Neowiz are doing some more combat changes in today's patch

AnnaTS

Modified classes’ skill balance. 
[Guardian]

• [Shield Upper Swing] Modified cooldown time from 0 seconds to 15 seconds.
  
• [Draw Sword] Modified cooldown time from 7 seconds to 30 seconds.

[Berserker]

• 10% increase in the amount of [Anger] gained in each Last Chain Skill.
  - Modified [Rampage Tactic] stance -> [Assault] skill’s cooldown time from 20 seconds to 10 seconds.

[Ranger]

• Modifications to [Steady Concentration] non-stance skill
  - Decreased cooldown time from 60 seconds to 30 seconds
  - Decreased Enhanced Attack’s cooldown time from 60 seconds to 40 seconds
  - Decreased Enhanced Fatal Hit’s cooldown time from 100 seconds to 40 seconds
  - Decreased Enhanced Dodge’s cooldown time from 120 seconds to 50 seconds
  
• Modifications to [Dodge Move] non-stance skill
  - Decreased Enhanced Attack’s cooldown time from 80 seconds to 40 seconds
  - Decreased Enhanced Fatal Hit’s cooldown time from 120 seconds to 45 seconds
  - Decreased Enhanced Dodge’s cooldown time from 100 seconds to 50 seconds
  
• Modified allowed Chain Bonus’ effective time from 2 seconds to 5 seconds

[Mage]

• [Cold Tactic] stance > second starting skill [Biting Cold] 
  - Increased cooldown time from 0 seconds to 7 seconds
  
• [Atmospheric Tactic] stance > second starting skills [Thunderbolt]
  - Increased cooldown time from 0 seconds to 7 seconds

https://steamcommunity.com/games/681660/announcements/detail/1653264683503492995

AnnaTS

They are also lowering the HP of mobs.

Decreased some field / low level dungeon monsters’ HP. Different modifications were made to each monster grade according to their level.
- Field NPC HP reduction (mobs under skilled grade)

• Level 1-15: HP -30%
  
• Level 16-40: HP -25%
  
• Over Level 41: HP -20%

- Dungeon NPC HP reduction

• HP -20% (applied to all monsters)
  - Target dungeons: Guiscard Hideout, Sleeping Scale Remains, Balmont Dungeon, Mausoleum of the Wise Ones

Alpius

Lowering the HP a bit is really going to help on the PVE side of things, and glad to see their giving some love to rangers who got screwed pretty bad with the dmg reduction.

Also this is going to happen soon:
"The higher the hit rating, the less “misses” there will be. As this is dependent on the player, the current rule will not be modified. However, as dodge, resist, and immune are defenses on the side of the enemy, they will no longer break Chain Bonuses as there is nothing you can do attack-wise that will prevent the chain from breaking. This patch will soon be applied."

Not breaking the chain is what I am really looking forward to.

Albatroes

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Orinori

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

Albatroes

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

If you're talking about vanilla days? Sure. Making it to live in the past like 5 years? Not likely. Then again they do proper alpha/beta testing without asking for money so....

Orinori

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

If you're talking about vanilla days? Sure. Making it to live in the past like 5 years? Not likely. Then again they do proper alpha/beta testing without asking for money so....

So you are saying that after 9 years of being live and having made billions, they could finally do proper testing without asking for money? who would have thought!

Mikeha

"Modified allowed Chain Bonus’ effective time from 2 seconds to 5 seconds"



This is going to help my Ranger so much. 

Albatroes

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

If you're talking about vanilla days? Sure. Making it to live in the past like 5 years? Not likely. Then again they do proper alpha/beta testing without asking for money so....

So you are saying that after 9 years of being live and having made billions, they could finally do proper testing without asking for money? who would have thought!

You can't be this dense, they've never done paid alpha/beta testing, even before vanilla went live also the game is 13 years old now, so yeah, who would've thought.

Now I will honestly say that Neowiz is responding to this faster than say SE with FFXIV which has been known to leave classes to pretty much rot until another expansion (usually released every 2 years), even though they have been trying to respond quicker with minor class 'tweeks' almost every patch (every 3 months). That being said, SE doesn't invest into proper testing either and they make billions, so I dont mind if you jump down their throat.

You're seriously going to defend paid alpha/beta testing, lol? Its not like Neowiz is some kind of indie development team. They've invested 60M into this title, which is obvious at this point where it all went into which is obviously not proper testing.

Orinori

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

If you're talking about vanilla days? Sure. Making it to live in the past like 5 years? Not likely. Then again they do proper alpha/beta testing without asking for money so....

So you are saying that after 9 years of being live and having made billions, they could finally do proper testing without asking for money? who would have thought!

You can't be this dense, they've never done paid alpha/beta testing, even before vanilla went live also the game is 13 years old now, so yeah, who would've thought.

Yes I guess they did very little testing which is why it was one of the worst MMO launches in history with all sorts of balance issues! Stupid incompetent devs.

Albatroes said:

You're seriously going to defend paid alpha/beta testing, lol? Its not like Neowiz is some kind of indie development team. They've invested 60M into this title, which is obvious at this point where it all went into which is obviously not proper testing.

I will defend anything that is free market yes. Don't like? Don't pay. 

Albatroes

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

If you're talking about vanilla days? Sure. Making it to live in the past like 5 years? Not likely. Then again they do proper alpha/beta testing without asking for money so....

So you are saying that after 9 years of being live and having made billions, they could finally do proper testing without asking for money? who would have thought!

You can't be this dense, they've never done paid alpha/beta testing, even before vanilla went live also the game is 13 years old now, so yeah, who would've thought.

Yes I guess they did very little testing which is why it was one of the worst MMO launches in history with all sorts of balance issues! Stupid incompetent devs.

Albatroes said:

You're seriously going to defend paid alpha/beta testing, lol? Its not like Neowiz is some kind of indie development team. They've invested 60M into this title, which is obvious at this point where it all went into which is obviously not proper testing.

I will defend anything that is free market yes. Don't like? Don't pay. 

How can you compare 2 thinks in a business that are a decade apart? Someone who's actually been involved in WoW's alpha/beta testing since the beginning can probably attest to this better than I can but I would say that they were in the testing phase of the game for at least a year. Of course vanilla was horribly imbalanced, mainly because there was little to compare balance to in the beginning of its era. WoW could've look to something like FFXI which was 3 years older because 1) FFXI didn't even have pvp at that time, 2) it embraced imbalance mainly because a single character could play every class in the game, so if they didn't like a class's performance, they could simply switch to something else with little impact on overall progression.

There's little to no excuse for a development team not to be made aware of the on-goings in the market they are trying to engage in, especially in the last 5 years with how over-saturated the market is.

As for defending a "free market," that's a perfectly fair assessment from a business perspective, but unless you're invested in these companies in some way-shape-form, it only hurts you as a consumer when you do decide to partake in whatever they are selling. Just because people can make money off of idiots doesn't mean they should. Its like telemarketers taking advantage of elderly people and getting them involved in things they can't afford.

Mikeha

Mikeha said:

"Modified allowed Chain Bonus’ effective time from 2 seconds to 5 seconds"



This is going to help my Ranger so much. 

Just tested this in game and it works so well. Now I can use a skill and instead of having only 2 seconds to use the next for my combo to keep going I know have 5 seconds which gives me time to move around a lot more before using the next skill. 

Orinori

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

If you're talking about vanilla days? Sure. Making it to live in the past like 5 years? Not likely. Then again they do proper alpha/beta testing without asking for money so....

So you are saying that after 9 years of being live and having made billions, they could finally do proper testing without asking for money? who would have thought!

You can't be this dense, they've never done paid alpha/beta testing, even before vanilla went live also the game is 13 years old now, so yeah, who would've thought.

Yes I guess they did very little testing which is why it was one of the worst MMO launches in history with all sorts of balance issues! Stupid incompetent devs.

Albatroes said:

You're seriously going to defend paid alpha/beta testing, lol? Its not like Neowiz is some kind of indie development team. They've invested 60M into this title, which is obvious at this point where it all went into which is obviously not proper testing.

I will defend anything that is free market yes. Don't like? Don't pay. 

How can you compare 2 thinks in a business that are a decade apart? Someone who's actually been involved in WoW's alpha/beta testing since the beginning can probably attest to this better than I can but I would say that they were in the testing phase of the game for at least a year. Of course vanilla was horribly imbalanced, mainly because there was little to compare balance to in the beginning of its era. WoW could've look to something like FFXI which was 3 years older because 1) FFXI didn't even have pvp at that time, 2) it embraced imbalance mainly because a single character could play every class in the game, so if they didn't like a class's performance, they could simply switch to something else with little impact on overall progression.

