Taking a Look Back at the First Anniversary of KickStarter - Ashes of Creation - MMORPG.com

SBFord

Taking a Look Back at the First Anniversary of KickStarter - Ashes of Creation - MMORPG.com

Ashes of Creation News - It's hard to believe, but it has been a full year since the Ashes of Creation KickStarter campaign, and what a year it's been. In a new letter sent out to the Ashes community, the team celebrates growth and reports that the project is proceeding on schedule and "making remarkable progress".

Read the full story here

Vrika

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

SBFord

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

IceAge

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

Nope! The problem is devs only. 

You see, if they are making a game with their own money , then they can ... push back the release date as many times as they want. But , if they are promising X release date ( beside other "features ) when they are asking for donors to support their project , and not delivering it , then that's 100% their fault, which .. from my point of view, should have some .. consequences for the dev's. 

SBFord

IceAge said:

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

Nope! The problem is devs only. 

You see, if they are making a game with their own money , then they can ... push back the release date as many times as they want. But , if they are promising X release date ( beside other "features ) when they are asking for donors to support their project , and not delivering it , then that's 100% their fault, which .. from my point of view, should have some .. consequences for the dev's. 

Read the fine print. Everything is subject to change blah blah blah. If you invest in KS, you subject yourself to fluid development dates and the potential loss of your money. Caveat emptor. 

Albatroes

More importantly, why are we acknowledging this as something...? I mean CoE is celebrating a 2 year or whatever, SC celebrates whenever. I thought celebrations usually came around starting 1 year after something officially released, not celebrating how many years its been in development....Its starting to feel like I'm in an alternate reality. Single player games being partially released and expecting full release price with DLC costing half or the same price as full release. P2P games having actively monthly updated cash shops. Devs/publishers looking good to the community just because they WONT put loot boxes in their game and just let you buy everything individually. And now celebrating how long a crowdfunded project has been in development. There's also the elephant in the room that I dont ever see anyone acknowledge. If its taking x amount of years to even push a game into development with a team that's 1/10 the size of a normal AAA, how will the game be sustained without waiting twice/three/four times as long for issues to be addressed while ALSO coming out with new content. Reaching development is fine, but keeping the game relevant past its 3 month honeymoon period should be more important.

Vrika

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

If it is as you say, and the release date was so unrealistic that people should have known it's not going to happen, then the devs have made a deception.

A mistake can and often should be forgiven. A deception should not.

zenomex

"read the fine print" haha wow nice comeback

SBFord

Vrika said:

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

If it is as you say, and the release date was so unrealistic that people should have known it's not going to happen, then the devs have made a deception.

A mistake can and often should be forgiven. A deception should not.

Can you prove deception, however? Or is it a factor of overambitious expectations? I mean, we see the same things happen in construction all the time -- building delays and so on. They overestimated how fast they'd finish the road improvements in front of my house by a long shot. It is a factor in the creation / construction of anything. 

Honestly, this is partially why I stopped backing KickStarter projects. The benefits of backing aren't worth the angst of worrying about when the game will come out or the (even if small) potential that I'll lose the $ I sent along. I pretty much look at KS as a Vegas slot machine any more. I may throw my wallet at it, but that doesn't mean it's going to deliver the jackpot. I'd rather just wait to see what happens and, if it does release and is good, I'll buy it.

zenomex said:

"read the fine print" haha wow nice comeback

It's a great comeback and if you're not reading the fine print, that's your problem, not the people who put it there for precisely this type of situation. Honestly, why wouldn't you before throwing money at a project?

IceAge

SBFord said:

IceAge said:

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

Nope! The problem is devs only. 

You see, if they are making a game with their own money , then they can ... push back the release date as many times as they want. But , if they are promising X release date ( beside other "features ) when they are asking for donors to support their project , and not delivering it , then that's 100% their fault, which .. from my point of view, should have some .. consequences for the dev's. 

Read the fine print. Everything is subject to change blah blah blah. If you invest in KS, you subject yourself to fluid development dates and the potential loss of your money. Caveat emptor. 

Well , then that makes them scammers. 

"Legal" Scammers that is .. 

Slapshot1188

Albatroes said:

More importantly, why are we acknowledging this as something...? I mean CoE is celebrating a 2 year or whatever, SC celebrates whenever. I thought celebrations usually came around starting 1 year after something officially released, not celebrating how many years its been in development....Its starting to feel like I'm in an alternate reality. Single player games being partially released and expecting full release price with DLC costing half or the same price as full release. P2P games having actively monthly updated cash shops. Devs/publishers looking good to the community just because they WONT put loot boxes in their game and just let you buy everything individually. And now celebrating how long a crowdfunded project has been in development. There's also the elephant in the room that I dont ever see anyone acknowledge. If its taking x amount of years to even push a game into development with a team that's 1/10 the size of a normal AAA, how will the game be sustained without waiting twice/three/four times as long for issues to be addressed while ALSO coming out with new content. Reaching development is fine, but keeping the game relevant past its 3 month honeymoon period should be more important.

I was going to post something similar.  A different game in development is actually celebrating a Kickstarter anniversary even though they are past their planned launch date and not even in Alpha.  They are celebrating with a sale and if they raise another 400k their stretch goal is to allow the backers to buy more stuff previously “limited to 1 per acct... now they will let you buy 2! Such lucky customers!

Its ok to have a blurb commemorating when the project started and the progress gained but let’s not lower the bar so much that we celebrate fundraising.

Slapshot1188

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

If a developer promises release at a certain date, passes that date, is not even in Alpha and now doubled the projected release date that developer was either utterly incompetent or deceptive.  If a developer is challenged on their timeline and mocks the questioners... it demonstrates intent.

Im totally fine with people missing their dates, but NOT if they miss their target by YEARS and refuse refunds.  If a developer can change the conditions of the purchase the consumer should have to agree to those new conditions or get a refund.  It’s not the customers fault that the developer over-promised.


Edit it to add-  During the KS Stephen promised refunds so I assume this is still in effect.  If so, people really can’t complain too much about any delays.  Worst case is that you get your cash back.

adam_nox

SBFord said:

IceAge said:

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

Nope! The problem is devs only. 

You see, if they are making a game with their own money , then they can ... push back the release date as many times as they want. But , if they are promising X release date ( beside other "features ) when they are asking for donors to support their project , and not delivering it , then that's 100% their fault, which .. from my point of view, should have some .. consequences for the dev's. 

Read the fine print. Everything is subject to change blah blah blah. If you invest in KS, you subject yourself to fluid development dates and the potential loss of your money. Caveat emptor. 

The 'fine print' argument died in the 90s. You put 2018 in the big letters, it means 2018.

Sovrath

IceAge said:

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

Nope! The problem is devs only. 

You see, if they are making a game with their own money , then they can ... push back the release date as many times as they want. But , if they are promising X release date ( beside other "features ) when they are asking for donors to support their project , and not delivering it , then that's 100% their fault, which .. from my point of view, should have some .. consequences for the dev's. 

I'd just like to point out that when "investors" are talked about many times certain people say "they are greedy" for wanting what they want for their money.

All of a sudden players have their own money involved and we see the same sentiment as you've stated.

Just an interesting thing of note.

SBFord

adam_nox said:

SBFord said:

IceAge said:

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

Nope! The problem is devs only. 

You see, if they are making a game with their own money , then they can ... push back the release date as many times as they want. But , if they are promising X release date ( beside other "features ) when they are asking for donors to support their project , and not delivering it , then that's 100% their fault, which .. from my point of view, should have some .. consequences for the dev's. 

Read the fine print. Everything is subject to change blah blah blah. If you invest in KS, you subject yourself to fluid development dates and the potential loss of your money. Caveat emptor. 

The 'fine print' argument died in the 90s. You put 2018 in the big letters, it means 2018.

Are you for real? I read the fine print before I throw my hard-earned cash at anything, including Kickstarter. If I don't like what I read, I don't hand over any money. Period. If you don't do your due diligence, the fault is your own if you get caught in the details.

IceAge

Sovrath said:

IceAge said:

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

Nope! The problem is devs only. 

You see, if they are making a game with their own money , then they can ... push back the release date as many times as they want. But , if they are promising X release date ( beside other "features ) when they are asking for donors to support their project , and not delivering it , then that's 100% their fault, which .. from my point of view, should have some .. consequences for the dev's. 

I'd just like to point out that when "investors" are talked about many times certain people say "they are greedy" for wanting what they want for their money.

All of a sudden players have their own money involved and we see the same sentiment as you've stated.

Just an interesting thing of note.

Very different things here. Not going to start a debate with what you've said. I will just say that is not even close to make a .. comparation. 

Investor's money vs Player's money ...

Sovrath

IceAge said:

Sovrath said:

IceAge said:

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

Nope! The problem is devs only. 

You see, if they are making a game with their own money , then they can ... push back the release date as many times as they want. But , if they are promising X release date ( beside other "features ) when they are asking for donors to support their project , and not delivering it , then that's 100% their fault, which .. from my point of view, should have some .. consequences for the dev's. 

I'd just like to point out that when "investors" are talked about many times certain people say "they are greedy" for wanting what they want for their money.

All of a sudden players have their own money involved and we see the same sentiment as you've stated.

Just an interesting thing of note.

Very different things here. Not going to start a debate with what you've said. I will just say that is not even close to make a .. comparation. 

Investor's money vs Player's money ...

But the point is, when money is involved, when one's own money is involved, suddenly one wants "results".

So while the end result for both are different the idea that one wants "what they paid for" is not.

IceAge

Sovrath said:

IceAge said:

Sovrath said:

IceAge said:

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

Nope! The problem is devs only. 

You see, if they are making a game with their own money , then they can ... push back the release date as many times as they want. But , if they are promising X release date ( beside other "features ) when they are asking for donors to support their project , and not delivering it , then that's 100% their fault, which .. from my point of view, should have some .. consequences for the dev's. 

I'd just like to point out that when "investors" are talked about many times certain people say "they are greedy" for wanting what they want for their money.

All of a sudden players have their own money involved and we see the same sentiment as you've stated.

Just an interesting thing of note.

Very different things here. Not going to start a debate with what you've said. I will just say that is not even close to make a .. comparation. 

Investor's money vs Player's money ...

But the point is, when money is involved, when one's own money is involved, suddenly one wants "results".

So while the end result for both are different the idea that one wants "what they paid for" is not.

Actually , you are right. That will be Investor's money vs Investor's money , because .. in KS situations, players are actually Investor's , and so , Investors have all the right to "suddenly" ask for "results" , because "what they paid for".

Yup. Good point you made there.

DiscipledOne

IceAge said:

Sovrath said:

IceAge said:

Sovrath said:

IceAge said:

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

Nope! The problem is devs only. 

You see, if they are making a game with their own money , then they can ... push back the release date as many times as they want. But , if they are promising X release date ( beside other "features ) when they are asking for donors to support their project , and not delivering it , then that's 100% their fault, which .. from my point of view, should have some .. consequences for the dev's. 

I'd just like to point out that when "investors" are talked about many times certain people say "they are greedy" for wanting what they want for their money.



All of a sudden players have their own money involved and we see the same sentiment as you've stated.



Just an interesting thing of note.

Very different things here. Not going to start a debate with what you've said. I will just say that is not even close to make a .. comparation. 

Investor's money vs Player's money ...

But the point is, when money is involved, when one's own money is involved, suddenly one wants "results".

So while the end result for both are different the idea that one wants "what they paid for" is not.

Actually , you are right. That will be Investor's money vs Investor's money , because .. in KS situations, players are actually Investor's , and so , Investors have all the right to "suddenly" ask for "results" , because "what they paid for".

Yup. Good point you made there.

This is why I don’t support Kickstarters they want investors, but the investors have even less power, and don’t receive any ownership of what they are asked to invest in. It’s great for the groups who can’t get funding the traditional way, and sure some kick-starters have turned out well. I just overall don’t trust it.

Cryomatrix

I never backed KS because by the time no was excited and our money down, would I still be excited when it finally releases. It could be 5 years when the game releases, who knows if I even will have time to play or not.

Sovrath

IceAge said:

But the point is, when money is involved, when one's own money is involved, suddenly one wants "results".

So while the end result for both are different the idea that one wants "what they paid for" is not.

Actually , you are right. That will be Investor's money vs Investor's money , because .. in KS situations, players are actually Investor's , and so , Investors have all the right to "suddenly" ask for "results" , because "what they paid for".

