Let the pre-Alpha cash shop items flow...

Slapshot1188

This time its for a “Renewal Festival” which was added to the “Lore” a few days ago.
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/24270/The-Cardinal-Miracle-of-the-Second-Age
 What fortunate timing...

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/24320/renewal-festival-store-event

AshyLarry24

Cool, already sounds like the foxcelot is being well received. 

I'm pretty excited, especially with how successful the last sale was. I was beginning to get worried about the lack of income, but it's now seeming like they might be able to extend this without going to publisher for awhile.  

Slapshot1188

AshyLarry24 said:

Cool, already sounds like the foxcelot is being well received. 

I'm pretty excited, especially with how successful the last sale was. I was beginning to get worried about the lack of income, but it's now seeming like they might be able to extend this without going to publisher for awhile.  

I will say it again.  Shutting the cash shop at launch is a big mistake.  They are literally selling millions of dollars of items before launch... shutting it down just cuts off revenue that they desperately need.

I'll always prefer no cash shop at all, but having one that lets people buy millions of dollars of items before launch and then shutting it just seems like the worst of all worlds.

AshyLarry24

As long as they're able to fund the game, I'm down for them shutting it down at launch.  It's not like they couldn't bring back certain items later on if their monetization methods don't pan out.

mystichaze

OMG that Foxcelot is so damn cute.  

mystichaze

Slapshot1188 said:

AshyLarry24 said:

Cool, already sounds like the foxcelot is being well received. 

I'm pretty excited, especially with how successful the last sale was. I was beginning to get worried about the lack of income, but it's now seeming like they might be able to extend this without going to publisher for awhile.  

I will say it again.  Shutting the cash shop at launch is a big mistake.  They are literally selling millions of dollars of items before launch... shutting it down just cuts off revenue that they desperately need.

I'll always prefer no cash shop at all, but having one that lets people buy millions of dollars of items before launch and then shutting it just seems like the worst of all worlds.

Opening a cash shop with items like these once the game has launched, as we have discussed many times before in these forums, would be detrimental to the intended structure of the game. Though I am sure if they could find things that wouldn't hurt the game's design to put in a cash shop, the community wouldn't be opposed to the implementation post-launch store. 

Wizardry

Absolutely NO WAY,never...notta is a cash shop good for gaming.So if they want to shut it down,you get two thumbs up from me.
However if i feel the game is already ruined by prior cash shop rmt ideals,then i am still not setting foot in the game.

I have to know that 100% of that game world is untouched by outside sources.Then from day 1 of launch,i want a developer to be pro active,have certain flags in place to monitor rmt activity/cheating etc etc.

Once a game and it's economy gets out of hand,might as well shut the game down.

Kyleran

Wizardry said:

Absolutely NO WAY,never...notta is a cash shop good for gaming.So if they want to shut it down,you get two thumbs up from me.
However if i feel the game is already ruined by prior cash shop rmt ideals,then i am still not setting foot in the game.

I have to know that 100% of that game world is untouched by outside sources.Then from day 1 of launch,i want a developer to be pro active,have certain flags in place to monitor rmt activity/cheating etc etc.

Once a game and it's economy gets out of hand,might as well shut the game down.

Well that ship has sailed for almost every crowd funded title out there. Especially for this title they've sold so many advantages pre launch it's just crazy not to embrace it post launch as well.

I'll be very surprised if any indie can do a decent job to combat out of game RMT or even in game cheating, they just won't have the resources.

I think Caspian even said they won't be spending a lot of resources policing out of game RMT. 

Watching the devs of other recent titles struggle against this has been disheartening, at best one can hope for a holding action and little more. 

People suck.  

StaalBurgher

I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.

Octagon7711

"All pets and mounts can grow old and die."  I don't know about this game.  Hope it works out for them.

Vrika

StaalBurgher said:

I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.

It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.

Slapshot1188

StaalBurgher said:

I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.

They will experience it every day when they have to obey the laws of the Kings, Dukes, Counts and Mayors who bought those titles right? Or when one of those declares you an outlaw (simply for not liking you) and you are forced to go find somewhere else to live... Or simply when you want to be a harvester and find that someone else has used real cash to buy a big supply of the hard to recover, finite resources... or that the nodes for this resource are on someonelse's property (that they bought).


People will experience this every single day.  To deny it is utter arrogance IMHO.


PS:  Remember that it has already been PROVEN that some of the highest donors will be the biggest trolls.  Just look back at the very first name reserved when they opened the name reservation process.   It was a "troll" attempt that "mortified" the developer.   
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/472034/studio-mortified-that-folks-are-using-their-pay-to-reserve-a-name-system-to-troll-other-players/p1
The game hasn't even started yet.

Scot

I am rather puzzled but that what happens when you don't follow MMOs not out yet and dip in when you see a thread title that looks odd.

Why don't they just remove the items they don't want people to have post launch and keep the cash shop open?

No cash shop can only be good news, I see the built in advantages (P2B) that Slapshot is talking about but the only good cash shop is one that is closed. Even if it was left open just for cosmetics as we all know it would end up P2W not just in terms of land but in terms of potions and gear.

Mendel

mystichaze said:

Slapshot1188 said:

AshyLarry24 said:

Cool, already sounds like the foxcelot is being well received. 

I'm pretty excited, especially with how successful the last sale was. I was beginning to get worried about the lack of income, but it's now seeming like they might be able to extend this without going to publisher for awhile.  

I will say it again.  Shutting the cash shop at launch is a big mistake.  They are literally selling millions of dollars of items before launch... shutting it down just cuts off revenue that they desperately need.

I'll always prefer no cash shop at all, but having one that lets people buy millions of dollars of items before launch and then shutting it just seems like the worst of all worlds.

Opening a cash shop with items like these once the game has launched, as we have discussed many times before in these forums, would be detrimental to the intended structure of the game. Though I am sure if they could find things that wouldn't hurt the game's design to put in a cash shop, the community wouldn't be opposed to the implementation post-launch store. 

If any specific item would be "detrimental to the intended structure of the game", why would selling it prior to a non-wipe launch not also be detrimental?  That's just seems to be playing semantics.

Dleatherus

same drama crap that has been discussed in several other threads already in this section of the forums

welcome to the beat a dead horse society

mystichaze

Mendel said:

mystichaze said:

Slapshot1188 said:

AshyLarry24 said:

Cool, already sounds like the foxcelot is being well received. 

I'm pretty excited, especially with how successful the last sale was. I was beginning to get worried about the lack of income, but it's now seeming like they might be able to extend this without going to publisher for awhile.  

I will say it again.  Shutting the cash shop at launch is a big mistake.  They are literally selling millions of dollars of items before launch... shutting it down just cuts off revenue that they desperately need.

I'll always prefer no cash shop at all, but having one that lets people buy millions of dollars of items before launch and then shutting it just seems like the worst of all worlds.

Opening a cash shop with items like these once the game has launched, as we have discussed many times before in these forums, would be detrimental to the intended structure of the game. Though I am sure if they could find things that wouldn't hurt the game's design to put in a cash shop, the community wouldn't be opposed to the implementation post-launch store. 

If any specific item would be "detrimental to the intended structure of the game", why would selling it prior to a non-wipe launch not also be detrimental?  That's just seems to be playing semantics.

Ok, let me try to explain this once again. Those that are purchasing items beforehand are going to be the ones that are filling/building the world prior to launch. Once launch happens it will be players that are going to be the merchants, professionals, breeding pets/mounts, making equipment, tailoring, teaching apprentices. making jewelry, taming wild animals, building infrastructure ext... If those items are sold in a shop it would be harmful to the economies and the player's income. (No loot drops to acquire gold in)

Let's take the Foxcelot for example, say I buy a male and female so that I can breed them for resale purposes. (Don't forget they do grow old and die, plus they need to be feed so they don't starve to death). If a store was to sell them after launch it would take away from my chosen profession. 

Slapshot1188

mystichaze said:

Let's take the Foxcelot for example, say I buy a male and female so that I can breed them for resale purposes. (Let's not forget they do grow old and die, plus they need to be feed so they don't starve to death). If a store was to sell them after launch it would take away from my chosen profession. 

Right, so you bought your Foxcelot's with cash so you can breed them and sell them in game so it would undermine your purchase if someone else could do the same.

Fully understand. 

Ungood

Slapshot1188 said:

mystichaze said:

Let's take the Foxcelot for example, say I buy a male and female so that I can breed them for resale purposes. (Let's not forget they do grow old and die, plus they need to be feed so they don't starve to death). If a store was to sell them after launch it would take away from my chosen profession. 

Right, so you bought your Foxcelot's with cash so you can breed them and sell them in game so it would undermine your purchase if someone else could do the same.

Fully understand. 

Well yes.. but it does not simply undermine the purchase. It is not so much a matter of their money investment, but having their faith validated. IE: They Put their Faith into the game before there was a game, buy buying these things, so they want their commitment  and faith validated, not simply the 20 dollars.

Now, everyone else who also had that same faith could also get a Foxcelot, as well, but they would need to have believed in the product before there was a product, just like the others.

Those that show up after there is a product (Those faithless that came only when they saw) don't deserve anything more then a game to play, and paying full price the privileged to do.

It's simple to understand really.

Ungood

I still feel they will need some kind of aggressive cash shop to keep this thing alive.. the question only at this point.. is what to sell.

Slapshot1188

Ungood said:

Slapshot1188 said:

mystichaze said:

Let's take the Foxcelot for example, say I buy a male and female so that I can breed them for resale purposes. (Let's not forget they do grow old and die, plus they need to be feed so they don't starve to death). If a store was to sell them after launch it would take away from my chosen profession. 

Right, so you bought your Foxcelot's with cash so you can breed them and sell them in game so it would undermine your purchase if someone else could do the same.

Fully understand. 

Well yes.. but it does not simply undermine the purchase. It is not so much a matter of their money investment, but having their faith validated. IE: They Put their Faith into the game before there was a game, buy buying these things, so they want their commitment  and faith validated, not simply the 20 dollars.

Now, everyone else who also had that same faith could also get a Foxcelot, as well, but they would need to have believed in the product before there was a product, just like the others.

Those that show up after there is a product (Those faithless that came only when they saw) don't deserve anything more then a game to play, and paying full price the privileged to do.

It's simple to understand really.

But the developer and most of those buying the advantages will not admit what you just posted is true.  If that was the official stance I could absolutely understand it.  Maybe not agree, but would understand.

Dleatherus

these 'arguments' and trains of logic are really illogical

the point has been made that if this was to hold true, then any player who started a game before another player did, and raised their skills, amassed loot etc would have an insurmountable advantage that would deter other players from joining

every mmo released that has had players join after the first three months after launch proves this is a flawed argument

that said, i'm not a huge fan of cash shops period

i much prefer everybody paying a $15/mo sub and be on a level playing field, regardless of whether i join at game launch or a year later when everybody else is way ahead

however that would take having a large amount of funding available up front to develop the game

that isn't the case here, and SBS has chosen not to compromise their vision of the game and their planned financial model by bringing on a publisher right now

if you look at the fact that the development of any mmo is a risky venture financially, and then add on top of that SBS's different financial model, and then add on top of that an ambitious range of game features that have some people understandably saying it can't be done, if i was a publisher who's sole interest is return on initial investment, i wouldn't touch it either

and yet SBS's vision of the game has appealed to enough potential players to have now crowd funded $4 million - something they didn't expect - and they can continue, for now, developing the game 

it's a fact that some folks are going to take the stance that SBS is deceiving it's player base, and some folks are going to take the stance that it's worth taking the risk of pledging to see if comes to fruition, and some folks are going to take the stance of liking the concept, doubting it will come out, and thus watching and waiting before spending a single penny

that's all there is to it

i hope we're not going to see these types of threads come up over and over again every time they put something new in the pre launch cash shop in order to continue to generate income to develop the game, and rehash the same circular 'arguments' over and over again amongst the same group of posters (whether you are for, against, or watching) where we already clearly know each other's stance on the matter

 

Slapshot1188

The beauty of forums is that you can ignore discussions you find boring or repetitive.

Dleatherus

another beauty of forums is that you can comment on discussions you find boring or repetitive and explain your reasoning behind finding them to be so

Ungood

Slapshot1188 said:

Ungood said:

Slapshot1188 said:

mystichaze said:

Let's take the Foxcelot for example, say I buy a male and female so that I can breed them for resale purposes. (Let's not forget they do grow old and die, plus they need to be feed so they don't starve to death). If a store was to sell them after launch it would take away from my chosen profession. 

Right, so you bought your Foxcelot's with cash so you can breed them and sell them in game so it would undermine your purchase if someone else could do the same.

Fully understand. 

Well yes.. but it does not simply undermine the purchase. It is not so much a matter of their money investment, but having their faith validated. IE: They Put their Faith into the game before there was a game, buy buying these things, so they want their commitment  and faith validated, not simply the 20 dollars.

Now, everyone else who also had that same faith could also get a Foxcelot, as well, but they would need to have believed in the product before there was a product, just like the others.

Those that show up after there is a product (Those faithless that came only when they saw) don't deserve anything more then a game to play, and paying full price the privileged to do.

It's simple to understand really.

But the developer and most of those buying the advantages will not admit what you just posted is true.  If that was the official stance I could absolutely understand it.  Maybe not agree, but would understand.

Eh.. I understand the developer wanting to keep things Politically Correct and all that jazz..

But the players.. Eh.. I'd admit it. But then then no one accused me of trying to be diplomatic.

Slapshot1188

Dleatherus said:

another beauty of forums is that you can comment on discussions you find boring or repetitive and explain your reasoning behind finding them to be so

Sure you can.  Every time you do so just extends the "boring" discussion.  But it's a free forum!

Dleatherus

thank you for underscoring the point i was making