Ryzen 2700x build

MrMonolitas

Hey, i did not want to hi-jack quizzical thread, so here i am. 
I been fumbling with my own build for ryzen 2700x, looking for some aid and your opinions guys. 
https://nl.hardware.info/wensenlijst/3417652/mr-monolitas/wensenlijst-1




I took consideration some of your thoughts already. 
The reason im picking up that motherboard is to have included bluetooth 5.0 only gigabyte seems to have that feature. Less dongles, less head ache. 

Memorry QVL list: https://www.docdroid.net/lxiprKB/mb-memory-x470-aorus-gaming-5-wifi.pdf

Dont have clear budget, want ryzen. All-around pc gaming/workstation. 

zaberfangx

I was you I would get ram with Low Latency and higher frequeny. If you want to get best speed out of the ryzen cpu.

Quizzical

zaberfangx said:

I was you I would get ram with Low Latency and higher frequeny. If you want to get best speed out of the ryzen cpu.

That can add a lot to the price tag.  Cheapest 1.2 V, 2x16 GB kit on New Egg right now:

2666 MHz:  $297
2933 MHz:  $446
3200 MHz:  $443

It's cheaper to hit a given clock speed if you're willing to overvolt it to 1.35 V to hit those speeds, but that's a much more severe form of overclocking.  1.2 V is the stock voltage for DDR4, and the only thing that any of the major memory fabs are willing to promise will actually work:

https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/dram/ddr4/
https://www.micron.com/products/dram/ddr4-sdram/ddr4-sdram-part-catalog#/

(Hynix does something weird to not allow a direct link to their DDR4 part list, but the results are similar:  1.2 V only.)

Vrika

I'd buy GTX 1060 3GB instead of RX 580. RX 580 is a bit faster, but not so much faster that you should pay 80€ extra to get it.
  https://nl.hardware.info/product/361054/msi-geforce-gtx-1060-gaming-x-3gb

This is assuming that you're happy gaming at 1080p and 60hz monitor. If you've got higher resolution or refresh rate then you should look at the 500€ GPUs.

MrMonolitas

Vrika said:

I'd buy GTX 1060 3GB instead of RX 580. RX 580 is a bit faster, but not so much faster that you should pay 80€ extra to get it.
  https://nl.hardware.info/product/361054/msi-geforce-gtx-1060-gaming-x-3gb

This is assuming that you're happy gaming at 1080p and 60hz monitor. If you've got higher resolution or refresh rate then you should look at the 500€ GPUs.

Well it is 3gb versus 8gb card.  1440p or 1080p 144hz 8gb will be more capable running those things i assume. 

Quizzical

The refresh rate has zero impact on GPU memory requirements.  Monitor resolution used to be a major factor, but has become much less of one over the years.  Higher resolution textures is the big thing that consumes a ton of GPU memory, but every game will have some minimum required and choke if you don't have enough.

While GPU prices have come down considerably over the course of the last several months, they're still inflated due to the cryptocurrency mining craze--and AMD GPUs are inflated more than Nvidia because they're better at mining.  An 8 GB Radeon RX 580 has an MSRP of $229, for example.  That prices are high right now is unfortunate, but it's reality.

It might be memory prices in part that are driving GPU prices up.  Memory prices are very high right now, too, and 8 GB simply costs more than 3 GB.  Look at what you're paying for DDR4, for example; I'd be surprised if high-performance GDDR5 is cheaper per GB than common DDR4.  The price per GB of DDR4 today is much higher than it was for DDR3 around the end of 2011, even though the long term trend is for the price per GB to drop by half about every two years or so.

Vrika

albers said:

Vrika said:

I'd buy GTX 1060 3GB instead of RX 580. RX 580 is a bit faster, but not so much faster that you should pay 80€ extra to get it.
  https://nl.hardware.info/product/361054/msi-geforce-gtx-1060-gaming-x-3gb

This is assuming that you're happy gaming at 1080p and 60hz monitor. If you've got higher resolution or refresh rate then you should look at the 500€ GPUs.

Well it is 3gb versus 8gb card.  1440p or 1080p 144hz 8gb will be more capable running those things i assume. 

Yes it's more capable.

But if you look for example at hardwareinfo.nl's results, RX 580 gets 85,8 in their Full HD test
  https://nl.hardware.info/product/456505/asrock-radeon-rx-580-phantom-gaming-x-oc-8gb/testresultaten

Compared to 79,6 for that 80€ cheaper GTX 1060 3GB
   https://nl.hardware.info/product/361054/msi-geforce-gtx-1060-gaming-x-3gb/testresultaten

The question is not whether it's more capable, the question is whether it's worth the price.



Or if price doesn't matter and you want to get 144hz while gaming, then I'd suggest looking something like GTX 1070 Ti, GTX 1080 or GTX 1080 Ti. You can use the full power of even GTX 1080 Ti when trying to get 144 FPS, and even that won't be enough to maintain it using max. graphic settings in many of the modern games.

MrMonolitas

I do not really consider nVidia gpu because of gsync. Getting amd gpu it will be cheaper to go for freesync monitor than having gtx. Spending 80 euros more and then getting  freesync equivalent is better in my eyes , than buying gtx 3gb and then getting to pay 150 extra gsync tax. Also amd 8gb will might last longer since it has enough of vram, and so far we see games which require more and more. It does make it have higher resale value. GDDR6 will come out soon, but when new gpus will show up with those. 

MrMonolitas

Torval said:

If you're going 2700X I would consider putting a little more money into memory and into the cooler. It depends on your workload though. If you're not going to heavily OC then you don't need to. Cooler and memory have a direct impact on CPU clocking and performance, that is the thing to consider when choose a price point.

I've read good things about the Gigabyte Gaming 5 and 7.

You build is nearly exactly what I've put together on PCPartpicker. I like Western Digital Reds for local hdd storage, but Seagate is fine too.

WD reds(5400 rpm,), i seen its kinda slower than this barracuda (7200 rpm) and more expensive. 

I dont consider ocing at start. there is no reason to. I will be completely happy with prism. 

Vrika

albers said:

I do not really consider nVidia gpu because of gsync. Getting amd gpu it will be cheaper to go for freesync monitor than having gtx. Spending 80 euros more and then getting  freesync equivalent is better in my eyes , than buying gtx 3gb and then getting to pay 150 extra gsync tax. Also amd 8gb will might last longer since it has enough of vram, and so far we see games which require more and more. It does make it have higher resale value. GDDR6 will come out soon, but when new gpus will show up with those. 

If you've got FreeSync capable monitor or are buying one right now, then that might be a reason to go RX 580 instead of GTX 1060.




NVidia is rumored to reveal their new GDDR6 GPUs next month, but I think you're now placing too much emphasis on memory. GPU stands for graphic processing unit, and the memory doesn't process a single thing, it's just there to hold data for the device that does the processing. If there's not enough or not fast enough memory you will see a speed decrease because the device can't do processing, but once there's enough data for the device to process additional memory capacity or speed will give you zero advantage because memory does zero processing.

Ridelynn

albers said:

I do not really consider nVidia gpu because of gsync. Getting amd gpu it will be cheaper to go for freesync monitor than having gtx. 

That is actually a very valid reason to consider AMD, if VRR is something you are particularly interested in. Freesync is significantly less expensive than GSync across the board. I wouldn't necessarily go out and get and AMD just because I had a Freesync monitor, but the opposite isn't necessarily true. You aren't paying anything extra for Freesync, but if you invest in Gsync, you've invested in nVidia period and it would be silly to pay all that extra on a monitor otherwise.

If I were going to use VRR, I would consider the cost of the monitor as part of the overall cost of the entire gaming rig, and that makes nVidia a significantly more expensive option even if the GPU is on price parity or even slightly less expensive.

The difference between 6G and 8G, I would say, is pretty minimal. The difference between 3G and 8G is a pretty big gulf though. As to ~if~ you need it or not, would depend on a lot of other things and I couldn't speak to that particular point.

For RAM - I would say faster is better, but I wouldn't pay a lot extra for faster. The more important thing is making sure it's on the QVL for the motherboard you have picked out to ensure it will work. Zen is a bit more lenient now than when it first came out, but I hear it is still a bit more picky than being able to just pick anything at random and expecting it to work out of the box.

Cleffy

Never go GTX 1060 3GB. It's not comparable to the RX 580 at all. Not sure why people say get it and show data with the GTX 1060 6GB. They aren't the same card. Also GTX 1060 verse RX 580 data tends to be old.
Other than that your build is very similar to my current build, So I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

aRtFuLThinG

Quizzical said:

zaberfangx said:

I was you I would get ram with Low Latency and higher frequeny. If you want to get best speed out of the ryzen cpu.

That can add a lot to the price tag.  Cheapest 1.2 V, 2x16 GB kit on New Egg right now:

2666 MHz:  $297
2933 MHz:  $446
3200 MHz:  $443

It's cheaper to hit a given clock speed if you're willing to overvolt it to 1.35 V to hit those speeds, but that's a much more severe form of overclocking.  1.2 V is the stock voltage for DDR4, and the only thing that any of the major memory fabs are willing to promise will actually work:

https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/dram/ddr4/
https://www.micron.com/products/dram/ddr4-sdram/ddr4-sdram-part-catalog#/

(Hynix does something weird to not allow a direct link to their DDR4 part list, but the results are similar:  1.2 V only.)

He can think about possibly reducing the size of the SSD down to 512GB to make up for the increase in getting better rams. That should come out at around the same figure overall, if that cost is a factor.

1TB SSD is a bit of overkill if all he stores is games, OS and app on the SSD (I mean, how many games is he planning to leave on there lol? 10 installed at a time is already an overkill).

wanderica

On the memory: Ryzen processors use the Infinity Fabric for communication between modules, and the speed at which it communicates is tied directly to the memory speed.  Latency seems to be the limiting factor in games, and the reason Intel is still slightly better in CPU limited scenarios. 

Only you can decide whether opting for faster memory is worth the cost.  Personally, I went with a 3200 MHz / 14 CL G.Skill kit for my 2700X, and I can tell a difference.  Your experience may differ.  Anandtech did a memory speed comparison about a year ago, and wrote a pretty good article on it, and most of the YouTube reviewers have done so as well.  It was a year ago on the 1700X, but it should still apply, even though Ryzen 2 reduced memory latencies for better performance.  https://www.anandtech.com/show/11857/memory-scaling-on-ryzen-7-with-team-groups-night-hawk-rgb  Give that a read before you make up your mind.  Everything else looks great, and I'd hate for memory choice to be your limiting factor.  Memory choice became slightly more complicated with Ryzen.

One final thing:  Someone over at Overclockers.net made a Ryzen memory calculator to help new and experienced overclockers get the most out of their memory.  It's a fantastic little program that's easy to use, and it should take a lot of the guess work out of OCing your memory.  It's especially useful if you opt for a slower speed kit as a cost cutting measure.

GL, I know you'll love that new rig.

wanderica

albers said:

Hey, i did not want to hi-jack quizzical thread, so here i am. 
I been fumbling with my own build for ryzen 2700x, looking for some aid and your opinions guys. 
https://nl.hardware.info/wensenlijst/3417652/mr-monolitas/wensenlijst-1




I took consideration some of your thoughts already. 
The reason im picking up that motherboard is to have included bluetooth 5.0 only gigabyte seems to have that feature. Less dongles, less head ache. 

Memorry QVL list: https://www.docdroid.net/lxiprKB/mb-memory-x470-aorus-gaming-5-wifi.pdf

Dont have clear budget, want ryzen. All-around pc gaming/workstation. 

Missed your last comment there.  That CVL has the wrong speeds listed if that's what you're going by.  The G.Skill kit listed 5th from the top, for example, is a CL14 3200 MHz kit, not 2133 MHz like the document says.  The part number usually has the speed in it if it helps.  Officially, Ryzen only supports 2933 MHz, but XMP profiles (easily set in the BIOS from a drop down menu) allow to you use much, much faster memory.

Also, since budget isn't really a limiting factor, consider upgrading the cooler.  That Wraith Prism is pretty good, and will even allow some overclocking (night and day from Intel's stock coolers, for example), but Ryzen benefits a good bit from better cooling.  Something like a Noctua NH-D15 should allow max XFR (AMD's turbo) with little added noise.  The Prism may get a little loud and warm if you get aggressive.

MrMonolitas

t0nyd said:

Im curious as to why you are going with 32gb of ram. For most people thats a waste. That is if you are trying to budget. Another thing I would change is the nvme drive down to 500 gig and use it mostly as a boot drive with only specific programs installed, like antivirus. Id go with a 1 tb ssd for games and what not. I have networked storage for movies, music, and pics.

I prefer this set up because it makes it easy to format when needed since all your games and data are on other drives.

I was thinking the same way as you did, but eventually you can get 1tb nvme for nice speeds and then partition it into smaller ones, that would be good solution to store windows in one separate partition.

Ram speeds from what i have seen, does not give me much in video games. 2666 vs 3200 gives you 10-15 more frames in video game? And you pay way more than for 2666, in my eyes i cant justify the cost of that. And does ram speeds matter in other tasks? mmm... not sure about that...

And capacity 32gb is just to save myself a headache, as it is workstation, all arounder, do not want to limit myself from 4k rendering or other work. Also want to dedicate some rams for recording, do not want to wear off my ssd or hdd while doing that.

The G.Skill kit listed 5th from the top, for example, is a CL14 3200 MHz kit, not 2133 MHz like the document says.

That is the native speed of that ram stick which was overclocked as i understand that.

Ganksinatra

My son just got a Ryzen 5 2400G and it works splendidly. But to be fair, he only really plays World of Warcraft and other games with less graphic requirements. But it works amazing for them without  discrete card.

wanderica

albers said:

That is the native speed of that ram stick which was overclocked as i understand that

Yes, but they're binned at the factory and rated for that speed and timings at a specific voltage (1.35 IIRC).  It won't void warranties in other words as long as you use your motherboard's preset XMP profile.  Technically, it's an "overclock," but don't let that scare you off.  XMP is literally a drop-down menu in the bios where you select your memory's speed and CAS Latency.  Timings and voltage will be auto-set based on manufacturer's settings.  You'll have no issues as long as you stick with your memory manufacturer's rated speed, timings, and voltage, which is made easy-mode with XMP.

With the kit you listed, you may be able to overclock it, but you'll likely be manually raising voltage and loosening timings to run it above the manufacturer's rated speed.  You can always run memory at a speed lower than it's rated for, but running it higher gets more difficult.  If you can justify the added cost, I say get the faster memory.  Ryzen really likes it.

Quizzical

A number of the comments here about memory clock speed and a CPU cooler are talking about how to spend a lot more money to get a little bit more CPU performance.  While they're correct that it will give a little bit more CPU performance, I don't think that little bit more CPU performance will particularly matter.  Depending on budget and preferences, getting faster memory and a bigger CPU cooler could be a reasonable thing to do.  But if it were my money (and it was, just last week), that's not where I'd spend it.

There aren't any DDR4 SDRAM chips binned at the factory to run at 1.35 V, or at least not if you regard the factory as the one that made the memory chips.  The company that builds memory modules does their own binning to run memory at higher clock speeds and voltages than the fab recommends, and they will offer a warranty on the memory modules.  But there is some loss of reliability when you do this, and that's inevitable just from the physics.  It's comparable to getting a video card with a large factory overclock.

It also depends some on how much you value reliability.  If it's just a gaming rig and it wouldn't be that bad if it's out of commission for a few days, then some factory overclocking may well be reasonable.  If it's your work computer and a part failure means that you can't work for a few days until it gets fixed, then I'd avoid that.

Quizzical

t0nyd said:

I'm at 3.8 GHz stable on a 1700x with stock voltage. Rams at 3400. Overclocking is pretty easy and you get significant results in gaming. I'm sure the new chips and mobo will be more stable.

Hard OCP found that leaving a Ryzen 7 2700X at stock speeds and letting AMD's Precision Boost 2 handle clock speeds dynamically commonly gave better results than the best overclock they could do by hand.

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/04/30/amd_precision_boost_2_wraith_prism_deep_dive/6

MrMonolitas

I placed the order as it is. Will be getting some parts tomorrow and whats left next week. Will let you know how it is when it is completed. For now, im confident with this build! 

MrMonolitas

Alright, so pc is in the case!

Didnt really have any troubles assembling it, the cooler was just weird to install, it made all kinds of creaking, scratching noises also it didnt have any screws. 
m.2 slot is in weird place, did not think about it at all, its behind the graphics card, so if you want to remove it, you need to remove GPU too, thats just weird.



Still did not figure it out how to turn off rgb on Wraith Prism

It seems for now everything working fine, except i have problems with the main feature why i chose this motherboard BLUETOOTH! I dont know what it is, but it is horrendous, the range of blue tooth is so small! if you sit and twist your head to other side, the sound disconnects. Even my old phone has better way better range than this 5.0 bluetooth which supposedly should have even higher range... Maybe anyone can help me with this? Where should i look into to fix this? 

EDIT: Bluetooth fixed. Now it works very well, the reason it didnt work good, was that i did not screw in wifi antena...

Forgot to mention that it produces quiet some noise, but as it is pretty open case, you could expect that.

MrMonolitas

One thing i have noticed my GPU runs pretty hot? While playing video game i got 88C 100% load on my graphic card and its idling now at 50-53C. 

Vrika

albers said:

One thing i have noticed my GPU runs pretty hot? While playing video game i got 88C 100% load on my graphic card and its idling now at 50-53C. 

I think those temps are still ok. The card isn't trying to keep itself as cool as possible, it looks like your temperature limit is set to 90 Celsius which means while gaming its trying to keep itself as silent as possible and clocked as high as possible while not exceeding the 90C temperature limit.

If the card has to throttle its clock speeds a lot while gaming then that's a problem, but reaching temperatures close to 90C doesn't mean there would be a problem.

MrMonolitas

Vrika said:

albers said:

One thing i have noticed my GPU runs pretty hot? While playing video game i got 88C 100% load on my graphic card and its idling now at 50-53C. 

I think those temps are still ok. The card isn't trying to keep itself as cool as possible, it looks like your temperature limit is set to 90 Celsius which means while gaming its trying to keep itself as silent as possible and clocked as high as possible while not exceeding the 90C temperature limit.

If the card has to throttle its clock speeds a lot while gaming then that's a problem, but reaching temperatures close to 90C doesn't mean there would be a problem.

I was reading some internets, and people claim to have steady 30c on this and other cards, 30 to 50 idle i think is a big difference And its stock settings for me. 

Cleffy

AMD cards tend to run hot. You can try AMD Chill to keep the temps down when its not necessary.