Alot of people are saying that they don't understand the current market. Personally I think they do and they realize that modern MMOs are crap and that is why all the current MMOs are generally failing.
I think they also realize that you don't have subscription numbers in the millions for a game to be successful. EQ1 was widely considered the most successful MMO of its time and I don't think it ever broke 250k subscribers. Even SWTOR said that the game would be profitable at 500k subscribers and they spent several hundred million on that game. Hell we could look at EVE Online which put out like 2 major expansions a year and still has a strong player base because I don't think they every broke 350k subscribers.
As for the modern market, don't want them, can't stand them, please don't let them into my game or accommodate them in any way. If they want to play Pantheon, let them adapt to Pantheon, don't adapt the game to them. I just returned to EQ1 after an 18 year absence and by far I am having more fun than any modern MMO that has came out in the last 10 years. The whole experience so far has made it very clear to me that the casual crowd who wants everything handed to them, is what has ruined the entire MMO industry. Having to group to accomplish things is so much more fun than rushing through everything solo. Dying 3-4 times in a night on occasion because the camp to get your epic piece is so difficult you want to cry, only to have it all be made worth it the second you actually get the drop is amazing. Having areas of the map be so deadly that you have to have a well coordinated group to even attempt exploring it is priceless. Hell not being held by the hand and told where to go or what to do is pretty damn amazing in its own right.
I wish they were not dispensing with arrows. I remember in EQ taking out my fletching kit and making my own ammo. That kind of thing made me feel like a Ranger and to me was fun. This feels like one of what may yet be many steps to come where old school mechanics hit the cutting room floor.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Alot of people are saying that they don't understand the current market. Personally I think they do and they realize that modern MMOs are crap and that is why all the current MMOs are generally failing.
I think they also realize that you don't have subscription numbers in the millions for a game to be successful. EQ1 was widely considered the most successful MMO of its time and I don't think it ever broke 250k subscribers. Even SWTOR said that the game would be profitable at 500k subscribers and they spent several hundred million on that game. Hell we could look at EVE Online which put out like 2 major expansions a year and still has a strong player base because I don't think they every broke 350k subscribers.
As for the modern market, don't want them, can't stand them, please don't let them into my game or accommodate them in any way. If they want to play Pantheon, let them adapt to Pantheon, don't adapt the game to them. I just returned to EQ1 after an 18 year absence and by far I am having more fun than any modern MMO that has came out in the last 10 years. The whole experience so far has made it very clear to me that the casual crowd who wants everything handed to them, is what has ruined the entire MMO industry. Having to group to accomplish things is so much more fun than rushing through everything solo. Dying 3-4 times in a night on occasion because the camp to get your epic piece is so difficult you want to cry, only to have it all be made worth it the second you actually get the drop is amazing. Having areas of the map be so deadly that you have to have a well coordinated group to even attempt exploring it is priceless. Hell not being held by the hand and told where to go or what to do is pretty damn amazing in its own right.
You're talking about dailup, dsl, and not many people even having computers to people now having several computers, nearly everyone have a cable connection, and several consoles. This would explain why they were happy with smaller numbers back in the day.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I wish they were not dispensing with arrows. I remember in EQ taking out my fletching kit and making my own ammo. That kind of thing made me feel like a Ranger and to me was fun. This feels like one of what may yet be many steps to come where old school mechanics hit the cutting room floor.
Well, they did mention the creation of "special" arrows. That actually makes some sense and could add to "feeling like a ranger."
Because, in reality, carrying "1,000" arrows is as immersion breaking as "an endless supply of arrows" if one thinks about it.
I'm pretty sure real archers didn't carry 1000+ arrows!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I wish they were not dispensing with arrows. I remember in EQ taking out my fletching kit and making my own ammo. That kind of thing made me feel like a Ranger and to me was fun. This feels like one of what may yet be many steps to come where old school mechanics hit the cutting room floor.
Well they did say special arrows would probably have to be crafted. I think it's just that "unfun" part of crafting tons and tons of arrows that get used up on pretty much every ability. I never liked having to craft consumables that are used after every encounter. It's fun in theory but gets tedious.
I wish they were not dispensing with arrows. I remember in EQ taking out my fletching kit and making my own ammo. That kind of thing made me feel like a Ranger and to me was fun. This feels like one of what may yet be many steps to come where old school mechanics hit the cutting room floor.
I'm pretty sure real archers didn't carry 1000+ arrows!
I never carried 1,000 arrows either.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Like they said you pretty much want to stay away from activities being too tedious.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I wish they were not dispensing with arrows. I remember in EQ taking out my fletching kit and making my own ammo. That kind of thing made me feel like a Ranger and to me was fun. This feels like one of what may yet be many steps to come where old school mechanics hit the cutting room floor.
I'm pretty sure real archers didn't carry 1000+ arrows!
I never carried 1,000 arrows either.
I'm thinking along the lines of Lineage 2 where archers would carry that and more.
So "how many arrows did you carry in Everquest?"
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I wish they were not dispensing with arrows. I remember in EQ taking out my fletching kit and making my own ammo. That kind of thing made me feel like a Ranger and to me was fun. This feels like one of what may yet be many steps to come where old school mechanics hit the cutting room floor.
Well, they did mention the creation of "special" arrows. That actually makes some sense and could add to "feeling like a ranger."
Because, in reality, carrying "1,000" arrows is as immersion breaking as "an endless supply of arrows" if one thinks about it.
I'm pretty sure real archers didn't carry 1000+ arrows!
Neither did real archers *need to shoot* more than 2 dozen arrows on any kind of regular basis.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I wish they were not dispensing with arrows. I remember in EQ taking out my fletching kit and making my own ammo. That kind of thing made me feel like a Ranger and to me was fun. This feels like one of what may yet be many steps to come where old school mechanics hit the cutting room floor.
Well, they did mention the creation of "special" arrows. That actually makes some sense and could add to "feeling like a ranger."
Because, in reality, carrying "1,000" arrows is as immersion breaking as "an endless supply of arrows" if one thinks about it.
I'm pretty sure real archers didn't carry 1000+ arrows!
Neither did real archers *need to shoot* more than 2 dozen arrows on any kind of regular basis.
exactly. But ... as it's a game, and a fantasy game, I can see why the developers will choose "never ending arrows" and then allow the crafting of specific arrows.
Unless it was plot specific I don't recall many "wait team, I need to make my arrows" in any movie.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I wish they were not dispensing with arrows. I remember in EQ taking out my fletching kit and making my own ammo. That kind of thing made me feel like a Ranger and to me was fun. This feels like one of what may yet be many steps to come where old school mechanics hit the cutting room floor.
I'm pretty sure real archers didn't carry 1000+ arrows!
I never carried 1,000 arrows either.
I'm thinking along the lines of Lineage 2 where archers would carry that and more.
So "how many arrows did you carry in Everquest?"
You had to carry the kit and the materials to craft while playing even in dungeons. It put a strain on those who used it because it limited what you can carry since weight was an issue.
I like the Vanguard ranger arrow system. Having arrows magically appear is pretty pathetic imo.
You go out into the wild and you are meant to be able to sustain yourself and fletching should be part of it.
Well, maybe they can rectify this simply by making the idle animation of a ranger, them creating arrows? Instead of it being something tedious that you have to do, it can simply be something that they just "do" idly, not requiring materials, but at least explaining why they have so many arrows.
Actually crafting special arrows makes sense, but in truth, most people will probably want to use special arrows as much as possible, so I doubt that, just because you'll have infinite basic arrows, that people will be content with that.
I like the Vanguard ranger arrow system. Having arrows magically appear is pretty pathetic imo.
You go out into the wild and you are meant to be able to sustain yourself and fletching should be part of it.
Well, maybe they can rectify this simply by making the idle animation of a ranger, them creating arrows? Instead of it being something tedious that you have to do, it can simply be something that they just "do" idly, not requiring materials, but at least explaining why they have so many arrows.
Actually crafting special arrows makes sense, but in truth, most people will probably want to use special arrows as much as possible, so I doubt that, just because you'll have infinite basic arrows, that people will be content with that.
It would depend. If using special arrows had really long cool downs to keep them from being op, then basic attack arrows might be the preferred way of grinding down a target. Perhaps using special arrows as a finisher or in emergency situations.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I like the Vanguard ranger arrow system. Having arrows magically appear is pretty pathetic imo.
You go out into the wild and you are meant to be able to sustain yourself and fletching should be part of it.
Well, maybe they can rectify this simply by making the idle animation of a ranger, them creating arrows? Instead of it being something tedious that you have to do, it can simply be something that they just "do" idly, not requiring materials, but at least explaining why they have so many arrows.
Actually crafting special arrows makes sense, but in truth, most people will probably want to use special arrows as much as possible, so I doubt that, just because you'll have infinite basic arrows, that people will be content with that.
Well, I'm sure everyone would want to use "the bestest" weapons/ammo they can. But if the components are rare or it takes a bit to make them then they will be used sparingly.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I like the Vanguard ranger arrow system. Having arrows magically appear is pretty pathetic imo.
You go out into the wild and you are meant to be able to sustain yourself and fletching should be part of it.
Well, maybe they can rectify this simply by making the idle animation of a ranger, them creating arrows? Instead of it being something tedious that you have to do, it can simply be something that they just "do" idly, not requiring materials, but at least explaining why they have so many arrows.
Actually crafting special arrows makes sense, but in truth, most people will probably want to use special arrows as much as possible, so I doubt that, just because you'll have infinite basic arrows, that people will be content with that.
It would depend. If using special arrows had really long cool downs to keep them from being op, then basic attack arrows might be the preferred way of grinding down a target. Perhaps using special arrows as a finisher or in emergency situations.
That would still effectively remove it from the economy unless the mats required to make each arrow we're relatively difficult to get and/or the skill required to make them was high.
If they're used sparingly, and relatively easy to craft, all you've done is ensure Rangers have to take Fletching as a skill and the player has to take time every once in a while to mass-produce special arrows for his next week of gaming.
To be clear, I'm not saying the arrows need to have a place in the economy, just that making the special arrows sparingly used would effectively eliminate any economic interaction one might want from them.
I wish they were not dispensing with arrows. I remember in EQ taking out my fletching kit and making my own ammo. That kind of thing made me feel like a Ranger and to me was fun. This feels like one of what may yet be many steps to come where old school mechanics hit the cutting room floor.
I'm pretty sure real archers didn't carry 1000+ arrows!
I never carried 1,000 arrows either.
I'm thinking along the lines of Lineage 2 where archers would carry that and more.
So "how many arrows did you carry in Everquest?"
In Everquest a Ranger had a quiver to store arrows. I generally kept my quiver full, with perhaps some extra arrows in one of my regular bags.
How many extra I needed depended on what I was doing (and for how long). For example, if I was just xp grinding I only used the bow to pull, so I would likely be using cheap basic arrows in my quiver. The extra arrows in my bag were more powerful/situational ones in case I came across a named mob or wanted to switch mainly to range damage.
Figuring out what arrows to take with you and how many was one of the decisions a Ranger or other arrow user had to make.
Later, there were AA abilities like endless quiver (which I never had) that allowed you an endless supply of arrows, but you still choose a type of arrow to use and would carry many different kinds for different purposes.
But of course there is no need if you are just relying on a pew pew button.
I am puzzled why VR comes up with a feature where you have to equip various things to protect yourself depending on weather, and that has been generally well received so far (in discussions), but having situationally different arrows (and the ability to craft them) is unfun and tedious?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I wish they were not dispensing with arrows. I remember in EQ taking out my fletching kit and making my own ammo. That kind of thing made me feel like a Ranger and to me was fun. This feels like one of what may yet be many steps to come where old school mechanics hit the cutting room floor.
I'm pretty sure real archers didn't carry 1000+ arrows!
I never carried 1,000 arrows either.
I'm thinking along the lines of Lineage 2 where archers would carry that and more.
So "how many arrows did you carry in Everquest?"
In Everquest a Ranger had a quiver to store arrows. I generally kept my quiver full, with perhaps some extra arrows in one of my regular bags.
How many extra I needed depended on what I was doing (and for how long). For example, if I was just xp grinding I only used the bow to pull, so I would likely be using cheap basic arrows in my quiver. The extra arrows in my bag were more powerful/situational ones in case I came across a named mob or wanted to switch mainly to range damage.
Figuring out what arrows to take with you and how many was one of the decisions a Ranger or other arrow user had to make.
Later, there were AA abilities like endless quiver (which I never had) that allowed you an endless supply of arrows, but you still choose a type of arrow to use and would carry many different kinds for different purposes.
But of course there is no need if you are just relying on a pew pew button.
I am puzzled why VR comes up with a feature where you have to equip various things to protect yourself depending on weather, and that has been generally well received so far (in discussions), but having situationally different arrows (and the ability to craft them) is unfun and tedious?
Ok, but again, "how many" arrows did you carry. What does "kept my quiver full" mean?
I don't really see their system as tedious at all. One well placed poisonous arrow and then using standard arrows for example.
Picking a specific "special" arrow for a specific target seems kind of natural.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
is that why all those rangers were using "Ranger Gate" back then? to get back to town to make more arrows or buy more? was that the real reason?? I had no idea!
Ok, but again, "how many" arrows did you carry. What does "kept my quiver full" mean?
Lol. Like I remember how many arrows my quiver held, or which version of quiver it was, for a game I played 16 years ago?
If this issue interests you, feel free to look it up. It doesn't affect the point I made one iota.
My original statement was that archers never carried 1000 arrows (based on my lineage 2 days). You said you never carried 1000 arrows.
Ok great. Did you carry 200 ish? 100 ish?
The point was that they make these game decisions to keep the game from being a slog and not based on anything close to realistic for an actual archer.
This wasn't about what you actually carried. But whether or not the game allowed for more ammunition than would have normally been carried.
So I'm not sure what your point was in relation to responding to my statement.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I wish they were not dispensing with arrows. I remember in EQ taking out my fletching kit and making my own ammo. That kind of thing made me feel like a Ranger and to me was fun. This feels like one of what may yet be many steps to come where old school mechanics hit the cutting room floor.
I'm pretty sure real archers didn't carry 1000+ arrows!
I never carried 1,000 arrows either.
I'm thinking along the lines of Lineage 2 where archers would carry that and more.
So "how many arrows did you carry in Everquest?"
In Everquest a Ranger had a quiver to store arrows. I generally kept my quiver full, with perhaps some extra arrows in one of my regular bags.
How many extra I needed depended on what I was doing (and for how long). For example, if I was just xp grinding I only used the bow to pull, so I would likely be using cheap basic arrows in my quiver. The extra arrows in my bag were more powerful/situational ones in case I came across a named mob or wanted to switch mainly to range damage.
Figuring out what arrows to take with you and how many was one of the decisions a Ranger or other arrow user had to make.
Later, there were AA abilities like endless quiver (which I never had) that allowed you an endless supply of arrows, but you still choose a type of arrow to use and would carry many different kinds for different purposes.
But of course there is no need if you are just relying on a pew pew button.
I am puzzled why VR comes up with a feature where you have to equip various things to protect yourself depending on weather, and that has been generally well received so far (in discussions), but having situationally different arrows (and the ability to craft them) is unfun and tedious?
Some of the decisions they are making seem strange to me too.
Arrows were the only reason to worship Karana. Those came along way too late, though.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Comments
I think they also realize that you don't have subscription numbers in the millions for a game to be successful. EQ1 was widely considered the most successful MMO of its time and I don't think it ever broke 250k subscribers. Even SWTOR said that the game would be profitable at 500k subscribers and they spent several hundred million on that game. Hell we could look at EVE Online which put out like 2 major expansions a year and still has a strong player base because I don't think they every broke 350k subscribers.
As for the modern market, don't want them, can't stand them, please don't let them into my game or accommodate them in any way. If they want to play Pantheon, let them adapt to Pantheon, don't adapt the game to them. I just returned to EQ1 after an 18 year absence and by far I am having more fun than any modern MMO that has came out in the last 10 years. The whole experience so far has made it very clear to me that the casual crowd who wants everything handed to them, is what has ruined the entire MMO industry. Having to group to accomplish things is so much more fun than rushing through everything solo. Dying 3-4 times in a night on occasion because the camp to get your epic piece is so difficult you want to cry, only to have it all be made worth it the second you actually get the drop is amazing. Having areas of the map be so deadly that you have to have a well coordinated group to even attempt exploring it is priceless. Hell not being held by the hand and told where to go or what to do is pretty damn amazing in its own right.
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You go out into the wild and you are meant to be able to sustain yourself and fletching should be part of it.
Actually crafting special arrows makes sense, but in truth, most people will probably want to use special arrows as much as possible, so I doubt that, just because you'll have infinite basic arrows, that people will be content with that.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If they're used sparingly, and relatively easy to craft, all you've done is ensure Rangers have to take Fletching as a skill and the player has to take time every once in a while to mass-produce special arrows for his next week of gaming.
To be clear, I'm not saying the arrows need to have a place in the economy, just that making the special arrows sparingly used would effectively eliminate any economic interaction one might want from them.
How many extra I needed depended on what I was doing (and for how long). For example, if I was just xp grinding I only used the bow to pull, so I would likely be using cheap basic arrows in my quiver. The extra arrows in my bag were more powerful/situational ones in case I came across a named mob or wanted to switch mainly to range damage.
Figuring out what arrows to take with you and how many was one of the decisions a Ranger or other arrow user had to make.
Later, there were AA abilities like endless quiver (which I never had) that allowed you an endless supply of arrows, but you still choose a type of arrow to use and would carry many different kinds for different purposes.
But of course there is no need if you are just relying on a pew pew button.
I am puzzled why VR comes up with a feature where you have to equip various things to protect yourself depending on weather, and that has been generally well received so far (in discussions), but having situationally different arrows (and the ability to craft them) is unfun and tedious?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If this issue interests you, feel free to look it up. It doesn't affect the point I made one iota.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Arrows were the only reason to worship Karana. Those came along way too late, though.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.