It all boils down to tastes. I prefer slower paced games because I'm a slower paced thinker with slower paced reactions.
See I have the same thing going on, but it's actually made me love more action oriented combat for two reasons.
1. Twitch isn't about just slamming keys and things happening. It's about having proper keybinds, a build that responds to your playstyle, and coming into combat already knowing what to do. Especially if your build does something unexpected and you are well rehearsed in how to use it, you can catch your enemy entirely off-guard.
2. If you are a more tactical player who puts a lot of thought into build, setup etc. it makes you the Mr. Miyagi of action combat games. Any young grasshopper who spends time under your instruction will surpass you by combing your knowledge with quick reflexes. For me, I'm ok with that because it gives me a useful function within a group setting. And it's surprising how few guilds will sit down with their members and truly drill them on how to fight.
To the OP this generation of mmo players need this play style or they get bored. I just went back to the classic mmo's. I refuse to play these so called modern mmo's anymore. So sick and tired of these new games with their action combat and limited hotbars.
@Iselin, don't wanna quote it because your formatting (while helpful) would've created a large quote bubble. :P
I wasn't aware of any changes to the dodge mechanic in ESO, specifically the division of skills like you describe. That's a good move! Thanks for correcting me.
It all boils down to tastes. I prefer slower paced games because I'm a slower paced thinker with slower paced reactions.
See I have the same thing going on, but it's actually made me love more action oriented combat for two reasons.
1. Twitch isn't about just slamming keys and things happening. It's about having proper keybinds, a build that responds to your playstyle, and coming into combat already knowing what to do. Especially if your build does something unexpected and you are well rehearsed in how to use it, you can catch your enemy entirely off-guard.
2. If you are a more tactical player who puts a lot of thought into build, setup etc. it makes you the Mr. Miyagi of action combat games. Any young grasshopper who spends time under your instruction will surpass you by combing your knowledge with quick reflexes. For me, I'm ok with that because it gives me a useful function within a group setting. And it's surprising how few guilds will sit down with their members and truly drill them on how to fight.
I do alright with fast-reaction time games. Not that's it a direct bar of measure, but I average a few gold medals per match in Overwatch, either through objective taking, eliminations, or healing depending upon the hero I'm playing. However, I get my kick of "twitch" style combat from games that are laser-focused on them, such as Overwatch. When I get an urge to do the RPG thing these days, I wanna take a break from that twitch based experience.
To the OP this generation of mmo players need this play style or they get bored. I just went back to the classic mmo's. I refuse to play these so called modern mmo's anymore. So sick and tired of these new games with their action combat and limited hotbars.
I can see how some folks get bored with traditional combat. It has cons, just as action combat does. Same for the skillbar thing, though I prefer larger skillbars as well. I had fun in ESO and GW2, but retrying them recently has proven to be exhausting for me after spending a lotta time playing Deadfire. I'm pining for something much closer to the old cRPG combat systems in an MMORPG these days.
I do alright with fast-reaction time games. Not that's it a direct bar of measure, but I average a few gold medals per match in Overwatch, either through objective taking, eliminations, or healing depending upon the hero I'm playing. However, I get my kick of "twitch" style combat from games that are laser-focused on them, such as Overwatch. When I get an urge to do the RPG thing these days, I wanna take a break from that twitch based experience.
The most important thing for me in an MMO is immersion. I find faster paced and particularly combat that has me aiming (even if there is heavy aim assist) far more immersive than tracking the raid leader and clicking on their targets next to their name as you do in standard tab-target combat systems.
I also find that heavy build customization limited hotbars give makes me able to make my character more my own. The more my character feels like my character, the more I connect with it, and the more immersed I become.
@Iselin, don't wanna quote it because your formatting (while helpful) would've created a large quote bubble. :P
I wasn't aware of any changes to the dodge mechanic in ESO, specifically the division of skills like you describe. That's a good move! Thanks for correcting me.
That's just the latest batch of adjustments. It's something that is constantly in flux and is part of every balancing patch.
ESO has such a humongous number of abilites and item set procs that it's frankly really tough to get a handle on what is blockable, what is dodgeable and what isn't. Dedicated trials tanks usually have a good handle on it but the rest of us just block and or dodge and hope it works
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
To the OP this generation of mmo players need this play style or they get bored. I just went back to the classic mmo's. I refuse to play these so called modern mmo's anymore. So sick and tired of these new games with their action combat and limited hotbars.
Limited hotbars are really a quite old concept. The first game I played with them was the original Guild Wars.
@Iselin, don't wanna quote it because your formatting (while helpful) would've created a large quote bubble. :P
I wasn't aware of any changes to the dodge mechanic in ESO, specifically the division of skills like you describe. That's a good move! Thanks for correcting me.
That's just the latest batch of adjustments. It's something that is constantly in flux and is part of every balancing patch.
ESO has such a humongous number of abilites and item set procs that it's frankly really tough to get a handle on what is blockable, what is dodgeable and what isn't. Dedicated trials tanks usually have a good handle on it but the rest of us just block and or dodge and hope it works
Duly noted! I haven't played it hardcore enough lately to keep up with patch notes, so I wasn't aware of changes in these areas. Thanks for the updated information good sir!
To the OP this generation of mmo players need this play style or they get bored. I just went back to the classic mmo's. I refuse to play these so called modern mmo's anymore. So sick and tired of these new games with their action combat and limited hotbars.
Limited hotbars are really a quite old concept. The first game I played with them was the original Guild Wars.
It's the prevalence of limited bars that coincide with mobile/console ports that create the idea that these limitations are related to controller issues.
However, as you say, there were limited skill bar games long before console and mobile ports became all the rage. I'm not sure I'm comfortable saying that devs don't take porting into consideration when deciding the final skill bar count, but I am comfortable saying that limited skillbars don't, in and of themselves, mean combat will be inferior. I mentioned Overwatch earlier, and if you wanna get technical, all the heroes have "skillbars" with very few skills per hero. It does nothing to destroy the fun or tactical combat.
I will say that larger skillbars create the potential for deeper combat merely due to the slot ceiling. Few MMORPGs have done a great job of utilizing all those skills, WoW being the noted exception recently.
I've come to the conclusion that the action combat MMORPGs aren't for me.
I almost always used mouse targeting in EQ1. I was quite good at it. It was a 'talent' I thought would be useful when I tried action-combat. Wrong! The action-combat games have a propensity of using AoE and PBAoE effects for healing and crowd control actions. At least for me, this removes the need for me to actually switch targets.
Ultimately, games that start piling Area effects on top of targeted DPS are going down a dead-end path in my opinion. You used to get a 'CharX healed you for N' message in chat, which occasionally prompted a 'thank you'. With AoE heals that affect non-party members, that message just goes away, and the opportunity for social interaction is lost. That discourages interaction and pushes the game away from a MMORPG towards a SPWG (Shared Persistent World Game). Basically, the action combat games use of AoE effects actually encourage players to solo, rather than group.
It may be fun. It may be interesting. But if all an action-combat game does is encourage people to play independently, it loses most of the RP elements in the game.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
It's the prevalence of limited bars that coincide with mobile/console ports that create the idea that these limitations are related to controller issues.
However, as you say, there were limited skill bar games long before console and mobile ports became all the rage. I'm not sure I'm comfortable saying that devs don't take porting into consideration when deciding the final skill bar count, but I am comfortable saying that limited skillbars don't, in and of themselves, mean combat will be inferior. I mentioned Overwatch earlier, and if you wanna get technical, all the heroes have "skillbars" with very few skills per hero. It does nothing to destroy the fun or tactical combat.
I will say that larger skillbars create the potential for deeper combat merely due to the slot ceiling. Few MMORPGs have done a great job of utilizing all those skills, WoW being the noted exception recently.
Limited skillbars generally allow for deeper systems in other areas. The original Guild Wars had hundreds of abilities to pick from but you can only run so many at a time. So which if those hundreds of abilities you chose to put in those 8 slots was very important. If you go for a unique build, people will probably have never seen it before.
WoW in contrast, most of your abilities are selected for you. Your build isn't your build. There are plenty of other players running the exact same setup as you even if you go for something more unique. I don't feel like my character is my character in post-skilltree games that run that system and even when there were skilltrees my options were far more limited.
