They think they want a clone of those old games with new graphics and animations, but in reality that new instance of the same old crap would be just as bad as it was back then...
How do you know and what makes you think that "one size fits all" as far as your statement.
Sure, there are some people who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. I would also go as far as to say that there are people who say "I want x, y and z" and then when presented with it they say "well, almost, but it has potential".
But there are people who know what they want and would be happy to have it.
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I like playing Chess from time to time. I use to be captain of the chess team in High school. Its it Nostalgia that I love to play a 2 to 3 hour game of chess from time to time? NO. Its just what I like to do. I dont play as much as I use to, though I could see myself being one of those old men sitting in a park at 80 years old playing chess with other old men. Why? Because its something I like
And I'm nostalgic about my own younger self - the one who had time to sit and game binge for an entire weekend, who had the ability to sit and grind mobs at a camp for hours on end without pain, and who could enjoy playing a game with a lot of friends online who could also afford to do the same. I don't feel like I missed out on "real life", even though I chose to spend that time in an online community. Those experiences and friendships are every bit as valid to me. I regret none of it.
And why do you need to rush to finish content in 2 months then be bored for the next 5 months until the next patch comes out? Also how is it someone who worked 60 hours a week, took 8 credit hours of college classes and did 20 hours on top of that of homework a week still managed to raid MC and BWL? Its called time management. O and BTW I was able to run the beach 1 to 2 hours a night during the summer everyday during that time too. Now I didnt have kids then but I still was busy.
People like you cry endlessly about how much effort old games took, yet you still dont seem to ask the simple question. Did you need to rush to end game? NOPE. That shit didnt start until WOW started expansions every 2 years. If they had expansions every 36 months to 40 months you dont need to rush. You can enjoy the journey over 3 years.
As busy as my life is today with kids and a Career I am still very capable of playing older school games. Because I take the long view. No next month I need to clear Mythic raids or else I am not in the top 100 guild. Why is it I still can play a 5 hour chess game once in a while with a friend online. Because I can enjoy life and things at a slower pace, I am not about running around with my hair on fire all the time.
You should re-read what he wrote. Nothing he said indicated anything about him rushing to end game.
Nor did he say anything about being bored.
That seems all you. Pure West!
I read everything he wrote. Rushing to end game is the reason why games today are crap. Its no longer about the journey its about getting to end game and rushing to complete the content.
MMORPGS are nothing more than fast food because people cry about not having time.
But there are people who know what they want and would be happy to have it.
There are people who think they know what they want, but then the product is released, and they don't play it. Happened to several "old school revival" projects already.
Such as? Really good "new" old school projects? Like Shroud of the Avatar? That awesome icon of online gaming? With its "not real world but a large map you walk around in".
Project Gorgon isn't done yet (though I play it) but that might be a contender once it's actually done. Albion is a forced perspective game so we know that will either attract or repel players.
What else?
I think things are a bit more nuanced than that.
In any case, there is a reason I gave money to Pantheon.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I like playing Chess from time to time. I use to be captain of the chess team in High school. Its it Nostalgia that I love to play a 2 to 3 hour game of chess from time to time? NO. Its just what I like to do. I dont play as much as I use to, though I could see myself being one of those old men sitting in a park at 80 years old playing chess with other old men. Why? Because its something I like
And I'm nostalgic about my own younger self - the one who had time to sit and game binge for an entire weekend, who had the ability to sit and grind mobs at a camp for hours on end without pain, and who could enjoy playing a game with a lot of friends online who could also afford to do the same. I don't feel like I missed out on "real life", even though I chose to spend that time in an online community. Those experiences and friendships are every bit as valid to me. I regret none of it.
And why do you need to rush to finish content in 2 months then be bored for the next 5 months until the next patch comes out? Also how is it someone who worked 60 hours a week, took 8 credit hours of college classes and did 20 hours on top of that of homework a week still managed to raid MC and BWL? Its called time management. O and BTW I was able to run the beach 1 to 2 hours a night during the summer everyday during that time too. Now I didnt have kids then but I still was busy.
People like you cry endlessly about how much effort old games took, yet you still dont seem to ask the simple question. Did you need to rush to end game? NOPE. That shit didnt start until WOW started expansions every 2 years. If they had expansions every 36 months to 40 months you dont need to rush. You can enjoy the journey over 3 years.
As busy as my life is today with kids and a Career I am still very capable of playing older school games. Because I take the long view. No next month I need to clear Mythic raids or else I am not in the top 100 guild. Why is it I still can play a 5 hour chess game once in a while with a friend online. Because I can enjoy life and things at a slower pace, I am not about running around with my hair on fire all the time.
You should re-read what he wrote. Nothing he said indicated anything about him rushing to end game.
Nor did he say anything about being bored.
That seems all you. Pure West!
I read everything he wrote. Rushing to end game is the reason why games today are crap. Its no longer about the journey its about getting to end game and rushing to complete the content.
MMORPGS are nothing more than fast food because people cry about not having time.
That's opinion though.
MMORPG's have always been a "rush" to end game. In oldschool games you had a level (be it skill level, character level whatever kind), you wanted to grow that level, and thus you are rushing to get it higher. You aren't sitting back and just enjoying the game. You were progressing towards something. When I played L2, back when it was hard to level, everyone was always grinding the most efficient way to level quicker. In EQ people were always camping zones that gave the most EXP for a group. Same with FFXI. I never went to areas that weren't efficient, because nobody else ever wanted to.