There's little to no excuse for a development team not to be made aware of the on-goings in the market they are trying to engage in, especially in the last 5 years with how over-saturated the market is.

As for defending a "free market," that's a perfectly fair assessment from a business perspective, but unless you're invested in these companies in some way-shape-form, it only hurts you as a consumer when you do decide to partake in whatever they are selling. Just because people can make money off of idiots doesn't mean they should. Its like telemarketers taking advantage of elderly people and getting them involved in things they can't afford.

There were plenty of MMO's with pvp, UO being one of the first and most obvious. This has nothing to do with the team being unaware, Bless has been in testing phases, proper ones. This is a different version, the western version of that game that has struggled. There isn't an endless supply of money. People are free to see what the game is and play or not, plenty are having fun and the game has nothing in connection with telemarketers and old folks, now you are trying to branch into ethics and tell people that it is unethical to buy Bless because 'you don't like it'. Give me a break.

Once again with the over the top melodramatic horse shite.

Theocritus

It just sounds like this released way too early.

Orinori

DMKano said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

If you're talking about vanilla days? Sure. Making it to live in the past like 5 years? Not likely. Then again they do proper alpha/beta testing without asking for money so....

So you are saying that after 9 years of being live and having made billions, they could finally do proper testing without asking for money? who would have thought!

You can't be this dense, they've never done paid alpha/beta testing, even before vanilla went live also the game is 13 years old now, so yeah, who would've thought.

Yes I guess they did very little testing which is why it was one of the worst MMO launches in history with all sorts of balance issues! Stupid incompetent devs.

Albatroes said:

You're seriously going to defend paid alpha/beta testing, lol? Its not like Neowiz is some kind of indie development team. They've invested 60M into this title, which is obvious at this point where it all went into which is obviously not proper testing.

I will defend anything that is free market yes. Don't like? Don't pay. 

The original devs who made Bless are gone, Neowiz hired noob devs over a year ago and tasked them with rework + Steam launch.

Needless to say - Neowiz has not self-published a MMO before, especially in the west + noob devs who are new to MMOs = disaster

Well I am not trying to convince anyone its the most amazing thing in the world ever. I am just asking for people to judge it reasonably without all the over the top BS. I don't see a disaster, when I think of disaster I tend to think of something like The Repopulation or Greed Monger. Maybe it's just because I think themeparks as a genre are extremely lacking and lazy design to begin with.

Mikeha

More changes are still coming. 

https://steamcommunity.com/games/681660/announcements/detail/1653264683502764921

Future Update Plan

1. Ranger Balance Patch
   We will be applying patch v1.0.0.8, which reduces the Ranger’s utilities’ cooldown time. We are also aware that there are additional issues, and we plan to fix these in an additional patch as adjusting the Ranger class is a high priority right now.
   
   
2. Other Classes’ Balance Patches
   Balance modifications will not end with just this patch. We plan to continue with other class balances in stages.
   
   
3. Patch regarding the conditions that cuts off the Chain Bonus
   The Chain Bonus cuts off in the following situations:
   
   NOW

   AFTER CHAIN BONUS PATCH

   miss, dodge, resist, immune

   miss
   
   The higher the hit rating, the less “misses” there will be. As this is dependent on the player, the current rule will not be modified. However, as dodge, resist, and immune are defenses on the side of the enemy, they will no longer break Chain Bonuses as there is nothing you can do attack-wise that will prevent the chain from breaking. This patch will soon be applied.
   
   
4. Action Targeting Mode
   Lastly, I present to you our plans for the action targeting mode. During the development process, we found that we cannot guarantee optimal control of the action targeting mode for all classes, except for the Berserker. We plan to make it possible for other classes to use action targeting as soon as we solve these gameplay problems (except for the Paladin class which will only have tab-targeting). However, this adjustment is currently pushed back as we are focusing on stabilization and balance. We will provide you with more information once we have determined a time frame for the action targeting mode update.

Octagon7711

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

If you're talking about vanilla days? Sure. Making it to live in the past like 5 years? Not likely. Then again they do proper alpha/beta testing without asking for money so....

So you are saying that after 9 years of being live and having made billions, they could finally do proper testing without asking for money? who would have thought!