Darkfall (The Original) went with a compromise of these two systems. They had hundreds of abilities and no limited skillbars. In the end, it created a system where veteran characters were the least unique I've ever seen. Eventually everyone trained everything and you could expect any veteran to have all the best skills from every tree. Also juggling that many abilities meant high end gaming mice, gaming keyboards, and macros were a must. Even more so than in other games.
I could agree in theory, but in practice, limited skill bars do nothing to alleviate min/maxing or having the "right" builds. The meta is and always will be a thing, skill-bars slots won't change that. It's a bigger issue than skill bars.
I could agree in theory, but in practice, limited skill bars do nothing to alleviate min/maxing or having the "right" builds. The meta is and always will be a thing, skill-bars slots won't change that. It's a bigger issue than skill bars.
It's not enough on it's own to counter min-maxed FOTM builds that reign supreme. However GW1 had a lot of counters. There absolutely were people who had popular cookie-cutter builds such as touch-rangers etc. but people ran counters to those builds too, and I found my fully custom builds performed perfectly well in PvP due to rarely coming up against a hard counter to my builds.
PvE is easier to min-max but as I've stated other places that an issue with predictability. Predictability in PvE needs to die anyway for several good reasons.
1. Procedural generation has never been easier. 2. It destroys mystery and immersion in game worlds. 3. It's boring.
I could agree in theory, but in practice, limited skill bars do nothing to alleviate min/maxing or having the "right" builds. The meta is and always will be a thing, skill-bars slots won't change that. It's a bigger issue than skill bars.
It's not enough on it's own to counter min-maxed FOTM builds that reign supreme. However GW1 had a lot of counters. There absolutely were people who had popular cookie-cutter builds such as touch-rangers etc. but people ran counters to those builds too, and I found my fully custom builds performed perfectly well in PvP due to rarely coming up against a hard counter to my builds.
PvE is easier to min-max but as I've stated other places that an issue with predictability. Predictability in PvE needs to die anyway for several good reasons.
1. Procedural generation has never been easier. 2. It destroys mystery and immersion in game worlds. 3. It's boring.
Hear, hear on the predictability of PvE. I think that is one of the largest things holding back the "virtual world" aspect of MMORPGs. Right now, it's either empty worlds with the expectation the players will fill it all, or largely static content with mobs that don't appear to have an agenda beyond standing or walking around waiting for players to murder them.
There's got to be an avenue to build and improve on that.
@Iselin, don't wanna quote it because your formatting (while helpful) would've created a large quote bubble. :P
I wasn't aware of any changes to the dodge mechanic in ESO, specifically the division of skills like you describe. That's a good move! Thanks for correcting me.
That's just the latest batch of adjustments. It's something that is constantly in flux and is part of every balancing patch.
ESO has such a humongous number of abilites and item set procs that it's frankly really tough to get a handle on what is blockable, what is dodgeable and what isn't. Dedicated trials tanks usually have a good handle on it but the rest of us just block and or dodge and hope it works
The only thing that I miss as a native function in ESO is the possibility to store/restore skill sets, possibly even linked to gear sets. I'm using addons for that so that switching between tanking, questing, dps, etc... is the matter of two clicks, but I'd rather have an official interface for that.
I've been using SWAPS for a long time but that's just skills not gear. But yeah you'd think a game that is made for changing skills around depending on activity would have something like that built-in.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I've come to the realization today that action combat MMORPGs have run their course for me. Active dodge/block aside, I'm ready to get back to the RPG part of the MMORPG. Action combat seemed like an objective improvement in the beginning, but it's become limiting in terms of the RPG aspect of MMORPGs. With action combat, we've seen a decline in skills being used that aren't "attacks"; control mechanics are largely an afterthought, tacked onto damage-dealing attacks, or almost completely gutted due to the prevalence of AoE in these action combat games. Similarly, debuffing/buffing has been hit hard, being almost completely rolled into attacks of some sort in many action combat MMORPGs.
This has contributed to the homogenization of classes. Now, everyone gets to be DPS, because DPS is so ubiquitous in action combat MMORPGs (due to the aforementioned almost complete focus on damaging attacks and very little to no focus on alternative combat skill usage) that not being able to DPS efficiently means not realistically playable.
As I was playing Deadfire, something struck me: I enjoyed combat much more when I had a multitude of tactical choices available, not just: DPS with some debuffs, DPS with some buffs, DPS with more DPS, DPS that heals when it hits, DPS that prevents healing when hit, DPS that increases subsequent DPS, and finally, DPS that's just regular old DPS.
This may be why I find WoW's current combat system even more satisfying as a decades old tab-target system than I find any of the newer "action combat" titles. My Pally, for example, has numerous non-damage attack options, despite being a Ret (DPS) Paladin.
With action combat, buff durations have been decimated. Now, it's a 10s buff/debuff attached to an attack you spam every 10 seconds to keep the buff/debuff up. GW2 is one of the worst offenders here, going so far as to create an entire meta around stacking these short-duration buffs/debuffs to make entire builds work. However, they aren't the only offender, merely the easiest example for this point.
How do you guys feel? Do you think action combat has been a strict gain for the genre, or do you feel there's been a detrimental trade-off that's fundamentally affected the entire philosophy behind MMORPG combat systems to achieve "action combat"?
Disclaimer: this is obviously an opinion piece. Posts that indicate one thinks I'm speaking in concrete, universal truths will be laughed at and/or trolled.
Action combat is far better, but that in GW2, BDO is not action combat. Compare to Dark Souls or Mount & Blade. As for the buff - short is better in fact if you play with a good buffer. The problem - the holy trinity actually does not exist in the new games.
I hate L2 combat after GoD to similar reasons. The game had a complex system of skills with a lot of customization options. Then there are only damage dealers with premade combos. Which makes the RPG part a dress up game in general.
Why isn't Black Desert Action combat? It's certainly not tab target.
I think we need to move away from the "I don't like "x" therefore it's not part of what I do like or have a very specific definition based on me, which is "Y" type of thinking.
Certainly Dark Souls is far better "action combat" in my opinion as is Mount and Blade. But Black Desert is "action combat".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Honestly the terms "action" and "tab-target" aren't sufficient to describe a combat system for me. There are a lot of details that fall under those umbrellas and hybrids of them that are more important. Most importantly it just depends on the game.
So things like hard-lock and soft-lock, reticule based aiming. Active, skill, and passive dodging. For example you can have tab-targeting in an action oriented combat system, but still require the reticule be aimed properly and the weapon in range of the hitbox. Does it employ free swing? Auto-attack? Does it obey physics and to what degree? FPS fans can tell you there are varying degrees to which physics is implemented. So do arrows follow you around corners? Are skills dumbfire, that is do you select a target launch the magic "rain of arrows" aoe skill and it hits the GTAoE spot you selected?
All those nuances make up the total and it depends on the game for me.
Good points. Seeing as how I still enjoy games like Overwatch and Kingdom Come, I can still get into the action side of combat systems. It's the combination of an action combat direction that's being melded to an RPG gameplay system that gets me here. Consequently, while I enjoy the heck outta swordfighting in Kingdom Come, I don't enjoy wielding a greatsword in GW2 and still having attacks where I have to stand still for several seconds (2nd skill) or dash all willy nilly in an attempt to attack a mob (3rd skill). Those seem very incompatible, the dash less so, but both feel cumbersome in the action combat system featured in GW2.
RPG never meant turn-based gaming and if you are looking for roleplaying the last place you should check for it is in an mmorpg.
I find that witcher, divinity and pillars are solid rpg, its not because they are action rpg, turn-based or pausable or whether you play a character or a group of characters, its caused by feeling immersed in the story in a satisfying fashion.
I can't say I ever been immersed in that fashion in an mmorpg and it has nothing to do with the combat system.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
RPG never meant turn-based gaming and if you are looking for roleplaying the last place you should check for it is in an mmorpg.
I find that witcher, divinity and pillars are solid rpg, its not because they are action rpg, turn-based or pausable or whether you play a character or a group of characters, its caused by feeling immersed in the story in a satisfying fashion.
I can't say I ever been immersed in that fashion in an mmorpg and it has nothing to do with the combat system.
Well yeah, It's hard to immerse when you're talking to an NPC and you get a pop-up message with a random guild invite from Thunderbottom.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
RPG never meant turn-based gaming and if you are looking for roleplaying the last place you should check for it is in an mmorpg.