Just because it took longer doesn't mean the journey was any different. Sure it may have been more atmospheric, or newer feeling at the time. Usually the games had a lot of things you could do to progress, but there was always the most efficient way, that 90% of people did.
People didn't raid or do PvP in the old MMORPG's from the start. They are generally at the end of the leveling, even in older games.
I like playing Chess from time to time. I use to be captain of the chess team in High school. Its it Nostalgia that I love to play a 2 to 3 hour game of chess from time to time? NO. Its just what I like to do. I dont play as much as I use to, though I could see myself being one of those old men sitting in a park at 80 years old playing chess with other old men. Why? Because its something I like
And I'm nostalgic about my own younger self - the one who had time to sit and game binge for an entire weekend, who had the ability to sit and grind mobs at a camp for hours on end without pain, and who could enjoy playing a game with a lot of friends online who could also afford to do the same. I don't feel like I missed out on "real life", even though I chose to spend that time in an online community. Those experiences and friendships are every bit as valid to me. I regret none of it.
And why do you need to rush to finish content in 2 months then be bored for the next 5 months until the next patch comes out? Also how is it someone who worked 60 hours a week, took 8 credit hours of college classes and did 20 hours on top of that of homework a week still managed to raid MC and BWL? Its called time management. O and BTW I was able to run the beach 1 to 2 hours a night during the summer everyday during that time too. Now I didnt have kids then but I still was busy.
People like you cry endlessly about how much effort old games took, yet you still dont seem to ask the simple question. Did you need to rush to end game? NOPE. That shit didnt start until WOW started expansions every 2 years. If they had expansions every 36 months to 40 months you dont need to rush. You can enjoy the journey over 3 years.
As busy as my life is today with kids and a Career I am still very capable of playing older school games. Because I take the long view. No next month I need to clear Mythic raids or else I am not in the top 100 guild. Why is it I still can play a 5 hour chess game once in a while with a friend online. Because I can enjoy life and things at a slower pace, I am not about running around with my hair on fire all the time.
You should re-read what he wrote. Nothing he said indicated anything about him rushing to end game.
Nor did he say anything about being bored.
That seems all you. Pure West!
I read everything he wrote. Rushing to end game is the reason why games today are crap. Its no longer about the journey its about getting to end game and rushing to complete the content.
MMORPGS are nothing more than fast food because people cry about not having time.
ok but "he" didn't. All he said is he had binge sessions. I seem to remember having many binge sessions in many types of games. Had nothing to do with rushing and everything to do with "omg this is so great I'm having so much fun".
At least that's from the post you quoted.
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I know this may sound crazy but if people enjoyed playing a game years ago and still enjoy playing it today, they might just enjoy playing the game. No nostalgia needed.
But many just don't. The game is still there, but they don't play it. Go figure.
C'mon Jean, you know better. Saying DAoC is still there today and fans of vanilla should just go play is being disingenuous. Those games are far different today than they were then.
Look at how much ESO had changed in just the small time it's been released. Now add a decade plus of that.
Then tell me how all attempts to restore the "good old past", when we were "climbing up the hill in the Blizzard", have only ghost populations?
Fact is, those people don't know what they really want. They look at past games through some nostalgia glasses indeed (the OP's nostalgia stops at WoW though), but when presented a restoration of those games, they still don't play it.
They think they want a clone of those old games with new graphics and animations, but in reality that new instance of the same old crap would be just as bad as it was back then...
Which ones, exactly? The private, illegal servers?
How many new attempts have we seen in that realm? I would submit the analogy of the cRPG rennassaince. Pillars of Eternity was a resounding success, as was the Wasteland reboot. Both are moving towards sequels. Neither would be considered in step with modern RPGs. Do we tell folks who enjoy PoE and Wasteland 2 that they're merely enjoying nostalgia, and it will wear off?
I know this may sound crazy but if people enjoyed playing a game years ago and still enjoy playing it today, they might just enjoy playing the game. No nostalgia needed.
But many just don't. The game is still there, but they don't play it. Go figure.
C'mon Jean, you know better. Saying DAoC is still there today and fans of vanilla should just go play is being disingenuous. Those games are far different today than they were then.
Look at how much ESO had changed in just the small time it's been released. Now add a decade plus of that.
Then tell me how all attempts to restore the "good old past", when we were "climbing up the hill in the Blizzard", have only ghost populations?
Fact is, those people don't know what they really want. They look at past games through some nostalgia glasses indeed (the OP's nostalgia stops at WoW though), but when presented a restoration of those games, they still don't play it.
They think they want a clone of those old games with new graphics and animations, but in reality that new instance of the same old crap would be just as bad as it was back then...
Which ones, exactly? The private, illegal servers?
How many new attempts have we seen in that realm? I would submit the analogy of the cRPG rennassaince. Pillars of Eternity was a resounding success, as was the Wasteland reboot. Both are moving towards sequels. Neither would be considered in step with modern RPGs. Do we tell folks who enjoy PoE and Wasteland 2 that they're merely enjoying nostalgia, and it will wear off?
omg this!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The more I think about it the more i think that douche from Blizzard was right when he said "You think you do, but you don't" in regards to players wanting classic. Nostalgia is a funny thing, When you try to go back and relive it , It NEVER LIVES UP TO EXPECTATIONS or memory's.
I know this may sound crazy but if people enjoyed playing a game years ago and still enjoy playing it today, they might just enjoy playing the game. No nostalgia needed.
But many just don't. The game is still there, but they don't play it. Go figure.
C'mon Jean, you know better. Saying DAoC is still there today and fans of vanilla should just go play is being disingenuous. Those games are far different today than they were then.
Look at how much ESO had changed in just the small time it's been released. Now add a decade plus of that.
Then tell me how all attempts to restore the "good old past", when we were "climbing up the hill in the Blizzard", have only ghost populations?
Fact is, those people don't know what they really want. They look at past games through some nostalgia glasses indeed (the OP's nostalgia stops at WoW though), but when presented a restoration of those games, they still don't play it.
They think they want a clone of those old games with new graphics and animations, but in reality that new instance of the same old crap would be just as bad as it was back then...
Thank you for telling me what I want. There isn't enough of that on the internet.
For the record, the top 3 games on my steam account, with most played time in the past two years, are:
Pillars of Eternity Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition Divinity: Original Sin 2
I get it. Some of you can't understand the appeal of older games. You hate them, or at least dislike them, and that makes it difficult for you to see any of the appeal. So you feel the need to be dismissive of it entirely by saying it's simply nostalgia.
It's not. I enjoy some older games more than current ones. Stop attempting to dismiss my gaming tastes simply because you don't understand them.
I know this may sound crazy but if people enjoyed playing a game years ago and still enjoy playing it today, they might just enjoy playing the game. No nostalgia needed.
But many just don't. The game is still there, but they don't play it. Go figure.
C'mon Jean, you know better. Saying DAoC is still there today and fans of vanilla should just go play is being disingenuous. Those games are far different today than they were then.
Look at how much ESO had changed in just the small time it's been released. Now add a decade plus of that.
Then tell me how all attempts to restore the "good old past", when we were "climbing up the hill in the Blizzard", have only ghost populations?
Fact is, those people don't know what they really want. They look at past games through some nostalgia glasses indeed (the OP's nostalgia stops at WoW though), but when presented a restoration of those games, they still don't play it.
They think they want a clone of those old games with new graphics and animations, but in reality that new instance of the same old crap would be just as bad as it was back then...
Which ones, exactly? The private, illegal servers?
How many new attempts have we seen in that realm? I would submit the analogy of the cRPG rennassaince. Pillars of Eternity was a resounding success, as was the Wasteland reboot. Both are moving towards sequels. Neither would be considered in step with modern RPGs. Do we tell folks who enjoy PoE and Wasteland 2 that they're merely enjoying nostalgia, and it will wear off?
And you really think Pillars of Eternity are a copy of an old school game, just like it was before?
Please...
No, but that's the point. It's akin to telling those folks before those games released they should just go play Baldur's Gate. It was old school design philosophy married beautifully with new design techniques with regards to UI and how the information is presented to the player so it's clear and easy to understand. Things like a comparison tool, stat pages that calculate crit chance, and so on. That's the new stuff that helps me understand the effects stats have on my character, married with old school design like real time tactical party controls with multiple defense types, numerous attack types, and an incredibly deep and flexible character builder. Coupled with an amazing story and lore design, and it's an incredible "old school" experience.
That's what I think of when I think of an excellent "old school" title.
In any case, there is a reason I gave money to Pantheon.
The guy doing Pantheon already failed one attempt to create an EQ successor... let's see how fast he fails the second one, or if he actually learned something and will make the changes needed for it not to be a failure, which I doubt... changes which will of course mean bringing the game closer to modern MMORPGs.
As I said above, I played and subscribed to Vanguard.
So, for me, he did not fail. I paid for that entertainment and was happy to do it.
And I think that's the crux of this whole argument. You and yours just can't understand why other people are doing things and therefore it's obvious that they are flawed.
Also, remember, Vanguard released in a horrid state and never really was in an "amazing state" thereafter.
If you are going to point to why a game failed you have to actually point to why it failed.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I know this may sound crazy but if people enjoyed playing a game years ago and still enjoy playing it today, they might just enjoy playing the game. No nostalgia needed.
But many just don't. The game is still there, but they don't play it. Go figure.
C'mon Jean, you know better. Saying DAoC is still there today and fans of vanilla should just go play is being disingenuous. Those games are far different today than they were then.
Look at how much ESO had changed in just the small time it's been released. Now add a decade plus of that.
Then tell me how all attempts to restore the "good old past", when we were "climbing up the hill in the Blizzard", have only ghost populations?
Fact is, those people don't know what they really want. They look at past games through some nostalgia glasses indeed (the OP's nostalgia stops at WoW though), but when presented a restoration of those games, they still don't play it.
They think they want a clone of those old games with new graphics and animations, but in reality that new instance of the same old crap would be just as bad as it was back then...
Which ones, exactly? The private, illegal servers?
