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LFG, LFD, LFR
delete5230
Member EpicPosts: 7,081
Blizzard did a lot of things right with Vanilla. They knew how to make a living breathing world for players to live in, they also knew how people think and react in situations and made an all around fun game !!
Until it came to Dungeons and Raids, something was lacking. I can't say they were lazy....... Let's just say they assumed players could get together much more naturally than they did. Every game afterward followed this template. Reaching the same conclusion. People frustrated in group content.
Blizzard introduced the Dungeon finder (LFD),
It's a fact, it sounds good on paper. It's a fact, "many love it !!!!"........But it's also a fact, "many hate it !!!!".
Either way, it had a major impact on the community. Love it, hate it, It just did. All other game followed. So where are we now ?....Every game has the same exact problem. Were divided in this matter in EVERY GAME.
All this is nothing new, we all know this.
All this could have been avoided with a WELL THOUGHT OUT SOCIAL PANEL !
Something for the aggressive, shy, and novice, something for everyone. I guess it's too late
Until it came to Dungeons and Raids, something was lacking. I can't say they were lazy....... Let's just say they assumed players could get together much more naturally than they did. Every game afterward followed this template. Reaching the same conclusion. People frustrated in group content.
Blizzard introduced the Dungeon finder (LFD),
It's a fact, it sounds good on paper. It's a fact, "many love it !!!!"........But it's also a fact, "many hate it !!!!".
Either way, it had a major impact on the community. Love it, hate it, It just did. All other game followed. So where are we now ?....Every game has the same exact problem. Were divided in this matter in EVERY GAME.
All this is nothing new, we all know this.
All this could have been avoided with a WELL THOUGHT OUT SOCIAL PANEL !
Something for the aggressive, shy, and novice, something for everyone. I guess it's too late
Comments
In reality it never made sense to have raids included in the story portion of the game that only a handful of the playerbase would ever get to experience. If the raids only dropped gear and didn't have story mixed into them then fine let the elite few have at it. LFR was one of the best things that it allows the entire playerbase to see what the devs created and the story, without giving the same reward as those that wish to do it the old way. The idea that only those that put their entire lives into the game deserve to see any portion of a game is just ludicrous and shows the mentality of an elitist or elitism which is the worse part of gaming in my book. You can be social in games without raiding, no game actual needs raiding at all for social aspects so just throw that out the window. The looking for group tools in general didn't destroy anything other than people spamming chat channels over and over and getting put in my block group for spam.
What destroys instances and raiding is the AOE everything down mentality where mechanics don't matter at all. When they stopped making players have to use stuns, traps, sleeps ect to even do trash the games instances and raiding became boring. Today it is just run in group the entire instance up in one group and kill them. Hell the tanks don't normally have to stop or need a single heal in most instances. Even in raids the trash are crap now as it is just group them up. Gone are the days where you had to coordinate and take on mobs one at a time with two almost killing you. So you want to find something to gripe about when it comes to instances and raids there it is in a nut shell.
Elitism is the worse part of gaming, and most of the people that think they are the elite are normally the worst players in the game.
I would like to say your right !!!!
50% of players think so
50% don't
This is what the LFG, LFD, and LFR did.
I'm saying it would be better if were all 100 %
50% right
50% wrong
I'll not take a side
What I'm saying is theirs another solution where we could have all been 100%
It wasn't a 50/50 split between those who preferred with or without the tools to make it convenient. It was maybe a few percent if that who preferred grouping without auto-grouping tools, with the rest of the playerbase split (not necessarily evenly) between those who preferred grouping with the tools and those who didn't care about grouping tools because they wouldn't group regardless.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Lack of communication and faceroll AOE are different issues unrelated to how groups are formed.
Those who stayed unemployed or who are now retired still live in these so called "glory days."
Somehow Black Sabbath will always be the only greatest band ever.
Oh, look RL responsibilities plus games offering convenience. What a fucking concept!
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I think this is the first time I actually kind of understand what you're saying. When I raided, it was always with a dedicated guild (even after LFD/LFR was introduced). Whatever MMO I end up playing next, I will continue to avoid these features. The only time I used it in WoW was when I had a boss or two that I missed for whatever reason and really wanted to get that kill in before the reset.
I have a lot more fun playing with a regular group of people that I can get to know. I don't mind sitting around for an hour, bullshitting with guildies waiting for the healer to get off work and log on. The social aspects were 75% of the fun factor for me.
I don't expect LFD/LFR to go away because it appeals to casual players and it really is convenient. No one said you had to use it though. Join a good guild and run exclusively with them. It's that simple.
LFG ruined the social aspect of the game especially when everyone you group with is a random you most likely will never see again. Much better with people who you have gamed with over a long period in the past or have met in game that you know isn't an idiot.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
However, I do wonder how a "well thought out social panel" that would replace the need for a LFG function wouldn't just be a different take on the LFG panel itself.
I'd need to see it logically explained, and understand how it would actually constitute a meaningful improvement, before buying into it myself.
Since LFG/LFD/LFR was introduced, I haven't made a single worthwhile connection with another player.
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First, Their is a workable social panel in every mmorpg...... It was actually a good one, however it needed even more improvements. In fact most mmorpg's had the same.
I'll have to say this three times, because no one ever seems to understand:
People don't read rolling chat advertisements !
People don't read rolling chat advertisements !
People don't read rolling chat advertisements !
I proved this at least 1,000 times. I've spamed rolling chat, and yield nothing EVER, but the same people would respond positive when asked individually. I'm sorry if you find this irritating just trying to help.
I've actually helped others way above/below my level find others, by explaining the social panel when I see them spamming chat for hours !
I've helped others fill groups that I'm not even part of !
Current Social panel :
Never advertised and almost hidden, it "worked well" but it involved extra work by the player, an explanation of how to use it, and it involved spamming players.
Social tab > Who
Problem is when you clicked on it, it was blank, however in the bottom you were able to type in almost anything to find.
Examples; 10-20 Priest Mage Guild Names, it would list every player currently playing. Their was a tab on top allowing you to separate by class, level, and more.
Downside:
The player would have to spam others and ask...many don't feel comfortable.
Very few knew about this.
Well thought out Social panel:
Option one
1) List every dungeon, under a dungeon tab,
2) cue for dungeon to add you name, willing to go
3) players can use this information to make groups
4) spam players from this list
Option two
Individual message boards, that everyone could read your intentions.
Option three
Developers decide, many variables to this, after all it's their game !
Player Expectations
Look at your standard themepark. It's nearly 100% solo until endgame. So, right from the start, your players are not expecting to be social, the game is conditioning everyone to be able to do everything solo. Then when the playerbase does encounter something that needs a group, they don't really know how to deal with it. They're not used to asking for help from others (manually forming a group) and they probably don't know their roles either, so group content becomes an insurmountable barrier. A lot of people quit or reroll when they hit these barriers.
Poor Game Design
I always come back to it, but vertical progression and linear stories are a killer. Both serve to segregate the community into tiny chunks, making finding the appropriate people to group up with even harder. The only time it becomes easier is if you're leveling up "with the pack" or you've reached endgame.
I mean, just think about it. 10,000 people on your server, 2,000 online when you are, spread out over 50 levels. 1000 are at endgame, so you only have 1000 spread over 49 levels. So, there may only be 20-30 people in the right level/power range as you, but only 10 who want to group up, only 5 of the right classes, but actually only 2 have the time to see it through......
It sucks. It's a flaw in almost all MMOs. It is why leveling content has become almost entirely solo, because the rest of the game's design makes it so hard to find groups that putting in group content becomes a barrier that causes people to quit.
So, group finder tools are the answer. With just a couple of clicks, you can join a queue for content you want to do and then sit back and hope for the best. There is no better solution without dramatically changing the design of the game and such a dramatic change is not something you can really do with a live game, it would be a massive bait-and-switch to those who enjoy it already. You need to design your MMO from the ground up to be much more social and supportive of multiplayer features.
I would like to say something about Poor Game Design,
Vertical progression isn't too bad, however fast leveling is. Games are made much much smaller, in order to achieve this you spend less time leveling.
Example:
Two quest per level now
Remember when it was two days ?
Five levels took three weeks ?
You could make a lot more friends if everyone leveled slower.
(Side note) You out level crafting making it worthless.
100% solo is a different issue, I agree with everything you say, we can go on and on about this topic too !
You don't loose 50% your customer's because an automobile manufacture decides to install a faulty water pump in their vehicles........ You fix the water pump and have 100% of your customer's !!!!!
LFG divided many mmorpg players..... It needs to be fixed !