I find that witcher, divinity and pillars are solid rpg, its not because they are action rpg, turn-based or pausable or whether you play a character or a group of characters, its caused by feeling immersed in the story in a satisfying fashion.
I can't say I ever been immersed in that fashion in an mmorpg and it has nothing to do with the combat system.
I don't remember anyone mentioning turn-based because it's an RPG. Where did that come from?
I've also already addressed the literal interpretation of RPG with Jean. Title's tongue-in-cheek, OP was about the combat systems. Specifically, traditional tab-target and action. Turn-based never really came into play, unless I missed it somewhere.
I miss classes having substantial beneficial buffs. Let me cast dmg shield/regen on the noob I run past. Also let me change the weather with spells again thanks!
I don't think being a RPG depends on the type of combat. RPG is playing the role of a character.
Even back at the time of the "old first big three", UO, AC1 and EQ, you had AC1 with more action oriented combat (you could dodge projectiles and spells) while EQ had heavily level/gear/stats dependent combat.
The title was more tongue in cheek than anything else. But, for example, in most action combat games, you don't miss if your reticle is on target. That is less RPG, more action.
An example of where devs leaned on the action portion to forego adding any RPG systems is active dodge. Active dodge can be used in both tab-target games and action games, and they have far greater potential than what they're being used for now, yet we don't much see them being used uniquely at all. One idea is to have dodge increase a defense during the roll, simulating a character that's harder to hit while dodging. I.e., dodge rolls give you a +40 reflex defense for the duration of the roll. Talents/specs would be able to add additional effects or increase the defensive boon for the roll. This can add some player skill without completely removing RPG systems from that part of combat entirely.
Yet, we don't see this being used even in the action combat games already using dodge to give it extra depth or RPG function; we see devs instead opting for invulnerable frame systems ala Dark Souls. Dodge rolls result in "invulnerability" for the duration of the dodge. That system is pretty standard and, I daresay, fairly lazy, as invulnerable frame dodge systems are pretty common and straightforward systems. Both GW2 and ESO use that system, and neither make it any more interesting than "you can't hit me while I'm dodging!" ESO deviates slightly in that channeled attack aren't dodgeable, but that's pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of the system.
The problem is that games with active dodging sometimes struggle to make it matter even if it's a difference between a 100% chance of getting hit and a 0% chance. If you could dodge a lot and kill mobs without ever getting hit, but it's faster and more effective to just stand there and blast away, then the dodging mechanic is a failure. And if that sometimes happens even when it's a difference between a 100% chance of damage and a 0% chance, making it only have a modest effect would likely turn dodging into little more than an emote.
Action combat doesn't have to mean everyone just spams damage. I like the Spiral Knights model where, if you don't spend a lot of time running around dodging, then you'll instead spend a lot of time watching your character lay there dead.
I also liked the Guild Wars 1 model where everyone does damage, and the real question is, what else do you do? At least before the PVE-only skills, characters who just did damage and nothing else were pretty terrible.
The critical way to make things other than damage matter is to make a strategy of standing there and blasting away fail. You can have the Guild Wars 1 model where various classes can use weakness, blindness, or wards to generally reduce a lot of damage, and interrupts to block the most powerful of the enemy skills. You can also have a model where you have to stop attacking to move a lot, and just get your hits in when there's an opening rather than standing there to spam attacks. Neither of those require action combat; they could also be done in a strictly turn-based game.
Comments
1. Twitch isn't about just slamming keys and things happening. It's about having proper keybinds, a build that responds to your playstyle, and coming into combat already knowing what to do. Especially if your build does something unexpected and you are well rehearsed in how to use it, you can catch your enemy entirely off-guard.
2. If you are a more tactical player who puts a lot of thought into build, setup etc. it makes you the Mr. Miyagi of action combat games. Any young grasshopper who spends time under your instruction will surpass you by combing your knowledge with quick reflexes. For me, I'm ok with that because it gives me a useful function within a group setting. And it's surprising how few guilds will sit down with their members and truly drill them on how to fight.
I wasn't aware of any changes to the dodge mechanic in ESO, specifically the division of skills like you describe. That's a good move! Thanks for correcting me.
I do alright with fast-reaction time games. Not that's it a direct bar of measure, but I average a few gold medals per match in Overwatch, either through objective taking, eliminations, or healing depending upon the hero I'm playing. However, I get my kick of "twitch" style combat from games that are laser-focused on them, such as Overwatch. When I get an urge to do the RPG thing these days, I wanna take a break from that twitch based experience.
I also find that heavy build customization limited hotbars give makes me able to make my character more my own. The more my character feels like my character, the more I connect with it, and the more immersed I become.
ESO has such a humongous number of abilites and item set procs that it's frankly really tough to get a handle on what is blockable, what is dodgeable and what isn't. Dedicated trials tanks usually have a good handle on it but the rest of us just block and or dodge and hope it works
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It's the prevalence of limited bars that coincide with mobile/console ports that create the idea that these limitations are related to controller issues.
However, as you say, there were limited skill bar games long before console and mobile ports became all the rage. I'm not sure I'm comfortable saying that devs don't take porting into consideration when deciding the final skill bar count, but I am comfortable saying that limited skillbars don't, in and of themselves, mean combat will be inferior. I mentioned Overwatch earlier, and if you wanna get technical, all the heroes have "skillbars" with very few skills per hero. It does nothing to destroy the fun or tactical combat.
I will say that larger skillbars create the potential for deeper combat merely due to the slot ceiling. Few MMORPGs have done a great job of utilizing all those skills, WoW being the noted exception recently.
I almost always used mouse targeting in EQ1. I was quite good at it. It was a 'talent' I thought would be useful when I tried action-combat. Wrong! The action-combat games have a propensity of using AoE and PBAoE effects for healing and crowd control actions. At least for me, this removes the need for me to actually switch targets.
Ultimately, games that start piling Area effects on top of targeted DPS are going down a dead-end path in my opinion. You used to get a 'CharX healed you for N' message in chat, which occasionally prompted a 'thank you'. With AoE heals that affect non-party members, that message just goes away, and the opportunity for social interaction is lost. That discourages interaction and pushes the game away from a MMORPG towards a SPWG (Shared Persistent World Game). Basically, the action combat games use of AoE effects actually encourage players to solo, rather than group.
It may be fun. It may be interesting. But if all an action-combat game does is encourage people to play independently, it loses most of the RP elements in the game.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
WoW in contrast, most of your abilities are selected for you. Your build isn't your build. There are plenty of other players running the exact same setup as you even if you go for something more unique. I don't feel like my character is my character in post-skilltree games that run that system and even when there were skilltrees my options were far more limited.
Darkfall (The Original) went with a compromise of these two systems. They had hundreds of abilities and no limited skillbars. In the end, it created a system where veteran characters were the least unique I've ever seen. Eventually everyone trained everything and you could expect any veteran to have all the best skills from every tree. Also juggling that many abilities meant high end gaming mice, gaming keyboards, and macros were a must. Even more so than in other games.
PvE is easier to min-max but as I've stated other places that an issue with predictability. Predictability in PvE needs to die anyway for several good reasons.
1. Procedural generation has never been easier.
2. It destroys mystery and immersion in game worlds.
3. It's boring.
There's got to be an avenue to build and improve on that.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I find that witcher, divinity and pillars are solid rpg, its not because they are action rpg, turn-based or pausable or whether you play a character or a group of characters, its caused by feeling immersed in the story in a satisfying fashion.
I can't say I ever been immersed in that fashion in an mmorpg and it has nothing to do with the combat system.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I've also already addressed the literal interpretation of RPG with Jean. Title's tongue-in-cheek, OP was about the combat systems. Specifically, traditional tab-target and action. Turn-based never really came into play, unless I missed it somewhere.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I also liked the Guild Wars 1 model where everyone does damage, and the real question is, what else do you do? At least before the PVE-only skills, characters who just did damage and nothing else were pretty terrible.
The critical way to make things other than damage matter is to make a strategy of standing there and blasting away fail. You can have the Guild Wars 1 model where various classes can use weakness, blindness, or wards to generally reduce a lot of damage, and interrupts to block the most powerful of the enemy skills. You can also have a model where you have to stop attacking to move a lot, and just get your hits in when there's an opening rather than standing there to spam attacks. Neither of those require action combat; they could also be done in a strictly turn-based game.