Children don't value their time and progression the same way as most adults do, hence the popularity of minecraft, ark and others among their age group.
For them, there is always another tomorrow, while adults come to understand with each passing year how untrue that really is.
Some adults don't value their time very much either, judging from the many bad games they'll play.
Maybe. I am probably a lot more grief tolerant than the average MMORPG players. I did start at 16 though which is the age my son is. I think why have a hard time stomaching normal themeparks is the lack of excitement in doing mostly meaningless quest and stat multiplication. I could care less about cool gear if everyone has it. I could care less if i had 50 HP or 500 HP if the enemies all felt the same. Themeparks to me waste a lot of time with progression that at the end of the day doesn't mean much we are forced go through.
UO was fun to me and probably ruined my whole MMORPG outlook. It was so random and player centric while not forcing me to group. Even the crazy beta bugs which usually were either funny or fun just added too it. I would love to see a game where it allows mature player interactions while having anti-grief mechanism in place. Seem's now games go out of their way to limit interaction to just random groups, guilds and sterile PvP.
I think most of us have games early in our history which molded our expectations and preferences which impact (or haunt) us years later.
My early MMOs were all based on territory control, with heavy PVP elements hence those are really the only style of game play I enjoy. (Despite being mostly a non combatant in such titles)
UO, AC1, DAOC, EVE, EQ1, FFXI, SWG, WOW are often cited by many as one of their first and still favorite games, while in contrast seldom does anyone post that SWTOR, TSW, or AOC had similar impact.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
UO was my first MMO in 97...I remember enjoying walking around the town, then the second I step foot outside it, boom dead.....SO I revive and try again, dead...I sat back and thought "what is fun about this?" and I deleted it...Thank goodness EQ came along and I got a positive MMO experience.
UO was my first MMO in 97...I remember enjoying walking around the town, then the second I step foot outside it, boom dead.....SO I revive and try again, dead...I sat back and thought "what is fun about this?" and I deleted it...Thank goodness EQ came along and I got a positive MMO experience.
Reminds me of the time I tried to introduce a co worker to Lineage 1 back in 2002.
Although we were on the US "PVE" server, griefers will be griefers and they found a way to kill his dog (you tamed your own pets) by blocking a doorway or something.
He was so taken aback that someone in a game would do this just for "lulz" that he quit immediately and I don't think ever tried another MMORPG again. (Certainly not in the 3 years we worked together.)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You let those kids play! There's plenty of time in their future for them to become the 'vocal minority whiners' that strip all games of character/spark!
You let those kids play! There's plenty of time in their future for them to become the 'vocal minority whiners' that strip all games of character/spark!
Gut Out!
It is being stripped of your spark and having to buy a new one to start over with that upsets people about persistent griefing.
You let those kids play! There's plenty of time in their future for them to become the 'vocal minority whiners' that strip all games of character/spark!
Gut Out!
It is being stripped of your spark and having to buy a new one to start over with that upsets people about persistent griefing.
Ignorance is bliss, so the kids should stay blissful. "Having to buy a new one," is the key here though. Don't do it unless you like the pain...ha
If it's a known part of the gameplay, buyer beware I guess. If it happens through hacking, the hackers should burn slowly in hell.
UO was my first MMO in 97...I remember enjoying walking around the town, then the second I step foot outside it, boom dead.....SO I revive and try again, dead...I sat back and thought "what is fun about this?" and I deleted it...Thank goodness EQ came along and I got a positive MMO experience.
Reminds me of the time I tried to introduce a co worker to Lineage 1 back in 2002.
Although we were on the US "PVE" server, griefers will be griefers and they found a way to kill his dog (you tamed your own pets) by blocking a doorway or something.
He was so taken aback that someone in a game would do this just for "lulz" that he quit immediately and I don't think ever tried another MMORPG again. (Certainly not in the 3 years we worked together.)
Right it is a real eye opener to what asshats people can be.
Design an engaging decent quality MMORPG from the ground up around openPvP and it will attract the appropiate players and your grief tolerance differential is solved. For that one game anyway.
Now, if you can pull off the needed quality with a budget that is appropiate for the size of that specific target audience is a different question that has probably not been answered yet.
However I do challenge the OP's premise: "based on what my son does" is a mighty small sample. Even if you throw in your own experiences. Its like saying "my cat eats XXX, why do all cats eat XXX".
There are millions of mmorpg players and lots of games - with different designs (as mentioned) in lots of countries.
Do people value their time more as they get older? Probably but I reckon I always valued my time. Which suggests that "youth" (and olds!) are not homogenious populations. Not all the same.
And there are enough articles on people dumping games in the first few minutes, day, two days if they don't impress; right away. Articles that seem to be age agnostic. "The youth of today - whoever they are - just won't stick with stuff long enough." Which makes me want to say make your mind up. They either value their time - and so dump games quick - or don't.
And I think its probably a mix. Different people like different games; and if they enjoy what they are doing maybe they don't see it as a waste. Tinged by a touch of everyone getting fussier as they get older / try more games.
My son plays Ark and they have their bases destroyed and dinos killed. These type of things would horrify the average MMORPG player. Full loot, base destroyed and dinos killed is just something to take in stride. This game does have character development and grinding for buildings.
MMORPG players on the hand seem to hate being killed or grieved even they lose very little. Why is there a stark difference?
If you wish to talk about griefing..
Griefing was prime in early subscription-based MMOs. It was super common in full open world PvP games. However, when the world opened up developers tried to keep their games alive against WoW by going from P2P to F2P/B2P models.
Over time, developers realized the truth...
For every 1 hardcore player in the world that exists, there probably exists maybe 99 or more Casual Players. Casual Players at large have their money and developers want access to their money. The way they did this was cater their games to the casual crowd in sacrifice to the hardcore crowd.
Like I learned in Classes years ago... Hardcore players want more challenges and chances to show off their skill and power against anyone (including weaker players), while casual players want more and more character-based content especially endgame glam to the point they are willing to spend their life savings in fashion for their characters...
$$$ of Casual Players combined > $$$ of Hardcore players combined
So the wind blew the other direction, and thus the MMORPG market became about appealing to as many people as possible...
Out went the level grinding, now players can level to cap in games in 1 - 3 weeks Out went the griefing, as PvP and PvE get separated in most games now. In came the easy-mode, where challenge now needs to have a name as a symbol denoting that its content for "Hardcore players" or "those seeking for a challenge." In came the idea that if enough players can't beat a map, they just lower the difficulty until players stop complaining.
Not to mention, Now most of the time I feel griefed in playing any MMO is by having to be exposed to what goes on in Global Chat or Area Chat in most of these games...or most of the discord rooms associated with clans/guilds in these games.
Because in other genres you can install the game, kill people within seconds of opening the game.
In an MMO (outside EVE where you can do the same, and Planetside 1/2)...you grind hours/days/weeks/months...you get amazing items...here comes douche who either is super powerful with max skills, or max level or best items and kills you in one hit and if you hit him its 1 damage or nothing at all. And then he loots everything on your body and then you repeat the grind.
This is why EVE Online is so successful. Start up game, kill people in rookie ship. If you die in rookie ship, you get new rookie ship. But if the other player sucks or you have more PLAYER skill (not character skill) you can win the battle.
Planetside 1/2 of course is more a FPS so you can kill anyone if you are good at FPS games.
Or league of legend style games...its 100% fair, and you work with your team against the same number of other team...best skilled team wins...no grinding hours or months of your life...hop in, play kill people. No overwhelming zerg numbers, no overpowered items, no grinding 1000s of hours, no overpowered characters.
Most sandbox MMOs fail because they don't recreate LoL or Planetside 1/2 or EVE Online.
Ill ask again beings folks want to keep posting this nonsense and not back it up , What current mainstream MMO (outside of Eve and UO Fel) is this horriffic act of looting happening in ..?
And even in Eve and UO this can be avoided with even the simplest lvl of research that lab monkeys could manage ...
sooo
We carebears have very long memories, well remembering the bad ole early days.
Now if a dev even hints at permitting unrestricted griefing we raise the pitchforks and threaten them with financial ruin.
Fear the power of our wallets, for they are legion
We even go so far as to often tell the tales of horror to the younger generation, so they too can continue the browbeatings simply on the stories they have learned.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
UO was my first MMO in 97...I remember enjoying walking around the town, then the second I step foot outside it, boom dead.....SO I revive and try again, dead...I sat back and thought "what is fun about this?" and I deleted it...Thank goodness EQ came along and I got a positive MMO experience.
Reminds me of the time I tried to introduce a co worker to Lineage 1 back in 2002.
Although we were on the US "PVE" server, griefers will be griefers and they found a way to kill his dog (you tamed your own pets) by blocking a doorway or something.
He was so taken aback that someone in a game would do this just for "lulz" that he quit immediately and I don't think ever tried another MMORPG again. (Certainly not in the 3 years we worked together.)
I don't blame the guy because we place unfathomable value to things in a game and one people who destroy cannot understand or cruelly understand all too well. See that is the thing that makes me avoid PvP this casual , gleeful cruelty that seems to fuel their fun.
Even people who ARE tolerant ARENT really all that much... sure those games can have seemingly healthy population at launch it always dies because of everyone crying after just a few months...
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We play games for fun right. Why use the word 'tolerate'. You tolerate things you don't like or find unpleasant. Is that the correct litmus for fun?
I think people should just play what they like and should not have to 'tolerate' anything they dislike.
By that litmus I would not be playing any games, there is always something I dislike.
That's sad you're playing games you dislike . I find somethings tedious but I would never stay for a game I dislike unless it was Everquest because it was my first game and I did not have any idea what this genre is like. Now I quit or avoid the parts I dislike. I would never engage in things I dislike unless it is for friends who are playing. For their sake I might stay for awhile but ultimately I would leave.
It's ludicrous to me to play something and I continue playing when so many things chafe my senses. It would be hard although I can understand that you might do that. Perhaps other aspects are so fantastic that the parts you dislike are tolerable but I've yet to come across such a fantastic game that fits that description..
Because in other genres you can install the game, kill people within seconds of opening the game.
In an MMO (outside EVE where you can do the same, and Planetside 1/2)...you grind hours/days/weeks/months...you get amazing items...here comes douche who either is super powerful with max skills, or max level or best items and kills you in one hit and if you hit him its 1 damage or nothing at all. And then he loots everything on your body and then you repeat the grind.
This is why EVE Online is so successful. Start up game, kill people in rookie ship. If you die in rookie ship, you get new rookie ship. But if the other player sucks or you have more PLAYER skill (not character skill) you can win the battle.
Planetside 1/2 of course is more a FPS so you can kill anyone if you are good at FPS games.
Or league of legend style games...its 100% fair, and you work with your team against the same number of other team...best skilled team wins...no grinding hours or months of your life...hop in, play kill people. No overwhelming zerg numbers, no overpowered items, no grinding 1000s of hours, no overpowered characters.
Most sandbox MMOs fail because they don't recreate LoL or Planetside 1/2 or EVE Online.
Ill ask again beings folks want to keep posting this nonsense and not back it up , What current mainstream MMO (outside of Eve and UO Fel) is this horriffic act of looting happening in ..?
And even in Eve and UO this can be avoided with even the simplest lvl of research that lab monkeys could manage ...
sooo
We carebears have very long memories, well remembering the bad ole early days.
Now if a dev even hints at permitting unrestricted griefing we raise the pitchforks and threaten them with financial ruin.
Fear the power of our wallets, for they are legion
We even go so far as to often tell the tales of horror to the younger generation, so they too can continue the browbeatings simply on the stories they have learned.
Fair enuff, sounds about whats going on in most of these threads...Seems some have been terribly wounded.. But on the other hand , some of us fought back and had a helluva lotta fun doing it ,
Some of my fondest memories fro UO, and im still in touch with a couple of the guys , That i ran in UO with , and we banded together in E Brit , was 9 of us total back then , we would set traps up for the Reds , they became the hunted , Was at one point when there were 4 of us at Oasis , and 5 reds were just off screen discussing there plans on the some of the folks when we showed up ,the stood there a minute and 1 of the Reds said
" Theres a lotta power here , lets move on "
And they left ..
We would set lone Forester in the woods for example and have 5 or 6 others stealthed around the area , when Red came to gank the lone woodsman, theReds became ganked ,many many ways to fight back ... Some did ....................... some didnt ..:)
a shout out to Striker , Waldo, Stra , Mixelpix, Arno , Spar, Vision ,Dainty and Saffire .. we fought back to make Brtittania a better place
Because in other genres you can install the game, kill people within seconds of opening the game.
In an MMO (outside EVE where you can do the same, and Planetside 1/2)...you grind hours/days/weeks/months...you get amazing items...here comes douche who either is super powerful with max skills, or max level or best items and kills you in one hit and if you hit him its 1 damage or nothing at all. And then he loots everything on your body and then you repeat the grind.
This is why EVE Online is so successful. Start up game, kill people in rookie ship. If you die in rookie ship, you get new rookie ship. But if the other player sucks or you have more PLAYER skill (not character skill) you can win the battle.
Planetside 1/2 of course is more a FPS so you can kill anyone if you are good at FPS games.
Or league of legend style games...its 100% fair, and you work with your team against the same number of other team...best skilled team wins...no grinding hours or months of your life...hop in, play kill people. No overwhelming zerg numbers, no overpowered items, no grinding 1000s of hours, no overpowered characters.
Most sandbox MMOs fail because they don't recreate LoL or Planetside 1/2 or EVE Online.
Ill ask again beings folks want to keep posting this nonsense and not back it up , What current mainstream MMO (outside of Eve and UO Fel) is this horriffic act of looting happening in ..?
And even in Eve and UO this can be avoided with even the simplest lvl of research that lab monkeys could manage ...
sooo
We carebears have very long memories, well remembering the bad ole early days.
Now if a dev even hints at permitting unrestricted griefing we raise the pitchforks and threaten them with financial ruin.
Fear the power of our wallets, for they are legion
We even go so far as to often tell the tales of horror to the younger generation, so they too can continue the browbeatings simply on the stories they have learned.
Fair enuff, sounds about whats going on in most of these threads...Seems some have been terribly wounded.. But on the other hand , some of us fought back and had a helluva lotta fun doing it ,
Some of my fondest memories fro UO, and im still in touch with a couple of the guys , That i ran in UO with , and we banded together in E Brit , was 9 of us total back then , we would set traps up for the Reds , they became the hunted , Was at one point when there were 4 of us at Oasis , and 5 reds were just off screen discussing there plans on the some of the folks when we showed up ,the stood there a minute and 1 of the Reds said
" Theres a lotta power here , lets move on "
And they left ..
We would set lone Forester in the woods for example and have 5 or 6 others stealthed around the area , when Red came to gank the lone woodsman, theReds became ganked ,many many ways to fight back ... Some did ....................... some didnt ..:)
a shout out to Striker , Waldo, Stra , Mixelpix, Arno , Spar, Vision ,Dainty and Saffire .. we fought back to make Brtittania a better place
Nice story, yet in the end my guess is the reds won far more often than they lost, because as you pointed out, they know to run when the odds aren't clearly in their favor and your trap is only going to work once or twice before they turn it back around on you.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Because in other genres you can install the game, kill people within seconds of opening the game.
In an MMO (outside EVE where you can do the same, and Planetside 1/2)...you grind hours/days/weeks/months...you get amazing items...here comes douche who either is super powerful with max skills, or max level or best items and kills you in one hit and if you hit him its 1 damage or nothing at all. And then he loots everything on your body and then you repeat the grind.
This is why EVE Online is so successful. Start up game, kill people in rookie ship. If you die in rookie ship, you get new rookie ship. But if the other player sucks or you have more PLAYER skill (not character skill) you can win the battle.
Planetside 1/2 of course is more a FPS so you can kill anyone if you are good at FPS games.
Or league of legend style games...its 100% fair, and you work with your team against the same number of other team...best skilled team wins...no grinding hours or months of your life...hop in, play kill people. No overwhelming zerg numbers, no overpowered items, no grinding 1000s of hours, no overpowered characters.
Most sandbox MMOs fail because they don't recreate LoL or Planetside 1/2 or EVE Online.
Ill ask again beings folks want to keep posting this nonsense and not back it up , What current mainstream MMO (outside of Eve and UO Fel) is this horriffic act of looting happening in ..?
And even in Eve and UO this can be avoided with even the simplest lvl of research that lab monkeys could manage ...
sooo
We carebears have very long memories, well remembering the bad ole early days.
Now if a dev even hints at permitting unrestricted griefing we raise the pitchforks and threaten them with financial ruin.
Fear the power of our wallets, for they are legion
We even go so far as to often tell the tales of horror to the younger generation, so they too can continue the browbeatings simply on the stories they have learned.
Fair enuff, sounds about whats going on in most of these threads...Seems some have been terribly wounded.. But on the other hand , some of us fought back and had a helluva lotta fun doing it ,
Some of my fondest memories fro UO, and im still in touch with a couple of the guys , That i ran in UO with , and we banded together in E Brit , was 9 of us total back then , we would set traps up for the Reds , they became the hunted , Was at one point when there were 4 of us at Oasis , and 5 reds were just off screen discussing there plans on the some of the folks when we showed up ,the stood there a minute and 1 of the Reds said
" Theres a lotta power here , lets move on "
And they left ..
We would set lone Forester in the woods for example and have 5 or 6 others stealthed around the area , when Red came to gank the lone woodsman, theReds became ganked ,many many ways to fight back ... Some did ....................... some didnt ..:)
a shout out to Striker , Waldo, Stra , Mixelpix, Arno , Spar, Vision ,Dainty and Saffire .. we fought back to make Brtittania a better place
Nice story, yet in the end my guess is the reds won far more often than they lost, because as you pointed out, they know to run when the odds aren't clearly in their favor and your trap is only going to work once or twice before they turn it back around on you.
Nooo.. dont get me wrong we lost alot .. but we had the upper hand for a very long time , we would even camp there houses ...yes we griefed them
And as far as traps .. there are many ways in UO and were lots of stupid overly aggresive reds..
Because in other genres you can install the game, kill people within seconds of opening the game.
In an MMO (outside EVE where you can do the same, and Planetside 1/2)...you grind hours/days/weeks/months...you get amazing items...here comes douche who either is super powerful with max skills, or max level or best items and kills you in one hit and if you hit him its 1 damage or nothing at all. And then he loots everything on your body and then you repeat the grind.
This is why EVE Online is so successful. Start up game, kill people in rookie ship. If you die in rookie ship, you get new rookie ship. But if the other player sucks or you have more PLAYER skill (not character skill) you can win the battle.
Planetside 1/2 of course is more a FPS so you can kill anyone if you are good at FPS games.
Or league of legend style games...its 100% fair, and you work with your team against the same number of other team...best skilled team wins...no grinding hours or months of your life...hop in, play kill people. No overwhelming zerg numbers, no overpowered items, no grinding 1000s of hours, no overpowered characters.
Most sandbox MMOs fail because they don't recreate LoL or Planetside 1/2 or EVE Online.
Ill ask again beings folks want to keep posting this nonsense and not back it up , What current mainstream MMO (outside of Eve and UO Fel) is this horriffic act of looting happening in ..?
And even in Eve and UO this can be avoided with even the simplest lvl of research that lab monkeys could manage ...
sooo
We carebears have very long memories, well remembering the bad ole early days.
Now if a dev even hints at permitting unrestricted griefing we raise the pitchforks and threaten them with financial ruin.
Fear the power of our wallets, for they are legion
We even go so far as to often tell the tales of horror to the younger generation, so they too can continue the browbeatings simply on the stories they have learned.
Fair enuff, sounds about whats going on in most of these threads...Seems some have been terribly wounded.. But on the other hand , some of us fought back and had a helluva lotta fun doing it ,
Some of my fondest memories fro UO, and im still in touch with a couple of the guys , That i ran in UO with , and we banded together in E Brit , was 9 of us total back then , we would set traps up for the Reds , they became the hunted , Was at one point when there were 4 of us at Oasis , and 5 reds were just off screen discussing there plans on the some of the folks when we showed up ,the stood there a minute and 1 of the Reds said
" Theres a lotta power here , lets move on "
And they left ..
We would set lone Forester in the woods for example and have 5 or 6 others stealthed around the area , when Red came to gank the lone woodsman, theReds became ganked ,many many ways to fight back ... Some did ....................... some didnt ..:)
a shout out to Striker , Waldo, Stra , Mixelpix, Arno , Spar, Vision ,Dainty and Saffire .. we fought back to make Brtittania a better place
Nice story, yet in the end my guess is the reds won far more often than they lost, because as you pointed out, they know to run when the odds aren't clearly in their favor and your trap is only going to work once or twice before they turn it back around on you.
Nooo.. dont get me wrong we lost alot .. but we had the upper hand for a very long time , we would even camp there houses ...yes we griefed them
And as far as traps .. there are many ways in UO and were lots of stupid overly aggresive reds..
Yeah, I believe in the early UO days even reds still had much to learn.
Coming from many years of EVE play, I've seen griefing, ganking and asshattery taken to almost professional levels.
There are pirate and merc corps where every member has a 90% plus positive killboard, because they never, ever fight unless its to their great advantage.
These folks along with hi sec gankers like Code are good at what they do, quite brilliant really, in an evil genius sort of manner.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We play games for fun right. Why use the word 'tolerate'. You tolerate things you don't like or find unpleasant. Is that the correct litmus for fun?
I think people should just play what they like and should not have to 'tolerate' anything they dislike.
By that litmus I would not be playing any games, there is always something I dislike.
That's sad you're playing games you dislike . I find somethings tedious but I would never stay for a game I dislike unless it was Everquest because it was my first game and I did not have any idea what this genre is like. Now I quit or avoid the parts I dislike. I would never engage in things I dislike unless it is for friends who are playing. For their sake I might stay for awhile but ultimately I would leave.
It's ludicrous to me to play something and I continue playing when so many things chafe my senses. It would be hard although I can understand that you might do that. Perhaps other aspects are so fantastic that the parts you dislike are tolerable but I've yet to come across such a fantastic game that fits that description..
I am really referring to niggles, its just what you decide to call them. Am I fed up now of climbing up towers in AC? Yes, but its not that bad I won't throw the game away for it. There is always something, but if the theme of the game is not for you forget it.
So I never play those treasure (is it?) finding games where you look at pictures and find stuff. But generally I like any puzzle games.
Comments
My early MMOs were all based on territory control, with heavy PVP elements hence those are really the only style of game play I enjoy. (Despite being mostly a non combatant in such titles)
UO, AC1, DAOC, EVE, EQ1, FFXI, SWG, WOW are often cited by many as one of their first and still favorite games, while in contrast seldom does anyone post that SWTOR, TSW, or AOC had similar impact.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Although we were on the US "PVE" server, griefers will be griefers and they found a way to kill his dog (you tamed your own pets) by blocking a doorway or something.
He was so taken aback that someone in a game would do this just for "lulz" that he quit immediately and I don't think ever tried another MMORPG again. (Certainly not in the 3 years we worked together.)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
If it's a known part of the gameplay, buyer beware I guess. If it happens through hacking, the hackers should burn slowly in hell.
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
For that one game anyway.
Now, if you can pull off the needed quality with a budget that is appropiate for the size of that specific target audience is a different question that has probably not been answered yet.
However I do challenge the OP's premise: "based on what my son does" is a mighty small sample. Even if you throw in your own experiences. Its like saying "my cat eats XXX, why do all cats eat XXX".
There are millions of mmorpg players and lots of games - with different designs (as mentioned) in lots of countries.
Do people value their time more as they get older? Probably but I reckon I always valued my time. Which suggests that "youth" (and olds!) are not homogenious populations. Not all the same.
And there are enough articles on people dumping games in the first few minutes, day, two days if they don't impress; right away. Articles that seem to be age agnostic. "The youth of today - whoever they are - just won't stick with stuff long enough." Which makes me want to say make your mind up. They either value their time - and so dump games quick - or don't.
And I think its probably a mix. Different people like different games; and if they enjoy what they are doing maybe they don't see it as a waste. Tinged by a touch of everyone getting fussier as they get older / try more games.
Griefing was prime in early subscription-based MMOs. It was super common in full open world PvP games. However, when the world opened up developers tried to keep their games alive against WoW by going from P2P to F2P/B2P models.
Over time, developers realized the truth...
For every 1 hardcore player in the world that exists, there probably exists maybe 99 or more Casual Players. Casual Players at large have their money and developers want access to their money. The way they did this was cater their games to the casual crowd in sacrifice to the hardcore crowd.
Like I learned in Classes years ago...
Hardcore players want more challenges and chances to show off their skill and power against anyone (including weaker players), while casual players want more and more character-based content especially endgame glam to the point they are willing to spend their life savings in fashion for their characters...
$$$ of Casual Players combined > $$$ of Hardcore players combined
So the wind blew the other direction, and thus the MMORPG market became about appealing to as many people as possible...
Out went the level grinding, now players can level to cap in games in 1 - 3 weeks
Out went the griefing, as PvP and PvE get separated in most games now.
In came the easy-mode, where challenge now needs to have a name as a symbol denoting that its content for "Hardcore players" or "those seeking for a challenge."
In came the idea that if enough players can't beat a map, they just lower the difficulty until players stop complaining.
Not to mention,
Now most of the time I feel griefed in playing any MMO is by having to be exposed to what goes on in Global Chat or Area Chat in most of these games...or most of the discord rooms associated with clans/guilds in these games.
Now if a dev even hints at permitting unrestricted griefing we raise the pitchforks and threaten them with financial ruin.
Fear the power of our wallets, for they are legion
We even go so far as to often tell the tales of horror to the younger generation, so they too can continue the browbeatings simply on the stories they have learned.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
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I think people should just play what they like and should not have to 'tolerate' anything they dislike.
It's ludicrous to me to play something and I continue playing when so many things chafe my senses. It would be hard although I can understand that you might do that. Perhaps other aspects are so fantastic that the parts you dislike are tolerable but I've yet to come across such a fantastic game that fits that description..
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Coming from many years of EVE play, I've seen griefing, ganking and asshattery taken to almost professional levels.
There are pirate and merc corps where every member has a 90% plus positive killboard, because they never, ever fight unless its to their great advantage.
These folks along with hi sec gankers like Code are good at what they do, quite brilliant really, in an evil genius sort of manner.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just saying.
We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
So I never play those treasure (is it?) finding games where you look at pictures and find stuff. But generally I like any puzzle games.