Is it weird if i think SWAT calls should involve caller to identify himself via his identity code or whatever its called in America to report someone?
This could help backtracking and force people to not make such troll calls
Is it weird if i think SWAT calls should involve caller to identify himself via his identity code or whatever its called in America to report someone?
This could help backtracking and force people to not make such troll calls
So if they get a call from someone who can't remember their number they just leave it? This is what I am saying about putting systems in place, they never work in every situation. That's why we as individuals and in this case parents are responsible, no law, regulation or methodology will work well enough to replace the onus which is on us.
Fortnite is a 13+ game, his parents should not be allowing him to play it. Also how did they find his address, again parents should be making sure kids understand not to give details out. That's one of the reasons there is a 13+ age limit.
We are reaching the stage where there may be calls for players of certain games to register with the police so when they get a call saying its a drug den or whatever they do not overreact!
Regardless of all that a stiff sentence called for, but doubt they will be caught.
That's a good idea, create a database streamers and players can register on which police can check first just to see if it's a possible hoax and perhaps a phone number to call first before they rush in hard.
Great idea !, so now a drug dealer can just sign up to twitch . Come on guys you need a better solution.
Big Pharma is gonna stream screwing over the the American people? They’re the biggest drug dealers in America.
The need to class SWAT'ing as attempted murder and sentence accordingly, even if the person doing it might be technically classed as being a minor, but i don't think that should prevent them from suffering the consequences of their actions.
I agree with Cizzorz -- whoever did this should rot in a cell for a good long while.
Isn't that too soft?
How so? A jail sentence for committing a crime isn't...enough? What do you suggest?
I'm all for compulsory neutering of anyone who shows a conspicuous lack of positive contributions to the gene pool... so yeah rotting in a cell + that
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Aside from Swatting needing to be punished severly, i have to say that kids shouldn't be on the internet.
When i was this kid's age i was playing local multiplayer (pve and pvp) with my real life friends and it was the best thing ever. And this kid is just 12 years old, he has enough free time to meet up with this friends and play games that way.
This kid's mom is in part responsible for not paying attention to what her kid was doing and the risks he was taking on the internet. Some parents are a bit to flexible with the wrong things.
The need to class SWAT'ing as attempted murder and sentence accordingly, even if the person doing it might be technically classed as being a minor, but i don't think that should prevent them from suffering the consequences of their actions.
Depends I guess.
I agree with your general sentiment and a starting charge of making a false report is not enough...it should go under attempted assault as that's what swatters are trying to do, manipulate the police into assaulting innocent victims.
For murder well I would agree only if things end up like that poor guy in kansas.
It's clear that right now the punishment is not up to par with the crime and is not enough of a deterrent.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
When someone calls police to report a crime in progress on a person they're ticked at for one reason or another. It's filing a false police report.
Read the full article for a video to explain it and a link to an incident late last year where a swatting incident led to the death of an innocent man in Kansas.
Wow. That sounds horrible. WTF is wrong with people. Never heard of this before. Filing a false police report is a serious crime isn't it?
The need to class SWAT'ing as attempted murder and sentence accordingly, even if the person doing it might be technically classed as being a minor, but i don't think that should prevent them from suffering the consequences of their actions.
Depends I guess.
I agree with your general sentiment and a starting charge of making a false report is not enough...it should go under attempted assault as that's what swatters are trying to do, manipulate the police into assaulting innocent victims.
For murder well I would agree only if things end up like that poor guy in kansas.
It's clear that right now the punishment is not up to par with the crime and is not enough of a deterrent.
Psychology supports the idea that the best deterrent is not severity of punishment, but the likelihood of getting caught.
Jail time would likely be fine, but folks have to be shown that the authorities will respond and punish you for calling these in. Once swatting becomes synonymous with jail time, it will stop.
The need to class SWAT'ing as attempted murder and sentence accordingly, even if the person doing it might be technically classed as being a minor, but i don't think that should prevent them from suffering the consequences of their actions.
Depends I guess.
I agree with your general sentiment and a starting charge of making a false report is not enough...it should go under attempted assault as that's what swatters are trying to do, manipulate the police into assaulting innocent victims.
For murder well I would agree only if things end up like that poor guy in kansas.
It's clear that right now the punishment is not up to par with the crime and is not enough of a deterrent.
Psychology supports the idea that the best deterrent is not severity of punishment, but the likelihood of getting caught.
Jail time would likely be fine, but folks have to be shown that the authorities will respond and punish you for calling these in. Once swatting becomes synonymous with jail time, it will stop.
While that is a fair assumption, i don't fully agree with it for one reason. Crime is usually synonymous with jail time, yet many criminals keep robbing and attempting murdering, actually killing, and they serve a few years with possible reduction of penalty for "good behavior" then go back to committing crimes.
Despite what psychology dictates, i believe that severe punishment, where applicable, should be enforced. Key words: where applicable (based on the severity of the crime, and attempted murder is IMO bad enough).
Fortnite is a 13+ game, his parents should not be allowing him to play it. Also how did they find his address, again parents should be making sure kids understand not to give details out. That's one of the reasons there is a 13+ age limit.
We are reaching the stage where there may be calls for players of certain games to register with the police so when they get a call saying its a drug den or whatever they do not overreact!
Regardless of all that a stiff sentence called for, but doubt they will be caught.
That's a good idea, create a database streamers and players can register on which police can check first just to see if it's a possible hoax and perhaps a phone number to call first before they rush in hard.
Makes murdering streamers a lot easier as well!
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
The need to class SWAT'ing as attempted murder and sentence accordingly, even if the person doing it might be technically classed as being a minor, but i don't think that should prevent them from suffering the consequences of their actions.
Depends I guess.
I agree with your general sentiment and a starting charge of making a false report is not enough...it should go under attempted assault as that's what swatters are trying to do, manipulate the police into assaulting innocent victims.
For murder well I would agree only if things end up like that poor guy in kansas.
It's clear that right now the punishment is not up to par with the crime and is not enough of a deterrent.
Psychology supports the idea that the best deterrent is not severity of punishment, but the likelihood of getting caught.
Jail time would likely be fine, but folks have to be shown that the authorities will respond and punish you for calling these in. Once swatting becomes synonymous with jail time, it will stop.
While that is a fair assumption, i don't fully agree with it for one reason. Crime is usually synonymous with jail time, yet many criminals keep robbing and attempting murdering, actually killing, and they serve a few years with possible reduction of penalty for "good behavior" then go back to committing crimes.
Despite what psychology dictates, i believe that severe punishment, where applicable, should be enforced. Key words: where applicable (based on the severity of the crime, and attempted murder is IMO bad enough).
attempted murder means that there was an intention to kill, when someone 'SWAT's' another person, then that imo can be classed as 'intention', its no different to someone pointing a gun at someone else and pulling the trigger, the intention is to do harm to another, with death being the most likely outcome, just because for whatever reason the bullet did not hit the target, does not decrease from the intention to do harm. I don't believe there is any circumstance where SWAT'ing cannot be interpretted as at the very least, attempted murder, there is a clear intention to do harm, with a significant possibility of death being the result, so call it what it is, attempted murder.
I agree with Cizzorz -- whoever did this should rot in a cell for a good long while.
Yeah everyone focus' on the idiot who did this but why in the world have we as society give police the right to bust in your house guns blazing over an unverified anonymous tip? We used to require police to have reasonable suspicion before they violated our privacy and other rights. I don't think a monkey with a phone is reasonable.
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
The need to class SWAT'ing as attempted murder and sentence accordingly, even if the person doing it might be technically classed as being a minor, but i don't think that should prevent them from suffering the consequences of their actions.
Depends I guess.
I agree with your general sentiment and a starting charge of making a false report is not enough...it should go under attempted assault as that's what swatters are trying to do, manipulate the police into assaulting innocent victims.
For murder well I would agree only if things end up like that poor guy in kansas.
It's clear that right now the punishment is not up to par with the crime and is not enough of a deterrent.
Psychology supports the idea that the best deterrent is not severity of punishment, but the likelihood of getting caught.
Jail time would likely be fine, but folks have to be shown that the authorities will respond and punish you for calling these in. Once swatting becomes synonymous with jail time, it will stop.
While that is a fair assumption, i don't fully agree with it for one reason. Crime is usually synonymous with jail time, yet many criminals keep robbing and attempting murdering, actually killing, and they serve a few years with possible reduction of penalty for "good behavior" then go back to committing crimes.
Despite what psychology dictates, i believe that severe punishment, where applicable, should be enforced. Key words: where applicable (based on the severity of the crime, and attempted murder is IMO bad enough).
attempted murder means that there was an intention to kill, when someone 'SWAT's' another person, then that imo can be classed as 'intention', its no different to someone pointing a gun at someone else and pulling the trigger, the intention is to do harm to another, with death being the most likely outcome, just because for whatever reason the bullet did not hit the target, does not decrease from the intention to do harm. I don't believe there is any circumstance where SWAT'ing cannot be interpretted as at the very least, attempted murder, there is a clear intention to do harm, with a significant possibility of death being the result, so call it what it is, attempted murder.
Agreed, like i said in the last sentence of my post. Attempted murder is bad enough to be punished severely. These swatters know very well all the possible outcomes of their actions.
The need to class SWAT'ing as attempted murder and sentence accordingly, even if the person doing it might be technically classed as being a minor, but i don't think that should prevent them from suffering the consequences of their actions.
Depends I guess.
I agree with your general sentiment and a starting charge of making a false report is not enough...it should go under attempted assault as that's what swatters are trying to do, manipulate the police into assaulting innocent victims.
For murder well I would agree only if things end up like that poor guy in kansas.
It's clear that right now the punishment is not up to par with the crime and is not enough of a deterrent.
Psychology supports the idea that the best deterrent is not severity of punishment, but the likelihood of getting caught.
Jail time would likely be fine, but folks have to be shown that the authorities will respond and punish you for calling these in. Once swatting becomes synonymous with jail time, it will stop.
While that is a fair assumption, i don't fully agree with it for one reason. Crime is usually synonymous with jail time, yet many criminals keep robbing and attempting murdering, actually killing, and they serve a few years with possible reduction of penalty for "good behavior" then go back to committing crimes.
Despite what psychology dictates, i believe that severe punishment, where applicable, should be enforced. Key words: where applicable (based on the severity of the crime, and attempted murder is IMO bad enough).
attempted murder means that there was an intention to kill, when someone 'SWAT's' another person, then that imo can be classed as 'intention', its no different to someone pointing a gun at someone else and pulling the trigger, the intention is to do harm to another, with death being the most likely outcome, just because for whatever reason the bullet did not hit the target, does not decrease from the intention to do harm. I don't believe there is any circumstance where SWAT'ing cannot be interpretted as at the very least, attempted murder, there is a clear intention to do harm, with a significant possibility of death being the result, so call it what it is, attempted murder.
Your reasoning is wrong, swatting is more akin to assault. Swatting is done with the clear intent to cause harm to another which is pretty much the definition of assault...not murder or attempted murder etc.
You can't reasonably say when someone swats someone else they intend for that person to be murdered unless you have magical powers and can read minds and then magically have to courts accept your magic powers as evidence.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Is it weird if i think SWAT calls should involve caller to identify himself via his identity code or whatever its called in America to report someone?
This could help backtracking and force people to not make such troll calls
Underage people, elderly people, people who are drunk or on drugs, and people who are in shock either due to psychological trauma or due to getting hurt must be able to successfully call emergency services.
If the person calling is an adult and isn't in panic, then the ER operator may ask quite a lot of questions and information, but everyone must be given help whether they are in a condition to answer questions or not.
The need to class SWAT'ing as attempted murder and sentence accordingly, even if the person doing it might be technically classed as being a minor, but i don't think that should prevent them from suffering the consequences of their actions.
Depends I guess.
I agree with your general sentiment and a starting charge of making a false report is not enough...it should go under attempted assault as that's what swatters are trying to do, manipulate the police into assaulting innocent victims.
For murder well I would agree only if things end up like that poor guy in kansas.
It's clear that right now the punishment is not up to par with the crime and is not enough of a deterrent.
Psychology supports the idea that the best deterrent is not severity of punishment, but the likelihood of getting caught.
Jail time would likely be fine, but folks have to be shown that the authorities will respond and punish you for calling these in. Once swatting becomes synonymous with jail time, it will stop.
While that is a fair assumption, i don't fully agree with it for one reason. Crime is usually synonymous with jail time, yet many criminals keep robbing and attempting murdering, actually killing, and they serve a few years with possible reduction of penalty for "good behavior" then go back to committing crimes.
Despite what psychology dictates, i believe that severe punishment, where applicable, should be enforced. Key words: where applicable (based on the severity of the crime, and attempted murder is IMO bad enough).
I get the sentiment, but there's not been any real data to support the idea that threatening severe punishment will work unless those considering committing a crime feel it's more likely than not they get caught.
Now, that's not to say severity has no effect. On the contrary, it can be a powerful deterrent. But you can't punish those you can't prove connected to wrong-doing.
Most likely not. You can witness yourself how punishment work in our society. Hint: police/SWAT destroy people's possessions and lives for no apparent reason while at least *half* of *registered* (let alone unregistered) crimes result in 0 arrests / convictions.
I guess we can consider this episode a good news: after all SWAT didn't kill the teen this time.
The need to class SWAT'ing as attempted murder and sentence accordingly, even if the person doing it might be technically classed as being a minor, but i don't think that should prevent them from suffering the consequences of their actions.
Depends I guess.
I agree with your general sentiment and a starting charge of making a false report is not enough...it should go under attempted assault as that's what swatters are trying to do, manipulate the police into assaulting innocent victims.
For murder well I would agree only if things end up like that poor guy in kansas.
It's clear that right now the punishment is not up to par with the crime and is not enough of a deterrent.
Psychology supports the idea that the best deterrent is not severity of punishment, but the likelihood of getting caught.
Jail time would likely be fine, but folks have to be shown that the authorities will respond and punish you for calling these in. Once swatting becomes synonymous with jail time, it will stop.
While that is a fair assumption, i don't fully agree with it for one reason. Crime is usually synonymous with jail time, yet many criminals keep robbing and attempting murdering, actually killing, and they serve a few years with possible reduction of penalty for "good behavior" then go back to committing crimes.
Despite what psychology dictates, i believe that severe punishment, where applicable, should be enforced. Key words: where applicable (based on the severity of the crime, and attempted murder is IMO bad enough).
attempted murder means that there was an intention to kill, when someone 'SWAT's' another person, then that imo can be classed as 'intention', its no different to someone pointing a gun at someone else and pulling the trigger, the intention is to do harm to another, with death being the most likely outcome, just because for whatever reason the bullet did not hit the target, does not decrease from the intention to do harm. I don't believe there is any circumstance where SWAT'ing cannot be interpretted as at the very least, attempted murder, there is a clear intention to do harm, with a significant possibility of death being the result, so call it what it is, attempted murder.
Your reasoning is wrong, swatting is more akin to assault. Swatting is done with the clear intent to cause harm to another which is pretty much the definition of assault...not murder or attempted murder etc.
You can't reasonably say when someone swats someone else they intend for that person to be murdered unless you have magical powers and can read minds and then magically have to courts accept your magic powers as evidence.
Assault is hitting someone, it rarely involves using a deadly weapon which is why that is a seperate category of itself, it rarely results in significant injury, the difference is that when someone is SWAT'd there is a significant risk of the person or persons being SWAT'd being shot, as has already been demonstrated, which is why i made the analogy of the pointed gun, the intention is to do harm, i could for instance shoot at you with the intention to injur your leg or arm, but despite this intention you suffer a fatal wound, or perhaps i am such a poor shot that i miss you entirely, either way there was the intention to cause harm even if no harm was actually done other than you suffering a bit of nasty scare. It does not take magical powers of deduction but just basic reasoning to decide that if you carry out an action that puts another persons life at risk, then your intention is to do harm, you are not after all sending them a nasty note with a bouquet of flowers through interflora
The need to class SWAT'ing as attempted murder and sentence accordingly, even if the person doing it might be technically classed as being a minor, but i don't think that should prevent them from suffering the consequences of their actions.
Depends I guess.
I agree with your general sentiment and a starting charge of making a false report is not enough...it should go under attempted assault as that's what swatters are trying to do, manipulate the police into assaulting innocent victims.
For murder well I would agree only if things end up like that poor guy in kansas.
It's clear that right now the punishment is not up to par with the crime and is not enough of a deterrent.
Psychology supports the idea that the best deterrent is not severity of punishment, but the likelihood of getting caught.
Jail time would likely be fine, but folks have to be shown that the authorities will respond and punish you for calling these in. Once swatting becomes synonymous with jail time, it will stop.
While that is a fair assumption, i don't fully agree with it for one reason. Crime is usually synonymous with jail time, yet many criminals keep robbing and attempting murdering, actually killing, and they serve a few years with possible reduction of penalty for "good behavior" then go back to committing crimes.
Despite what psychology dictates, i believe that severe punishment, where applicable, should be enforced. Key words: where applicable (based on the severity of the crime, and attempted murder is IMO bad enough).
attempted murder means that there was an intention to kill, when someone 'SWAT's' another person, then that imo can be classed as 'intention', its no different to someone pointing a gun at someone else and pulling the trigger, the intention is to do harm to another, with death being the most likely outcome, just because for whatever reason the bullet did not hit the target, does not decrease from the intention to do harm. I don't believe there is any circumstance where SWAT'ing cannot be interpretted as at the very least, attempted murder, there is a clear intention to do harm, with a significant possibility of death being the result, so call it what it is, attempted murder.
Your reasoning is wrong, swatting is more akin to assault. Swatting is done with the clear intent to cause harm to another which is pretty much the definition of assault...not murder or attempted murder etc.
You can't reasonably say when someone swats someone else they intend for that person to be murdered unless you have magical powers and can read minds and then magically have to courts accept your magic powers as evidence.
Assault is hitting someone, it rarely involves using a deadly weapon which is why that is a seperate category of itself, it rarely results in significant injury, the difference is that when someone is SWAT'd there is a significant risk of the person or persons being SWAT'd being shot, as has already been demonstrated, which is why i made the analogy of the pointed gun, the intention is to do harm, i could for instance shoot at you with the intention to injur your leg or arm, but despite this intention you suffer a fatal wound, or perhaps i am such a poor shot that i miss you entirely, either way there was the intention to cause harm even if no harm was actually done other than you suffering a bit of nasty scare. It does not take magical powers of deduction but just basic reasoning to decide that if you carry out an action that puts another persons life at risk, then your intention is to do harm, you are not after all sending them a nasty note with a bouquet of flowers through interflora
Not really.....2nd degree assault is a fist fight...1st degree is using a weapon that can cause serious physical harm or causing sever physical harm to someone. Pointing a gun at someone without firing in most places can be charged as a 1st degree assault. Firing it has a different charge.
Fortnite is a 13+ game, his parents should not be allowing him to play it. Also how did they find his address, again parents should be making sure kids understand not to give details out. That's one of the reasons there is a 13+ age limit.
We are reaching the stage where there may be calls for players of certain games to register with the police so when they get a call saying its a drug den or whatever they do not overreact!
Regardless of all that a stiff sentence called for, but doubt they will be caught.
That's a good idea, create a database streamers and players can register on which police can check first just to see if it's a possible hoax and perhaps a phone number to call first before they rush in hard.
Makes murdering streamers a lot easier as well!
While I was going to suggest it would be a secure, limited access DB I realized there's no such thing, so you are correct, would likely increase their danger.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I agree with Cizzorz -- whoever did this should rot in a cell for a good long while.
Yeah everyone focus' on the idiot who did this but why in the world have we as society give police the right to bust in your house guns blazing over an unverified anonymous tip? We used to require police to have reasonable suspicion before they violated our privacy and other rights. I don't think a monkey with a phone is reasonable.
First time they ignore or don't take seriously a reported threat and someone gets hurt or killed all hell would be raised over it.
Remember this about the police in any confrontation, if anyone is going to be hurt or killed they will do their utmost to make sure its you and not them.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
This could help backtracking and force people to not make such troll calls
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
When i was this kid's age i was playing local multiplayer (pve and pvp) with my real life friends and it was the best thing ever. And this kid is just 12 years old, he has enough free time to meet up with this friends and play games that way.
This kid's mom is in part responsible for not paying attention to what her kid was doing and the risks he was taking on the internet. Some parents are a bit to flexible with the wrong things.
Just my thoughts.
Depends I guess.
I agree with your general sentiment and a starting charge of making a false report is not enough...it should go under attempted assault as that's what swatters are trying to do, manipulate the police into assaulting innocent victims.
For murder well I would agree only if things end up like that poor guy in kansas.
It's clear that right now the punishment is not up to par with the crime and is not enough of a deterrent.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Wow. That sounds horrible. WTF is wrong with people. Never heard of this before. Filing a false police report is a serious crime isn't it?
Jail time would likely be fine, but folks have to be shown that the authorities will respond and punish you for calling these in. Once swatting becomes synonymous with jail time, it will stop.
Crime is usually synonymous with jail time, yet many criminals keep robbing and attempting murdering, actually killing, and they serve a few years with possible reduction of penalty for "good behavior" then go back to committing crimes.
Despite what psychology dictates, i believe that severe punishment, where applicable, should be enforced. Key words: where applicable (based on the severity of the crime, and attempted murder is IMO bad enough).
Yeah everyone focus' on the idiot who did this but why in the world have we as society give police the right to bust in your house guns blazing over an unverified anonymous tip? We used to require police to have reasonable suspicion before they violated our privacy and other rights. I don't think a monkey with a phone is reasonable.
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
You can't reasonably say when someone swats someone else they intend for that person to be murdered unless you have magical powers and can read minds and then magically have to courts accept your magic powers as evidence.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
If the person calling is an adult and isn't in panic, then the ER operator may ask quite a lot of questions and information, but everyone must be given help whether they are in a condition to answer questions or not.
Now, that's not to say severity has no effect. On the contrary, it can be a powerful deterrent. But you can't punish those you can't prove connected to wrong-doing.
Most likely not. You can witness yourself how punishment work in our society. Hint: police/SWAT destroy people's possessions and lives for no apparent reason while at least *half* of *registered* (let alone unregistered) crimes result in 0 arrests / convictions.
I guess we can consider this episode a good news: after all SWAT didn't kill the teen this time.
Thank you for your time!
It does not take magical powers of deduction but just basic reasoning to decide that if you carry out an action that puts another persons life at risk, then your intention is to do harm, you are not after all sending them a nasty note with a bouquet of flowers through interflora
Scratch that idea.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Remember this about the police in any confrontation, if anyone is going to be hurt or killed they will do their utmost to make sure its you and not them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon