I don't quite understand the problem with this part though
"I am asking you either to do the following: Buy the game and present me the receipt until Friday night for which you will be reimbursed within 24h or explain to me tomorrow why you do not wish to do this"
Reimbursing your employees for buying the game isn't wrong is it? And neither is asking them to write a review, which they may do from work I suppose. Unless steam has a rule against devs rating their own games.
Making them come to you and explain why you don't want to do that is shady as F#%@ though
I guess I need more information here.
I'd call it an ethical dilemma. A boss asks employees to review something, how is that going to produce any kind of unbiased result? The employee refuses to review and they're fired. But equally implied is the notion of a bad review from an employee might also endanger their jobs.
From Steam/Valve's standpoint, a company mandated review drives the review counts higher, possibly encouraging others to purchase the game. That could be viewed as a form of advertising, and positive employee reviews are an attempt to advertise on Steam without paying money. The practice might essentially cut into Steam/Valve's supplemental revenue. Not a good thing from Valve's PoV.
Me? I'm glad that Valve did this. Maybe they will crack down on other titles with 'suspect' reviews. I know I'd rather be influenced by a customer claiming the game is awesome rather than an employee claiming "It's awesome, 'cause I worked on it".
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
What happens if you bought the game and never played it? I mean apart from being glad you never played it, can I get a refund? This is the big question on my end because I bought and now cannot play the game.
I don't quite understand the problem with this part though
"I am asking you either to do the following: Buy the game and present me the receipt until Friday night for which you will be reimbursed within 24h or explain to me tomorrow why you do not wish to do this"
Reimbursing your employees for buying the game isn't wrong is it? And neither is asking them to write a review, which they may do from work I suppose. Unless steam has a rule against devs rating their own games.
Making them come to you and explain why you don't want to do that is shady as F#%@ though
I guess I need more information here.
Trying to fudge the review system is shady.
Threatening employees over it takes it to another level.
What was this dope thinking?
Edit just to clarify that the dope is the CEO.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"MOST do",you are darn skippy and this site should understand that as well as Gamespace.
BTW there is actual law against deceptive marketing practices,someone just has to file the results with the proper government agency and or provide your own proof.Canada has their own but VERY shotty and actually is way behind the USA's FTC on regulations,Canada has to move these sort of accusations under other parts of the law because ,yeah they are behind the times,too busy spending millions on Trudeau's speeches and security teams.
What i have personally witnessed is it really seems all these cushy government type jobs are full of LAZY people,they make it harder to report anything and even MUCH harder for them to act.Even the giant FTC in the USA only acted lately on a You Tuber and because it was his partner in crime DISNEY whom have large pockets so a nice payday was in it for the FTC.
Then there is the typical one...2..3..4 onward strikes,they will simply warn the offender.Imagine if cops all just warned us,ok buddy you were speeding,i warn you to not do it,ok have a nice day,no they see that payday ..winfall i was talking about.Sadly money is controlling power and the world and ruining it at the same time. My hunch,even if reported to the FTC and even with Steam providing their proof/results,i doubt anything would happen.It would literally take a huge follow up by some media outlets to ensure the FTC acted on the complaint.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Good that Valve removed them, but I don't think it's enough. The company should also get some kind of official penalty for deceptive advertising.
Calm your jets, They posted a few positive reviews its not like they were embezzling millions of dollars from elderly dementia patients....
I'm not asking them to be thrown into jail.
But employees writing review of their company's own product without disclosing their affiliation is against law in most countries. Law enforcement shouldn't be solely done by large companies like Steam, that's giving too much power to companies to decide whether the law exists or not.
I honestly dont understand why the CEO had to ask them for a review. If I worked at a developer and we published a game I would be first in line to buy it and post a positive review. My buddy just launched a game on steam and I purchased it even though he gave me a free copy and gave him a good review.
If this companies employees had to be asked to make a review then they suck and really should not be in the games industry. While I agree with what Value did I am shocked a CEO had to ask his employees (whose job depend on sales) to review their own product. I wont shed a tear if they all lose their jobs.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I honestly dont understand why the CEO had to ask them for a review. If I worked at a developer and we published a game I would be first in line to buy it and post a positive review. My buddy just launched a game on steam and I purchased it even though he gave me a free copy and gave him a good review.
If this companies employees had to be asked to make a review then they suck and really should not be in the games industry. While I agree with what Value did I am shocked a CEO had to ask his employees (whose job depend on sales) to review their own product. I wont shed a tear if they all lose their jobs.
But it isn't the employees fault that the CEO had asked that of them. Why would you want them ALL to lose their jobs. If you had a boss that went out and basically said hey you all should be writing these reviews and insinuated your jobs were on the line because of it, then I'm assuming you would probably partake in the thing they requested to make sure that you didn't lose your job.
It's a bit extreme to wish for people to lose jobs over something a manager / boss said they have to do.
I don't quite understand the problem with this part though
"I am asking you either to do the following: Buy the game and present me the receipt until Friday night for which you will be reimbursed within 24h or explain to me tomorrow why you do not wish to do this"
Reimbursing your employees for buying the game isn't wrong is it? And neither is asking them to write a review, which they may do from work I suppose. Unless steam has a rule against devs rating their own games.
Making them come to you and explain why you don't want to do that is shady as F#%@ though
I guess I need more information here.
I'd call it an ethical dilemma. A boss asks employees to review something, how is that going to produce any kind of unbiased result? The employee refuses to review and they're fired. But equally implied is the notion of a bad review from an employee might also endanger their jobs.
From Steam/Valve's standpoint, a company mandated review drives the review counts higher, possibly encouraging others to purchase the game. That could be viewed as a form of advertising, and positive employee reviews are an attempt to advertise on Steam without paying money. The practice might essentially cut into Steam/Valve's supplemental revenue. Not a good thing from Valve's PoV.
Me? I'm glad that Valve did this. Maybe they will crack down on other titles with 'suspect' reviews. I know I'd rather be influenced by a customer claiming the game is awesome rather than an employee claiming "It's awesome, 'cause I worked on it".
reviews are anonymous on steam unless your boss knows your username.
Reimbursing employees for buying the game they made isn't a crime in any way, so lets get that one out of the way.
Asking employees to review the game if they bought it also isn't a crime imo. They didn't demand proof of a positive review. Everyone has a bias and I think it's unethical to say developers can't rate the game they developed. Maybe Valve feels differently and has terms making this practice bannable which is reasonable I guess.
I'd just like to know what specific terms were broken is all. They certainly weren't reported here as far as I can tell. But this site almost never digs in further, they just repost stuff these days.
Reviews are important in aggregate.
The only real issue I see is him turning them not buying the game into a not so subtle threat to their employment. Reviews weren't tied to this though.
If I was to guess, the violation isn't that employees were reviewing their own game, it was that their employer suggested they review the game. But of course this article doesn't specify that
From a consumer point of view this is a win. The lack of integrity and ethics is part of what caused the first great video game crashes in history. The implied threat of there being consequences -- even the action of having to be called to the boss's offices for a chat -- is incredibly scummy. No doubt to get the reimbursement you had to show your order history or receipt, which would likely constitute revealing your Steam ID so that the review is looked at.
False witness of products and "paid actors" that claim a product is great has as many loopholes as it does law against such. From people now requiring to ABSOLUTELY and in NO WAY BEING VAGUE state their relation to said product, if there is one... to even commercials having to put "paid actors" when actors show up saying how the product change their life. If you are bias towards something, then you are not a good judge of it.
The internet is catching up with these laws -- especially on youtube and twitch -- and this is just another showing of it as a whole. From people running gambling sites and then not revealing that they own it (would you like to gamble at such a place?), to making crap on steam, paying for votes to pass crap or having the people who make it do such... Imagine if you had the money for two different products. Both freshly released. One had 50 reviews the first night, all glowing. The catch? The people that made them put it up. The game turns out to be shit, while the other goes on to become an instant classic or under appreciated jewel that was overshadowed by shady dealings. Even with Steam's new refund policy, the shady practices cause one to lose faith in companies and especially the industry if companies are allowed to do this. For the same reason you don't gamble in your own casino or employees are allowed to enter contests that award something of monetary value. Then advertise how much of a winner you are. Likely because it was rigged. This is fraud. It's a form of con-artistry. On the same level as bait and switch in my mind -- perhaps worse. Potentially even insider trading, as you know when your stocks will fail if you're hiding the truth or being deceptive about something.
Who is to say if it is against the law with how many loopholes there are out there (as well as the location where this falls under, and if technology is included in the aging words). But it's just wrong as a whole. No doubt why big companies fire their employees if they post reviews on their products. With that said, I may have sympathy for the titles where they didn't do this. Perhaps erase their reviews, give them a warning and have them issue a public apology. Who knows how thorough Valve was with their investigation though.
Post edited by Yaevindusk on
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
I honestly dont understand why the CEO had to ask them for a review. If I worked at a developer and we published a game I would be first in line to buy it and post a positive review. My buddy just launched a game on steam and I purchased it even though he gave me a free copy and gave him a good review.
If this companies employees had to be asked to make a review then they suck and really should not be in the games industry. While I agree with what Value did I am shocked a CEO had to ask his employees (whose job depend on sales) to review their own product. I wont shed a tear if they all lose their jobs.
But it isn't the employees fault that the CEO had asked that of them. Why would you want them ALL to lose their jobs. If you had a boss that went out and basically said hey you all should be writing these reviews and insinuated your jobs were on the line because of it, then I'm assuming you would probably partake in the thing they requested to make sure that you didn't lose your job.
It's a bit extreme to wish for people to lose jobs over something a manager / boss said they have to do.
Hopefully the next job they get will be at a place that isn't so scummy that it "had a boss that went out and basically said hey you all should be writing these reviews and insinuated their jobs were on the line because of it."
I tried warning people on this site about this company years ago but a certain individual in this thread swore this was a good company and pushed their garbage games HARD.
Developers being able to delete threads on Steam forums like Albatroes said is also a problem that needs to be looked into.
I don't quite understand the problem with this part though
"I am asking you either to do the following: Buy the game and present me the receipt until Friday night for which you will be reimbursed within 24h or explain to me tomorrow why you do not wish to do this"
Reimbursing your employees for buying the game isn't wrong is it? And neither is asking them to write a review, which they may do from work I suppose. Unless steam has a rule against devs rating their own games.
Making them come to you and explain why you don't want to do that is shady as F#%@ though
I guess I need more information here.
I'd call it an ethical dilemma. A boss asks employees to review something, how is that going to produce any kind of unbiased result? The employee refuses to review and they're fired. But equally implied is the notion of a bad review from an employee might also endanger their jobs.
From Steam/Valve's standpoint, a company mandated review drives the review counts higher, possibly encouraging others to purchase the game. That could be viewed as a form of advertising, and positive employee reviews are an attempt to advertise on Steam without paying money. The practice might essentially cut into Steam/Valve's supplemental revenue. Not a good thing from Valve's PoV.
Me? I'm glad that Valve did this. Maybe they will crack down on other titles with 'suspect' reviews. I know I'd rather be influenced by a customer claiming the game is awesome rather than an employee claiming "It's awesome, 'cause I worked on it".
reviews are anonymous on steam unless your boss knows your username.
Reimbursing employees for buying the game they made isn't a crime in any way, so lets get that one out of the way.
Asking employees to review the game if they bought it also isn't a crime imo. They didn't demand proof of a positive review. Everyone has a bias and I think it's unethical to say developers can't rate the game they developed. Maybe Valve feels differently and has terms making this practice bannable which is reasonable I guess.
I'd just like to know what specific terms were broken is all. They certainly weren't reported here as far as I can tell. But this site almost never digs in further, they just repost stuff these days.
Reviews are important in aggregate.
The only real issue I see is him turning them not buying the game into a not so subtle threat to their employment. Reviews weren't tied to this though.
If I was to guess, the violation isn't that employees were reviewing their own game, it was that their employer suggested they review the game. But of course this article doesn't specify that
Completely agree. So, now my family and friends can't review the game? Makes no sense. Also, I believe steam ask if you received the game for free. It seems to me Valve had an ax to grind. Those few votes are not going to move a game up any charts. However, if I paid a bunch of 3rd world country people to review my game for $1 that is a huge problem. And something I think the big companies get away with.
What's the difference if I give a copy of the game to my wife, and ask her to review my game? I'm not going to divorce her if she doesn't, but she probably has strong motivation to give the game a great review.
What happens if you bought the game and never played it? I mean apart from being glad you never played it, can I get a refund? This is the big question on my end because I bought and now cannot play the game.
Take a refund and put it down on Kingdom Come: Deliverance.
Pretty harsh, but then I suppose it's a gibbeting meant to serve as a warning to others.
Not harsh at all.
Valve knows that the integrity (or appearence of integrity) is a huge deal to steam users - and it directly affects players "trust" in Steam.
I laughed so hard at this. You're lying to yourself if you think Valve is working hard towards the appearance of integrity based on the number of garbage titles released on steam on a daily basis.
Valve is in the business of selling games.
They let the players judge via reviews whats shit and what isnt. This is why reviews matter.
Also Steam has a 100% money back policy for the first 2 hours of gameplay - no questions asked.
You can play anything for less than 2 hours worry free.
I am not a big fan of Steam, but the reviews + money back policy works for most as far as protection from scammy games
This is why their review system is complete rubbish. They play Facebook mind games with what you see.
They have a good refund policy, but what does that have to do with how they manipulate your store feed and decide what games get feed time and what games get shoved to the dumper. It's a bad system that they manipulate and leverage.
On top of that there should be alarms and concerns about them delisting games on some arbitrary whim due to their corrupt rating system. If Sony or Microsoft did this, or EA with Origin, the reddit rage meter would be off the charts.
We shouldn't casually disregard this because some group with a lack of integrity got caught. This only highlights how Valve is the root cause of this problem in the first place. It spotlights the corruption of the Steam store feed and the ratings system. It should be a reminder that they did nothing practical to fix their ratings issues and that providing more charts does nothing to solve the problems with their system.
How is this any different than any other company out there? Any retail establishment can discontinue carrying a product if they so choose. They also sell "premium" space on their shelves, so in this respect they are determining what you see, just like Valve does through their algorithm. To think otherwise is just being naive.
I honestly dont understand why the CEO had to ask them for a review. If I worked at a developer and we published a game I would be first in line to buy it and post a positive review. My buddy just launched a game on steam and I purchased it even though he gave me a free copy and gave him a good review.
If this companies employees had to be asked to make a review then they suck and really should not be in the games industry. While I agree with what Value did I am shocked a CEO had to ask his employees (whose job depend on sales) to review their own product. I wont shed a tear if they all lose their jobs.
But it isn't the employees fault that the CEO had asked that of them. Why would you want them ALL to lose their jobs. If you had a boss that went out and basically said hey you all should be writing these reviews and insinuated your jobs were on the line because of it, then I'm assuming you would probably partake in the thing they requested to make sure that you didn't lose your job.
It's a bit extreme to wish for people to lose jobs over something a manager / boss said they have to do.
Wow, way to totally miss the point. I dont wish people to lose their job over something a manager said they have to do. I wish people who created a product they dont believe in or have enough pride in to lose their jobs. The CEO should never have had to ask that of them and lets be honest, if you were the CEO and your choices were lay everyone off and go out of business or ask employees to do a fricken review of their own product, who would not pick the latter?
I dont think people who have never been a business owner and responsible for the employees who work for them should be judging this guy. I admit what he did was wrong but if you ran a company and your employees who built a product didnt care enough about it to post a fricken review and now you were going to be laying off half of them, is what he did really so bad?
The employees need to accept some of the responsibility for the company and the direction it is headed in.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I knew the game(s) were going in the toilet. I played both, got refunds for both and left negtive reviews for both. I'm only sorry for those peeps who lost their jobs........... but if you cheat, there are consequences!
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
What happens if you bought the game and never played it? I mean apart from being glad you never played it, can I get a refund? This is the big question on my end because I bought and now cannot play the game.
If you've owned it for more than two weeks you will not automatically get a refund approved. Even if you've never played it. Has to meet both criteria. You can appeal the automatic rejection, but good luck with that.
In this case they might budge considering that they are the ones removing the sales of the games, but I know if it is an early access title that packs it up of their own volition Steam will give you the finger even if you've never opened it or installed.
Pretty harsh, but then I suppose it's a gibbeting meant to serve as a warning to others.
Not harsh at all.
Valve knows that the integrity (or appearence of integrity) is a huge deal to steam users - and it directly affects players "trust" in Steam.
I laughed so hard at this. You're lying to yourself if you think Valve is working hard towards the appearance of integrity based on the number of garbage titles released on steam on a daily basis.
Valve is in the business of selling games.
They let the players judge via reviews whats shit and what isnt. This is why reviews matter.
Also Steam has a 100% money back policy for the first 2 hours of gameplay - no questions asked.
You can play anything for less than 2 hours worry free.
I am not a big fan of Steam, but the reviews + money back policy works for most as far as protection from scammy games
This is why their review system is complete rubbish. They play Facebook mind games with what you see.
They have a good refund policy, but what does that have to do with how they manipulate your store feed and decide what games get feed time and what games get shoved to the dumper. It's a bad system that they manipulate and leverage.
On top of that there should be alarms and concerns about them delisting games on some arbitrary whim due to their corrupt rating system. If Sony or Microsoft did this, or EA with Origin, the reddit rage meter would be off the charts.
We shouldn't casually disregard this because some group with a lack of integrity got caught. This only highlights how Valve is the root cause of this problem in the first place. It spotlights the corruption of the Steam store feed and the ratings system. It should be a reminder that they did nothing practical to fix their ratings issues and that providing more charts does nothing to solve the problems with their system.
How is this any different than any other company out there? Any retail establishment can discontinue carrying a product if they so choose. They also sell "premium" space on their shelves, so in this respect they are determining what you see, just like Valve does through their algorithm. To think otherwise is just being naive.
How is it different? It's an online service that Valve can choose to support or crush at their subjective whim.
Just like promoted items here are labeled as such I would expect Valve to disclose when games are being paid to be put at the top of my games feed. I know this will happen but this is a case where transparency by Valve would be the right thing to do.
But what is happening at Valve and the Steam store is the ratings system, which is abused by many, is being used to help decide what I see on my store feed and what gets top billing. I don't want other users deciding what I see because some reddit sub or youtube personality revved the masses up into a frenzy.
The bottom line is Valve created this system and it's being abused but they won't do anything about it. This isn't the first fiasco and sometimes it's the studio or publisher who is damaged by the review bombing.
If people want to generate passionate reviews and articles, great. I don't want that influencing what bubbles up on my store feed. I want my gaming habits and the curators I choose to follow to influence that. Right now the ratings system interferes with that to the detriment of everyone.
Again, how is Valve doing anything different? Since my brick and mortar example didn't work, let me try going with an online service:
I didn't buy anything related to any of those products from the site I visited. Ever. But they made recommendations for me anyway. Some of those products could have paid for placement, or they are currently popular purchases for others and they are trying to add to their sales. Even worse, further down the page they offered Play-Doh because their algorithm saw that my daughter had been looking at toys a few days ago. Just like Valve, the site I visited could arbitrarily bury any of these items, or stop selling them all together.
I am not arguing that Valve's rating system is abused. I am merely pointing out that, right or wrong, it is not just Big Bad Valve that is doing that, and to think that every other company isn't trying to influence you the exact same way is, as I said before, naive.
They got caught, but very much doubt they're the only company that does this.
I know for a fact that major AAA US companies have a clear policy against this very thing - a single employee posting ANY kind of review for their own game (inlcuding published not in-house made) is a fire-able offense @ Blizzard, Trion, Daybreak, Activision, EA etc...
It is considered an extreme violation of policy - I bet you that many companies have similar polices as the damage done is not worth it.
read a article recently that many big companies pay some other companies to write reviews post them on review sites to hype their products...
Had about 20 some odd hours on the game, the wife roughly had 4 to 5. After valve pulled the game and we found out about what they did we requested a refund and both got our refund.
We explained that the game just was not that great which it sucked. Could go on for hours as to why it did but the ones that have played it I'm sure you already know why. We also explained that after we found out what they did we would rather put our money towards some one else, Valve gave us both our refunds back. Have been a steam user for many, many years and they have never done me wrong.
We requested it back to our steam wallets instead of to the bank not sure if that helped us get our refunds back, but it is possible to get your refund of the game. Everyone says they are harsh with there refunds but they have at times been understandable. Look at the No Mans Sky disaster they gave people back there money months and months later after it was bought.
I'm sure other company's have done this in the past, but it is disgusting that people would do this, If your game sucks, it sucks. Conning people in to spending there hard earned money and valuable time in to buying your game that you KNOW is not good is distasteful and dishonorable. Instead of Insel taking the time and correcting there bugs and trying to make there game something great they used there time for bad. I feel bad for the employees that wanted nothing to do with this and hope the ones that did not want to go through with it land a better position with a better company.
They got caught, but very much doubt they're the only company that does this.
I know for a fact that major AAA US companies have a clear policy against this very thing - a single employee posting ANY kind of review for their own game (inlcuding published not in-house made) is a fire-able offense @ Blizzard, Trion, Daybreak, Activision, EA etc...
It is considered an extreme violation of policy - I bet you that many companies have similar polices as the damage done is not worth it.
read a article recently that many big companies pay some other companies to write reviews post them on review sites to hype their products...
And some review sites are open to financial manipulation, not this one fortunately as they openly state any sponsored reviews as being such. This is why user reviews can be so important not to mention more 'reliable' though after gamergate i think more people are aware who the 'players' are when it comes to paid for reviews etc.
Comments
From Steam/Valve's standpoint, a company mandated review drives the review counts higher, possibly encouraging others to purchase the game. That could be viewed as a form of advertising, and positive employee reviews are an attempt to advertise on Steam without paying money. The practice might essentially cut into Steam/Valve's supplemental revenue. Not a good thing from Valve's PoV.
Me? I'm glad that Valve did this. Maybe they will crack down on other titles with 'suspect' reviews. I know I'd rather be influenced by a customer claiming the game is awesome rather than an employee claiming "It's awesome, 'cause I worked on it".
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Trying to fudge the review system is shady.
Threatening employees over it takes it to another level.
What was this dope thinking? Edit just to clarify that the dope is the CEO.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
BTW there is actual law against deceptive marketing practices,someone just has to file the results with the proper government agency and or provide your own proof.Canada has their own but VERY shotty and actually is way behind the USA's FTC on regulations,Canada has to move these sort of accusations under other parts of the law because ,yeah they are behind the times,too busy spending millions on Trudeau's speeches and security teams.
What i have personally witnessed is it really seems all these cushy government type jobs are full of LAZY people,they make it harder to report anything and even MUCH harder for them to act.Even the giant FTC in the USA only acted lately on a You Tuber and because it was his partner in crime DISNEY whom have large pockets so a nice payday was in it for the FTC.
Then there is the typical one...2..3..4 onward strikes,they will simply warn the offender.Imagine if cops all just warned us,ok buddy you were speeding,i warn you to not do it,ok have a nice day,no they see that payday ..winfall i was talking about.Sadly money is controlling power and the world and ruining it at the same time.
My hunch,even if reported to the FTC and even with Steam providing their proof/results,i doubt anything would happen.It would literally take a huge follow up by some media outlets to ensure the FTC acted on the complaint.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
But employees writing review of their company's own product without disclosing their affiliation is against law in most countries. Law enforcement shouldn't be solely done by large companies like Steam, that's giving too much power to companies to decide whether the law exists or not.
If this companies employees had to be asked to make a review then they suck and really should not be in the games industry. While I agree with what Value did I am shocked a CEO had to ask his employees (whose job depend on sales) to review their own product. I wont shed a tear if they all lose their jobs.
It's a bit extreme to wish for people to lose jobs over something a manager / boss said they have to do.
Reimbursing employees for buying the game they made isn't a crime in any way, so lets get that one out of the way.
Asking employees to review the game if they bought it also isn't a crime imo. They didn't demand proof of a positive review. Everyone has a bias and I think it's unethical to say developers can't rate the game they developed. Maybe Valve feels differently and has terms making this practice bannable which is reasonable I guess.
I'd just like to know what specific terms were broken is all. They certainly weren't reported here as far as I can tell. But this site almost never digs in further, they just repost stuff these days.
Reviews are important in aggregate.
The only real issue I see is him turning them not buying the game into a not so subtle threat to their employment. Reviews weren't tied to this though.
If I was to guess, the violation isn't that employees were reviewing their own game, it was that their employer suggested they review the game. But of course this article doesn't specify that
False witness of products and "paid actors" that claim a product is great has as many loopholes as it does law against such. From people now requiring to ABSOLUTELY and in NO WAY BEING VAGUE state their relation to said product, if there is one... to even commercials having to put "paid actors" when actors show up saying how the product change their life. If you are bias towards something, then you are not a good judge of it.
The internet is catching up with these laws -- especially on youtube and twitch -- and this is just another showing of it as a whole. From people running gambling sites and then not revealing that they own it (would you like to gamble at such a place?), to making crap on steam, paying for votes to pass crap or having the people who make it do such... Imagine if you had the money for two different products. Both freshly released. One had 50 reviews the first night, all glowing. The catch? The people that made them put it up. The game turns out to be shit, while the other goes on to become an instant classic or under appreciated jewel that was overshadowed by shady dealings. Even with Steam's new refund policy, the shady practices cause one to lose faith in companies and especially the industry if companies are allowed to do this. For the same reason you don't gamble in your own casino or employees are allowed to enter contests that award something of monetary value. Then advertise how much of a winner you are. Likely because it was rigged. This is fraud. It's a form of con-artistry. On the same level as bait and switch in my mind -- perhaps worse. Potentially even insider trading, as you know when your stocks will fail if you're hiding the truth or being deceptive about something.
Who is to say if it is against the law with how many loopholes there are out there (as well as the location where this falls under, and if technology is included in the aging words). But it's just wrong as a whole. No doubt why big companies fire their employees if they post reviews on their products. With that said, I may have sympathy for the titles where they didn't do this. Perhaps erase their reviews, give them a warning and have them issue a public apology. Who knows how thorough Valve was with their investigation though.
Hopefully the next job they get will be at a place that isn't so scummy that it "had a boss that went out and basically said hey you all should be writing these reviews and insinuated their jobs were on the line because of it."
Developers being able to delete threads on Steam forums like Albatroes said is also a problem that needs to be looked into.
Completely agree. So, now my family and friends can't review the game? Makes no sense. Also, I believe steam ask if you received the game for free. It seems to me Valve had an ax to grind. Those few votes are not going to move a game up any charts. However, if I paid a bunch of 3rd world country people to review my game for $1 that is a huge problem. And something I think the big companies get away with.
What's the difference if I give a copy of the game to my wife, and ask her to review my game? I'm not going to divorce her if she doesn't, but she probably has strong motivation to give the game a great review.
I dont think people who have never been a business owner and responsible for the employees who work for them should be judging this guy. I admit what he did was wrong but if you ran a company and your employees who built a product didnt care enough about it to post a fricken review and now you were going to be laying off half of them, is what he did really so bad?
The employees need to accept some of the responsibility for the company and the direction it is headed in.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
In this case they might budge considering that they are the ones removing the sales of the games, but I know if it is an early access title that packs it up of their own volition Steam will give you the finger even if you've never opened it or installed.
I didn't buy anything related to any of those products from the site I visited. Ever. But they made recommendations for me anyway. Some of those products could have paid for placement, or they are currently popular purchases for others and they are trying to add to their sales. Even worse, further down the page they offered Play-Doh because their algorithm saw that my daughter had been looking at toys a few days ago. Just like Valve, the site I visited could arbitrarily bury any of these items, or stop selling them all together.
I am not arguing that Valve's rating system is abused. I am merely pointing out that, right or wrong, it is not just Big Bad Valve that is doing that, and to think that every other company isn't trying to influence you the exact same way is, as I said before, naive.
read a article recently that many big companies pay some other companies to write reviews post them on review sites to hype their products...
We explained that the game just was not that great which it sucked. Could go on for hours as to why it did but the ones that have played it I'm sure you already know why. We also explained that after we found out what they did we would rather put our money towards some one else, Valve gave us both our refunds back. Have been a steam user for many, many years and they have never done me wrong.
We requested it back to our steam wallets instead of to the bank not sure if that helped us get our refunds back, but it is possible to get your refund of the game. Everyone says they are harsh with there refunds but they have at times been understandable. Look at the No Mans Sky disaster they gave people back there money months and months later after it was bought.
I'm sure other company's have done this in the past, but it is disgusting that people would do this, If your game sucks, it sucks. Conning people in to spending there hard earned money and valuable time in to buying your game that you KNOW is not good is distasteful and dishonorable. Instead of Insel taking the time and correcting there bugs and trying to make there game something great they used there time for bad. I feel bad for the employees that wanted nothing to do with this and hope the ones that did not want to go through with it land a better position with a better company.
This is why user reviews can be so important not to mention more 'reliable' though after gamergate i think more people are aware who the 'players' are when it comes to paid for reviews etc.