Before you burn me on a stick like some kind of heretic, I want you to take a deep breath, read this (it's rather short) and try to make some logical connections of your own(if possible).
Many years ago, a great passion was born for bringing great numbers of players together. Something to overcome traditional multiplayer games and do what was never done before. In the end they called it... MMO : Massively Multiplayer Online, which then became a new genre of games, with MMORPG being the most widely known. Today we have many types of MMOs... like MMORPGs, MMORTSs, MMOFPS, and MMO-whatever you want. But are they really all MMOs or is this just an over-abused term in order to cater to a bigger audience?
I was just browsing this the other days: https://www.mmorpg.com/games-list , trying to see if I can find something new worthwhile in there. However I remained a bit shocked to see how some titles were categorized, e.g. :
- Destiny 2 - MMOFPS (an online multiplayer game with shared lobby, 3-6 player party size, and 12 players max in PVP)
- Soulworker - MMORPG (an online multiplayer game with shared lobby, 4 player party size, and 12? players max in PVP)
- Vindictus - MMORPG (an online multiplayer game with shared lobby (towns), 8? player party size - haven't played this in some time)
And these are just some examples.
Why are these labeled MMOs (Massively Multiplayer Online) instead of MOs (Multiplayer online)? Where is the "Massive or Massively" part in them ? Is it the shared lobbies where you can dance with some dozen other players? Can they really compare to actual MMOs like World of Warcraft, Lineage 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Eve Online that actually brought hundreds or more players together, on the same server in the same place? Is it not a very wrong thing to lump them together?
Some of you might not care about the naming. But the way it looks right now, in the future every online multiplayer game with a shared lobby will be named an MMO (it's already happening), just to sell better. And I think it's an insult to both the developers and players that are looking towards creating/getting immersed in a true "massive" experience.
Thanks for reading. You decide the future.
I think what is going wrong here, is that you are labeling the party size to the game size. Even at the dawn of MMO's with EQ and the like, party size was always in the small range of 4 - 6.
It is the size of the lobby and the volume of people you have to select from that make the game massive.
If there are 10K people in the lobby for you to group with, even if you can only pick 4 - 6 of them, to go on a dungeon crawl with, that's a massive volume of people that are playing the game at the same time.
It isn't and never was about party size. It's about how many people can be in the same map/zone playing together with each other. Even if an mmorpg had a system to where you could not make parties whatsoever, but you could still interact with and play with hundreds of other players at the same time in the same area....it would be an mmorpg.
With your logic, Diablo 1-3 are mmorpgs which is fucking insanity.
I agree but , the spirit of it goes a bit further ..
When the phrase was coined by Garriot he was asked to describe UO , And in that he said
"thousands of people interacting and effecting each others experience in a persistent world .."
Which UO was and is .. You can be in Brit and a friend could be getting attacked by reds on the other side of the world say Skara Brae , And you could be called to help ... Or someone could attempt a lvl5 treasure map near your house and fail at it leaving a bunch of very angry mobs in your area that will have to be dealt with..or soemone holding a fishing contest, a horticultural contest , opening a RUne library or a publi Museum with great Artifacts to go see etc ..Many many intangibles and player induced events all over the Game WORLD can effect your play and activity ..
The same applied to SWG/Anarchy Online /Asherons Call /DAOC etc .. These are the games that DEFINED the MMO genre, and the defined it by delivering the same engaging persistent WORLDS , wether it SWG and your friends Town being attacked on another planet , or a Keep in DAOC , or a World Event in AC , Wars in AO etc..
It was never about How many players you can fit on your screen or in a "ZONE" it was about the WORLD and other players can effect your playtime in a positive/negative/exciting/laughable/shocking way.. at any time from anywhere else in that play world ...
Yes but the problem is, many old school MMORPG aficionados can't agree on what feature set makes a "true" MMORPG.
Bless Destiny 2 Path of Exile
How many of those are MMOs to you?
If your answer is zero you're probably Wizardry's alt account and think only FFXI deserves to be called one. If your answer is one, you're one of the 80% from that poll @scorchien is always bringing up, have a fairly good handle on what an MMO is even if you can't verbalize it coherently or even know what coherent is. If your answer is 2 you're not paying attention and are easily confused. If your answer is 3, you're MMORPG.COM and will put all 3 in next year's MMO of the year list.
Ive done similar before ... to try and explain ..
Lets play ..One of these Things is not like the Others....
Ultima Online Eve Destiny 2 Star Wars Galaxies
Which one is different and why ...?
If anyone answers Honestly to themselves they know the differences ..they are MANY ..
Well there's the rub. When I personally use the term MMO its just shorthand for MMORPG, less to type.
I do the same.
And I agree, other than when it's used that way it is utterly meaningless especially when people say "It may not be an MMORPG but it's an MMO"... say what?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Personally I do not care if "games are changing"; I'd rather they developed a sister site for all of these other "games" I come here for MMO's.
Not rpg's, not pay to win browser games, and whatever else they have been throwing into the soup.
Agree with the poster 110%!
There's no way to agree 110%. At most, you agree 100%. No matter how much you give a shit, it's not possible to give 110% of a shit.
Can you start the discussion about the classification of what agreeing a certain percentage means on another thread. We got enough drama here with what I am now calling the "MMORPG Problem".
lol .. i have not been here for a while . and guess what .. another thread about the definition of MMOs.
What the does future entail? That most gamers wouldn't care less of what a MMO is?
There will be no agreement. No consensus. A bunch here will argue till their faces blue what MMO should or should not bet. They will be largely ignored by this site, and most of the gaming world.
And why am I posting here again? I am amused. This is more fun than most MMOs .. oh wait .. most MMOs by the definition of this site.
lol .. i have not been here for a while . and guess what .. another thread about the definition of MMOs.
What the does future entail? That most gamers wouldn't care less of what a MMO is?
There will be no agreement. No consensus. A bunch here will argue till their faces blue what MMO should or should not bet. They will be largely ignored by this site, and most of the gaming world.
And why am I posting here again? I am amused. This is more fun than most MMOs .. oh wait .. most MMOs by the definition of this site.
You say that there's no agreement or consensus but i'm pretty sure everyone in this thread minus the trolls will agree or come to a consensus that The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild isn't an mmo yes? Or that Diablo 3 isn't an mmo...or Fifa 2018..or CoD : 4.
Everytime i see someone say "there's no consensus" i really truly can't help but shake my head.
What's stopping me from naming my new 3v3 Basketball game a MMOSports game? Would that make it acceptable for this site as well since as the developer I say it's a MMO?
What's stopping me from naming my new 3v3 Basketball game a MMOSports game? Would that make it acceptable for this site as well since as the developer I say it's a MMO?
Nothing. Go ahead. if you think it fits then great. If others don't see it that way "tha'ts the breaks".
If others look at the features, see that it's not for them and move in even bettah.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
What's stopping me from naming my new 3v3 Basketball game a MMOSports game? Would that make it acceptable for this site as well since as the developer I say it's a MMO?
Nothing. Go ahead. if you think it fits then great. If others don't see it that way "tha'ts the breaks".
If others look at the features, see that it's not for them and move in even bettah.
Ok and let's say my game is vague with media demos like most games in the genre now days. This site promote my game as a MMOSports game. Now let's say you looking for an actual MMOSports game. How would you figure out if my game is a MMOSports game or not?
What's stopping me from naming my new 3v3 Basketball game a MMOSports game? Would that make it acceptable for this site as well since as the developer I say it's a MMO?
Well the first thing that would stop most people is 3v3 .. this is not an MMO ....
Unless maybe ... 3v3 Scrabble is also an MMO now .. ??
For example. We don't see the same style games from 1999 as we do now.
Look at RPGs. They started almost entirely as huge open worlds, with massive game length. Even games like Skyrim aren't anything like Daggerfall, the biggest open world game ever...Skyrim is nothing like Morrowind either.
Morrowind isn't even anything like Oblivion either
And then look at Fallout 1/2...vastly different than Fallout 3, NV and even more different is Fallout 4
Which are great examples of them all being RPGs, but very different than older RPGs. But just because they are different doesn't make them not RPGs
What you're describing and what OP is describing is like oil and water my man. Also i dont even know what you're on about. Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim all share a fuck ton of similarities. Just like Witcher 1-3 does. Well maybe not 1, i didn't play it but at least 2-3. They're all RPGs at their core despite the differences.
OP is right, none of those are MMOs, he's most right about Vindictus and Soul Worker. I came in this thread ready to lambast OP thinking he was yet another person going "Why is Diablo 3 and Path of Exile listed on the game list when they're not mmorpgs" when they're clearly labeled as ARPGs...but yea sure enough destiny is an mmofps and vindictus an mmorpg. lol
I'm curious where this goes.
Morrowind is nothing like Skyrim lol. In morrowind, you grinding the skills up (sorta same in oblivion, morrowind is more similar to oblivion in some ways). That makes it really different in itself. Where as Skyrim its a perk tree like Fallout, makes the game really different. But many other changes to.
Though the biggest example I noticed you skipped...
You can't say fallout 1 and 2 are anything like fallout 3, NV which are pretty different than fallout 4.
Fallout 1 and 2 are completely different style RPGs than bethesda's fallout...but they are still RPGs despite them being vastly different.
You're going off-topic. He's saying they're still RPG's. Maybe different features, yes, but still RPG's.
Well, are they? Morrowind? Skyrim? Are they games that encourage Role Play? Do you Role Play a character? You do? THEN YES, they are the SAME GENRE OF GAME.
The OP isn't talking about how game features inside one genre has changed. He's saying there's a lot of games labeled MMO that are not Massive. So in effect they are labeled wrong. He's right. And yes, it's probably marketing. But no one is guarding the term MMO, so really any publishing company can say they're next game is MMO, whether it is or not.
No one is guarding what TV stations say is News either. Which is why a lot of "News" programs are really Opinion Forums.
Gameplay is completely different, making them entirely new types of RPG games. They are still RPGs, but are vastly different from each other. But I see you are focused on the "roleplaying" part which is always the same, but choose to ignore the "gameplay" part because it doesn't fit your agenda. Too bad for you.
Also, lets go to the strategy games. They are all strategic, but all play very differently.
Many strategy games can be a tiny game like leagues of legend. Or it can be a massive 4x game like Europa Universalis, or civilization series, or Total War. Or Supreme Commander for a huge massive rts...or a fast paced zerg based strategy game like starcraft 2. Some strategy games you don't build anything (warhammer RTSs, minus the first warhammer)...some you do.
There can be different types of RPG games. There can be different types of RTS games. From 4x games, to MOBAs, to card games (like hearthstone), to fast paced ones on a much smaller scale (warcraft 3/starcraft 2)...they are all strategy, but nothing alike (well warcraft 3/SC2 are pretty similar). Each of those games can be singleplayer, or played with a a couple people, or a few people or played with a massive amount of people.
However what you choose to ignore, is ...yes...they are all RPGs or all strategy games, but are all vastly different than each other. Therefore, why can there not be MMOs that aren't like other MMOs? They can all still be MMOs, like all strategy games are still strategy games or all roleplaying games...they are just different from each other.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
I think folks are so protective of standards and what MMOs are because it's real estate in a bigger territorial war for the integrity of what we all care(d) about.
These days, the lines are blurred on what is considered ethical to good games; P2W, Alpha/Beta/Early Access, Fresh Start, Perpetual Development Cycles, Kickstarter, F2P/B2P/Subs/Cash Shops.
I don't blame folks for trying to stand firm because it's just another Jenga block to yank by some cog maintaining their professional comfort space. People fear it all coming down. "It's not that serious" is how the extinction of good things gain traction.
The industry is to blame for what's happening BUT I feel like certain folks are complicit because it suits them as well.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
What's stopping me from naming my new 3v3 Basketball game a MMOSports game? Would that make it acceptable for this site as well since as the developer I say it's a MMO?
Nothing. Go ahead. if you think it fits then great. If others don't see it that way "tha'ts the breaks".
If others look at the features, see that it's not for them and move in even bettah.
Ok and let's say my game is vague with media demos like most games in the genre now days. This site promote my game as a MMOSports game. Now let's say you looking for an actual MMOSports game. How would you figure out if my game is a MMOSports game or not?
Well, to expand it to the idea of "what is an mmorpg", since I don't care about monikers and do care about features, I would look at the game, see if it has the features I'm looking for and if it doesn't I would then move on. If it does I would play it.
The thing is, I'm not hung up on names or terms as I fully know that these things change.
You know, when I speak to people about "classical music" I could be fussy about the term because it refers to music that falls between earylish 1700's to earlyish 1800's. Or I can pay attention to what they are really talking about and it's usually just all music of a certain type.
To me an mmorpg is a game like Everquest or Lineage 2 or Lord of the Rings Online. But if someone were to refer to a game that allows a massive amount of people to access it but not necessarily play together then I at least know what they are getting at and can have the discussion.
As I've said numerous times, names/terms change. It's understandable that some people have an issue with this because how often does a word/term change in their lifetimes and forces them to adjust?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
What's stopping me from naming my new 3v3 Basketball game a MMOSports game? Would that make it acceptable for this site as well since as the developer I say it's a MMO?
