Belgium's Gaming Commission Finds Loot Boxes 'Illegal', Seeks Removal - MMORPG.com News

SBFord

Belgium's Gaming Commission Finds Loot Boxes 'Illegal', Seeks Removal - MMORPG.com News

The Belgian Gaming Commission has completed its investigation of loot boxes in Overwatch, Counter-strike: Global Offensive, FIFA 18 and Star Wars Battlefront 2. The committee determined that Overwatch, Counter-strike: Global Offensive and FIFA 18 are in violation of Belgian gambling laws and have determined that they are illegal. As a result, loot boxes must be removed from these games or "risk a prison sentence up to 5 years and a fine of 800k Euro".

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Dauzqul

Good!

Scot

Damn right and we have left the Belgians to lead the charge, where are our governments in this?

Aeander

About damn time.

Horusra

Like to see how they enforce this now.

Renoaku

Can't they just add a loop hole to this.

Buy currency in game for example diamonds diamonds hold no real dollar value.

Diamonds can also be earned free in game - used just to say it's an in game currency can be obtained free.

Diamonds are then used to purchase loot boxes thus are no longer bought for real money?

Would loop hole be legal since games like arche age are not talked about?

Deadrites87

wish the us would regulate this stuff to..I can think of one game that comes to mind that blatantly tries to hook people into buying gambling boxes...Elder Scrolls Online. It's definitely a touchy subject but this is where we're at with gaming now. I have no problem with cash shop items by the way but manipulating people into buying rngboxes and exploiting addictive tendencies in people is where I draw the line and if we continue to accept it, the more they will push it.

Scot

Renoaku said:

Can't they just add a loop hole to this.

Buy currency in game for example diamonds.

Diamonds can also be earned free in game - used just to say it's an in game currency can be obtained free.

Diamonds are then used to purchase loot boxes thus are no longer bought for real money?

Would loop hole be legal since games like arche age are not talked about?

Something like this will certainly be tried, we need to put a stop to gambling in gaming. What that means is there is no random factor in anything you can purchase and everything is bound to account.

Deadrites87

So then please tell me why I can still buy gambling boxes where I live and we don't even have a lottery because it is considered gambling. The fact of the matter is that this is primarily new territory that hasn't had any attention. If my own opinions happen to agree with the vast majority of people and that makes me apart of the "bandwagon" then I guess I am. What is the problem then if it isn't these companies trying to exploit people for profit?

Vrika

Renoaku said:

Can't they just add a loop hole to this.



Buy currency in game for example diamonds diamonds hold no real dollar value.



Diamonds can also be earned free in game - used just to say it's an in game currency can be obtained free.



Diamonds are then used to purchase loot boxes thus are no longer bought for real money?



Would loop hole be legal since games like arche age are not talked about?

Games like ArcheAge are not talked about because they're not being investigated. They did not investigate every game on the planet, just some of the AAA games.

lahnmir

Torval said:

Deadrites87 said:

wish the us would regulate this stuff to..I can think of one game that comes to mind that blatantly tries to hook people into buying gambling boxes...Elder Scrolls Online. It's definitely a touchy subject but this is where we're at with gaming now. I have no problem with cash shop items by the way but manipulating people into buying rngboxes and exploiting addictive tendencies in people is where I draw the line and if we continue to accept it, the more they will push it.

The US does heavily regulate gambling. Gambling is regulated at the state level. Some states gambling is legal, in other states it is not.

Each of the states that have called it gambling (Belgium and Netherlands) have not consistently ruled on their faults so they're not requiring the same restrictions. In the Netherlands, they're only requiring 4 companies/games to make their loot crates less attractive and not auto-open. Neither see them as gambling in the same, or the same sense as other forms of gambling and aren't really sure where to move forward with the popular public opinion.

The sad part is most of you don't even get that this isn't the problem. You're okay with one poison but not the other because the bandwagon says so. This won't solve the problem but have fun in your swimming pool of platitudes.

Ohh wow, thats a pretty pessimistic attitude, not used to that coming from you. And it might just be a small start, not really a solution and hard to enforce, but isn't it much, much, much more important that finally something is getting done, how little and ineffective it might be?

I think it is awesome. And not because I am Dutch (it helps, we rock) but because finally the issue is being aknowledged by officials which means change might be coming.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir  

Xingbairong

This subject has felt like a waste of time since it was started.
Kids shouldn't be allowed to have access to credit cards it's the parents fault and people who get easily addicted need to be watched by their friends and family and not expect gaming companies to babysit.

I personally have bought a loot box literally only once and it was in Path of Exile after I had leftover points that I didn't need. I'm mentioning this because I want to point out that I don't care if lootboxes are in the games or not because I don't buy any, but it still feels stupid removing them because people don't care for their friends and family.

Also as it was already mentioned there is a workaround if they put currency that you can buy and use that currency to buy boxes afterwards.

Also I would love to see how Belgium will imprison "Blizzard" for example... It feels like they are misunderstanding that companies stand behind this and not one single person lol. Good luck actually suing and winning a case against any big gaming company.

If I was Blizzard I would just IP block Belgium ips and see if the government is happy with that. Of course this is a really shitty move because there is no reason to punish players that have nothing to do with this, but I personally can't imagine Blizzard removing lootboxes from Overwatch. Same with CS:GO and FIFA. Why would they when that's where all their money comes from.

And one last thing. Removing the boxes won't really solve anything because then gaming companies will just release expensive skins nonstop and I'm pretty sure that 'people at risk" and kids will waste money buying each one, so nothing will change.

Manestream

probably change it somehow where one still has to buy crates but will have 1 item they will know and the rest will be random so nothing really would change. 

Loot crates/Box's was just a money making racket by games dev's, they knew they were expensive to buy and also knew that you had less than a 5% chance of getting what you wanted or somethign reasonable.
Ok if there freely obtained but buying them with real money is a nono. It kills games.

Bring back the P2P monthly subscription and do away with these loot box's and in game shop/stores. At least you knew where you stood and how much said game would be on a monthly basis.

I see even these buy 2 play games have dropped the buy 2 play option, gone F2P with the shitty in game store/shop and loot crate/box's type thing. Those that bought they game get screwed over with the new versions as they lose out.

Krynt0k

I cant believe SBford is agreeing with Torvals Bullying. I come to this site less and less everyday because of that attitude.

laserit

Xingbairong said:

This subject has felt like a waste of time since it was started.
Kids shouldn't be allowed to have access to credit cards it's the parents fault and people who get easily addicted need to be watched by their friends and family and not expect gaming companies to babysit.

I personally have bought a loot box literally only once and it was in Path of Exile after I had leftover points that I didn't need. I'm mentioning this because I want to point out that I don't care if lootboxes are in the games or not because I don't buy any, but it still feels stupid removing them because people don't care for their friends and family.

Also as it was already mentioned there is a workaround if they put currency that you can buy and use that currency to buy boxes afterwards.

Also I would love to see how Belgium will imprison "Blizzard" for example... It feels like they are misunderstanding that companies stand behind this and not one single person lol. Good luck actually suing and winning a case against any big gaming company.

If I was Blizzard I would just IP block Belgium ips and see if the government is happy with that. Of course this is a really shitty move because there is no reason to punish players that have nothing to do with this, but I personally can't imagine Blizzard removing lootboxes from Overwatch. Same with CS:GO and FIFA. Why would they when that's where all their money comes from.

And one last thing. Removing the boxes won't really solve anything because then gaming companies will just release expensive skins nonstop and I'm pretty sure that 'people at risk" and kids will waste money buying each one, so nothing will change.

You don't need a credit card. Go down to your local candy/corner store and they are full of gaming cash shop cards for every game under the sun.

edit: who do you think these cards are for? Adults with credit cards?  

Deadrites87

Torval said:

lahnmir said:

Torval said:

Deadrites87 said:

wish the us would regulate this stuff to..I can think of one game that comes to mind that blatantly tries to hook people into buying gambling boxes...Elder Scrolls Online. It's definitely a touchy subject but this is where we're at with gaming now. I have no problem with cash shop items by the way but manipulating people into buying rngboxes and exploiting addictive tendencies in people is where I draw the line and if we continue to accept it, the more they will push it.

The US does heavily regulate gambling. Gambling is regulated at the state level. Some states gambling is legal, in other states it is not.

Each of the states that have called it gambling (Belgium and Netherlands) have not consistently ruled on their faults so they're not requiring the same restrictions. In the Netherlands, they're only requiring 4 companies/games to make their loot crates less attractive and not auto-open. Neither see them as gambling in the same, or the same sense as other forms of gambling and aren't really sure where to move forward with the popular public opinion.

The sad part is most of you don't even get that this isn't the problem. You're okay with one poison but not the other because the bandwagon says so. This won't solve the problem but have fun in your swimming pool of platitudes.

Ohh wow, thats a pretty pessimistic attitude, not used to that coming from you. And it might just be a small start, not really a solution and hard to enforce, but isn't it much, much, much more important that finally something is getting done, how little and ineffective it might be?

I think it is awesome. And not because I am Dutch (it helps, we rock) but because finally the issue is being aknowledged by officials which means change might be coming.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir  

I'm a perpetual pessimist. I almost always see the darker potential people will go for. The issue isn't with gambling boxes. It's a symptom of a deeper predatory monetizing strategy that no one wants to dig into. Maybe solving the problem is too deep, but I'm not going to cheer at what amounts to political and social grandstanding.

Even though I take a shot at Europeans for the celebrating the easy answer, Americans aren't any more interested in an actual solution either. And when Hawaii is in the news blowing its own horn on how it's looking out for us, I'm there saying the same thing.

The problem with removing a sore without getting rid of the infection is that something else, no better, will take its place.

That is pretty much what I said to begin LOL. What is going to stop these companies from using this monetization? Could it be stricter regulation?

laserit

Torval said:

laserit said:

Xingbairong said:

This subject has felt like a waste of time since it was started.
Kids shouldn't be allowed to have access to credit cards it's the parents fault and people who get easily addicted need to be watched by their friends and family and not expect gaming companies to babysit.

I personally have bought a loot box literally only once and it was in Path of Exile after I had leftover points that I didn't need. I'm mentioning this because I want to point out that I don't care if lootboxes are in the games or not because I don't buy any, but it still feels stupid removing them because people don't care for their friends and family.

Also as it was already mentioned there is a workaround if they put currency that you can buy and use that currency to buy boxes afterwards.

Also I would love to see how Belgium will imprison "Blizzard" for example... It feels like they are misunderstanding that companies stand behind this and not one single person lol. Good luck actually suing and winning a case against any big gaming company.

If I was Blizzard I would just IP block Belgium ips and see if the government is happy with that. Of course this is a really shitty move because there is no reason to punish players that have nothing to do with this, but I personally can't imagine Blizzard removing lootboxes from Overwatch. Same with CS:GO and FIFA. Why would they when that's where all their money comes from.

And one last thing. Removing the boxes won't really solve anything because then gaming companies will just release expensive skins nonstop and I'm pretty sure that 'people at risk" and kids will waste money buying each one, so nothing will change.

You don't need a credit card. Go down to your local candy/corner store and they are full of gaming cash shop cards for every game under the sun.

They're right next to the physical loot boxes and RNG risk machines preying on innocent children that you and others aren't outraged over. Notice how gamers only care about lootcrates and predatory monetization when it affects them directly.

And what physical loot boxes and RNG risk machines are we talking about?

Affects me directly? Doesn't effect me one little bit except for maybe having to support welfare gamer losers, who are too fucking lazy and addicted to work.

edit: and by that i'm talking about the ones who do that by choice.

Aeander

laserit said:

Torval said:

laserit said:

Xingbairong said:

This subject has felt like a waste of time since it was started.
Kids shouldn't be allowed to have access to credit cards it's the parents fault and people who get easily addicted need to be watched by their friends and family and not expect gaming companies to babysit.

I personally have bought a loot box literally only once and it was in Path of Exile after I had leftover points that I didn't need. I'm mentioning this because I want to point out that I don't care if lootboxes are in the games or not because I don't buy any, but it still feels stupid removing them because people don't care for their friends and family.

Also as it was already mentioned there is a workaround if they put currency that you can buy and use that currency to buy boxes afterwards.

Also I would love to see how Belgium will imprison "Blizzard" for example... It feels like they are misunderstanding that companies stand behind this and not one single person lol. Good luck actually suing and winning a case against any big gaming company.

If I was Blizzard I would just IP block Belgium ips and see if the government is happy with that. Of course this is a really shitty move because there is no reason to punish players that have nothing to do with this, but I personally can't imagine Blizzard removing lootboxes from Overwatch. Same with CS:GO and FIFA. Why would they when that's where all their money comes from.

And one last thing. Removing the boxes won't really solve anything because then gaming companies will just release expensive skins nonstop and I'm pretty sure that 'people at risk" and kids will waste money buying each one, so nothing will change.

You don't need a credit card. Go down to your local candy/corner store and they are full of gaming cash shop cards for every game under the sun.

They're right next to the physical loot boxes and RNG risk machines preying on innocent children that you and others aren't outraged over. Notice how gamers only care about lootcrates and predatory monetization when it affects them directly.

And what physical loot boxes and RNG risk machines are we talking about?

Affects me directly? Doesn't effect me one little bit except for maybe having to support welfare gamer losers, who are too fucking lazy and addicted to work.

edit: and by that i'm talking about the ones who do that by choice.

Wait, wait, wait. You think that normal, responsible working adults view these business models as acceptable. Newsflash - responsible working people have bills and are less likely to buy into these mechanics than the bored wealthy gamer or the kid with his parents' credit card. The small percentage of customers that constitute whales are those with no notion of the value of money and plenty of money to spend.

laserit

Aeander said:

laserit said:

Torval said:

laserit said:

Xingbairong said:

This subject has felt like a waste of time since it was started.
Kids shouldn't be allowed to have access to credit cards it's the parents fault and people who get easily addicted need to be watched by their friends and family and not expect gaming companies to babysit.

I personally have bought a loot box literally only once and it was in Path of Exile after I had leftover points that I didn't need. I'm mentioning this because I want to point out that I don't care if lootboxes are in the games or not because I don't buy any, but it still feels stupid removing them because people don't care for their friends and family.

Also as it was already mentioned there is a workaround if they put currency that you can buy and use that currency to buy boxes afterwards.

Also I would love to see how Belgium will imprison "Blizzard" for example... It feels like they are misunderstanding that companies stand behind this and not one single person lol. Good luck actually suing and winning a case against any big gaming company.

If I was Blizzard I would just IP block Belgium ips and see if the government is happy with that. Of course this is a really shitty move because there is no reason to punish players that have nothing to do with this, but I personally can't imagine Blizzard removing lootboxes from Overwatch. Same with CS:GO and FIFA. Why would they when that's where all their money comes from.

And one last thing. Removing the boxes won't really solve anything because then gaming companies will just release expensive skins nonstop and I'm pretty sure that 'people at risk" and kids will waste money buying each one, so nothing will change.

You don't need a credit card. Go down to your local candy/corner store and they are full of gaming cash shop cards for every game under the sun.

They're right next to the physical loot boxes and RNG risk machines preying on innocent children that you and others aren't outraged over. Notice how gamers only care about lootcrates and predatory monetization when it affects them directly.

And what physical loot boxes and RNG risk machines are we talking about?

Affects me directly? Doesn't effect me one little bit except for maybe having to support welfare gamer losers, who are too fucking lazy and addicted to work.

edit: and by that i'm talking about the ones who do that by choice.

Wait, wait, wait. You think that normal, responsible working adults view these business models as acceptable. Newsflash - responsible working people have bills and are less likely to buy into these mechanics than the bored wealthy gamer or the kid with his parents' credit card. The small percentage of customers that constitute whales are those with no notion of the value of money and plenty of money to spend.

I wonder how many of these rich whales are paying 19%+ in interest for their cash shop purchases.

Aeander

laserit said:

Aeander said:

laserit said:

Torval said:

laserit said:

Xingbairong said:

This subject has felt like a waste of time since it was started.
Kids shouldn't be allowed to have access to credit cards it's the parents fault and people who get easily addicted need to be watched by their friends and family and not expect gaming companies to babysit.

I personally have bought a loot box literally only once and it was in Path of Exile after I had leftover points that I didn't need. I'm mentioning this because I want to point out that I don't care if lootboxes are in the games or not because I don't buy any, but it still feels stupid removing them because people don't care for their friends and family.

Also as it was already mentioned there is a workaround if they put currency that you can buy and use that currency to buy boxes afterwards.

Also I would love to see how Belgium will imprison "Blizzard" for example... It feels like they are misunderstanding that companies stand behind this and not one single person lol. Good luck actually suing and winning a case against any big gaming company.

If I was Blizzard I would just IP block Belgium ips and see if the government is happy with that. Of course this is a really shitty move because there is no reason to punish players that have nothing to do with this, but I personally can't imagine Blizzard removing lootboxes from Overwatch. Same with CS:GO and FIFA. Why would they when that's where all their money comes from.

And one last thing. Removing the boxes won't really solve anything because then gaming companies will just release expensive skins nonstop and I'm pretty sure that 'people at risk" and kids will waste money buying each one, so nothing will change.

You don't need a credit card. Go down to your local candy/corner store and they are full of gaming cash shop cards for every game under the sun.

They're right next to the physical loot boxes and RNG risk machines preying on innocent children that you and others aren't outraged over. Notice how gamers only care about lootcrates and predatory monetization when it affects them directly.

And what physical loot boxes and RNG risk machines are we talking about?

Affects me directly? Doesn't effect me one little bit except for maybe having to support welfare gamer losers, who are too fucking lazy and addicted to work.

edit: and by that i'm talking about the ones who do that by choice.

Wait, wait, wait. You think that normal, responsible working adults view these business models as acceptable. Newsflash - responsible working people have bills and are less likely to buy into these mechanics than the bored wealthy gamer or the kid with his parents' credit card. The small percentage of customers that constitute whales are those with no notion of the value of money and plenty of money to spend.

I wonder how many of these rich whales are paying 19%+ in interest for their cash shop purchases.

Hopefully not many?

Edit: To address your point on cash shop cards, these are usually marketed as gift cards. They're good for ... you know... gifts. A whale - someone who spends a lot, often, is going to prefer a faster more convenient payment method than something that requires a trip to the grocery store. These games tend to encourage impulse spending and streak spending that doesn't lend itself to an inconvenient payment method.

Iselin

laserit said:

Aeander said:

laserit said:

Torval said:

laserit said:

Xingbairong said:

This subject has felt like a waste of time since it was started.
Kids shouldn't be allowed to have access to credit cards it's the parents fault and people who get easily addicted need to be watched by their friends and family and not expect gaming companies to babysit.

I personally have bought a loot box literally only once and it was in Path of Exile after I had leftover points that I didn't need. I'm mentioning this because I want to point out that I don't care if lootboxes are in the games or not because I don't buy any, but it still feels stupid removing them because people don't care for their friends and family.

Also as it was already mentioned there is a workaround if they put currency that you can buy and use that currency to buy boxes afterwards.

Also I would love to see how Belgium will imprison "Blizzard" for example... It feels like they are misunderstanding that companies stand behind this and not one single person lol. Good luck actually suing and winning a case against any big gaming company.

If I was Blizzard I would just IP block Belgium ips and see if the government is happy with that. Of course this is a really shitty move because there is no reason to punish players that have nothing to do with this, but I personally can't imagine Blizzard removing lootboxes from Overwatch. Same with CS:GO and FIFA. Why would they when that's where all their money comes from.

And one last thing. Removing the boxes won't really solve anything because then gaming companies will just release expensive skins nonstop and I'm pretty sure that 'people at risk" and kids will waste money buying each one, so nothing will change.

You don't need a credit card. Go down to your local candy/corner store and they are full of gaming cash shop cards for every game under the sun.

They're right next to the physical loot boxes and RNG risk machines preying on innocent children that you and others aren't outraged over. Notice how gamers only care about lootcrates and predatory monetization when it affects them directly.

And what physical loot boxes and RNG risk machines are we talking about?

Affects me directly? Doesn't effect me one little bit except for maybe having to support welfare gamer losers, who are too fucking lazy and addicted to work.

edit: and by that i'm talking about the ones who do that by choice.

Wait, wait, wait. You think that normal, responsible working adults view these business models as acceptable. Newsflash - responsible working people have bills and are less likely to buy into these mechanics than the bored wealthy gamer or the kid with his parents' credit card. The small percentage of customers that constitute whales are those with no notion of the value of money and plenty of money to spend.

I wonder how many of these rich whales are paying 19%+ in interest for their cash shop purchases.

My hunch is that it's most of them. Truly wealthy people are usually much smarter with their money... it's how they got that way

Iselin

IDK how I missed it before but I just noticed the 5 years in jail part...

"So what you in for?"
"I robbed a bank... you?"
"I sold loot crates in games"
"You sick bastard!"

laserit

Aeander said:

laserit said:

Aeander said:

laserit said:

Torval said:

laserit said:

Xingbairong said:

This subject has felt like a waste of time since it was started.
Kids shouldn't be allowed to have access to credit cards it's the parents fault and people who get easily addicted need to be watched by their friends and family and not expect gaming companies to babysit.

I personally have bought a loot box literally only once and it was in Path of Exile after I had leftover points that I didn't need. I'm mentioning this because I want to point out that I don't care if lootboxes are in the games or not because I don't buy any, but it still feels stupid removing them because people don't care for their friends and family.

Also as it was already mentioned there is a workaround if they put currency that you can buy and use that currency to buy boxes afterwards.

Also I would love to see how Belgium will imprison "Blizzard" for example... It feels like they are misunderstanding that companies stand behind this and not one single person lol. Good luck actually suing and winning a case against any big gaming company.

If I was Blizzard I would just IP block Belgium ips and see if the government is happy with that. Of course this is a really shitty move because there is no reason to punish players that have nothing to do with this, but I personally can't imagine Blizzard removing lootboxes from Overwatch. Same with CS:GO and FIFA. Why would they when that's where all their money comes from.

And one last thing. Removing the boxes won't really solve anything because then gaming companies will just release expensive skins nonstop and I'm pretty sure that 'people at risk" and kids will waste money buying each one, so nothing will change.

You don't need a credit card. Go down to your local candy/corner store and they are full of gaming cash shop cards for every game under the sun.

They're right next to the physical loot boxes and RNG risk machines preying on innocent children that you and others aren't outraged over. Notice how gamers only care about lootcrates and predatory monetization when it affects them directly.

And what physical loot boxes and RNG risk machines are we talking about?

Affects me directly? Doesn't effect me one little bit except for maybe having to support welfare gamer losers, who are too fucking lazy and addicted to work.

edit: and by that i'm talking about the ones who do that by choice.

Wait, wait, wait. You think that normal, responsible working adults view these business models as acceptable. Newsflash - responsible working people have bills and are less likely to buy into these mechanics than the bored wealthy gamer or the kid with his parents' credit card. The small percentage of customers that constitute whales are those with no notion of the value of money and plenty of money to spend.

I wonder how many of these rich whales are paying 19%+ in interest for their cash shop purchases.

Hopefully not many?

Anyone's guess

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/23/credit-card-debt-hits-record-high.html

http://time.com/money/4213757/average-american-credit-card-debt/

Aeander

Iselin said:

IDK how I missed it before but I just noticed the 5 years in jail part...

"So what you in for?"
"I robbed a bank... you?"
"I sold loot crates in games"
"You sick bastard!"

"You son of a bitch. I had to rob that bank because my son spent $10,000 on FIFA 18!"

Wizardry

Iselin said:

IDK how I missed it before but I just noticed the 5 years in jail part...

"So what you in for?"
"I robbed a bank... you?"
"I sold loot crates in games"
"You sick bastard!"

Well we already have far worse scenarios than that,like a murderer might get less time than a drug dealer.
If people pay attention at all in this world ,they would realize that laws over the years are often manipulated for personal agenda.I would not doubt for one minute than many laws have loopholes created by bad people in hopes of getting off themselves or family/friends from criminal activity.
I have seen several cases of when a government official was found guilty of some wrong doing,stealing funds illegal connections when giving away government contracts etc etc.


We can even look a Trump,he basically says Snowden should be hung or thrown in jail forever for treason but when information comes out on Trump he switches gears and say oh wait a minute,they must have used illegal wire tapping.So somehow trump wants to change the story from him and his colleagues from acting within treason and breaking many national security laws and pointing the finger elsewhere.Then when confronted with his teams illegal activity would mean jail time Trump laughed and said "i would love to see them try and arrest me".

So you can see laws change depending who you are and how much power you have.Oh i might need to get a family member off a murder charge,i'll make up some law that if he is not brought to court within 3 days ,he is a free man.All this stuff happens everywhere  everyday.

The point of loot boxes is that obviously i don't make the law,but as laws stands right now they most certainly have ALWAYS been illegal,it is just that the law is always broken down into divisions letting criminal activity get off on a technicality."Well we can't really accuse them under this division of law ,hmm it might fall under the jurisdiction of that section of law but we are not sure etc etc.

Phry

Aeander said:

Iselin said:

IDK how I missed it before but I just noticed the 5 years in jail part...

"So what you in for?"
"I robbed a bank... you?"
"I sold loot crates in games"
"You sick bastard!"

"You son of a bitch. I had to rob that bank because my son spent $10,000 on FIFA 18!"

Well at least he wasn't trying to date Taylor Swift!