Yup. Good point you made there.

Again that wasn't the point but if you can't get it fine. Even after I explained it.

Vrika

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

SBFord said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

LrdEtrius said:

Maybe they put the date wrong, it was prob Dec 2020. XD

Probably an over-ambitious release window but, honestly, if you expect an MMO to be released in under 5 years, the problem is yours as much as the sometimes too enthusiastic devs who overestimate their capabilities.

If it is as you say, and the release date was so unrealistic that people should have known it's not going to happen, then the devs have made a deception.

A mistake can and often should be forgiven. A deception should not.

Can you prove deception, however? Or is it a factor of overambitious expectations? I mean, we see the same things happen in construction all the time -- building delays and so on. They overestimated how fast they'd finish the road improvements in front of my house by a long shot. It is a factor in the creation / construction of anything. 

I did not claim that people who thought info provided by the dev team could be true have a problem. You did.

Sovrath

DiscipledOne said:

This is why I don’t support Kickstarters they want investors, but the investors have even less power, and don’t receive any ownership of what they are asked to invest in. It’s great for the groups who can’t get funding the traditional way, and sure some kick-starters have turned out well. I just overall don’t trust it.

I've only ever had one kickstarter "go on the rocks" and amusingly enough it was for something that shouldn't have had issues.

It's the System Shock remaster. The Developers apparently lost their heads and started making a "new game" (their words) over actually just remastering System Shock. And the amount of money they had was plentiful. They say they are on track now but we'll see.

Also Camelot Unchained is still in development so we'll see.

Otherwise, everything I've given money to has come to pass including this month's "Agony".



This is probably a bit intense for some:



I think if one is careful, give money to projects that seem viable, maybe those that have something to play, you will be mitigating some risk.

Also, never give what you aren't willing to lose.

I just give enough to get a copy of the game/movie so in essence, for me, it's like pre-ordering.

Vrika

Torval said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

That isn''t what is said at all. Kickstarter isn't a great game launch platform (there weren't any at the time) and they require "a date". It's clearly stated in the FAQ:

"Kickstarter Alphas is currently scheduled to launch in 2018, with Betas following after that. Note, this schedule is subject to change based on development milestones."

I read the entire Kickstarter and asked questions on media channels to ensure I understood project scope and timeline, and whether I thought they could actually pull it off. I don't normally fund MMOs and I wanted to ensure they had a funding plan beyond KS. Nothing about the timeline was confusing, but people like to beat off the dead horse.

The estimated delivery date of Kickstarter packages, including the package that doesn't come with any Alpha or Beta access, is 2018.

So what the Kickstarter told about their schedule that they will hold weekend NDA Alpha starting 2017, then during 2018 they will have Alpha 1, Alpha 2, Beta 1, Beta 2 and commercial launch.

Vrika

Torval said:

Vrika said:

Torval said:

Vrika said:

The game was supposed to make full release in Dec 2018. Yet another Kickstarter whose schedule has nothing at all to do with reality.

That isn''t what is said at all. Kickstarter isn't a great game launch platform (there weren't any at the time) and they require "a date". It's clearly stated in the FAQ:

"Kickstarter Alphas is currently scheduled to launch in 2018, with Betas following after that. Note, this schedule is subject to change based on development milestones."

I read the entire Kickstarter and asked questions on media channels to ensure I understood project scope and timeline, and whether I thought they could actually pull it off. I don't normally fund MMOs and I wanted to ensure they had a funding plan beyond KS. Nothing about the timeline was confusing, but people like to beat off the dead horse.

The estimated delivery date of Kickstarter packages, including the package that doesn't come with any Alpha or Beta access, is 2018.

So what the Kickstarter told about their schedule that they will hold weekend NDA Alpha starting 2017, then during 2018 they will have Alpha 1, Alpha 2, Beta 1, Beta 2 and commercial launch.

No, it's not. The game started to see release in closed Alpha 2017. You're making shit up to suit your agenda because you like to create a situation where you can criticize some imaginary wrong to make yourself look insightful and credible. "vrika the exposer of lies!" You're not.

What deep truth did you think you were communicating?

Here's a screenshot of cheapest Kickstarter package for you: