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I don't get the point of VIP
I hadn't been following this game, but read up on it recently. I've read the entire FAQ on the site, as well as some discussion elsewhere. I don't have a problem with a buy to play plus optional subscription model. I just don't get the point of why they've done it this way.
Let's suppose that I want to play a Myrmidon only. I could focus purely on Myrmidon class skills without VIP and be at no disadvantage. Let's suppose that I want to play both a Myrmidon and a Ranger. With VIP, I could level both a Myrmidon and a Ranger skill at the same time. That costs me $50, plus $15/month for VIP.
Or I could just make two accounts: a Myrmidon account and a Ranger account. Now I can level both classes at the same time for $100, and thus get the advantage of VIP without the $15/month. So long as I stick with the game past the 90 day mark, I'm money ahead by going that route. And if I really like the game, money way ahead as compared to paying for two years of VIP.
The way that I come out money behind with this approach is if I don't like the game and quit quickly. $100 for a game that I only play for a week and then quit is awfully steep. But someone on another thread said that the second VIP skill only levels at half speed.
So instead, what if I pay for a Myrmidon account first, and then wait three months without VIP. If I still like the game at that point and plan to play much longer, pay $50 for a Ranger account, too. At this point, with the start of the fourth month arriving, I'd have paid $60 and counting for VIP. By the end of month six, my Ranger account with three months of leveling a Ranger skill at full speed would be just as strong of a Ranger as a VIP account leveling a Ranger skill at half speed.
And it only gets worse from there. After a year, the two accounts approach leaves me considerably stronger than one account with VIP, as I effectively have nine months of leveling a Ranger skill rather than six. And regardless of when I quit, at all times, I have paid less money with the two accounts approach than one account with VIP.
My question is, does this break down, and if so, how? Is there some major advantage to the same account being able to play both a Ranger and a Myrmidon effectively rather than them being two separate accounts? For example, is it impossible to pass materials back and forth between my accounts? I'm aware that passing materials between worlds is limited, but what stops both accounts from playing on the same world? Does tight guild space mean that guilds wouldn't want to make room for me if I'm splitting time between multiple accounts? Is there some major advantage to a leatherworker being able to drop his crafting and fight effectively at a few seconds notice?
Because if it doesn't break down, then we're back to the point of the thread title: I don't get the point of VIP.
Let's suppose that I want to play a Myrmidon only. I could focus purely on Myrmidon class skills without VIP and be at no disadvantage. Let's suppose that I want to play both a Myrmidon and a Ranger. With VIP, I could level both a Myrmidon and a Ranger skill at the same time. That costs me $50, plus $15/month for VIP.
Or I could just make two accounts: a Myrmidon account and a Ranger account. Now I can level both classes at the same time for $100, and thus get the advantage of VIP without the $15/month. So long as I stick with the game past the 90 day mark, I'm money ahead by going that route. And if I really like the game, money way ahead as compared to paying for two years of VIP.
The way that I come out money behind with this approach is if I don't like the game and quit quickly. $100 for a game that I only play for a week and then quit is awfully steep. But someone on another thread said that the second VIP skill only levels at half speed.
So instead, what if I pay for a Myrmidon account first, and then wait three months without VIP. If I still like the game at that point and plan to play much longer, pay $50 for a Ranger account, too. At this point, with the start of the fourth month arriving, I'd have paid $60 and counting for VIP. By the end of month six, my Ranger account with three months of leveling a Ranger skill at full speed would be just as strong of a Ranger as a VIP account leveling a Ranger skill at half speed.
And it only gets worse from there. After a year, the two accounts approach leaves me considerably stronger than one account with VIP, as I effectively have nine months of leveling a Ranger skill rather than six. And regardless of when I quit, at all times, I have paid less money with the two accounts approach than one account with VIP.
My question is, does this break down, and if so, how? Is there some major advantage to the same account being able to play both a Ranger and a Myrmidon effectively rather than them being two separate accounts? For example, is it impossible to pass materials back and forth between my accounts? I'm aware that passing materials between worlds is limited, but what stops both accounts from playing on the same world? Does tight guild space mean that guilds wouldn't want to make room for me if I'm splitting time between multiple accounts? Is there some major advantage to a leatherworker being able to drop his crafting and fight effectively at a few seconds notice?
Because if it doesn't break down, then we're back to the point of the thread title: I don't get the point of VIP.
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I looked at that other long running thread but it was too hard to discern the wheat from the chaff.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That said, I don't think that's all set in stone yet either. As someone who has watched all the livestreams in the background while doing other things I don't recall them mentioning VIP at all in any of them.
My gut would say that it will get another pass/iteration before the game launches. I wouldn't try to plan anything based on the current plan for implementation.
VIP membership provides a few additional benefits:
- VIP members can train three class skills at any time (instead of just one),
- Priority access to all game servers,
- VIP frame / badge on the forums,
- Discount pricing on any purchases,
- Other cool (but not game balance-affecting) benefits, as we think of them!
It's actually 2 classes, 2 races and 2 professions, whereas non-VIP can only train 1 of each.VIP players can store more time in skill training before spending it. Non-VIP players can only store up to 3 days. VIP players can store up to 30 days.
They've also talked about convenience things like an app or website where you can manage your skills outside the game. That would probably be a post-launch thing, but definitely nice to have.
For any post-launch stuff, VIP players might get access to the Test server and therefore get first crack at the new content. They haven't said anything about that afaik, but that seems like an easy and logical benefit that wouldn't give VIP players an advantage.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I found this write up from April of this year, if I understand correctly if you buy two separate accounts you can train each in 3 skills at 100%
VIP accounts will get to train a primary skill at 100%, plus chose 3 more skills (not two in the same tree) at likely a reduced training rate.
The advantage is VIP players have all their skills available to their one character.
Even better, skill training is account specific. (Not just for VIP) Any skills trained apply to any character on the account, guess if you wish to roll spy alts or something.
So VIP makes more skills available on a single character, but perhaps less total skill than 2 separate accounts would provide.
Read through yourself, its not easy to decipher and subject to change I'm sure.
https://crowfall.com/en/news/articles/skill-training-mechanics-and-you-2
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A non VIP member can train 1 skill tree in every catagory so 3 skill trees total. No disadvantage since you can't use multiple trees on one character at the same time.
Also, the catagories are fixed. One deals with exploration, crafting etc. One deals with races and their bonuses and one deals with classes. Note that you can already play everything, the skill trees just give bonuses to that which you choose.
Its an incredible fair system to both VIP and non-VIP players really. And as I have stated before, VIP members get priority when logging in, that is worth the money alone for serious players, the rest is just a nice bonus.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
FTP rules in a BTP game.
Since when do we whine about subs and box prices around here? You had no choice back in "the golden days," it was pay your sub or don't play at all....
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
And if you think paying your VIP fee makes you more competitive, well.. that's just pay to win really isn't it... which is something I hadn't even thought of until you said it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Game studios have gotten way too good at deceptive pricing. You don't have to be too much of a cynic to think that is the single most significant MMORPG advancement in the past 10 years.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The idea that queue priority is a measure taken to discourage multiple accounts is absurd, switching characters takes time with or without a queue, or do you think the game will be such a massive success that the queues will be terribly long? I think people that pay a sub should have an advantage, why else would they sub at all? Faster logging in (20 secs instead of 2 minutes, not 10 secs instead of an hour) is completely harmless except for the absolute top guilds that want to be everywhere asap on their world. The advantage of VIP is that you can have it all on one account, it saves hassle yes, it should.
I think you are overtly negative tbh and I really can't think of an MMO that does it more fair.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
In the first week to possibly the first month it very well could be a difference of a few seconds vs and hour when logging in. That would be an extreme situation, I'm aware. It happens, though. When Neverwinter launched the queues to log in were about 1.5 hours for the first 2 weeks.
I've no idea how logging in faster could help guilds be competitive. You mentioned that, not me. You certainly think it's going to matter. 1 minute 40 seconds is probably enough time to kill someone, I think someone joining the fight that much earlier could have quite an impact, but it's just speculation. A whole guild doing it.. could be a game changer. It's possible is all I'm saying.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Realize this game is a series of multiple "campaigns" limited to 2000 concurrent logins per campaign. (Server)
While there will be more than one campaign running, they won't all be running the same rulesets.
Some will be faction based, some FFA PVP, some with more aggressive rulesets which the devs "hope " will encourage players to step out of their comfort zones. (Where have I heard that before?)
So, without VIP access you very well could find yourself in a queue for either your preferred campaign ruleset, or be forced to login on a less desirable (or popular) campaign.
Assuming of course this game will be popular enough to even need to run more than one campaign per season.
More can be read here in the FAQ on how its supposed to work, subject to change of course.
https://crowfall.com/en/faq/gameplay-and-systems/campaign/
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Another thing is their engine performance, it seems that they'll soft launch with only 500-1000 concurrent players cap per server, while having the server further broken down into areas (sub-servers!?) connected with runegates, one of ways they are trying to solve lag/FPS issue.
Speaking of VIP, as others noted nothing is set in stone. The studio already did a couple of major changes based on our fedback (and people on Crowfall forums can be VERY loud when it comes to such a hot and controversial topic!).
We already had dozens of debates about buying multiple accounts being more valuable than VIP, and devs would - of course! - prefer VIP to be the way. Anyway, what would you want to be their moneymaker, since box sales can't do it in the long run, cash shop maybe? You know how that ends.
Probably best to keep the conversation there, unfortunately passions on that subject rage so deeply few bother to read the linked factual info early in the thread (where I've been pulling these links from) and prefer just to "share" their opinions without any real understanding on what they are arguing over.
Kind of devolved to, "its P2W and bad" vs "no its not, nah na nah na, boo boo."
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/472916/is-crowfall-skating-on-p2w-p2a-ice/p1
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Somewhat similar to EVE, players will be able to buy (and build? ) private worlds where they can retreat to and work on some activities and may even include some basic, lower tier gathering, much like hi sec space in EVE.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer