The ArenaNet Catastrophe Has The Whole Game Industry Rethinking Harassment Policies

Gaia_Hunter

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

I've played GW2 many years, never heard of that guy. To me, he's just another player who happens to have a youtube channel... like millions of people posting the videos of their dog or their latest holidays.

He is a member of the Arenanet partner program though.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet_Partner_Program

I'm sure if a partner was sexist, Arenanet would remove them and ban them.

I'm sure any community member being sexist would be banned from the game if Arenanet could identify them.

Xasapis

I don't know, how many gamer nobodies get ingame characters named after them?

Slapshot1188

Interitus said:

I have to say what the youtuber suggested wasn't earth shattering as an idea. I'm sure he did have good intentions, but it was pretty simplistic of an idea.  And her response to that was adequate. I've seen people call her angry, or lost control.  How meek are the women who you are around?  Someone gave a simple and and she gave a snarky answer.  At best this is a ding against professionalism.

Now that's just for that tweet.  Some of her other tweets were handled very poorly.  All around there were a lot of hastily done and said things. And I think it is a great example of why it can help to sit back and think on the moment. And not act on impulse

The initial response is not what got her fired.  Where she went totally off the rails was when she blasted him out to her followers as a sexist.  That took it to a whole other level.

And, as far as I can tell she to this day has not even apologized.  

Quizzical

Gaia_Hunter said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

I've played GW2 many years, never heard of that guy. To me, he's just another player who happens to have a youtube channel... like millions of people posting the videos of their dog or their latest holidays.

He is a member of the Arenanet partner program though.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet_Partner_Program

So he's one of several dozen people with a Twitch and/or YouTube channel that basically no one cares about.  That's prominent?

I can understand why ArenaNet wants more people putting stuff about their games on Twitch and YouTube.  Someone who doesn't play might stumble across it, think it looks interesting, and try their game.  It's basically free marketing for ArenaNet.  But being a small part of such a marginal marketing effort is not what I'd consider a "prominent" player.

Nilden

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Dragnelus said:

rastapastor said:

Oh buuuuu, cry me a river.

If You attack the customer of the company You work for, expect consequences, no matter if u have a dick or vagina. Just suck it up and stop beeing an ass or expect repercussions for Your fail  actions.

Women in general cant let things go. 

Now THIS is sexist. Way to prove her right.

Is it still sexist if a wamen says it?

Slapshot1188

Quizzical said:

Gaia_Hunter said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

I've played GW2 many years, never heard of that guy. To me, he's just another player who happens to have a youtube channel... like millions of people posting the videos of their dog or their latest holidays.

He is a member of the Arenanet partner program though.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet_Partner_Program

So he's one of several dozen people with a Twitch and/or YouTube channel that basically no one cares about.  That's prominent?

I can understand why ArenaNet wants more people putting stuff about their games on Twitch and YouTube.  Someone who doesn't play might stumble across it, think it looks interesting, and try their game.  It's basically free marketing for ArenaNet.  But being a small part of such a marginal marketing effort is not what I'd consider a "prominent" player.

It shouldn't matter if he is a prominent player, a casual player or just a human being.  He shouldn't have been treated that way.

Gaia_Hunter

Quizzical said:

Gaia_Hunter said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

I've played GW2 many years, never heard of that guy. To me, he's just another player who happens to have a youtube channel... like millions of people posting the videos of their dog or their latest holidays.

He is a member of the Arenanet partner program though.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet_Partner_Program

So he's one of several dozen people with a Twitch and/or YouTube channel that basically no one cares about.  That's prominent?

I can understand why ArenaNet wants more people putting stuff about their games on Twitch and YouTube.  Someone who doesn't play might stumble across it, think it looks interesting, and try their game.  It's basically free marketing for ArenaNet.  But being a small part of such a marginal marketing effort is not what I'd consider a "prominent" player.

He also has a NPC named after him.
Anyway several dozen of a few hundred thousand puts you in the top 0.01%.

FlyByKnight

Can you low brow red hat lemmings stop calling everything SJW and go back to preparing for the zombie apocalypse? This situation has 0 to do with "SJW". Don't you dummies have empty federal buildings to to storm w/ rifles over cow grazing land while simultaneously telling other folks they can't kneel in protest over life and death situations? Seriously STFU.

It's an arrogant individual who tried to behave like a pompous rockstar to a consumer and got taken down a peg by their employer. The people behind the articles and attempts at gas-lighting are her friends and associates in the industry who are also clowns.

Straight like that. Stop using this dumb s#!% to parrot your rusty pick up truck bumper sticker catch phrases.

k61977

She deserved to be fired.  She deserves no sympathy at all.  She was the one that attacked a customer, not the other way around.  Really sad to even see this is something to be talked about today.  If you act like she did then you deserve what you get point blank.   Hope no one will hire her now in this industry because all she wants now is her 15 mins of fame.

Thane

Dragnelus said:

One week ago, two Guild Wars 2 narrative designers, Jessica Price and Peter Fries, were fired after Price called out a player of the game on Twitter, prompting widespread backlash. Since then, mobs have tried to employ similar tactics against more women, and game development studios have had to take a hard look at their own social media policies.

Read more at:

https://kotaku.com/in-the-wake-of-arenanet-firings-game-studios-rethink-t-1827591298

it's usualy a good plan not to insult your customers.

"the customer is always right", been some time since then i guess

[quote]“This is what these people think they can do to us now.”[/quote]

well, they do what you let em do. always. they don't know limits. they find em.

marganculos

are some of you guys retarded,are you trolling or what? in which company you work and will let you attack customers without any consequences? have you ever worked in any company or are you still some sort of "students" which never worked (yet) so they have no idea how "adult world" works and how you should behave in work?

Dragnelus

Why does she put "female" on every noun she says.

Never seen a man say as a "male developer" 

killimandros

What happens here in this situation, goes beyond this simple and relatively unique situation. It creates a standard for how customers and game designers relation is going to be defined from now on. There are a couple of interesting points to be taken;

First and foremost, going into a discussion with a customer from a designers point of view, no matter the type, can now potentially be harmful for your employment conditions. I dont know about the laws in the US, but in EU, this would be considered a  very very dubious situation. I wonder what the unions would say about this...
If this becomes the standard, the company is allowed to terminate the contract due to unwanted relations to the customers base, how and who will define what is unwanted relations? To me, it seems like an opportunity to get rid of abundant employees as an example, because diggin a bit I am fairly certain almost all of us have been involved in unwanted relations privately or not at some point. I dont like this situation at all, we dont want more movement and general uncertainty in the industry, we want the opposite to be assured we get better products. All research on the matter is very clear; uncertainty doesnt provide good goods.
Secondly, what type of feedback can we now expect from the customers. The industry is already becoming a cesspile of toxcidity. Hiding relatively easy behind anonimity and or popularity via your stream, grants certain people access to power of defining who and who should not be a part of the industry. Bullying will never have had better reason to exist, because theres no punishment and the reward is very clear. Theres an ongoing civil case atm right now here in Norway where several more or less famous people have reported a semi-famous youtuber to the police for spreading slander and lies about them, so he can grow his audience. The authorities doesnt know what to do really.  Are we comfortable with handling the cencorship to the individual? I am not. I predict a huge increase of activity from the most toxic parts of the gaming community in order to test the borders for what leads to consequences. And if toxcidity leads to this situations, they have won.

One of you guys suggested the best solution to this particular issue, which would have closed effectively the whole situation; Ask the person to restrain social activity on the net. But firing her? Very bad idea indeed.

SBFord

Dragnelus said:

Women in general cant let things go. 

I'm frankly astonished at this level of gross generalization. I don't know as I'd say it's sexist, just a "funny" (i.e. not funny at all) statement that says a lot about the writer.

Just wow.

The existing threads on this topic have pretty well beaten the dead horse to multiple deaths. Geez...even the GW2 Reddit has moved on. LOL!

Dragnelus

SBFord said:

Dragnelus said:

Women in general cant let things go. 

I'm frankly astonished at this level of gross generalization. I don't know as I'd say it's sexist, just a "funny" (i.e. not funny at all) statement that says a lot about the writer.

Just wow.

The existing threads on this topic have pretty well beaten the dead horse to multiple deaths. Geez...even the GW2 Reddit has moved on. LOL!

Haha was waiting

Scarran

When did the world get so soft? Where someone starts a public discussion on a non private twitter account and then when someone comes in and I quote "slightly disagrees" with their comments its suddenly harassment or an anti-female agenda.

The worst part is that she is hiding behind certain trigger words to condone her deplorable attitude towards what was an innocuous comment. But rather than folks condemning her actions of mistreating a GW2 community member, game journalists and a minority of special snowflakes actually support her actions.

*sarcasm on* I mean how dare Deroir have the gall to *slightly disagree* with what a dev says on a public discussion, he should have bowed down to the almighty dev who knows all *sarcasm off*.

What Jessica Price has gone through was not harassment nor was it some anti-female agenda and anyone who thinks this is doing a huge disservice to those who do go through these type of things. People need to stop hiding behind trigger words to hide their inadequacies of taking criticism and/or using them to justify their idiotic actions.

Aeander

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

I've read several articles about this... gotta love when youtube nobodies try to tell developers how to do their jobs with obvious statements and then think they are very smart.

Price shouldn't have answered to that idiot at all, but the guy is a little prick.

Now he can be happy, he made two people lose their jobs while he keeps on doing his crappy youtube stuff and thinks he's a kind of star.

Jean, think about this for a moment. He wasn't a nobody. He was an official partner of the company. Regardless of whether or not his feedback in this case was useful (it wasn't), he in no way caused, wanted, nor benefitted from these two people losing their jobs. 

He had a very high opinion of Price prior to the incident and made that publicly known before the incident. He was polite. He did not respond with any level of hostility even when she confronted him. His actions did not directly cause the resulting fallout and were in no way intended to do so.

Deroir didn't make Price behave like a rampaging harpy. That was her decision and was in no way deserved nor encouraged by this "crappy youtube star." If anything, he has probably come out of this significantly worse. He was the one who was harassed. He is made to feel guilty for two of his favorite Arenanet employees losing their jobs. He is the one currently being harassed by Price's social media followers and random nobodies with no understanding of the situation.

For all the respect I hold for you Jean, do not become one of those random nobodies with no understanding of the situation. Look into the facts before talking. 

SBFord

Dragnelus said:

SBFord said:

Dragnelus said:

Women in general cant let things go. 

I'm frankly astonished at this level of gross generalization. I don't know as I'd say it's sexist, just a "funny" (i.e. not funny at all) statement that says a lot about the writer.

Just wow.

The existing threads on this topic have pretty well beaten the dead horse to multiple deaths. Geez...even the GW2 Reddit has moved on. LOL!

Haha was waiting

I'm not going to engage with you, it's pointless. But purposely baiting people with garbage generalizations like yours is childish. *shrugs* Whatever. I have better things to do on a Saturday. Enjoy yourself, y'hear?

Dragnelus

SBFord said:

Dragnelus said:

SBFord said:

Dragnelus said:

Women in general cant let things go. 

I'm frankly astonished at this level of gross generalization. I don't know as I'd say it's sexist, just a "funny" (i.e. not funny at all) statement that says a lot about the writer.

Just wow.

The existing threads on this topic have pretty well beaten the dead horse to multiple deaths. Geez...even the GW2 Reddit has moved on. LOL!

Haha was waiting

I'm not going to engage with you, it's pointless. But purposely baiting people with garbage generalizations like yours is childish. *shrugs* Whatever. I have better things to do on a Saturday. Enjoy yourself, y'hear?

Thank you, you too 

Octagon7711

marganculos said:

are some of you guys retarded,are you trolling or what? in which company you work and will let you attack customers without any consequences? have you ever worked in any company or are you still some sort of "students" which never worked (yet) so they have no idea how "adult world" works and how you should behave in work?

I've seen all kinds of adults in business having a bad day or a bad life, attack customers.  This unfortunately is nothing new.  I've worked with people who spent the entire eight hours talking negative about everything and everyone.  Longest days of my life and usually the person no one else wants to work with either. 

Xasapis

None of the participants were anonymous in this incident.

I also don't think that Price would refrain from using the social media. Both the way she conducted the whole AMA + twitter session and the comments afterwards, indicated a person with overinflated sense of self importance, boosted by her position that she advertises everywhere (present tense is intentional).

Unions would do just nothing in EU either in a case such as this. She could potentially take her case into courts, but since hard facts don't get trampled by press sympathy, she'd lose.

I don't know if she should have been fired. That's something only the management of each company can decide, weighting the contribution in one hand and the damage inflicted in the other. What I do know is that she shouldn't have done that AMA or use tweeter as a professional tool, since she clearly lacks basic social skills. This is the reason only lead developers and community managers talk with the customer audience in most gaming companies.

Dakeru

ikcin said:

So a person is fired because expressed opinion in a social media? The only way that could be right is if the employee is a PR or a CEO, so the opinion actually engage the company itself. In any other case this is a rude hit against the freedom of the speech.

You are taking the generalisation of this case to the extreme and that's why you are wrong.

Aeander

ikcin said:

So a person is fired because expressed opinion in a social media? The only way that could be right is if the employee is a PR or a CEO, so the opinion actually engage the company itself. In any other case this is a rude hit against the freedom of the speech.

They weren't fired for expressing an opinion. They were fired for disrespecting and harassing customers. Any respectable company would fire an employee for such an offense. 

A Walmart employee can't use their off hours to put on a Walmart uniform and stand at the door to insult customers like a disgruntled door greeter. They would be fired on the spot, and that is essentially what happened here. 

Slapshot1188

ikcin said:

So a person is fired because expressed opinion in a social media? The only way that could be right is if the employee is a PR or a CEO, so the opinion actually engage the company itself. In any other case this is a rude hit against the freedom of the speech.

Let us reverse roles here.  We have ANet employee Gary and customer Janet.

Gary is a writer for GuildWars 2 and participated in an AMA and then linked to a discussion about story in games that he wanted to discuss.

Janet responded to Gary with some ideas

Gary responds aggressively.

Janet apologizes and attempts to back out of the conversation.

Gary responded by taking Janet's post and blasting it to his followers as an example of a woman trying to tell a man what to do.  Gary then doubled and triple downed repeatedly instead of apologizing.  It's also not the first time Gary has had an issue on social media. 

Does the company have the right to take action against said employee?  I would say they clearly do. Now should that be some internal discipline or termination?  Well, that would depend on company policy and his work history.

What is funny is that the same people screaming that it's mob mentality would in most cases (not all) be the same people crying for Gary's head.