Really good to see such a diverse audience being reached here. I do completely understand that watching verse playing an MMO are very different. So a lot of the feedback is expected in my book . I think of it like Golf or Baseball. I see the beauty in the game others don't cause I know what I'm looking for, what small details I need to focus on, and just how hard it is to make those "routine" plays look routine.
Overall here are a couple pieces that I love Pantheon is doing.
1. Trying to create a game, world, and online environment that encourages positive social interaction to be successful.
2. Trying to bring that same type of game/play style that caused me to fall in love with MMO's and Online Gaming in the first place. Yet still adding a little twist to it when able as well to bring it to the modern age.
On top of this I wanted to respond to a few common comments as well to see if my 2 cents can help shed light on things.
1. "Looks just like EQ." - This is true. In Pantheon's (Pre-alpha) core current state the classes, and play style resemble EQ a lot. However a few items to add. This is just the foundation. Things such as Climate and Atmosphere System are not being shown, More dispositions and Enhanced AI will be added, Preception system triggers, and other things that add flavor to the experience and make it new.
2. "Combat is boring and game pace is slow." - Again baseball and golf. Yes I agree its not boxing, but if you know what the end goal is and how challenging the content is it can be much more exciting to watch. As for the slow part. This is what happens when Death truly hurts. Corpse runs where some of the best and worst memories I had in EQ. These memories and this fear of dieing made the game a lot more enjoyable, but also made me a much more cautious player. The result was I as a player took things slower and safer to bring down the Risk as much as possible.
3. "Not enough challenge." - Feedback I'm giving myself while watching! We know the game is currently being tuned and tested repeatedly. So for me I'd also like to see the challenge in the fights turned up a bit. However again, there are many factors not in the game yet. Many fights, spells, abilities, and such haven't been given that final tune yet so a lot of things come into mind as what could be done to increase the difficulty a little. Side note on top of all this is a lot of times people forget the level ranges of content seen just in this short video or stream alone. 2-3 levels is a big deal from what I see and that is important to factor in.
I have so much more to say, but I'll stop here as hopefully people see a little of what I see from this post. Thanks all for the feedback and look forward to reading more!
Edit: Sorry for those who didn't take kindly to my post. Not trying to talk anyone into Pantheon, but just share a little more to the story from my own opinion. Thanks again for the stream Hive. Loved it and look forward to seeing more in the future!
What is the definition of "camping"? How long in time? When some here talk about hours, what are you doing other than talking with one another? Longest I would bother with "camping" would be an hour. Also, is "camping" alot of what you do in "Old School"? Well to each their own, me, don't think so.
A lot of a stream for a game like this is going to be in the presentation and to me it seems it was a little dry on the commentating. Game looks fine !for me! I honestly look at some of the comments and cant help but think. Yeah but if this game changed to what you want it to be, then what is setting it apart from ANY of the games that have launched and failed with the except of.. 3?
Also one of the other streams they mentioned the dungeons are designed for short bursts(2 hours or so) not 8 hour grinds so that takes out a bunch of the whining right there. If your not a fan of this type of combat that's a different issue and obviously your not going to like it regardless of how flashy it was.
As far as someone mentioning previous supports are fading away from pantheon, I'm not seeing it at all. The only thing I'm nervous about is the typical crap.. bugs, stability and what not. To be honest the last time we saw Brad was with VG and it was one of the worst(not the worst that goes to Horizons) launches and ultimately caused the game to die. So as a supporter(not a backer) this is the only worry I have. We all know(devs admitted) this isn't aimed to be a wildly popular game, its a game with a specific goal in mind and so far its hitting what the devs said it would be. I'm happy with that and look forward to more info.
Still trying to figure out which race is going to be closest like my Barbarian warrior hmm...
What is the definition of "camping"? How long in time? When some here talk about hours, what are you doing other than talking with one another? Longest I would bother with "camping" would be an hour. Also, is "camping" alot of what you do in "Old School"? Well to each their own, me, don't think so.
the point of camps is they offer different things for different people, here are few.
A) a good xp spot and safe place to pull to while group kills away while avoiding roaming mobs/adds
crowed zone were fighting each other for kills made players want to create camps to share mobs. less fighting each other for kills, more killing for xp.
C) rare spawns spawn near X camp you want chance at that item you look for that camp
if you just showed up randomly and said "i only got a hour, am going do whatever i want. " you not get far even if you had 5 friends with you, so camps help keep the peace and share the love.