Nothing. Go ahead. if you think it fits then great. If others don't see it that way "tha'ts the breaks".
If others look at the features, see that it's not for them and move in even bettah.
Ok and let's say my game is vague with media demos like most games in the genre now days. This site promote my game as a MMOSports game. Now let's say you looking for an actual MMOSports game. How would you figure out if my game is a MMOSports game or not?
Well, to expand it to the idea of "what is an mmorpg", since I don't care about monikers and do care about features, I would look at the game, see if it has the features I'm looking for and if it doesn't I would then move on. If it does I would play it.
The thing is, I'm not hung up on names or terms as I fully know that these things change.
You know, when I speak to people about "classical music" I could be fussy about the term because it refers to music that falls between earylish 1700's to earlyish 1800's. Or I can pay attention to what they are really talking about and it's usually just all music of a certain type.
To me an mmorpg is a game like Everquest or Lineage 2 or Lord of the Rings Online. But if someone were to refer to a game that allows a massive amount of people to access it but not necessarily play together then I at least know what they are getting at and can have the discussion.
As I've said numerous times, names/terms change. It's understandable that some people have an issue with this because how often does a word/term change in their lifetimes and forces them to adjust?
The vast majority of people solo in an MMO anyway. Though there never was a "forced group and forced to socialize" in the description of any older MMO. Ultima Online you could solo the entire game if you wanted to (or I did, but I had an OP build) or Asheron's Call was incredible to solo, better soloing than even WoW. Both (were/are) pretty easy to play it just like a singleplayer experience.
Or WoW, I play on a server that is the tiniest server in the whole game on the smallest, least populated server "cluster". Literally might see 1 or 2 people out in the world in a 3-4 hour period. Orgrimmar often has less than 10 people in it. Legion dalaran might have around 15 at peak. It literally is a singleplayer experience.
I guess to some people that means WoW is not an MMO I guess depending on the server one is on
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
I think folks are so protective of standards and what MMOs are because it's real estate in a bigger territorial war for the integrity of what we all care(d) about.
These days, the lines are blurred on what is considered ethical to good games; P2W, Alpha/Beta/Early Access, Fresh Start, Perpetual Development Cycles, Kickstarter, F2P/B2P/Subs/Cash Shops.
I don't blame folks for trying to stand firm because it's just another Jenga block to yank by some cog maintaining their professional comfort space. People fear it all coming down. "It's not that serious" is how the extinction of good things gain traction.
The industry is to blame for what's happening BUT I feel like certain folks are complicit because it suits them as well.
The Industry is most certainly to blame for " What Happened" .. Not "Whats Happening " In the past the did put the MMO label on games in an atepmt to draw from what was at the time a very exploding market ..
Now that the MMORPG genre has setteld back to its roots (in some ways , as indies pave the way again ) And after SOOO many MMO failures that Label of MMO is No longer desired by the Industry on Games that are specifcally known by DEVS/PUBS not to be an ,MMO they no longer want that stigma attached to MMO , and realize that properly labeling there games NOW as Coop/Multi player ..
Just look around look at the devs sites like Destiny 2 for ex ... These games are not being labeled as MMOs .. The problem we have now is an entire generation being brought into the fold thinking games like that are MMOs as they were misrepresented intentionaly by devs for 10 years, as they tried to ppull bigger audiences for there games from the Massivley exploding MMO market ... ..
For example. We don't see the same style games from 1999 as we do now.
Look at RPGs. They started almost entirely as huge open worlds, with massive game length. Even games like Skyrim aren't anything like Daggerfall, the biggest open world game ever...Skyrim is nothing like Morrowind either.
Morrowind isn't even anything like Oblivion either
And then look at Fallout 1/2...vastly different than Fallout 3, NV and even more different is Fallout 4
Which are great examples of them all being RPGs, but very different than older RPGs. But just because they are different doesn't make them not RPGs
What you're describing and what OP is describing is like oil and water my man. Also i dont even know what you're on about. Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim all share a fuck ton of similarities. Just like Witcher 1-3 does. Well maybe not 1, i didn't play it but at least 2-3. They're all RPGs at their core despite the differences.
OP is right, none of those are MMOs, he's most right about Vindictus and Soul Worker. I came in this thread ready to lambast OP thinking he was yet another person going "Why is Diablo 3 and Path of Exile listed on the game list when they're not mmorpgs" when they're clearly labeled as ARPGs...but yea sure enough destiny is an mmofps and vindictus an mmorpg. lol
I'm curious where this goes.
Morrowind is nothing like Skyrim lol. In morrowind, you grinding the skills up (sorta same in oblivion, morrowind is more similar to oblivion in some ways). That makes it really different in itself. Where as Skyrim its a perk tree like Fallout, makes the game really different. But many other changes to.
Though the biggest example I noticed you skipped...
You can't say fallout 1 and 2 are anything like fallout 3, NV which are pretty different than fallout 4.
Fallout 1 and 2 are completely different style RPGs than bethesda's fallout...but they are still RPGs despite them being vastly different.
You're going off-topic. He's saying they're still RPG's. Maybe different features, yes, but still RPG's.
Well, are they? Morrowind? Skyrim? Are they games that encourage Role Play? Do you Role Play a character? You do? THEN YES, they are the SAME GENRE OF GAME.
The OP isn't talking about how game features inside one genre has changed. He's saying there's a lot of games labeled MMO that are not Massive. So in effect they are labeled wrong. He's right. And yes, it's probably marketing. But no one is guarding the term MMO, so really any publishing company can say they're next game is MMO, whether it is or not.
No one is guarding what TV stations say is News either. Which is why a lot of "News" programs are really Opinion Forums.
Gameplay is completely different, making them entirely new types of RPG games. They are still RPGs, but are vastly different from each other. But I see you are focused on the "roleplaying" part which is always the same, but choose to ignore the "gameplay" part because it doesn't fit your agenda. Too bad for you.
Also, lets go to the strategy games. They are all strategic, but all play very differently.
Many strategy games can be a tiny game like leagues of legend. Or it can be a massive 4x game like Europa Universalis, or civilization series, or Total War. Or Supreme Commander for a huge massive rts...or a fast paced zerg based strategy game like starcraft 2. Some strategy games you don't build anything (warhammer RTSs, minus the first warhammer)...some you do.
There can be different types of RPG games. There can be different types of RTS games. From 4x games, to MOBAs, to card games (like hearthstone), to fast paced ones on a much smaller scale (warcraft 3/starcraft 2)...they are all strategy, but nothing alike (well warcraft 3/SC2 are pretty similar). Each of those games can be singleplayer, or played with a a couple people, or a few people or played with a massive amount of people.
However what you choose to ignore, is ...yes...they are all RPGs or all strategy games, but are all vastly different than each other. Therefore, why can there not be MMOs that aren't like other MMOs? They can all still be MMOs, like all strategy games are still strategy games or all roleplaying games...they are just different from each other.
I don't find the game played between Morrowind and. Skyrim to be that significantly different. Yes Skyrim has perks but I still need to grind up my weapon skills to get those perks just like in morrowind. Actually I'm playing Skyrim pretty much the exact same way I played Morrowind. I just find the Skyrim story far far more engaging.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
lol .. i have not been here for a while . and guess what .. another thread about the definition of MMOs.
What the does future entail? That most gamers wouldn't care less of what a MMO is?
There will be no agreement. No consensus. A bunch here will argue till their faces blue what MMO should or should not bet. They will be largely ignored by this site, and most of the gaming world.
And why am I posting here again? I am amused. This is more fun than most MMOs .. oh wait .. most MMOs by the definition of this site.
Good to see you back, while we will never agree on what a MMORPG is, we do agree that this site can't swim against the common usage that pervades the gaming world.
What's stopping me from naming my new 3v3 Basketball game a MMOSports game? Would that make it acceptable for this site as well since as the developer I say it's a MMO?
Nothing. Go ahead. if you think it fits then great. If others don't see it that way "tha'ts the breaks".
If others look at the features, see that it's not for them and move in even bettah.
Ok and let's say my game is vague with media demos like most games in the genre now days. This site promote my game as a MMOSports game. Now let's say you looking for an actual MMOSports game. How would you figure out if my game is a MMOSports game or not?
Well, to expand it to the idea of "what is an mmorpg", since I don't care about monikers and do care about features, I would look at the game, see if it has the features I'm looking for and if it doesn't I would then move on. If it does I would play it.
The thing is, I'm not hung up on names or terms as I fully know that these things change.
You know, when I speak to people about "classical music" I could be fussy about the term because it refers to music that falls between earylish 1700's to earlyish 1800's. Or I can pay attention to what they are really talking about and it's usually just all music of a certain type.
To me an mmorpg is a game like Everquest or Lineage 2 or Lord of the Rings Online. But if someone were to refer to a game that allows a massive amount of people to access it but not necessarily play together then I at least know what they are getting at and can have the discussion.
As I've said numerous times, names/terms change. It's understandable that some people have an issue with this because how often does a word/term change in their lifetimes and forces them to adjust?
The vast majority of people solo in an MMO anyway. Though there never was a "forced group and forced to socialize" in the description of any older MMO. Ultima Online you could solo the entire game if you wanted to (or I did, but I had an OP build) or Asheron's Call was incredible to solo, better soloing than even WoW. Both (were/are) pretty easy to play it just like a singleplayer experience.
Or WoW, I play on a server that is the tiniest server in the whole game on the smallest, least populated server "cluster". Literally might see 1 or 2 people out in the world in a 3-4 hour period. Orgrimmar often has less than 10 people in it. Legion dalaran might have around 15 at peak. It literally is a singleplayer experience.
I guess to some people that means WoW is not an MMO I guess depending on the server one is on
That's true, a lot of people do solo. Part of that is "them" and part of that is the game design.
I would say that an mmorpg is decided on the intent of the game. The idea that someone can meet anyone in the world and then group with/interact with them in some way.
However, if someone kept referring to Diablo 3 as an mmorpg because they could be grouped up with any one of numerous people then, while I don't see it as such, I could at least understand where they are coming from.
Take horror movies. When I was young, horror movies were mostly supernatural, demons, monsters, ghosts, whatever. Now it seems that Torture porn is added to the mix.
I could stand on ceremony and say "those aren't horror movies" but in reality I can see why they are included and just make up my mind to watch something based on my personal taste.
I don't need to challenge the term because in truth it evolved.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
How WoW is a MMO, but LoL is not? Both can handle thousands of players on each server. In LoL people even can talk with each other. Both has multiplayer instances for cooperative and competitive gameplay with limited number of players. Well, WoW has a bigger map for solo gameplay as quests, but this is not related to the MMO part.
Because it has to have more than combat, there has to be more than FEAR you see.
What's stopping me from naming my new 3v3 Basketball game a MMOSports game? Would that make it acceptable for this site as well since as the developer I say it's a MMO?
Nothing. Go ahead. if you think it fits then great. If others don't see it that way "tha'ts the breaks".
If others look at the features, see that it's not for them and move in even bettah.
Ok and let's say my game is vague with media demos like most games in the genre now days. This site promote my game as a MMOSports game. Now let's say you looking for an actual MMOSports game. How would you figure out if my game is a MMOSports game or not?
Well, to expand it to the idea of "what is an mmorpg", since I don't care about monikers and do care about features, I would look at the game, see if it has the features I'm looking for and if it doesn't I would then move on. If it does I would play it.
The thing is, I'm not hung up on names or terms as I fully know that these things change.
You know, when I speak to people about "classical music" I could be fussy about the term because it refers to music that falls between earylish 1700's to earlyish 1800's. Or I can pay attention to what they are really talking about and it's usually just all music of a certain type.
To me an mmorpg is a game like Everquest or Lineage 2 or Lord of the Rings Online. But if someone were to refer to a game that allows a massive amount of people to access it but not necessarily play together then I at least know what they are getting at and can have the discussion.
As I've said numerous times, names/terms change. It's understandable that some people have an issue with this because how often does a word/term change in their lifetimes and forces them to adjust?
The vast majority of people solo in an MMO anyway. Though there never was a "forced group and forced to socialize" in the description of any older MMO. Ultima Online you could solo the entire game if you wanted to (or I did, but I had an OP build) or Asheron's Call was incredible to solo, better soloing than even WoW. Both (were/are) pretty easy to play it just like a singleplayer experience.
Or WoW, I play on a server that is the tiniest server in the whole game on the smallest, least populated server "cluster". Literally might see 1 or 2 people out in the world in a 3-4 hour period. Orgrimmar often has less than 10 people in it. Legion dalaran might have around 15 at peak. It literally is a singleplayer experience.
I guess to some people that means WoW is not an MMO I guess depending on the server one is on
Hmm where to start with this ..
It has nothing to do with what , in your assesment the "vast majority " do , the server technology is set up for it do to a vast number of things with player activity ..
For ex .. i do group "Server" content in every MMO i play near every nite ..