How many new attempts have we seen in that realm? I would submit the analogy of the cRPG rennassaince. Pillars of Eternity was a resounding success, as was the Wasteland reboot. Both are moving towards sequels. Neither would be considered in step with modern RPGs. Do we tell folks who enjoy PoE and Wasteland 2 that they're merely enjoying nostalgia, and it will wear off?
And you really think Pillars of Eternity are a copy of an old school game, just like it was before?
Please...
No, but that's the point. It's akin to telling those folks before those games released they should just go play Baldur's Gate. It was old school design philosophy married beautifully with new design techniques with regards to UI and how the information is presented to the player so it's clear and easy to understand. Things like a comparison tool, stat pages that calculate crit chance, and so on. That's the new stuff that helps me understand the effects stats have on my character, married with old school design like real time tactical party controls with multiple defense types, numerous attack types, and an incredibly deep and flexible character builder. Coupled with an amazing story and lore design, and it's an incredible "old school" experience.
That's what I think of when I think of an excellent "old school" title.
So it's NOT "old school". It's not "climb the mountain in the Blizzard with only a string and a pair of sock". Its some aspects that have always existed in a MMORPG along with a bunch of quality of life features and technical improvements.
That's what I'm talking about. You guys (and myself) do NOT want true "old school climb the mountain... etc..." crap.
Right, I don't want old school tech or UI, I want old school design philosophies supported by the things devs have learned over the years in terms of informing the player about the underlying systems so they can pick it up and enjoy the depth.
Things like UI and tech improvements don't disqualify or preclude design philosophies like multiple types of defense, utility roles for each group member that adds value and variety to how you can approach tasks, and large amounts of world interactivity, such as locks, booby-trapped locks, regular traps, alarms, scavenging staches, hidden caves that need special equipment or skills to access, and so on.
These things add depth I find enjoyable, specifically when they can add value to the idea of forming communities and groups that work together to tackle the challenges.
I know this may sound crazy but if people enjoyed playing a game years ago and still enjoy playing it today, they might just enjoy playing the game. No nostalgia needed.
But many just don't. The game is still there, but they don't play it. Go figure.
That's a gross over-simplification.
A game may still be around today, but it may be very different from what someone enjoyed "back then".
Your remark is still kind of in the same vein as people who say "people have been clamoring for a true open-world PvP MMO with full loot, but then why aren't all these people playing "-insert MMO title here-"? It must mean that gamestyle isn't really isn't what people want!". It's a very lazy argument. Just because something fits a description, doesn't mean it does it *well*.
It would be like saying "you've been wanting a steakhouse in the area for years, but now that there is one, you're not going! It must mean you don't really like steak!". In fact, what it means is "I like steak, but the restaurant in question serves poor quality food".
Using myself as an example...
I played FFXI religiously for almost 9 years. Had no plans of ever stopping 'til they took the servers down.
Then they introduced Abyssea, which DRASTICALLY changed the game, and the way people approached it, into something I no longer enjoyed.
If they hadn't changed it the way they did, I'd still be playing and paying a sub.
Same with Lineage 2. Played that for about 4 years and intended to continue.. then Goddess of Destruction blew all that away, and L2 was no longer the game I enjoyed. So I stopped.
Nostalgia didn't keep me playing FFXI for 9 years. It didn't keep me playing L2 for 4. A genuine enjoyment of the game *as it was* is what kept me there. Each game is no longer what I enjoyed, so I have no desire to go back... except, of course, for the nostalgia of running around in Vana'diel or Aden... but that's fleeting.
And why do you need to rush to finish content in 2 months then be bored for the next 5 months until the next patch comes out?
1. Because endgame content is generally better balanced and offers a bit more of a challenge than level grinding. I like my games to challenge me.
2. Because I enjoy PvP, and PvP is often only enjoyable on a max level character with twinked gear if you want to be more than a chewtoy for others who have that.
3. Because my friends are at endgame and I want to play with my friends.
That is why I rush endgame in any and every MMO I play. Because collecting rat tails reflavored 100 different ways isn't true content. It's filler garbage.
I know this may sound crazy but if people enjoyed playing a game years ago and still enjoy playing it today, they might just enjoy playing the game. No nostalgia needed.
But many just don't. The game is still there, but they don't play it. Go figure.
That's a gross over-simplification.
A game may still be around today, but it may be very different from what someone enjoyed "back then".
Your remark is still kind of in the same vein as people who say "people have been clamoring for a true open-world PvP MMO with full loot, but then why aren't all these people playing "-insert MMO title here-"? It must mean that gamestyle isn't really isn't what people want!". It's a very lazy argument. Just because something fits a description, doesn't mean it does it *well*.
It would be like saying "you've been wanting a steakhouse in the area for years, but now that there is one, you're not going! It must mean you don't really like steak!". In fact, what it means is "I like steak, but the restaurant in question serves poor quality food".
Using myself as an example...
I played FFXI religiously for almost 9 years. Had no plans of ever stopping 'til they took the servers down.
Then they introduced Abyssea, which DRASTICALLY changed the game, and the way people approached it, into something I no longer enjoyed.
If they hadn't changed it the way they did, I'd still be playing and paying a sub.
Same with Lineage 2. Played that for about 4 years and intended to continue.. then Goddess of Destruction blew all that away, and L2 was no longer the game I enjoyed. So I stopped.
Nostalgia didn't keep me playing FFXI for 9 years. It didn't keep me playing L2 for 4. A genuine enjoyment of the game *as it was* is what kept me there. Each game is no longer what I enjoyed, so I have no desire to go back... except, of course, for the nostalgia of running around in Vana'diel or Aden... but that's fleeting.
yup all this.
Their changes to Lineage 2 killed the game for me and it was exactly Goddess of Destruction that helped with that. I tried to keep on but "meh".
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The more I think about it the more i think that douche from Blizzard was right when he said "You think you do, but you don't" in regards to players wanting classic. Nostalgia is a funny thing, When you try to go back and relive it , It NEVER LIVES UP TO EXPECTATIONS or memory's.
Just got home from work....Here's a good place to jump in.
Vanilla WoW Emulators, been playing them for the past 6 years.
Honestly, this is how it went, no bullshit !....... 10% nostalgia when first logged in, the music, the Elf area, the standing their at level 1 with my little dagger and no abilities...... I almost cried !!!!
A blast of Nostalgia came over me. HOWEVER that was short lived, then it was down to business, hard work building my character, fitting into the community, making friends, digging in deep for 6 years ! Nostalgia was gone early, yet I played and played, BECAUSE IT WAS A GOOD GAME !
Again the nostalgia lasted a few days.
Honestly, I'm finally about sick of it.... I played the hell out of it.
It would be nice to have a totally different game but the same, if that makes any sense. Something more up-to date but the same morals
WoW Classic and WoW Live are two different games. I prefer WoW Classic by a long shot. Is that Nostalgia? Do I live in the past?
I don't think so, I love BDO, ARK Survival, COD, FIFA, I played ESO and GW2 to death. I am not stuck in the past, I just like good games. I happen to think that WOW Classic it's a far better MMORPG (not game) than WoW Live. I don't even Classify WoW as a MMORPG, just a generic MMO, as generic as it can be.
WoW Classic is a better MMORPG. WoW Live is objectively a better game, but it's boring and repetitive. Actually the right word is meaningless.
Does this make sense? To most probably it won't. Most people don't get there is a difference between a MMORPG and a Game, these are the people who think that MMORPGs evolved and we are stuck in the past, while in fact MMORPGs have been killed off by game developers circa 2008-2010 and turned the existing ones into (just) games.
The only game which I consider still a MMORPG is EVE Online, shame it is a FFA PvP game which is not everyone cup of tea.
The tech hasnt kept up with our dreams. When I first played Asherons Call, I thought, in a few years, 10,000+ people will all be on the same server, and can all be in the same area at one time.
Obviously that hasnt happened. In fact, were going backwards, where there are server "instances" so that you may never see more than 20 people in the same area.
I only play MMO's anymore, and there isnt really anything that is living up to the dreams I had as a younger guy.
WoW Classic and WoW Live are two different games. I prefer WoW Classic by a long shot. Is that Nostalgia? Do I live in the past?
I don't think so, I love BDO, ARK Survival, COD, FIFA, I played ESO and GW2 to death. I am not stuck in the past, I just like good games. I happen to think that WOW Classic it's a far better MMORPG (not game) than WoW Live. I don't even Classify WoW as a MMORPG, just a generic MMO, as generic as it can be.
WoW Classic is a better MMORPG. WoW Live is objectively a better game, but it's boring and repetitive. Actually the right word is meaningless.
Does this make sense? To most probably it won't. Most people don't get there is a difference between a MMORPG and a Game, these are the people who think that MMORPGs evolved and we are stuck in the past, while in fact MMORPGs have been killed off by game developers circa 2008-2010 and turned the existing ones into (just) games.
The only game which I consider still a MMORPG is EVE Online, shame it is a FFA PvP game which is not everyone cup of tea.
Great stuff
WoW Classic and WoW Live are two different games. Very powerful, this tells the difference between then and now = mmo and a game.
The Difference between MMORPG and a Game, was the best.
And why do you need to rush to finish content in 2 months then be bored for the next 5 months until the next patch comes out?
1. Because endgame content is generally better balanced and offers a bit more of a challenge than level grinding. I like my games to challenge me.
2. Because I enjoy PvP, and PvP is often only enjoyable on a max level character with twinked gear if you want to be more than a chewtoy for others who have that.
3. Because my friends are at endgame and I want to play with my friends.
That is why I rush endgame in any and every MMO I play. Because collecting rat tails reflavored 100 different ways isn't true content. It's filler garbage.
Doesn't have to be that way,not at all.
The developers see EASY targets,they see what simple ideas bait in customers and they will ride the money train to the very end. Keywords...RAIDING,End game,BOSSES lots of easy baiting words to lure in the gullible. Utilizing common sense,logic where would you expect to find a high ranking boss?In some dark dank meaningless cave? No of course not,so why do devs do this,EASY,not much thought needed to put into a cave and sticking your target foe at the end of that cave/instance. Know where i expect to find that boss,perhaps at Darkfist citadel,a giant castle like structure not some cave.
Developers should be aiming to keep content in the world not in instances,they should be creating plausible ideas not silly ideas and mechanics that are only there to gain loot or gain xp. If you can't properly design a mmo/rpg then don't go around calling your game a mmorpg.Then if you have no idea how to implement immersion don't go the opposite direction and completely ruin what little you have with scaling.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The tech hasnt kept up with our dreams. When I first played Asherons Call, I thought, in a few years, 10,000+ people will all be on the same server, and can all be in the same area at one time.
Obviously that hasnt happened.
EvE wants a word with you about that
Yeah but that's star ships, not a real avatar running round, is EVE a proper MMO? I know this is tantamount to heresy but it is something that has always been a quandary for me, I know you can say well what's the difference really? I have a hard time equating MMORPG's without seeing avatars running round. But when it comes to gameplay you can't argue EVE's MMORPG position. Same reason I have issues about Star Citizen, good to see they can leave their ships and run around.
The tech hasnt kept up with our dreams. When I first played Asherons Call, I thought, in a few years, 10,000+ people will all be on the same server, and can all be in the same area at one time.
Obviously that hasnt happened. In fact, were going backwards, where there are server "instances" so that you may never see more than 20 people in the same area.
I only play MMO's anymore, and there isnt really anything that is living up to the dreams I had as a younger guy.
I'm quite disappointed too. I haven't given 10,000 people on the server much thought but I was definitely expecting "no zoning ever". If WoW could do it in 2004, I assumed this is where developers would strive for perfection. I also assumed development would be easer for them too, but obviously that's not the case. I'm by far not a programmer but it's now worst !
Animation is only about the same, some developers are better than others, but still about the same.
I guess they focus on graphics and more graphics, but still that's disappointing too. Time and resources are chewing up time that could be spent on content and larger worlds.
Graphics are all about opinion, I'll be honest, call me color blind. But I still play Vanilla WoW. With the settings all juiced up, there's areas that will knock your socks off even by todays standards. Azshara, Stonetalon Mountains, Darkshore, The Zoram Strand, Alterac Mountains........ Even if you don't agree, you would think by now they would be 10X better and a no brainer to achieve, it's 2018 for God sake !
Only exception to all this would be Darkfall Unholy Wars. View distance was absolutely amazing, you can see a nat flying at a thousand yards. Monsters would stare you down before attacking. You could actually hide under a log with out players seeing you........ What the hell happened, no one else can do this ?
WoW pre-cataclysm and post-cataclysm are not exactly the same game.
I totally agree with that. That's why I think this debate about nostalgia is dumb.
There is a clear line in WoW history where Classic turned into modern WoW, and it wasn't subtle or progressive either, not sure how most people missed it. WotLK 1.0 was probably the best WoW iteration, I still consider that Classic or Vanilla. WotLK 2.0 paved the way to Cataclysm, which, like the name of the expansion suggests, radically changed not only Azeroth map, but also the entire game mechanics and philosophy.
Another debate that I find pointless is trying to define what Vanilla means. To me it's all about mechanics and social interaction. I define Vanilla WOW the original game+BC+WotLK 1.0, to me those were the same game even though WotLK introduced some nice quality of life improvements, it was still the same game at its core.
I would not mind WotKL 1.0 quality of life improvements implemented from the beginning on Classic Servers. The only thing I am definitely against are Flying mounts, insta-travel for everyone, tokens, daily quests, and group finder (I am in favor of LFG tools though).
Maybe I went a bit off topic there, but I think it is important that Blizzard get this Classic stuff right. They need to understand that Vanilla WoW mechanics were "different" not "outdated", they should have never retired it, but at the same time they don't have to be too scared of implementing some of the quality of life improvements which make Vanilla even more enjoyable. They got it right with WotLK 1.0, they have to aim to that kind of blueprint for Classic Servers.
WoW pre-cataclysm and post-cataclysm are not exactly the same game.
I totally agree with that. That's why I think this debate about nostalgia is dumb.
There is a clear line in WoW history where Classic turned into modern WoW, and it wasn't subtle or progressive either, not sure how most people missed it. WotLK 1.0 was probably the best WoW iteration, I still consider that Classic or Vanilla. WotLK 2.0 paved the way to Cataclysm, which, like the name of the expansion suggests, radically changed not only Azeroth map, but also the entire game mechanics and philosophy.
Another debate that I find pointless is trying to define what Vanilla means. To me it's all about mechanics and social interaction. I define Vanilla WOW the original game+BC+WotLK 1.0, to me those were the same game even though WotLK introduced some nice quality of life improvements, it was still the same game at its core.
I would not mind WotKL 1.0 quality of life improvements implemented from the beginning on Classic Servers. The only thing I am definitely against are Flying mounts, insta-travel for everyone, tokens, daily quests, and group finder (I am in favor of LFG tools though).
Maybe I went a bit off topic there, but I think it is important that Blizzard get this Classic stuff right. They need to understand that Vanilla WoW mechanics were "different" not "outdated", they should have never retired it, but at the same time they don't have to be too scared of implementing some of the quality of life improvements which make Vanilla even more enjoyable. They got it right with WotLK 1.0, they have to aim to that kind of blueprint for Classic Servers.
"Different" not" Outdated"....... Love this, mind if I use that line now and then ?
Comments
Sure, there are some people who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. I would also go as far as to say that there are people who say "I want x, y and z" and then when presented with it they say "well, almost, but it has potential".
But there are people who know what they want and would be happy to have it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
MMORPGS are nothing more than fast food because people cry about not having time.
Project Gorgon isn't done yet (though I play it) but that might be a contender once it's actually done.
Albion is a forced perspective game so we know that will either attract or repel players.
What else?
I think things are a bit more nuanced than that.
In any case, there is a reason I gave money to Pantheon.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
MMORPG's have always been a "rush" to end game. In oldschool games you had a level (be it skill level, character level whatever kind), you wanted to grow that level, and thus you are rushing to get it higher. You aren't sitting back and just enjoying the game. You were progressing towards something. When I played L2, back when it was hard to level, everyone was always grinding the most efficient way to level quicker. In EQ people were always camping zones that gave the most EXP for a group. Same with FFXI. I never went to areas that weren't efficient, because nobody else ever wanted to.
Just because it took longer doesn't mean the journey was any different. Sure it may have been more atmospheric, or newer feeling at the time. Usually the games had a lot of things you could do to progress, but there was always the most efficient way, that 90% of people did.
People didn't raid or do PvP in the old MMORPG's from the start. They are generally at the end of the leveling, even in older games.
At least that's from the post you quoted.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
How many new attempts have we seen in that realm? I would submit the analogy of the cRPG rennassaince. Pillars of Eternity was a resounding success, as was the Wasteland reboot. Both are moving towards sequels. Neither would be considered in step with modern RPGs. Do we tell folks who enjoy PoE and Wasteland 2 that they're merely enjoying nostalgia, and it will wear off?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Aloha Mr Hand !
Pillars of Eternity
Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
Divinity: Original Sin 2
I get it. Some of you can't understand the appeal of older games. You hate them, or at least dislike them, and that makes it difficult for you to see any of the appeal. So you feel the need to be dismissive of it entirely by saying it's simply nostalgia.
It's not. I enjoy some older games more than current ones. Stop attempting to dismiss my gaming tastes simply because you don't understand them.
That's what I think of when I think of an excellent "old school" title.
So, for me, he did not fail. I paid for that entertainment and was happy to do it.
And I think that's the crux of this whole argument. You and yours just can't understand why other people are doing things and therefore it's obvious that they are flawed.
Also, remember, Vanguard released in a horrid state and never really was in an "amazing state" thereafter.
If you are going to point to why a game failed you have to actually point to why it failed.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Things like UI and tech improvements don't disqualify or preclude design philosophies like multiple types of defense, utility roles for each group member that adds value and variety to how you can approach tasks, and large amounts of world interactivity, such as locks, booby-trapped locks, regular traps, alarms, scavenging staches, hidden caves that need special equipment or skills to access, and so on.
These things add depth I find enjoyable, specifically when they can add value to the idea of forming communities and groups that work together to tackle the challenges.
A game may still be around today, but it may be very different from what someone enjoyed "back then".
Your remark is still kind of in the same vein as people who say "people have been clamoring for a true open-world PvP MMO with full loot, but then why aren't all these people playing "-insert MMO title here-"? It must mean that gamestyle isn't really isn't what people want!". It's a very lazy argument. Just because something fits a description, doesn't mean it does it *well*.
It would be like saying "you've been wanting a steakhouse in the area for years, but now that there is one, you're not going! It must mean you don't really like steak!". In fact, what it means is "I like steak, but the restaurant in question serves poor quality food".
Using myself as an example...
I played FFXI religiously for almost 9 years. Had no plans of ever stopping 'til they took the servers down.
Then they introduced Abyssea, which DRASTICALLY changed the game, and the way people approached it, into something I no longer enjoyed.
If they hadn't changed it the way they did, I'd still be playing and paying a sub.
Same with Lineage 2. Played that for about 4 years and intended to continue.. then Goddess of Destruction blew all that away, and L2 was no longer the game I enjoyed. So I stopped.
Nostalgia didn't keep me playing FFXI for 9 years. It didn't keep me playing L2 for 4. A genuine enjoyment of the game *as it was* is what kept me there. Each game is no longer what I enjoyed, so I have no desire to go back... except, of course, for the nostalgia of running around in Vana'diel or Aden... but that's fleeting.
2. Because I enjoy PvP, and PvP is often only enjoyable on a max level character with twinked gear if you want to be more than a chewtoy for others who have that.
3. Because my friends are at endgame and I want to play with my friends.
That is why I rush endgame in any and every MMO I play. Because collecting rat tails reflavored 100 different ways isn't true content. It's filler garbage.
Their changes to Lineage 2 killed the game for me and it was exactly Goddess of Destruction that helped with that. I tried to keep on but "meh".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Just got home from work....Here's a good place to jump in.
Vanilla WoW Emulators, been playing them for the past 6 years.
Honestly, this is how it went, no bullshit !....... 10% nostalgia when first logged in, the music, the Elf area, the standing their at level 1 with my little dagger and no abilities...... I almost cried !!!!
A blast of Nostalgia came over me. HOWEVER that was short lived, then it was down to business, hard work building my character, fitting into the community, making friends, digging in deep for 6 years ! Nostalgia was gone early, yet I played and played, BECAUSE IT WAS A GOOD GAME !
Again the nostalgia lasted a few days.
Honestly, I'm finally about sick of it.... I played the hell out of it.
It would be nice to have a totally different game but the same, if that makes any sense. Something more up-to date but the same morals
WoW Classic and WoW Live are two different games.
I prefer WoW Classic by a long shot.
Is that Nostalgia? Do I live in the past?
I don't think so, I love BDO, ARK Survival, COD, FIFA, I played ESO and GW2 to death.
I am not stuck in the past, I just like good games.
I happen to think that WOW Classic it's a far better MMORPG (not game) than WoW Live.
I don't even Classify WoW as a MMORPG, just a generic MMO, as generic as it can be.
WoW Classic is a better MMORPG.
WoW Live is objectively a better game, but it's boring and repetitive.
Actually the right word is meaningless.
Does this make sense? To most probably it won't.
Most people don't get there is a difference between a MMORPG and a Game, these are the people who think that MMORPGs evolved and we are stuck in the past, while in fact MMORPGs have been killed off by game developers circa 2008-2010 and turned the existing ones into (just) games.
The only game which I consider still a MMORPG is EVE Online, shame it is a FFA PvP game which is not everyone cup of tea.
Obviously that hasnt happened. In fact, were going backwards, where there are server "instances" so that you may never see more than 20 people in the same area.
I only play MMO's anymore, and there isnt really anything that is living up to the dreams I had as a younger guy.
-----------------------------------
MMO player
Great stuff
WoW Classic and WoW Live are two different games. Very powerful, this tells the difference between then and now = mmo and a game.
The Difference between MMORPG and a Game, was the best.
The developers see EASY targets,they see what simple ideas bait in customers and they will ride the money train to the very end.
Keywords...RAIDING,End game,BOSSES lots of easy baiting words to lure in the gullible.
Utilizing common sense,logic where would you expect to find a high ranking boss?In some dark dank meaningless cave?
No of course not,so why do devs do this,EASY,not much thought needed to put into a cave and sticking your target foe at the end of that cave/instance.
Know where i expect to find that boss,perhaps at Darkfist citadel,a giant castle like structure not some cave.
Developers should be aiming to keep content in the world not in instances,they should be creating plausible ideas not silly ideas and mechanics that are only there to gain loot or gain xp.
If you can't properly design a mmo/rpg then don't go around calling your game a mmorpg.Then if you have no idea how to implement immersion don't go the opposite direction and completely ruin what little you have with scaling.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Yeah but that's star ships, not a real avatar running round, is EVE a proper MMO? I know this is tantamount to heresy but it is something that has always been a quandary for me, I know you can say well what's the difference really? I have a hard time equating MMORPG's without seeing avatars running round. But when it comes to gameplay you can't argue EVE's MMORPG position. Same reason I have issues about Star Citizen, good to see they can leave their ships and run around.
I'm quite disappointed too.
I haven't given 10,000 people on the server much thought but I was definitely expecting "no zoning ever". If WoW could do it in 2004, I assumed this is where developers would strive for perfection. I also assumed development would be easer for them too, but obviously that's not the case. I'm by far not a programmer but it's now worst !
Animation is only about the same, some developers are better than others, but still about the same.
I guess they focus on graphics and more graphics, but still that's disappointing too. Time and resources are chewing up time that could be spent on content and larger worlds.
Graphics are all about opinion, I'll be honest, call me color blind.
But I still play Vanilla WoW. With the settings all juiced up, there's areas that will knock your socks off even by todays standards. Azshara, Stonetalon Mountains, Darkshore, The Zoram Strand, Alterac Mountains........ Even if you don't agree, you would think by now they would be 10X better and a no brainer to achieve, it's 2018 for God sake !
Only exception to all this would be Darkfall Unholy Wars.
View distance was absolutely amazing, you can see a nat flying at a thousand yards. Monsters would stare you down before attacking. You could actually hide under a log with out players seeing you........ What the hell happened, no one else can do this ?
That's why I think this debate about nostalgia is dumb.
There is a clear line in WoW history where Classic turned into modern WoW, and it wasn't subtle or progressive either, not sure how most people missed it.
WotLK 1.0 was probably the best WoW iteration, I still consider that Classic or Vanilla.
WotLK 2.0 paved the way to Cataclysm, which, like the name of the expansion suggests, radically changed not only Azeroth map, but also the entire game mechanics and philosophy.
Another debate that I find pointless is trying to define what Vanilla means.
To me it's all about mechanics and social interaction.
I define Vanilla WOW the original game+BC+WotLK 1.0, to me those were the same game even though WotLK introduced some nice quality of life improvements, it was still the same game at its core.
I would not mind WotKL 1.0 quality of life improvements implemented from the beginning on Classic Servers.
The only thing I am definitely against are Flying mounts, insta-travel for everyone, tokens, daily quests, and group finder (I am in favor of LFG tools though).
Maybe I went a bit off topic there, but I think it is important that Blizzard get this Classic stuff right.
They need to understand that Vanilla WoW mechanics were "different" not "outdated", they should have never retired it, but at the same time they don't have to be too scared of implementing some of the quality of life improvements which make Vanilla even more enjoyable.
They got it right with WotLK 1.0, they have to aim to that kind of blueprint for Classic Servers.
"Different" not" Outdated"....... Love this, mind if I use that line now and then ?