People are sounding like it's the same team that worked on the game for the nine years or so it's been around.  This was handed off to a new team who basically did their own thing with the core elements provided.  As many people know people don't like to talk to other people because it becomes a territorial thing. 

So maybe the teams in different countries had a few meetings for orientation and were then left to figure stuff out on their own or for whatever reason didn't ask for additional help, or had a few people transfer over to help that were busy with the cash shop, I can't say for sure but that''s how it looks.

Orinori

DMKano said:

Orinori said:

DMKano said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

If you're talking about vanilla days? Sure. Making it to live in the past like 5 years? Not likely. Then again they do proper alpha/beta testing without asking for money so....

So you are saying that after 9 years of being live and having made billions, they could finally do proper testing without asking for money? who would have thought!

You can't be this dense, they've never done paid alpha/beta testing, even before vanilla went live also the game is 13 years old now, so yeah, who would've thought.

Yes I guess they did very little testing which is why it was one of the worst MMO launches in history with all sorts of balance issues! Stupid incompetent devs.

Albatroes said:

You're seriously going to defend paid alpha/beta testing, lol? Its not like Neowiz is some kind of indie development team. They've invested 60M into this title, which is obvious at this point where it all went into which is obviously not proper testing.

I will defend anything that is free market yes. Don't like? Don't pay. 

The original devs who made Bless are gone, Neowiz hired noob devs over a year ago and tasked them with rework + Steam launch.

Needless to say - Neowiz has not self-published a MMO before, especially in the west + noob devs who are new to MMOs = disaster

Well I am not trying to convince anyone its the most amazing thing in the world ever. I am just asking for people to judge it reasonably without all the over the top BS. I don't see a disaster, when I think of disaster I tend to think of something like The Repopulation or Greed Monger. Maybe it's just because I think themeparks as a genre are extremely lacking and lazy design to begin with.

For a game that has failed multiple times in multiple regions - to launch in the state Bless did:

- Horrible optimization with wrong .ini settings
- 5 year old dupe bug
- Google translate localization so bad people were quitting in the tutorial
- Guilds/Players split due to server locks and last minute additions
- Only zerker has action mode - missing on all other classes
- No QA team to test changes
- Almost non-existent customer service
- Disabled high/end game content
- Broken combat skills

And the soon after launch - the patch that broke PvE by a huge damage nerf making progress impossible.

This is not a disaster to you? 

You know it's bad when Steam was offering refunds past their standard 2 hours played time - that right there should tell you how bad the launch was.

- Horrible optimization - completely normal around launch

- 5 year old dupe bug - oversight resulting from localisation and lack of QA. Fixed within a couple of days and never became an issue effecting the gameplay. 

- Google translate localization so bad people were quitting in the tutorial - find this hard to believe as I didn't see any issue with the translation at all, but then again I didn't start playing until Sunday so at worst...fixed, at best....more exaggeration.

- Guilds/Players split due to server locks and last minute additions - Wait are you saying they split the people who were already on servers onto different servers? Or just that they added new servers because the others were full? because the second option is a none issue.

- Only zerker has action mode - missing on all other classes - So what?

- No QA team to test changes - If there was it was probably pretty small, not great. Obviously a finance call, who knows, perhaps there was no other viable choice. But it is clear this is why they said 6 month roll out to smooth out changes and gave it the Early Access warning.

- Almost non-existent customer service - I don't know anything about it, not sure if this is something I would even include in the total disaster list for a launch, pretty sure they will be swamped right now like any other launch.

- Disabled high/end game content - This annoys me, it is not disabled as if you had some right to it. It is either not ready yet or part of the roll out plan to keep folks interested in playing as time moves on / or both. I don't think it is Neowiz' fault that you expected the full version that Japan have on day one of EA.

- Broken combat skills - Either fixed or being adjusted, has it even been a week yet?



No, this is not a disaster to me, as I already said, Greed Monger and The Repopulation were a disaster. This is just normal chaos of a launch that I have seen in almost every MMORPG launch.

IceDark

DMKano said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

If you're talking about vanilla days? Sure. Making it to live in the past like 5 years? Not likely. Then again they do proper alpha/beta testing without asking for money so....

So you are saying that after 9 years of being live and having made billions, they could finally do proper testing without asking for money? who would have thought!

You can't be this dense, they've never done paid alpha/beta testing, even before vanilla went live also the game is 13 years old now, so yeah, who would've thought.

Yes I guess they did very little testing which is why it was one of the worst MMO launches in history with all sorts of balance issues! Stupid incompetent devs.

Albatroes said:

You're seriously going to defend paid alpha/beta testing, lol? Its not like Neowiz is some kind of indie development team. They've invested 60M into this title, which is obvious at this point where it all went into which is obviously not proper testing.

I will defend anything that is free market yes. Don't like? Don't pay. 

BTW these changes are far from enough - most classes are still in a really bad state.

His talking from his crying point of view by the way. Don't take him too serious.

Mikeha

The game is in Early Access. Its not suppose to launch for another month or 2 from what I have heard. 

Panther2103

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

If you're talking about vanilla days? Sure. Making it to live in the past like 5 years? Not likely. Then again they do proper alpha/beta testing without asking for money so....

I remember when there was a bug with a paladin skill (in BC I think?) allowing stacks to build endlessly on a damage increase, which led to people one shotting raid bosses. Even with testing sometimes people don't find the bugs. It is a bit odd to me there isn't a PTS or some form of QA team to test everything out in Bless. 

Octagon7711

From what others have said, even if the game were working properly it would be an average game at best with nothing really standing out about it.  Which means they are now working hard to bring the game up to an average level of game play.  Time will tell I guess.  I first wrote off ESO when they launched and they managed to resurrect that game so hopefully this company can do the same with Bless and it won't end up another Wild Star.

Mikeha

DMKano said:

Mikeha said:

The game is in Early Access. Its not suppose to launch for another month or 2 from what I have heard. 

Bless doesn't even qualify for early access by Steam's definition:

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/earlyaccess

"Steam Early Access enables you to sell your game on Steam while it is still being developed, and provide context to customers that a product should be considered "unfinished." Early Access is a place for games that are in a playable alpha or beta state, are worth the current value of the playable build, and that you plan to continue to develop for release."


Bless is not in Alpha nor Beta - alpha and beta tests do a player wipe after completion

Neowiz has clearly stated that Steam Bless will NOT have any future player wipes - which means it's launched, it also means that it is not in Alpha nor Beta and does not meet criteria for Early Access.


Did ESO, WoW, Rift, Aion, GW2, Diablo 3, Age of Conan, DAoC and basically every major MMORPG in history do a wipe at the end of alpha/beta and before launch?

yes they did

Bless again is not doing a wipe at any point - it is not in Alpha nor Beta - the game has been already launched as a "final" version in other regions. 

It's pretty obvious that this is not an Early Access game by Steam's definition.

STEAM did not make the game. Neowiz did so if THEY say Early Access then thats what I go in expecting. That why I am totally fine with the changes and updates because I went in expecting them. 

Vorthanion

Orinori said:

DMKano said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

If you're talking about vanilla days? Sure. Making it to live in the past like 5 years? Not likely. Then again they do proper alpha/beta testing without asking for money so....

So you are saying that after 9 years of being live and having made billions, they could finally do proper testing without asking for money? who would have thought!

You can't be this dense, they've never done paid alpha/beta testing, even before vanilla went live also the game is 13 years old now, so yeah, who would've thought.

Yes I guess they did very little testing which is why it was one of the worst MMO launches in history with all sorts of balance issues! Stupid incompetent devs.

Albatroes said:

You're seriously going to defend paid alpha/beta testing, lol? Its not like Neowiz is some kind of indie development team. They've invested 60M into this title, which is obvious at this point where it all went into which is obviously not proper testing.

I will defend anything that is free market yes. Don't like? Don't pay. 

The original devs who made Bless are gone, Neowiz hired noob devs over a year ago and tasked them with rework + Steam launch.

Needless to say - Neowiz has not self-published a MMO before, especially in the west + noob devs who are new to MMOs = disaster

Well I am not trying to convince anyone its the most amazing thing in the world ever. I am just asking for people to judge it reasonably without all the over the top BS. I don't see a disaster, when I think of disaster I tend to think of something like The Repopulation or Greed Monger. Maybe it's just because I think themeparks as a genre are extremely lacking and lazy design to begin with.

People judge things based on their own experiences and perceptions.  To expect them to see things your way is ridiculous.  The old saying is quite apt in this regard:  "One man's treasure is another man's junk".

Vorthanion

Orinori said:

DMKano said:

Orinori said:

DMKano said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

If you're talking about vanilla days? Sure. Making it to live in the past like 5 years? Not likely. Then again they do proper alpha/beta testing without asking for money so....

So you are saying that after 9 years of being live and having made billions, they could finally do proper testing without asking for money? who would have thought!

You can't be this dense, they've never done paid alpha/beta testing, even before vanilla went live also the game is 13 years old now, so yeah, who would've thought.

Yes I guess they did very little testing which is why it was one of the worst MMO launches in history with all sorts of balance issues! Stupid incompetent devs.

Albatroes said:

You're seriously going to defend paid alpha/beta testing, lol? Its not like Neowiz is some kind of indie development team. They've invested 60M into this title, which is obvious at this point where it all went into which is obviously not proper testing.

I will defend anything that is free market yes. Don't like? Don't pay. 

The original devs who made Bless are gone, Neowiz hired noob devs over a year ago and tasked them with rework + Steam launch.

Needless to say - Neowiz has not self-published a MMO before, especially in the west + noob devs who are new to MMOs = disaster

Well I am not trying to convince anyone its the most amazing thing in the world ever. I am just asking for people to judge it reasonably without all the over the top BS. I don't see a disaster, when I think of disaster I tend to think of something like The Repopulation or Greed Monger. Maybe it's just because I think themeparks as a genre are extremely lacking and lazy design to begin with.

For a game that has failed multiple times in multiple regions - to launch in the state Bless did:

- Horrible optimization with wrong .ini settings
- 5 year old dupe bug
- Google translate localization so bad people were quitting in the tutorial
- Guilds/Players split due to server locks and last minute additions
- Only zerker has action mode - missing on all other classes
- No QA team to test changes
- Almost non-existent customer service
- Disabled high/end game content
- Broken combat skills

And the soon after launch - the patch that broke PvE by a huge damage nerf making progress impossible.

This is not a disaster to you? 

You know it's bad when Steam was offering refunds past their standard 2 hours played time - that right there should tell you how bad the launch was.

- Horrible optimization - completely normal around launch

- 5 year old dupe bug - oversight resulting from localisation and lack of QA. Fixed within a couple of days and never became an issue effecting the gameplay. 

- Google translate localization so bad people were quitting in the tutorial - find this hard to believe as I didn't see any issue with the translation at all, but then again I didn't start playing until Sunday so at worst...fixed, at best....more exaggeration.

- Guilds/Players split due to server locks and last minute additions - Wait are you saying they split the people who were already on servers onto different servers? Or just that they added new servers because the others were full? because the second option is a none issue.

- Only zerker has action mode - missing on all other classes - So what?

- No QA team to test changes - If there was it was probably pretty small, not great. Obviously a finance call, who knows, perhaps there was no other viable choice. But it is clear this is why they said 6 month roll out to smooth out changes and gave it the Early Access warning.

- Almost non-existent customer service - I don't know anything about it, not sure if this is something I would even include in the total disaster list for a launch, pretty sure they will be swamped right now like any other launch.

- Disabled high/end game content - This annoys me, it is not disabled as if you had some right to it. It is either not ready yet or part of the roll out plan to keep folks interested in playing as time moves on / or both. I don't think it is Neowiz' fault that you expected the full version that Japan have on day one of EA.

- Broken combat skills - Either fixed or being adjusted, has it even been a week yet?



No, this is not a disaster to me, as I already said, Greed Monger and The Repopulation were a disaster. This is just normal chaos of a launch that I have seen in almost every MMORPG launch.

As a potential customer, I don't care about company goals, deadlines, logistics, manpower or any other factors that affect the product.  What I expect is a fully realized and complete product as promised and set by the product description and advertising.  If I were the only customer to feel this way, previous MMO launches wouldn't have failed and they deserved to fail.  These companies have to earn their money, just like we do.  They failed in two other markets and still haven't learned their lesson.

Orinori

DMKano said:

Orinori said:

DMKano said:

Orinori said:

DMKano said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Orinori said:

Albatroes said:

Its baffling that they would've had 0 cd on that many things in the first place. Regardless of how anyone feels about the game, one has to admit that this is pretty incompetent, especially given how long the game has been out in general. These are things that honestly should've been taken care of long before the thought of "releasing" should've been in mind.

Also they need to do something about diminishing returns because as I've seen things and people complaining about combat before the changes, people are still gonna get stun-locked regardless of their being cds or not, so there needs to be immunities put in place outside of class-break specific ones. Imagine if a paladin's stun in wow didn't have diminishing returns? People would freaking riot being constantly stunned for 5-6 seconds.

Pretty sure stuff use to happen like that in WoW. I know Shaman use to one shot people, that was fun. Stupid incompetent devs.

If you're talking about vanilla days? Sure. Making it to live in the past like 5 years? Not likely. Then again they do proper alpha/beta testing without asking for money so....

So you are saying that after 9 years of being live and having made billions, they could finally do proper testing without asking for money? who would have thought!

You can't be this dense, they've never done paid alpha/beta testing, even before vanilla went live also the game is 13 years old now, so yeah, who would've thought.

Yes I guess they did very little testing which is why it was one of the worst MMO launches in history with all sorts of balance issues! Stupid incompetent devs.

Albatroes said:

You're seriously going to defend paid alpha/beta testing, lol? Its not like Neowiz is some kind of indie development team. They've invested 60M into this title, which is obvious at this point where it all went into which is obviously not proper testing.

I will defend anything that is free market yes. Don't like? Don't pay. 

The original devs who made Bless are gone, Neowiz hired noob devs over a year ago and tasked them with rework + Steam launch.

Needless to say - Neowiz has not self-published a MMO before, especially in the west + noob devs who are new to MMOs = disaster

Well I am not trying to convince anyone its the most amazing thing in the world ever. I am just asking for people to judge it reasonably without all the over the top BS. I don't see a disaster, when I think of disaster I tend to think of something like The Repopulation or Greed Monger. Maybe it's just because I think themeparks as a genre are extremely lacking and lazy design to begin with.

For a game that has failed multiple times in multiple regions - to launch in the state Bless did:

- Horrible optimization with wrong .ini settings
- 5 year old dupe bug
- Google translate localization so bad people were quitting in the tutorial
- Guilds/Players split due to server locks and last minute additions
- Only zerker has action mode - missing on all other classes
- No QA team to test changes
- Almost non-existent customer service
- Disabled high/end game content
- Broken combat skills

And the soon after launch - the patch that broke PvE by a huge damage nerf making progress impossible.

This is not a disaster to you? 

You know it's bad when Steam was offering refunds past their standard 2 hours played time - that right there should tell you how bad the launch was.

- Horrible optimization - completely normal around launch

- 5 year old dupe bug - oversight resulting from localisation and lack of QA. Fixed within a couple of days and never became an issue effecting the gameplay. 

- Google translate localization so bad people were quitting in the tutorial - find this hard to believe as I didn't see any issue with the translation at all, but then again I didn't start playing until Sunday so at worst...fixed, at best....more exaggeration.

- Guilds/Players split due to server locks and last minute additions - Wait are you saying they split the people who were already on servers onto different servers? Or just that they added new servers because the others were full? because the second option is a none issue.

- Only zerker has action mode - missing on all other classes - So what?

- No QA team to test changes - If there was it was probably pretty small, not great. Obviously a finance call, who knows, perhaps there was no other viable choice. But it is clear this is why they said 6 month roll out to smooth out changes and gave it the Early Access warning.

- Almost non-existent customer service - I don't know anything about it, not sure if this is something I would even include in the total disaster list for a launch, pretty sure they will be swamped right now like any other launch.

- Disabled high/end game content - This annoys me, it is not disabled as if you had some right to it. It is either not ready yet or part of the roll out plan to keep folks interested in playing as time moves on / or both. I don't think it is Neowiz' fault that you expected the full version that Japan have on day one of EA.

- Broken combat skills - Either fixed or being adjusted, has it even been a week yet?



No, this is not a disaster to me, as I already said, Greed Monger and The Repopulation were a disaster. This is just normal chaos of a launch that I have seen in almost every MMORPG launch.

This is far from normal launch.

GW2 and Rift was a normal launch for example - those are great example of an actual Normal launch should be like.

Use those as "normal" - didn't have optimization issues, no dupe bugs, ample server capacity, properly tested, functional classes and combat etc...

Not sure what you are using as "normal" - but it's not Bless

So now you want to use abnormal smooth launches as normal...OK!

Maybe we just played different games, because every single MMO I played at launch was really f'ed up for at least a month.