i never could find much liking in the ESO combat system..
until.... i did some research...
there is definately some skill in the combat..
weaving light and heavy attacks into your rotation
knowing how and when to cancel annimations
switching skillbars on the fly
knowing how and when to counterattack
offcourse the dodging..
i used to just stand there and use my skillbars skills just like on wow or other Mmo’s
and yes thats kinda slow and boring
but now i have found the true depth in the system, and i love it, i really do..
actually the combat has grown so much on me over the past 2 months that it is currently on top of my list for all MMO’s
strange isn’t it, how with a few small online lessons, the feeling totally changed..
it actually feels like real combat now to me.. lots of reactional things to do..
and i think skill really sets the good players apart..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
Role differentiation is prominent and frequent synergy use (especially now that synergies are off the GDC) becomes a standard part of your rotation adding an important mechanic you never see in solo play.
If you're not running dungeons you're missing out on some of the best combat.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
IMO it's a psychological thing because it's a channeled attack with several damage pulses so you feel like something is happening while using it whereas all the other weapons feel more like a pause than an active component of the fight.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
i am very happy with my current build
and the playstyle of eso combat in general..
why should i invest more time investing youtube vids instead of actually playing the game?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Edit: I understood that the OP was not saying that, but he made me think back to threads where posters go on about it.
ESO combat has a rhythm that is partly dependent on you skill build, weapon choice and level of familiarity with the game. And I can say with confidence, since I have played all the classes with umpteen different builds each to max level, that some feel better and more natural to me than others. There's very much a personal playing style thing at work here as well as a reaction to different types of content that get you out of your comfort zone and force you to rethink your builds.
For example the generic solo and grinding AOE-heavy PVE style just does not work in PVP where you want to play a burst game doing as much single target damage just as quick as you can.
I have my own gripes about the game but the feel of combat ain't one of them.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I think it's because of the way you weave weapon attacks in ESO but in most other MMO combat the basic attacks are automated and you're just focusing on ability rotation and cool downs and those rotations feel very similar whether you're PVEing or PVPing.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Sprint
Stealth
Get Skyshard
Stealth
Sneak to next Skyshard
Sz
We've been waiting for you... ;-)
~~ postlarval ~~
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I hate the weaving aspect; it's just an exploit that they couldn't be bothered to fix so they allowed it and the game is now balanced around it. I mastered it though, I've even completed Maelstrom Arena, so that opinion isn't because I'm not good at the combat. I just feel like it's busy work for no reason other than for the sake of it. It's not about skill, it's about whether you can be bothered to do it or not. My point is that you shouldn't have to.
It lacks impact and feels floaty, which is the worst thing about it. Very little satisfaction most of the time, with some rare exceptions like when Mage's Fury finishes off a kill, for example.
I don't like that it doesn't have cooldowns. Cooldowns help balance a game better imo and help with the pace of combat. Duel wielders just running around spamming Rapid Strikes or constantly whirling on trash mobs is a joke. People being able to spam heals in PvP is a joke. For questing, you can literally one button your way through the whole game using skills like Bloodthirst. Some people might like this but it's not my favourite thing.
I hate how viable builds, by which I mean the top tier type where you can solo things like Maelstrom Arena, have you constantly swapping weapons to get to the skills you've put on the other bar. Another time where they have balanced the end-game around a pointless mechanic, you need 'all' 10-12 skills to win and that's a fact. It's redundant, not skilful. Having to swap, cast the ultimate on your other bar, then swap back is not good mechanics. It's extra busy work for no reason and just looks ridiculous cosmetically. Just let me pull out my bow so I can drop a Storm Atronach on someone's head, HUZAZAARGGHH! Two skill bars is great, swapping them every 5 seconds or less is crap and no fun. It would be better if the weapon swapping was used for utility or situational reasons or just for a change, so that it's a choice instead of a requirement. GW2 has this problem as well but at least it works better cosmetically. Personally, I think weapon swapping needs to disappear from MMOs if they insist on it being used this way.
This probably sounds overly negative but really it's just intentional criticism from a fairly experienced player and most players won't experience the weapon swapping issue if they ignore things like Maelstrom or raids. I've played the game to death and managed to live with the combat system. I know they won't change anything now, it'd be a NGE situation type nightmare if they did.
Overall though, I put it very low on my list of combat systems since it's full of redundancy. It was the game's content that kept me playing for as long as I did.
Wow, that really turned into an essay lol.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
That's where animation canceling comes from. When DPSers figured out they could cancel ability animations by blocking or bashing at thin air and increase their DPS quite a bit by forcing those shorter animations what was ZOS supposed to do? Get rid of active blocking?
And how the heck do you have active blocking in a game with global cool downs?
They built combat around the ability to instantly change your mind and that's why when it's played well, it feels very fast paced.
I quite like it this way and the old style MMOs with GCDs and nothing but roll-dodge for active damage mitigation are the ones that feel clunky to me.
I can understand players having a preference for one type of MMO combat or the other. But I find it amusing when I read all the posts in the official forums from people that want to get rid of animation canceling and have no clue that active blocking would also have to go if they do that.
My advise to DPSers who think animation canceling (and weaving which is part of that) is a lazy kludge, is to roll a tank and L2P a tank properly in ESO. If you do that you'd finally understand why it's there and how it would be a totally different game without it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Combat should be a bit slower so you have more time to react with no animation cancelling or you shouldn't be able to cancel your block. As in, your block can cancel skills but you can't cancel the block immediately after. That way blocking would lower DPS instead of being used as a way to increase it, as it should.
I didn't say global cooldown, I said cooldowns. Like, Rapid Strikes can only be used once every 10 seconds or something.
ROFLMAO! BOOM!!!!! told the noob to get a tank... LOL!
Sz
No one is asking to get rid of active blocking/interupts, just stop skills being cast if you cancel them.
I agree that global CDs are terrible
ESO is by no means the only game where you can get extra DPS by animation canceling. You can in many other MMOs and single player games. Blade and Soul and Mass Effect to name just a couple.
And believe it or not, each ability in ESO does have a minimum time it needs to play out before it can be cancelled and still apply its effect: cancel it too soon and you get nothing. Try doing a keyboard or mouse macro to do the animation cancelling for you and you'll quickly run into having to introduce delays of different lengths depending on what it is you're trying to cancel. And yes I do have first hand experience with those macros because I did exactly that with my stamsorc several years ago just to see how it could be done. And no I don't use macros while playing because I hardly ever feel a need to animation cancel with the content I normally play and when I do want to pump out that extra DPS on a boss fight I can do it manually easy enough.
When you're developing a game you can set the hit/damage calculation to happen as soon as the key press is detected, at the very end of the animation or anywhere in between. In ESO's case, as well as many other games, that calculation happens close to the start after a short delay. Why they decided to do it that way instead of after a longer delay I don't have the technical expertise to tell you. Maybe they were going all-in on fast pace and the cumulative effect of having all calculations have a longer delay didn't feel right to them... IDK why they went this way but since they're not the only developers who chose to do that for their game I assume there must be some nearly universal reason why short delays are chosen over longer ones.
Your suggestion that a block always cancels the damage of an ability if the animation is still playing would be something at the total opposite end of the spectrum and would require a post full animation calculation. I can't think offhand of a game that does it that way but I'd bet that would feel much slower than ESO combat.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
My bitch is that animation canceling should NOT be a requisite to decent DPS scores. It's sloppy, piss-poor design; intentional or otherwise.