Would you do an MMO afterlife?

Vermillion_Raventhal

Saw this on Black Mirror.  They have a VR world you can visit.  It seems for the terminal only.  You can also upon death be uploaded there.  There only seemed to be a paradise world beach world with different time era's.

Assuming that your literal consciousness is being uploaded and not copied... would you want to be uploaded a VR gaming network at death?  

TheScavenger

There isn't many games I'd actually want to be a part of in real life. Of the games that are my personal favorite...

In WoW...you'd be screwed. Starve and be homeless as a human (which is vast majority of humans, as seen in westfall) or deal with all kinds of nasty things (Redridge and Duskwood as two examples). Or the constant invasions, cataclysms and old gods and all kinds of things...not to mention the racial wars that are even worse than on earth.

And that be the only MMO I'd want to be a part of, and it be terrible to be a part of for real.

Then only other ones I like are non-MMO games

The Elder Scrolls in general would be lame. Tiny cities that aren't even cities and not even the size of village. On top of that, danger all over and all kinds of nasty things that appear at night.

Fallout is in itself self explanatory

And yeah, I know not an MMO. But, I guess I'd want to join one of the steam hentai game worlds. No danger there if choose the right one and uh...lots of fun time

Vermillion_Raventhal

I mean yeah some of the worlds are just filled to the brim with hostiles.  They would have to balance it for real world living.  I would also hope you could change games as well.  

iixviiiix

Yes ,

i want to see how the world become in future , to 2100 and 2200 . i hope i live long enough to see the sci-fic become true . Then maybe i will rest in peace at that time lol , the curious is one reason worth to keep you alive .

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blamo2000

No for me too.  I am against personal data collection and nothing could be a more egregious example of personal data collection than literally turning people into data.  

My favorite Black Mirror episode is the one where society revolves around people rating each other and the lady trying to get to the wedding.  I absolutely loved the message of that one.

I enjoyed the episode you mentioned but I think since they failed to address cost or monetization they missed out on the real work implications to focus on a much less interesting aspect of it.  They'd probably make all the people in it work in a digital call center, and milk everything that digital world with charges - door charge to get into the bar, etc.

SaunZ

we already are uploaded after death... duh

Sz 

Cryomatrix

If you asked me if i wanted to live forever, it would be tough, but if you asked me if i wanted to live for 1000 years, i would say hell yeah.

Im 37 now, i cant wait until im 77 to see all the changes in technology and health care.

Humans will always be stupid killing each other over stupid crap, but the technology and health care advances would be a marvel.

A goal i wish to have is to work until i am 100 years old. I could tell medical students that im so old, i got chicken pox. Who knows, maybe when i am 100, no one will get the flu or the common cold.

Octagon7711

Perhaps life and death are more complex then our understanding of it.  Energy isn't created or destroyed, it just changes into another state.  Scientist use to say there was nothing there until they developed the instruments which allowed them to see further then their natural senses allowed.

In some of the games I've played they did have some very nice little villages, nice and peaceful.  Especially after you cleared out all the evil.

Cryomatrix

Also, i fully expect my afterlife to be in my favorite gameworld where i have all these superpowers and can experience it like real life where if i die i get rezzed and start again. 

Have you ever dreamed like you were an in-game character, that is what i want my afterlife to be like.

Iselin

DMKano said:

Octagon7711 said:

Perhaps life and death are more complex then our understanding of it.  Energy isn't created or destroyed, it just changes into another state.  Scientist use to say there was nothing there until they developed the instruments which allowed them to see further then their natural senses allowed.

In some of the games I've played they did have some very nice little villages, nice and peaceful.  Especially after you cleared out all the evil.

I respectfully disagree. Life and death are clearly understood cycles of living organisms. Life is not the same as energy that can't be destroyed - the atoms and molecules that are building blocks of living organisms do persist, but the organism does not.

The laws of conservation of energy apply to physics not life.

Its unfortunate that a lot of the spiritual/religious and new age teachings have completely taken the law of conservation of energy out of context to somehow apply to "life/living organisms" having everlasting existence. This is sadly not what is meant at all - life is not included by science in this equation. 

It's even more of a head scratcher when it's applied exclusively to human life but not to that of other animals.

GameolioDan

What happens when hackers pop in for a little 'fun' and upload everyone to a virtual hell? Yikes!

Vermillion_Raventhal

For me to be able to live in another world would be a dream I'll never see.  Earth replica I could explore. Planets in the universe as they are explored.  Being able to be visited descendant would be cool.  Maybe even being able to come back in robot or do video com.  

It would have to actually be me and not a copy though.  Not sure that is possible.  

Vermillion_Raventhal

DMKano said:

Iselin said:

DMKano said:

Octagon7711 said:

Perhaps life and death are more complex then our understanding of it.  Energy isn't created or destroyed, it just changes into another state.  Scientist use to say there was nothing there until they developed the instruments which allowed them to see further then their natural senses allowed.

In some of the games I've played they did have some very nice little villages, nice and peaceful.  Especially after you cleared out all the evil.

I respectfully disagree. Life and death are clearly understood cycles of living organisms. Life is not the same as energy that can't be destroyed - the atoms and molecules that are building blocks of living organisms do persist, but the organism does not.

The laws of conservation of energy apply to physics not life.

Its unfortunate that a lot of the spiritual/religious and new age teachings have completely taken the law of conservation of energy out of context to somehow apply to "life/living organisms" having everlasting existence. This is sadly not what is meant at all - life is not included by science in this equation. 

It's even more of a head scratcher when it's applied exclusively to human life but not to that of other animals.

Why not bacteria, nematodes, and other single cell parasites that are the most abundant life forms on the planet.... even viruses play a key role 

That is my question - the single cell organisms enable all life on earth, no complex organisms would be able to survive without all the supporting single cell friends.

Humans would die without all the bacteria in our gut that aid digestion for example.

All life on Earth is highly interconnected and interdependent. Taking everything out of the equation and only focusing on humans - that's a damn shame.

You could say even complex life is just single celled creatures in a complex symbiotic relationship using DNA blueprints.

ConstantineMerus

I love the definitive answers on this topic. Just remember guys, it was doubt that has brought us so far. And it is a strange day, when a non-religious person has to remind apparently other non-religious people of this. 

ConstantineMerus

DMKano said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

It would have to actually be me and not a copy though.  Not sure that is possible.  

This keeps coming up "would have to be me - not a copy", but how would you know?

If we had a molecular assembler that could make a perfect copy of your brain with every neuron connection replicated 100% at a subatomic level - you wouldn't know. And let's say the copy of your brain had it's own consciousness and felt as real as you do - so to that brain you would be a copy - see what I am getting at?

Same goes with consciousness uploading - how would you know its "you" and not just a simulation that feels like you?

That's the tricky thing about consciousness - we make many assumptions about the nature of consciousness that are probably completely wrong. 

The latest models even suggest that consciousness is a side effect of higher brain function and is actually a survival mechanism, something that feels real to us but is just an illusion to keep us from destroying ourselves.

Reminded of the book/movie 'The Prestige':

"It took courage... it took courage to climb into that machine every night... not knowing... if I'd be the man in the box... or the prestige."

It gets me every time. 

Vermillion_Raventhal

DMKano said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

It would have to actually be me and not a copy though.  Not sure that is possible.  

This keeps coming up "would have to be me - not a copy", but how would you know?

If we had a molecular assembler that could make a perfect copy of your brain with every neuron connection replicated 100% at a subatomic level - you wouldn't know. And let's say the copy of your brain had it's own consciousness and felt as real as you do - so to that brain you would be a copy - see what I am getting at?

Same goes with consciousness uploading - how would you know its "you" and not just a simulation that feels like you?

That's the tricky thing about consciousness - we make many assumptions about the nature of consciousness that are probably completely wrong. 

The latest models even suggest that consciousness is a side effect of higher brain function and is actually a survival mechanism, something that feels real to us but is just an illusion to keep us from destroying ourselves.

I would think consciousness is just having the intelligence to piece together your senses, instincts and memory into something personable. Language also seems huge in who you are because of how integrated it is in thought.  I always wondered how thought processes would be without language or why we can simulate sound in our minds.  

I would assume you would know it is you by using the same method for temporary VR upload. That certainly is the requirement.  Star Trek runs into this problem. Are all the crew members clones after teleportation? 

Phaserlight

iixviiiix said:

Yes ,

i want to see how the world become in future , to 2100 and 2200 . i hope i live long enough to see the sci-fic become true . Then maybe i will rest in peace at that time lol , the curious is one reason worth to keep you alive .

Serious question: how do you know this won't already be the case without any sort of technological deus ex machina?

I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible, although this isn't a popular thing to say on the internet nowadays. Just look at the phenomena of near death or psychedelic experiences; these have much to teach us about liminal states, without any particular religious leanings. 

Phaserlight

Furthermore, think about it rationally: setting aside people that have been clinically dead for minutes or those under the influence of a particular substance, there hasn't been anyone who has returned from the dead after years to definitively state "this is what happens". Those who state consciousness ends at death have as much evidence as those who claim it continues. It's tempting to take a skeptical approach here and to those that do I say "cheers!".

However, I think there is a good rational argument to be made for consciousness after death. 

Scorchien

I feel bad for all you Mortals ... ahh well . ... Life goes on as they say

Vermillion_Raventhal

Phaserlight said:

iixviiiix said:

Yes ,

i want to see how the world become in future , to 2100 and 2200 . i hope i live long enough to see the sci-fic become true . Then maybe i will rest in peace at that time lol , the curious is one reason worth to keep you alive .

Serious question: how do you know this won't already be the case without any sort of technological deus ex machina?

I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible, although this isn't a popular thing to say on the internet nowadays. Just look at the phenomena of near death or psychedelic experiences; these have much to teach us about liminal states, without any particular religious leanings. 

I think some of those things are just the dying brain.  I doubt any afterlife will involve your sense and maybe even your consciousness.  Those are things of your body.  

Scorchien

DMKano said:

Scorchien said:

I feel bad for all you Mortals ... ahh well . ... Life goes on as they say

Life goes on..... without me

Well until the technological singularity is reached or more likely some kind of extinction event (natural or self-inflicted)

The Fermi paradox is rather curious, isn't it? 

Its been confirmed ....   Ask this guy ..

Amathe

So how long before the VR gaming company that uploaded me closes up shop? 10 years? 25 years? That sounds like a pretty brief afterlife. 

Also, what happens when my VR world bugs out? Now I am in some perpetual nightmare that I can't awaken from while I wait for some tech to fix my world. 

Phaserlight

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

Phaserlight said:

iixviiiix said:

Yes ,

i want to see how the world become in future , to 2100 and 2200 . i hope i live long enough to see the sci-fic become true . Then maybe i will rest in peace at that time lol , the curious is one reason worth to keep you alive .

Serious question: how do you know this won't already be the case without any sort of technological deus ex machina?

I see no reason why it wouldn't be possible, although this isn't a popular thing to say on the internet nowadays. Just look at the phenomena of near death or psychedelic experiences; these have much to teach us about liminal states, without any particular religious leanings. 

I think some of those things are just the dying brain.  I doubt any afterlife will involve your sense and maybe even your consciousness.  Those are things of your body.  

Most psychologists would likely agree.  There are some notable departures, however, such as the fledgling "integrated information theory" which doesn't require a human brain for consciousness.  It also depends on what we mean by consciousness.  As with Jung, you also have the Ego bound up in there, somewhere.  So... it's not just a wakeful state but meta-cognition; the way I experience sitting at a chair, typing at a keyboard, my thoughts about what I'm typing.

I don't know if artificial consciousness is possible, and I'm also not convinced that consciousness is wholly of my body.  If I can fall back on rationalism (again): my intuition has been for many years that I am part of a system that includes my body but is not limited to it.  I don't think that the "brain in a jar" scenario is quite possible; reality as perceived is somewhat dependent on subjective consciousness.  This sounds self-evident, but if you break down the materialist argument that consciousness arises completely as a result of neural activity then there must be an objective reality that is completely independent of consciousness.  Reality, then, wouldn't "care" whether anyone observes it.

...see for yourself whether this is the case.

Sovrath

Absolutely not! What Jean Luc Picard said.

I'd rather be uploaded to a robot body.

Octagon7711

They had some interesting ideas in Black Mirror like making a virtual duplicate of a person to use as a home assistant, or creating multiple simulated dating situations lasting for virtual years until the simulation found the right person for you. 

I wonder how many people would be able to live with an exact duplicate of themselves?