In LOTRO went too the Inn the other nite to enjoy a concert along with , had to be 35-40 players there , some dancing eating dressing ..
Went to another wedding this year in my FC in FF14 was 50 players there ..
Ive been playing UO for 20 years .. everything is not soloable its far from it .. Now maybe everything YOU DID was soloble.. But there is plenty of content for groups in UO.
Let me see the vid of you taking down a Lich Lord Paragon Spawn or soloing a T5 Treasure( i know 1 guy who could mange this , and he would still call me for help at times , and guess what we would still die also ) map.. or raid content .. forget his name tho the big Poison boss in the bottom of one of the dungeons ( takes at least 8), for ex..
And in Wow , you dont seem to grasp that the server tech is set up to allow all these , we have seen vids of City Raids , Weddings , Funerals etc... Just as in all these other games that support Massive Online experience
And in WOW the tech is there for 100 Alliance to sweep into Org at any moment and kill all the NPCS , beasue you play on a small server does not take away the Massive player activity capabilites it is set up to do ..
How WoW is a MMO, but LoL is not? Both can handle thousands of players on each server. In LoL people even can talk with each other. Both has multiplayer instances for cooperative and competitive gameplay with limited number of players. Well, WoW has a bigger map for solo gameplay as quests, but this is not related to the MMO part.
Because it has to have more than combat, there has to be more than FEAR you see.
There are lore, solo quests and achievements in LoL too. So what is the difference?
1. Can you organize a 100+ man raid to demolish your opposition Capitol City
2. Can you organize a concert for 200 players that you compose, play and act in ..
3, Can you set up a Fishing tournament for 500 players
4. can you build a Rune Library (brick by brick) for thousands of players to utilze, or a shopping mall or a Artifact Museum...
5 . Can you and your group be caught in a dire situation in game and some complete random strangers save or hinder you ...
6. Can you organize a 300 player wedding , funeral , cosmetic Clothing Contest ..
etc .. etc .. etc .. the possibilities are endless on a game with Server tech set up to cater to Massive Player activity ...
LOL servers are set up as chat room to link a few players to MOBA game , and you do realize that even RIOT games realize there game is not an MMORPG but a MOBA
How WoW is a MMO, but LoL is not? Both can handle thousands of players on each server. In LoL people even can talk with each other. Both has multiplayer instances for cooperative and competitive gameplay with limited number of players. Well, WoW has a bigger map for solo gameplay as quests, but this is not related to the MMO part.
Because it has to have more than combat, there has to be more than FEAR you see.
There are lore, solo quests and achievements in LoL too. So what is the difference?
1. Can you organize a 100+ man raid to demolish your opposition Capitol City
2. Can you organize a concert for 200 players that you compose, play and act in ..
3, Can you set up a Fishing tournament for 500 players
4. can you build a Rune Library (brick by brick) for thousands of players to utilze, or a shopping mall or a Artifact Museum...
5 . Can you and your group be caught in a dire situation in game and some complete random strangers save or hinder you ...
6. Can you organize a 300 player wedding , funeral , cosmetic Clothing Contest ..
etc .. etc .. etc .. the possibilities are endless on a game with Server tech set up to cater to Massive Player activity ...
LOL servers are set up as chat room to link a few players to MOBA game , and you do realize that even RIOT games realize there game is not an MMORPG but a MOBA
Can you do all these things in WoW? Also that seems like a version of Second life, but not a MMO game. It seems you do not get the difference between game and simulator.
Also I do not claim LoL is a MMO, I claim that WoW is not.
Yes you can doo all those things in Wow except a Rune Library that would be exclusive to UO
Comments
When the phrase was coined by Garriot he was asked to describe UO , And in that he said
"thousands of people interacting and effecting each others experience in a persistent world .."
Which UO was and is .. You can be in Brit and a friend could be getting attacked by reds on the other side of the world say Skara Brae , And you could be called to help ...
Or someone could attempt a lvl5 treasure map near your house and fail at it leaving a bunch of very angry mobs in your area that will have to be dealt with..or soemone holding a fishing contest, a horticultural contest , opening a RUne library or a publi Museum with great Artifacts to go see etc ..Many many intangibles and player induced events all over the Game WORLD can effect your play and activity ..
The same applied to SWG/Anarchy Online /Asherons Call /DAOC etc .. These are the games that DEFINED the MMO genre, and the defined it by delivering the same engaging persistent WORLDS , wether it SWG and your friends Town being attacked on another planet , or a Keep in DAOC , or a World Event in AC , Wars in AO etc..
It was never about How many players you can fit on your screen or in a "ZONE" it was about the WORLD and other players can effect your playtime in a positive/negative/exciting/laughable/shocking way.. at any time from anywhere else in that play world ...
I only care about what an MMORPG is.
MMO has become generic but DO NOT confuse it with a specific genre that NEEDS to maintain it's identity (MMORPG).
You stay sassy!
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Lets play ..One of these Things is not like the Others....
Ultima Online Eve Destiny 2 Star Wars Galaxies
Which one is different and why ...?
If anyone answers Honestly to themselves they know the differences ..they are MANY ..
And I agree, other than when it's used that way it is utterly meaningless especially when people say "It may not be an MMORPG but it's an MMO"... say what?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
What the does future entail? That most gamers wouldn't care less of what a MMO is?
There will be no agreement. No consensus. A bunch here will argue till their faces blue what MMO should or should not bet. They will be largely ignored by this site, and most of the gaming world.
And why am I posting here again? I am amused. This is more fun than most MMOs .. oh wait .. most MMOs by the definition of this site.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
If others look at the features, see that it's not for them and move in even bettah.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Now let's say you looking for an actual MMOSports game. How would you figure out if my game is a MMOSports game or not?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Also, lets go to the strategy games. They are all strategic, but all play very differently.
Many strategy games can be a tiny game like leagues of legend. Or it can be a massive 4x game like Europa Universalis, or civilization series, or Total War. Or Supreme Commander for a huge massive rts...or a fast paced zerg based strategy game like starcraft 2. Some strategy games you don't build anything (warhammer RTSs, minus the first warhammer)...some you do.
There can be different types of RPG games. There can be different types of RTS games. From 4x games, to MOBAs, to card games (like hearthstone), to fast paced ones on a much smaller scale (warcraft 3/starcraft 2)...they are all strategy, but nothing alike (well warcraft 3/SC2 are pretty similar). Each of those games can be singleplayer, or played with a a couple people, or a few people or played with a massive amount of people.
However what you choose to ignore, is ...yes...they are all RPGs or all strategy games, but are all vastly different than each other. Therefore, why can there not be MMOs that aren't like other MMOs? They can all still be MMOs, like all strategy games are still strategy games or all roleplaying games...they are just different from each other.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
These days, the lines are blurred on what is considered ethical to good games; P2W, Alpha/Beta/Early Access, Fresh Start, Perpetual Development Cycles, Kickstarter, F2P/B2P/Subs/Cash Shops.
I don't blame folks for trying to stand firm because it's just another Jenga block to yank by some cog maintaining their professional comfort space. People fear it all coming down. "It's not that serious" is how the extinction of good things gain traction.
The industry is to blame for what's happening BUT I feel like certain folks are complicit because it suits them as well.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The thing is, I'm not hung up on names or terms as I fully know that these things change.
You know, when I speak to people about "classical music" I could be fussy about the term because it refers to music that falls between earylish 1700's to earlyish 1800's. Or I can pay attention to what they are really talking about and it's usually just all music of a certain type.
To me an mmorpg is a game like Everquest or Lineage 2 or Lord of the Rings Online. But if someone were to refer to a game that allows a massive amount of people to access it but not necessarily play together then I at least know what they are getting at and can have the discussion.
As I've said numerous times, names/terms change. It's understandable that some people have an issue with this because how often does a word/term change in their lifetimes and forces them to adjust?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Or WoW, I play on a server that is the tiniest server in the whole game on the smallest, least populated server "cluster". Literally might see 1 or 2 people out in the world in a 3-4 hour period. Orgrimmar often has less than 10 people in it. Legion dalaran might have around 15 at peak. It literally is a singleplayer experience.
I guess to some people that means WoW is not an MMO I guess depending on the server one is on
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
I would say that an mmorpg is decided on the intent of the game. The idea that someone can meet anyone in the world and then group with/interact with them in some way.
However, if someone kept referring to Diablo 3 as an mmorpg because they could be grouped up with any one of numerous people then, while I don't see it as such, I could at least understand where they are coming from.
Take horror movies. When I was young, horror movies were mostly supernatural, demons, monsters, ghosts, whatever. Now it seems that Torture porn is added to the mix.
I could stand on ceremony and say "those aren't horror movies" but in reality I can see why they are included and just make up my mind to watch something based on my personal taste.
I don't need to challenge the term because in truth it evolved.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo