster hunter - the design is as noted - for fights to lead to progression of game and more adventure - I just still couldn't get over the TTK. It's just not for me.

I don't think every MMO mob would need a long TTK. But bosses and the like in an open world setting already do. But they're boring and static, and predictable. They could learn from MHW's monsters.

learis1

"In MHW, the whole gameplay loop is adventure, hunter monsters, collect their parts, make your loot, repeat."

Something about this gives me a knot in my stomach. I'm killing a monster to make loot to kill a stronger monster to make stronger loot, ad infinitum.

JeffSpicoli

I agree with Bill's article, this is also my first MH experience and i love the loop. Whats odd is i dislike the dark souls and bloodborne series because i find the games wayyy to difficult. As i mentioned in another post MH feels very challenging without being over the top hard. Also the game is rewarding in defeat throwing you 1 or 2 monster parts which feels gives you the sense of accomplishment for time spent.

The only place this game lacks and feels frustrating is the multiplayer options. Joining and getting a party together feels clunky and more confusing then it should be. There is not much in the way of tutorials when it comes to the whole party system and im still not sure how to launch my own ingame SOS. My other gripe is i feel like the performance on a base PS4 is lacking, Although its better from the beta(or maybe iv just gotten use to it) 25-30 fps is rough on the eyes. still wished PC would have launched along side console, I think i would be even more into this game if i had the option to play ultra wide at 60 fps with all the bells & whistles on high.

klash2def

DMKano said:

learis1 said:

"In MHW, the whole gameplay loop is adventure, hunter monsters, collect their parts, make your loot, repeat."



Something about this gives me a knot in my stomach. I'm killing a monster to make loot to kill a stronger monster to make stronger loot, ad infinitum.

In Skinner psychology this is known as "continuous reinforcement" - same principal used in game design where repeating an action results in a reward, which conditions the player to want to repeat it more for more rewards.

Rinse and repeat

all games do this. I'm not sure why people always say this as if there is a game out there that avoids this. Some do it in a better way than others but all games have an action/reward loop. 

Panther2103

learis1 said:

"In MHW, the whole gameplay loop is adventure, hunter monsters, collect their parts, make your loot, repeat."



Something about this gives me a knot in my stomach. I'm killing a monster to make loot to kill a stronger monster to make stronger loot, ad infinitum.

That's basically every MMO or progression system in general. You get stronger to take on the next thing. This game just has it all done by you instead of a level system or gear drop system.

I personally also really like the TTK on the monsters, it feels like you are taking down massive beasts instead of just spamming skills and killing things quickly. But it's also a different type of game. I don't think the MH world would lend it self all too well to an MMO landscape as it is, because the hunts would be all the less spectacular if you have 45 people taking out the same monster on farm. It would have to be instanced and that would cause it to be a little less MMORPG like.

cjmarsh

Good article, I particularly enjoyed the drawing of parallels to MMO design.

Righteous_Rock

I’ll stick to world of Warcraft thanks though.

Sovrath

DMKano said:

If MMOs had this kind of TTK - I would quit all of them.



Seriously - to me anything that takes even more than 45sec to kill in a MMO - my annoyance factor just keeps going up.



I know some people are ok with this and some even enjoy long drawn out fights - and that's awesome for them - but for the rest of us who don't like long TTK, yeah - no thanks.







I know that in monster hunter - the design is as noted - for fights to lead to progression of game and more adventure - I just still couldn't get over the TTK. It's just not for me.

Yeah, I'm one of those who love long fights. Loved fighting BAMS in Tera solo with my lancer.

I want a fight to mean something. To me, anything that's "quick" doesn't really mean anything.

I'll add that I like fighting large hordes of mobs in Black Desert as there is a certain fun to be had mowing down large groups all at once. I am so buying this game when it releases on PC.

Sovrath

learis1 said:

"In MHW, the whole gameplay loop is adventure, hunter monsters, collect their parts, make your loot, repeat."



Something about this gives me a knot in my stomach. I'm killing a monster to make loot to kill a stronger monster to make stronger loot, ad infinitum.

This is a game about battling monsters. Why wouldn't you want to be battling better monsters and different monsters with different attacks.

I think games like this are really for people who like "combat". Which is something I love.

koldmiser

I don't know...I like the game, but it barely feels like a multiplayer game let alone an MMO. The party system is such a mess and just feels like it was slapped on in the end.
As for the crafting...Ugh, I hate crafting and having to watch that cut scene over and over...OMG I want to kill those three!
I'm really enjoying the battles themselves, but I am seeing repeating patterns in the fights from different monsters.
I will agree that I think MMO's could take a lesson from this game in regards to open world monster spawns and boss fights.

Ridelynn

I've only briefly tried a couple of the MH games (and not MHW yet).

The loop didn't hook me.

It's like an MMO with only boss fights. Which for some people, that's exactly what they want. For me, I need a bit of a build up...

I like traditional WoW-style dungeon/raid design: some trash, small boss, some trash, bit bigger boss, some trash, really hard boss at the end... then the loot in a chest (or corpse) for everyone to ooh and aah about and say "GG" over. It's like a song or story - the good ones have a beginning, a middle, and an ending. MH is like.. jump straight to ending every time.

Sure, the trash and such can be long or annoying. But what is a good romp without a bit of foreplay at the beginning anyway? MH always reminded me of the schoolhouse scene in Monty Python's The Meaning of Life. What's wrong with a kiss?

That's my own opinion. I have enjoyed Final Fantasy Explorers somewhat, which is loosely MH based, but it is a bit more traditional, not just huge monsters, and TTK on the huge monsters isn't that long either (nor are their mechanics all that complicated, being a 3DS game).

Melecon

Morning Bill,

In regards to the crafting... did you ever get deep into SWG's system.... You had to go hunt down plenty of monsters to get body parts for crafting. This is beyond just getting the Kryat Pearls. RiS Armor was a pickle to get as you needed Kominglio (sp been years) dragon scales Peko Peko Feathers and a few more things to make. You could also use other parts of harvesting animals in Armor layers to make better stats for your end product. I am just saying this is not the first :P

Hariken

I watched a friend play this game. Took almost a 1/2 hour for them to kill the monster. The game will appeal to those hardcore raiders because that's what every fight is like. Even the single player fights. It just became boring to watch and he loved it. Its the number one game now. I wonder how these people will feel about it a few months from now and what will new content be just harder monsters to fight maybe. I remember my friend saying he will play Overwatch forever and now doesn't play it at all.

3dom

What most people keep forgetting when they see a good game - how many attempts it took to actually create this specific game - and how it will be absolutely impossible for other devs to replicate this functionality during 4-5 years of typical MMO development time (and how costly it will be).

Examples: Ultima Online was 8th game in the series - it used mechanics, created and polished during a decade. Dark Age of Camelot was 14th game for the company. World of Warcaft was practically "just" a single-unit Warcraft game (i.e. devs have used an experience collected during ten years, 5+ game releases and multiple expansions). No wonder that attempts to replicate these games from scratch - failed miserably.

And MHW itself is 13th iteration of the game + Capcom used similar boss fighting mechanics in other games (like Dragon's Dogma).

TL;DR replication of a game isn't easy - if possible at all.

lahnmir

Sovrath said:

DMKano said:

If MMOs had this kind of TTK - I would quit all of them.



Seriously - to me anything that takes even more than 45sec to kill in a MMO - my annoyance factor just keeps going up.



I know some people are ok with this and some even enjoy long drawn out fights - and that's awesome for them - but for the rest of us who don't like long TTK, yeah - no thanks.







I know that in monster hunter - the design is as noted - for fights to lead to progression of game and more adventure - I just still couldn't get over the TTK. It's just not for me.

Yeah, I'm one of those who love long fights. Loved fighting BAMS in Tera solo with my lancer.

I want a fight to mean something. To me, anything that's "quick" doesn't really mean anything.

I'll add that I like fighting large hordes of mobs in Black Desert as there is a certain fun to be had mowing down large groups all at once. I am so buying this game when it releases on PC.

This game is made for you. The preparations, the hunt, the chase, the kill. Fights can easily last 15 minutes or more with different phases, monsters fleeing or covering themselves in mud for extra protection for instance.

What a game.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

cameltosis

I came here expecting another piece about how to ruin the MMO genre by stealing ideas that won't work in the MMO space.

Have to say, I'm pleased to be wrong this time!

Pretty much agree with everything you've said. We could definitely do with more "thrill of the hunt" type encounters. Having to properly track down mobs, stalk them, avoid ambushes etc all sounds great. I imagine it could get tedious in a game you expect to play for months/years, but as it's already tedious with our largely static mobs this can only be an improvement.

Exciting movement....yes please! This has always been an issue in MMOs. Admittedly, just having better animations for rolling after a fall, vaulting over obstacles etc doesn't actually add anything to the game, but if you could combine it with gameplay then I'm happy. For example, adding in Zelda: BotW climbing into an MMO could start to open up interesting tactics and a more platformer style of gameplay.

Crafting.....meh. When LotRO launched, it had what you described. You had to hunt down specific mobs for specific items used to craft specific weapons and armour. I personally enjoyed it, but ultimately it just resulted in a lot of mob spawn camping and made high end crafting inaccessible to a lot of people. It also doesn't tackle the issue that crafting itself remains boring. The interesting bits in your scenario are the gathering (which is just combat) and the end result (useful stuff). You would need to stop designing MMORPGs around loot for the end result to matter, and I can't see that happening.

Pets.....meh again. I personally don't like pets, but as to your more fundamental point about giving us enough options so that we become closely attached to our characters I definitely agree on. Being able to customise / personalise your character is a big part of MMORPGs but a lot of them do a poor job. Particularly in loot based games, you often end up looking the same as everyone due to having to wear stuff for the stats. Wardrobes / transmog helps, but some still fail.

Combat dictated by weapon choices....undecided. Your weapon choice should definitely have an effect, but I'm a big fan of strong roles so I wouldn't want weapon choice to mess up roles. To be honest, I can't really think of a solution I'd be happy with. I don't like ESO's implementation. I think what I'd have preferred is if weapon choice AND class choice acted together to determine skills. That way, a tank selecting a 2h axe would get different skills to a healer selecting a 2h axe.

Sovrath

>

lahnmir said:

Sovrath said:

DMKano said:

If MMOs had this kind of TTK - I would quit all of them.





Seriously - to me anything that takes even more than 45sec to kill in a MMO - my annoyance factor just keeps going up.





I know some people are ok with this and some even enjoy long drawn out fights - and that's awesome for them - but for the rest of us who don't like long TTK, yeah - no thanks.











I know that in monster hunter - the design is as noted - for fights to lead to progression of game and more adventure - I just still couldn't get over the TTK. It's just not for me.

Yeah, I'm one of those who love long fights. Loved fighting BAMS in Tera solo with my lancer.



I want a fight to mean something. To me, anything that's "quick" doesn't really mean anything.



I'll add that I like fighting large hordes of mobs in Black Desert as there is a certain fun to be had mowing down large groups all at once.

I am so buying this game when it releases on PC.

This game is made for you. The preparations, the hunt, the chase, the kill. Fights can easily last 15 minutes or more with different phases, monsters fleeing or covering themselves in mud for extra protection for instance.

What a game.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

well OMFG

DavodtheTutt

I started a thread on a City of Heroes Facebook page and there seems to be a lot of agreement on what we liked and are looking for, and two or three go along with this.

#1 is customization -- in CoH it was all the different characters you could create, and eventually even their powers could be customized with different colors, etc. Some games have gender-locks, CoH didn't even have a limit on species, let alone races. Many of us also loved making up backstories for our characters, and reading other people's stories.

Movement was also a big factor. in CoH it was the travel powers: teleporting, super speed, super leap, and flying. Wonderfully free flying, zooming low over streets, between skyscrapers, and hovering high in the sky to admire the scenery, sunrises and sunsets, or the moon sailing through the thing clouds.

Immersion is another big thing, movement being a part of that. Feeling like you're actually there, being your character or like a guiding spirit hovering right above and behind. Either way, like you're somewhere else, or at least that your computer is a portal/interface to another world, so it doesn't feel like you're just playing a game on your computer. 2D, ortho-view, and side-scrolling games can never come close to that.

This article also mentions having different weapons make a real difference. In CoH the Archetypes played differently, and the powers and power combinations you chose also made differences. And you could feel the difference when you played, and when you played on a team, it wasn't just everybody making big slashes and flashes, there was a wide variety of visual effects and (more importantly) different effects on the targets. It made teaming up so much more fun, and part of the immersion.

Something CoH had which MHW doesn't, apparently, is variety of paths right from the start. There could have been more, but the Origins factor gave you different contacts to start with and different main story arcs to pursue, with emphasis on different villain groups.

The "thrill of the hunt" is something CoH didn't have so much, although it did have bosses that would pop up in different places. But this reminds me of something I think ALL these games need more of: Artificial Intelligence! Basic AI is not that difficult and doesn't take a lot more programming or data space. I'm not talking about implementing Watson here. A little bit would go a long way.

PsYcHoGBR

I picked this game up because I had nothing else to play. Two weeks in and I can't get enough of this game it keeps on giving. All I can say is you have to play it and see for yourself. Completely agree with this post there are so many things in this game that mmo's could learn from.

SavageHorizon

I'm surprised he didn't mention the gathering hub. 

SavageHorizon

PsYcHoGBR said:

I picked this game up because I had nothing else to play. Two weeks in and I can't get enough of this game it keeps on giving. All I can say is you have to play it and see for yourself. Completely agree with this post there are so many things in this game that mmo's could learn from.

Arm wrestling. 

emperorhades1

Its the suck and you guys know it.

Tsiya

Every fight is a boss fight, and they all have their own mechanics and tactics. The first time I saw the chicken monster dig out a rock and use it to shield itself, and then jump and try to bash with it, I was hooked. I haven't consoled since the late 90's, but I have a bunch of hours in this already.

rojoArcueid

Tsiya said:

Every fight is a boss fight, and they all have their own mechanics and tactics. The first time I saw the chicken monster dig out a rock and use it to shield itself, and then jump and try to bash with it, I was hooked. I haven't consoled since the late 90's, but I have a bunch of hours in this already.

These Boss fights are something i would love to see in mmos. Today's mmo boss fights are bland and lack real strategy and the only team work required is the tank and spank from the trinity which renders boss strategy obsolete or nonexistent.