LackingMMO - Correct. Based off information I have VR is attempting to build the game with 2hour sessions in mind. Camp spots within Raids or Dungeons and such so you can log out after a couple hour push and log back in to maybe push more. They understand not everyone has 8 hours to spend on a game in one day.
Also I agree. Some people will leave, and some will stay. Overall bugs, and stability are the biggest things I'm looking out for come Release. Which is why I love how VR is approaching it by taking time to Optimize throughout Dev. and bringing testers in early to help with bugs. Also leaving a loose timeline to ensure they address these before the big Release day is key to me as well. Really like that about them.
What is the definition of "camping"? How long in time? When some here talk about hours, what are you doing other than talking with one another? Longest I would bother with "camping" would be an hour. Also, is "camping" alot of what you do in "Old School"? Well to each their own, me, don't think so.
Camping is anytime to stop somewhere and pull mobs to you vs go to them. This could be for 15minutes, 1 hour, or 3 hours depending on what you are trying to do. Camping is a big piece of "old school" style game play. Instead of going quest to quest or "running" through a dungeon in 15 minutes you would setup camp in a Dungeon, grind out some levels, gear, and money before moving forward. With Death having meaning this is something where you tend not to move too fast as you want to feel your way through and with caution.
Also camping isn't always as safe as one would think roaming mobs, respawns on pulls, and mob AI such as an alarmist could really make or break a pull even while camping a location.
If nothing else Pantheon will have 19+ years of EQ to observe and draw upon...They can take the best parts of it and leave behind the not so desireable.
1. "Looks just like EQ." - This is true. In Pantheon's (Pre-alpha) core current state the classes, and play style resemble EQ a lot. However a few items to add. This is just the foundation. Things such as Climate and Atmosphere System are not being shown, More dispositions and Enhanced AI will be added, Preception system triggers, and other things that add flavor to the experience and make it new.
Let me focus a bit on this one comment.
Yes, it looks a lot like EQ1 (and EQ2, also). A group of 6 fighting one mob at a time, with specialist keeping it a 6-on-1 fight, and healing people. That's not new. When exactly are these other systems, which you insist will "add flavor to the experience and make it new" going to happen in the development time frame? Alpha (proper)? Beta? Are there specific changes to this 6-1 combat that you're aware of?
The current state is pre-alpha, and not all classes or races have been shown yet. I expect these to take up the majority of pre-alpha development time, as well as creation of new areas. Do you expect that the 6-on-1 fighting mechanism is going to change somewhere in the interim before alpha (proper) launches?
I'd really like to know, because I'd like to be involved with a game that isn't trying to drag me back to 1999. It was a bad year; I have no desire to relive that again. Nothing that I've seen (or read) about the Climate/Atmosphere/Perception systems appear to do anything to change this basic formula. (Climate/Atmosphere both appear to be gates, requiring specialized 'buffing gear' to pass, and Perception seems to be an individual, not group thing to inject Quests into the world). AI could *possibly* change this, by changing the way mobs react to attempts to reduce any combat to the 6-on-1 mechanism from the past.
What exactly is coming that is going to change the basic functions of what we have seen?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
...if you don't want a game that feels and plays like 1999 then Pantheon isn't for you. Period. There's no selling you on it. This is a niche game aimed at people who want to go back to that era of MMOs. Why is anyone arguing about this? If you want an MMO with all the quirks and pros and cons of 1999, then stick around. If not, look elsewhere. Not every game has to be for everyone.
Some said they enjoyed watching it... some said they find it boring. This is all fine, especially for a game that is so niche.
And then someone comes along and starts with the typical condescending shit:
...."beating da game" ... mad rush to end cap ... the hyperactive types ... .... just to brag for five minutes ... onto the next shiny ... those with short attention spans.
The clueless arrogance of one fanboi slinging insults at those who don't share his passion should be embarrassing indeed.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Seeing a pre-alpha game with this type of team behind the development gets me excited for Pantheon. I hope the leaders of the design stick with their initial gut and don't succumb to others wanting this game to be another WoW.
I do miss the late night corpse runs and getting help from a higher level to get the corpse after wiping. That's how relationships in games are established, that's where reputation matters, it's the interaction and working together towards a common goal that gave us a sense of accomplishment. Not the hardcore raids spending 4-8 hours causing burn out over time.
I'm excited to see faction, and if it's like the early mmorpg and d&d it will really mean something.
The more enjoyable our relationships with the group and experiences we get to share is what's going to make this game thrive.
It's a game where community can make or break it. If I can consistently find a good group of folks to dungeon-crawl with, I can see myself enjoying this long-term.
If the population or comminity is lacking, the allure of the game will fall apart.
EDIT- I hope they tread a fine line with interdependence. My ideal is that content can be done without ALL roles present, but that all roles being available to the group presents a way to increase the rewards over the same amount of time played. Encourage it, but don't hamstring a group for missing one role.
1. "Looks just like EQ." - This is true. In Pantheon's (Pre-alpha) core current state the classes, and play style resemble EQ a lot. However a few items to add. This is just the foundation. Things such as Climate and Atmosphere System are not being shown, More dispositions and Enhanced AI will be added, Preception system triggers, and other things that add flavor to the experience and make it new.
Let me focus a bit on this one comment.
Yes, it looks a lot like EQ1 (and EQ2, also). A group of 6 fighting one mob at a time, with specialist keeping it a 6-on-1 fight, and healing people. That's not new. When exactly are these other systems, which you insist will "add flavor to the experience and make it new" going to happen in the development time frame? Alpha (proper)? Beta? Are there specific changes to this 6-1 combat that you're aware of?
The current state is pre-alpha, and not all classes or races have been shown yet. I expect these to take up the majority of pre-alpha development time, as well as creation of new areas. Do you expect that the 6-on-1 fighting mechanism is going to change somewhere in the interim before alpha (proper) launches?
I'd really like to know, because I'd like to be involved with a game that isn't trying to drag me back to 1999. It was a bad year; I have no desire to relive that again. Nothing that I've seen (or read) about the Climate/Atmosphere/Perception systems appear to do anything to change this basic formula. (Climate/Atmosphere both appear to be gates, requiring specialized 'buffing gear' to pass, and Perception seems to be an individual, not group thing to inject Quests into the world). AI could *possibly* change this, by changing the way mobs react to attempts to reduce any combat to the 6-on-1 mechanism from the past.
What exactly is coming that is going to change the basic functions of what we have seen?
Sorry didn't mean to come off as they were trying to change the basic formula. I mean the basic formula is going to be built onto with the other systems to give a slightly newer take on a classic game style. I apologize if that came out wrong. Not for everyone and I get it. Just wanted to share what I look forward too and some additional information for the game.
I think what kills so many MMO’s these days is just how long it takes for them to come out. We tend to start hearing about them and seeing them, the hype machine starts going years before even a public beta. By the time a lot of games come out it’s hard to be that excited anymore. Pantheon seems to look good for what the devs are trying to make, but it seems like a niche game that is still a couple years away...
PS - I'll try to answer some more questions directly as well. Ask away!
Who are you? Why should I ask you questions?
No one, and just thought I'd be friendly. Sorry for the offer.
No reason to be sorry. Just strange that a random guy pops in and without any background or context wants us to ask him questions. Thought perhaps you were a developer or someone on the team.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm looking forward to being part of a community again, where people actually talk...use strategy and thinking..instead of rushing through everything because they think they are "beating da game". What they don't realize in their mad rush to end cap is that they have missed 90% of what the game is all about. So why do Devs put all that hard work into building game worlds, if the hyperactive types want to rush past it all just to brag for five minutes they hit level cap, then quit the game to go onto the next shiny? There are lots of games out there that cater to those with short attention spans. Pantheon will be different.
The way playerbase played in 1999-2003 is dead and gone.
I played EQ1 in a top raiding guild for 7 years, I started in March of 1999 at launch.
Talking back in the day - text, chat - talking today - discord - top guilds even from back in the day have all abandoned in-game chat
Rushing to the end game is going to happen in Pantheon - that's what my guild is INTENDING to do - because we all know the mechanics of how Pantheon works - it's 90% the same mechanics of EQ1 so we know that
1. Get to max level ASAP is important because levels = power
2. Unless gear is end game gear - don't waste any time obtaining it, use gear that is sufficient enough to get you to max level
3. The first guilds to get to end game will profit off mechanics that developer has not intended nor forseen - these get patched and players who come after will experience a nerfed version, so it pays huge to be in the first wave.
4. Use alphas/betas as ways of learning the optimal way to min/max - this is what will enable top guilds to outlevel and outgear the masses 10x-20x faster
Again you overestimate how guilds play today - strategy and thinking - lol - when you know the mechanics, have pre-assigned classes and group roles and members who already knwo the game from alpha/beta as well as members that have played EQ1 for many years ... come on.
Players today are not EQ1 noobs anymore
P.S. - obviously not all guilds in Pantheon will be ultra-competitive end-game guilds, so players that want to take it slow and casual - I am sure that will exist as well
You're right, players today are not EQ1 noobs, they're just more asshole like with zero respect for others and are extremely self centered. That's a major issue with today's MMO generation. All about me. If you do not think so, than we can agree to disagree.
It's a little early to be speculating that the game is "90% the same as EQ". We have no idea what the game holds. Only what we've seen in videos and things will change in some shape or form, and/or improve.
I used to be one of those individuals that would rush to max level and all it did was make me realize how much of the game I actually missed. Yes, levels do = power but when you rush, you get burnt out and get to the top only to realize the top is a very small percentage of the game you're playing and what's that result in? Players bitching that there's no content, blah blah blah. Its the PLAYERS fault if that ends up happening and I know this because I've taken part in it.
Comments
Player A: "Thanks! There are nearly no games like this for us to play! WooOooOo!"
Player B: "Bullshit! Make it just like the other 90% of games designed for people like me! You're Bullshit too Player A!"
Good thread guys. Productive as ever.
You stay sassy!
Overall here are a couple pieces that I love Pantheon is doing.
1. Trying to create a game, world, and online environment that encourages positive social interaction to be successful.
2. Trying to bring that same type of game/play style that caused me to fall in love with MMO's and Online Gaming in the first place. Yet still adding a little twist to it when able as well to bring it to the modern age.
On top of this I wanted to respond to a few common comments as well to see if my 2 cents can help shed light on things.
1. "Looks just like EQ." - This is true. In Pantheon's (Pre-alpha) core current state the classes, and play style resemble EQ a lot. However a few items to add. This is just the foundation. Things such as Climate and Atmosphere System are not being shown, More dispositions and Enhanced AI will be added, Preception system triggers, and other things that add flavor to the experience and make it new.
2. "Combat is boring and game pace is slow." - Again baseball and golf. Yes I agree its not boxing, but if you know what the end goal is and how challenging the content is it can be much more exciting to watch. As for the slow part. This is what happens when Death truly hurts. Corpse runs where some of the best and worst memories I had in EQ. These memories and this fear of dieing made the game a lot more enjoyable, but also made me a much more cautious player. The result was I as a player took things slower and safer to bring down the Risk as much as possible.
3. "Not enough challenge." - Feedback I'm giving myself while watching! We know the game is currently being tuned and tested repeatedly. So for me I'd also like to see the challenge in the fights turned up a bit. However again, there are many factors not in the game yet. Many fights, spells, abilities, and such haven't been given that final tune yet so a lot of things come into mind as what could be done to increase the difficulty a little. Side note on top of all this is a lot of times people forget the level ranges of content seen just in this short video or stream alone. 2-3 levels is a big deal from what I see and that is important to factor in.
I have so much more to say, but I'll stop here as hopefully people see a little of what I see from this post. Thanks all for the feedback and look forward to reading more!
Edit: Sorry for those who didn't take kindly to my post. Not trying to talk anyone into Pantheon, but just share a little more to the story from my own opinion. Thanks again for the stream Hive. Loved it and look forward to seeing more in the future!
Also one of the other streams they mentioned the dungeons are designed for short bursts(2 hours or so) not 8 hour grinds so that takes out a bunch of the whining right there. If your not a fan of this type of combat that's a different issue and obviously your not going to like it regardless of how flashy it was.
As far as someone mentioning previous supports are fading away from pantheon, I'm not seeing it at all. The only thing I'm nervous about is the typical crap.. bugs, stability and what not. To be honest the last time we saw Brad was with VG and it was one of the worst(not the worst that goes to Horizons) launches and ultimately caused the game to die. So as a supporter(not a backer) this is the only worry I have. We all know(devs admitted) this isn't aimed to be a wildly popular game, its a game with a specific goal in mind and so far its hitting what the devs said it would be. I'm happy with that and look forward to more info.
Still trying to figure out which race is going to be closest like my Barbarian warrior hmm...
the point of camps is they offer different things for different people, here are few.
A) a good xp spot and safe place to pull to while group kills away while avoiding roaming mobs/adds
C) rare spawns spawn near X camp you want chance at that item you look for that camp
if you just showed up randomly and said "i only got a hour, am going do whatever i want. " you not get far even if you had 5 friends with you, so camps help keep the peace and share the love.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Also I agree. Some people will leave, and some will stay. Overall bugs, and stability are the biggest things I'm looking out for come Release. Which is why I love how VR is approaching it by taking time to Optimize throughout Dev. and bringing testers in early to help with bugs. Also leaving a loose timeline to ensure they address these before the big Release day is key to me as well. Really like that about them.
PS - Ogre look sweet!
Camping is anytime to stop somewhere and pull mobs to you vs go to them. This could be for 15minutes, 1 hour, or 3 hours depending on what you are trying to do. Camping is a big piece of "old school" style game play. Instead of going quest to quest or "running" through a dungeon in 15 minutes you would setup camp in a Dungeon, grind out some levels, gear, and money before moving forward. With Death having meaning this is something where you tend not to move too fast as you want to feel your way through and with caution.
Also camping isn't always as safe as one would think roaming mobs, respawns on pulls, and mob AI such as an alarmist could really make or break a pull even while camping a location.
Yes, it looks a lot like EQ1 (and EQ2, also). A group of 6 fighting one mob at a time, with specialist keeping it a 6-on-1 fight, and healing people. That's not new. When exactly are these other systems, which you insist will "add flavor to the experience and make it new" going to happen in the development time frame? Alpha (proper)? Beta? Are there specific changes to this 6-1 combat that you're aware of?
The current state is pre-alpha, and not all classes or races have been shown yet. I expect these to take up the majority of pre-alpha development time, as well as creation of new areas. Do you expect that the 6-on-1 fighting mechanism is going to change somewhere in the interim before alpha (proper) launches?
I'd really like to know, because I'd like to be involved with a game that isn't trying to drag me back to 1999. It was a bad year; I have no desire to relive that again. Nothing that I've seen (or read) about the Climate/Atmosphere/Perception systems appear to do anything to change this basic formula. (Climate/Atmosphere both appear to be gates, requiring specialized 'buffing gear' to pass, and Perception seems to be an individual, not group thing to inject Quests into the world). AI could *possibly* change this, by changing the way mobs react to attempts to reduce any combat to the 6-on-1 mechanism from the past.
What exactly is coming that is going to change the basic functions of what we have seen?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
This thread is embarrassing.
View more silliness at http://www.youtube.com/thehiveleader
Some said they enjoyed watching it... some said they find it boring. This is all fine, especially for a game that is so niche.
And then someone comes along and starts with the typical condescending shit:
... mad rush to end cap
... the hyperactive types ...
.... just to brag for five minutes
... onto the next shiny
... those with short attention spans.
The clueless arrogance of one fanboi slinging insults at those who don't share his passion should be embarrassing indeed.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I do miss the late night corpse runs and getting help from a higher level to get the corpse after wiping. That's how relationships in games are established, that's where reputation matters, it's the interaction and working together towards a common goal that gave us a sense of accomplishment. Not the hardcore raids spending 4-8 hours causing burn out over time.
I'm excited to see faction, and if it's like the early mmorpg and d&d it will really mean something.
The more enjoyable our relationships with the group and experiences we get to share is what's going to make this game thrive.
If the population or comminity is lacking, the allure of the game will fall apart.
EDIT- I hope they tread a fine line with interdependence. My ideal is that content can be done without ALL roles present, but that all roles being available to the group presents a way to increase the rewards over the same amount of time played. Encourage it, but don't hamstring a group for missing one role.
No one, and just thought I'd be friendly. Sorry for the offer.
Sorry didn't mean to come off as they were trying to change the basic formula. I mean the basic formula is going to be built onto with the other systems to give a slightly newer take on a classic game style. I apologize if that came out wrong. Not for everyone and I get it. Just wanted to share what I look forward too and some additional information for the game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
It's a little early to be speculating that the game is "90% the same as EQ". We have no idea what the game holds. Only what we've seen in videos and things will change in some shape or form, and/or improve.
I used to be one of those individuals that would rush to max level and all it did was make me realize how much of the game I actually missed. Yes, levels do = power but when you rush, you get burnt out and get to the top only to realize the top is a very small percentage of the game you're playing and what's that result in? Players bitching that there's no content, blah blah blah. Its the PLAYERS fault if that ends up happening and I know this because I've taken part in it.