If they want people to come back and/or try to get a new influx of players, they need to get rid of all the different expansions and quest packs and bundle them in a nice 50 bucks offer. They really can't charge more, since AGAIN... it's a 12 year old game!
Not sure why it being a 12 year old game should matter. It doesn't spoil.
Because most companies would make that old content cheap to try to retain new players. Throwing pay walls in all over the place is a terrible idea. But they don't really have much end game content so they realize they need to nickle and dime new players that actually enjoy the experience.
You're starting to sound like their old CM Rick Heaton.
If they want people to come back and/or try to get a new influx of players, they need to get rid of all the different expansions and quest packs and bundle them in a nice 50 bucks offer. They really can't charge more, since AGAIN... it's a 12 year old game!
Not sure why it being a 12 year old game should matter. It doesn't spoil.
Because most companies would make that old content cheap to try to retain new players. Throwing pay walls in all over the place is a terrible idea. But they don't really have much end game content so they realize they need to nickle and dime new players that actually enjoy the experience.
You're starting to sound like their old CM Rick Heaton.
I seldom agree with gamers so maybe I agree with their old CM Rick Heaton?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
If they want people to come back and/or try to get a new influx of players, they need to get rid of all the different expansions and quest packs and bundle them in a nice 50 bucks offer. They really can't charge more, since AGAIN... it's a 12 year old game!
Not sure why it being a 12 year old game should matter. It doesn't spoil.
Bottomline though: with Mordor they messed up big time. I think the population took a hit. They backtracked but as is often the case the damage had been done. And this is probably an attempt to "win back" some of those who were lost.
Why the change? I assume its because SSG are now an "indie" freed from the "corporate restraints" of big WarnerBros - and the financial safety net that underwrote them.
This is a spot on summary, many players guesstimated the same at Mordor, the original lootbox design was decent thus probably not made enough money, that's originated the Mordor changes. And the new lootbox backfired on them - as many warned them it would. At least they now reverting it back for some extent.
The game has 6 expansions (or 5 and a half,
Mirkwood was fairly small ), and to get the full game you need
to sub as well (or buying quest packs as you go). The first 5
expansions you can get on sales fairly cheap, I think $30 was the lowest
price so far, a short-timed sale on the Quad pack for $10 while Helm's
Deep was for $20. The 6th, Mordor, is still pretty expensive, but for
a tryout that is unnecessary anyways. Actually, for a tryout the free
play is more than enough, you will see after the first week if you like
the game or not.
Nonsense, just play the game and you can buy all the quest
packs. Never spent a dime on any quest pack and I have all of them. I
really get tired of posters that played the game for a bit, got antsy
and threw money at it thinking that is the only way to advance.
That almost earned my first WTF, but I don't want to sink to that level...
Seriously, dude? "played the game for a bit, got antsy
and threw money at it thinking that is the only way to advance." for a bit... sure :face_palm:
I'm a huge advocate of the game's f2p model (just take a peek over at LotRO sub-forum...) but what you babbled about was totally off. No matter how high someone carry the FREE flag, a $10 sale on the Quad pack can't be compared to the minimum of 2 weeks long Point grind - that is, when the player is a no-lifer and in the game all day. For a more regular player with a few hours of play per day, it could take months. And it is a grind, with a capital G, boring and dull as hell. Not to mention the actual question was a tryout, a new, first impression of the game, who would recommend a boring grind for that?
@gervaise1 made a much better roadmap for a new player in a post above, by trying out a few races, a few different classes, etc. then using Points, or sub, or purchase expansions on sale, based on the playstyle and spending habits.
Using the Points is generally a good idea most of the time, the exception is the Quad pack on sale. Grinding out more than 10k Points, compared to $10... are you nuts? Sure, it is possible, if you don't mind spending the time on Point grind instead of actual playing, or don't mind playing without the expansions for several months, while waiting on accumulate the required Points by just playing the game normally...
Fuck Standing Stone Studios, and screw any promise they make.
They also make DDO, which they just randomly nerfed classes, raid gear, and ultra rare drop gear, and just flipped players the bird when they complained about being mistreated.
Screw them.. and never trust a word these assholes say.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Bottomline though: with Mordor they messed up big time. I think the population took a hit. They backtracked but as is often the case the damage had been done. And this is probably an attempt to "win back" some of those who were lost.
Why the change? I assume its because SSG are now an "indie" freed from the "corporate restraints" of big WarnerBros - and the financial safety net that underwrote them.
This is a spot on summary, many players guesstimated the same at Mordor, the original lootbox design was decent thus probably not made enough money, that's originated the Mordor changes. And the new lootbox backfired on them - as many warned them it would. At least they now reverting it back for some extent.
The game has 6 expansions (or 5 and a half,
Mirkwood was fairly small ), and to get the full game you need
to sub as well (or buying quest packs as you go). The first 5
expansions you can get on sales fairly cheap, I think $30 was the lowest
price so far, a short-timed sale on the Quad pack for $10 while Helm's
Deep was for $20. The 6th, Mordor, is still pretty expensive, but for
a tryout that is unnecessary anyways. Actually, for a tryout the free
play is more than enough, you will see after the first week if you like
the game or not.
Nonsense, just play the game and you can buy all the quest
packs. Never spent a dime on any quest pack and I have all of them. I
really get tired of posters that played the game for a bit, got antsy
and threw money at it thinking that is the only way to advance.
That almost earned my first WTF, but I don't want to sink to that level...
Seriously, dude? "played the game for a bit, got antsy
and threw money at it thinking that is the only way to advance." for a bit... sure :face_palm:
I'm a huge advocate of the game's f2p model (just take a peek over at LotRO sub-forum...) but what you babbled about was totally off. No matter how high someone carry the FREE flag, a $10 sale on the Quad pack can't be compared to the minimum of 2 weeks long Point grind - that is, when the player is a no-lifer and in the game all day. For a more regular player with a few hours of play per day, it could take months. And it is a grind, with a capital G, boring and dull as hell. Not to mention the actual question was a tryout, a new, first impression of the game, who would recommend a boring grind for that?
@gervaise1 made a much better roadmap for a new player in a post above, by trying out a few races, a few different classes, etc. then using Points, or sub, or purchase expansions on sale, based on the playstyle and spending habits.
Using the Points is generally a good idea most of the time, the exception is the Quad pack on sale. Grinding out more than 10k Points, compared to $10... are you nuts? Sure, it is possible, if you don't mind spending the time on Point grind instead of actual playing, or don't mind playing without the expansions for several months, while waiting on accumulate the required Points by just playing the game normally...
Well sorry to disappoint you, but not only do I have all quest packs on one account, I have them all on two accounts and still never actively grinded anything. So I scoff at your protestations.
Well sorry to disappoint you, but not only do I have all quest packs on one account, I have them all on two accounts and still never actively grinded anything. So I scoff at your protestations.
Maybe your interpreter is buggy? I know you can play for free, I know the model inside out - as a matter of fact probably I know more fully free players than you since I have an alt on a grinder kinship... that's how I know how much time you need to get Points (and also that how boring it is to actively grind them). To unlock everything on a fresh account would take more than a year of active grinding, 8-10 hours each day... and that "fresh account" part is what you actively skips all the time, the very context of Xingbairong's initial question.
Lemme flip it over for you, for easier undestanding "Gee, Japan seems interesting, I might go an check myself, though I'm a bit worried about the travel costs..." "Not necessarily. There are different carriers, LCCs, seasonal discounts, etc. etc." Ozzy barges in "Nonsense! You should just swim over, that is free, I did that too!"
Is it possible? Sure. Will it take a long time? Sure as well. Have fun with that. But for a new player, trying out the game for the first time, I'd suggest gervaise1's approach instead.
I have been playing LOTRO on and off since launch 12 years ago, been through it all. Grinding points is the most stupid thing you can do, unless you like working for 10 - 15 cents an hour. As that is the amount of points worth per hour on average you can get grinding.
Just to just put it into more perspective and how ridiculous it is to grind for points:
Not all deeds reward LP and the vast majority of those only give 5 LP, so you have to also spend time to figure out which deeds do and where you need to go to grind each deed. Some deeds are easier than others, but it can be safely said, if very dedicated and persistent you can on average complete 2 deeds per hour. So on average you earn 10 LOTRO points per hour.
1550 LOTRO points can be bought for 19,99.
Let's say you are lucky and sometimes able to unlock a few more LP in some hours, you still looking at 150 hours minimum to earn 20 dollars worth of LOTRO points!!
Shall I spell it out? ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY HOURS for 20 bucks!!
Well sorry, at least my precious time is worth a hell lot more than that. Unless you live in your mother's basement, never worked in your life and have nothing else to do...I guess you then might then have different perception on time and money.
I think it is a bit more that that now, after the deed changes in the lower zones. One who handles monotomy extremely well, can make about $4 worths of Points in a day, which is a whooping amount of 40-50 cents per hour A measly amount if you ask me. *edit: just saw your edit, yep, on the current setup you can get $20 worths of Points in about 50 hours instead of the 150 hours before the changes. But time is still worth much more than that.
It wasn't about troll feeding, more about correcting, since it could misguide Xing (or any other new players). For a fresh, new account the "just play the game and you unlock everything without a grind" is simply false, since for a new account only the starter zones and Lone-lands give Points for the deeds... clearing those areas (twice, using the second character slot as well) for squeezing out every Points is in itself already a grind, and then the player can get one more zone, preferably Evendim. Clearing that out as well (also a grind) and still not enough Points for a second zone...
So, it is either jumping on a second server for some more Points (grind), or following the main storyline and ignoring the zone quests (not a cheerful gameplay experience).
That's why it is almost a rule of thumb that if a new player likes the game based on the first week, it is advisable to subscribe even for a month, it will unlock a ton of benefits on the account for good.
I do wonder where this discussion rolls. About f2p or not f2p, about Evendim's price in dollars and points, grinding and no-life. As for grinding - ask me. I grinded all content, except Flowerlands and most Gondors. I grinded many improvements and have life, job etc.
What does bother me are:
1) Players becoming Orc shooting targets (unless players go in large groups and actually lag server). Situation: imagine yourself in Udun. No LoE gear. No essence, even from drops. Barter NPC will appear after 2 weeks. Or 2 years. Ash is extremely rare, even top-level players earn, say, 10 ash in a week. After 2 weeks NPCs spawn and tell you must have completed all deeds in Udun to barter any item. You would become perfect target for any enemy.
2) Embers would be extremely rare. Since no formal info about ratio, I presume Mirkwood dailies would give 1 ember, Mordor - 2 (just 1:1). One week - some 11 embers. If one new essence costs, say, 2500 embers (like Mirkwood costs now) - is it 227 weeks? Ok, let us presume quests are very generous and you have just 27 weeks for one essence. Also, ash/ember items are already non-existent in landscape.
3) Any item (looks like) being tied to deeds. Have you not killed everything, explored everything and finished tier2 instances? Then get off, NPC may not barter. of course, my interpretation, since no formal information is given.
I really do not bother what they put in chests. Tome of Half-Eaten Grumpy Rat? Eowyn's Underwear? The-Box-Opener title? Another decoration? I don't care, would ash/trash anyway. Raid armour, store-only and deed-only items? No place for them in lootbox. For me lootboxes (Mordor/Mirkwood) have only value, value of ash. If they have only "some" (i.e. - "little" or "very little") embers, any reason to leave them? And spent valuable LPs for keys?
To make things easier: imagine that, to get any goat, you have to finish all deeds in goat regions: Ered-Luin, Moria, Misty mountains, including instances. And then you are expected to have played any of this region for at least 1 month. And then have enough barter currency. Don't have any of these? Screw you, go by foot in Moria. Or: to reforge LI you have to finish all Rohan deeds. Just because we, developers, want so.
@Lithuanian I missed to answer your previous post and I agree that those are valid concerns, partly. The mechanics you mention in there were part of the new lootbox changes, and their goal was to push the players (quite forcefully) towards the boxes.
Now with the core of the Mordor boxes will be changed, I assume there won't be necessary to keep up those "incentives" either. But of course it is Turbine/SSG, and there's a chance they will ease up the boxes but leave those "supporting" mechanics within the game, since they are sloppy. Maybe it would be good notify them about it, Sev just said in his post that they are now reading the feedbacks
Comments
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
graphic wise
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
That almost earned my first WTF, but I don't want to sink to that level...
Seriously, dude? "played the game for a bit, got antsy and threw money at it thinking that is the only way to advance." for a bit... sure :face_palm:
I'm a huge advocate of the game's f2p model (just take a peek over at LotRO sub-forum...) but what you babbled about was totally off.
No matter how high someone carry the FREE flag, a $10 sale on the Quad pack can't be compared to the minimum of 2 weeks long Point grind - that is, when the player is a no-lifer and in the game all day. For a more regular player with a few hours of play per day, it could take months. And it is a grind, with a capital G, boring and dull as hell. Not to mention the actual question was a tryout, a new, first impression of the game, who would recommend a boring grind for that?
@gervaise1 made a much better roadmap for a new player in a post above, by trying out a few races, a few different classes, etc. then using Points, or sub, or purchase expansions on sale, based on the playstyle and spending habits.
Using the Points is generally a good idea most of the time, the exception is the Quad pack on sale. Grinding out more than 10k Points, compared to $10... are you nuts? Sure, it is possible, if you don't mind spending the time on Point grind instead of actual playing, or don't mind playing without the expansions for several months, while waiting on accumulate the required Points by just playing the game normally...
edit: quest packs != expansions (since you're talking about buying quest packs)
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
They also make DDO, which they just randomly nerfed classes, raid gear, and ultra rare drop gear, and just flipped players the bird when they complained about being mistreated.
Screw them.. and never trust a word these assholes say.
To unlock everything on a fresh account would take more than a year of active grinding, 8-10 hours each day... and that "fresh account" part is what you actively skips all the time, the very context of Xingbairong's initial question.
Lemme flip it over for you, for easier undestanding
"Gee, Japan seems interesting, I might go an check myself, though I'm a bit worried about the travel costs..."
"Not necessarily. There are different carriers, LCCs, seasonal discounts, etc. etc."
Ozzy barges in
"Nonsense! You should just swim over, that is free, I did that too!"
Is it possible? Sure. Will it take a long time? Sure as well. Have fun with that.
But for a new player, trying out the game for the first time, I'd suggest gervaise1's approach instead.
I have been playing LOTRO on and off since launch 12 years ago, been through it all. Grinding points is the most stupid thing you can do, unless you like working for 10 - 15 cents an hour. As that is the amount of points worth per hour on average you can get grinding.
Just to just put it into more perspective and how ridiculous it is to grind for points:
Not all deeds reward LP and the vast majority of those only give 5 LP, so you have to also spend time to figure out which deeds do and where you need to go to grind each deed.
Some deeds are easier than others, but it can be safely said, if very dedicated and persistent you can on average complete 2 deeds per hour.
So on average you earn 10 LOTRO points per hour.
1550 LOTRO points can be bought for 19,99.
Let's say you are lucky and sometimes able to unlock a few more LP in some hours, you still looking at 150 hours minimum to earn 20 dollars worth of LOTRO points!!
Shall I spell it out? ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY HOURS for 20 bucks!!
Well sorry, at least my precious time is worth a hell lot more than that. Unless you live in your mother's basement, never worked in your life and have nothing else to do...I guess you then might then have different perception on time and money.
*edit: just saw your edit, yep, on the current setup you can get $20 worths of Points in about 50 hours instead of the 150 hours before the changes. But time is still worth much more than that.
It wasn't about troll feeding, more about correcting, since it could misguide Xing (or any other new players). For a fresh, new account the "just play the game and you unlock everything without a grind" is simply false, since for a new account only the starter zones and Lone-lands give Points for the deeds... clearing those areas (twice, using the second character slot as well) for squeezing out every Points is in itself already a grind, and then the player can get one more zone, preferably Evendim. Clearing that out as well (also a grind) and still not enough Points for a second zone...
So, it is either jumping on a second server for some more Points (grind), or following the main storyline and ignoring the zone quests (not a cheerful gameplay experience).
That's why it is almost a rule of thumb that if a new player likes the game based on the first week, it is advisable to subscribe even for a month, it will unlock a ton of benefits on the account for good.
http://www.mmoblogg.wordpress.com
The mechanics you mention in there were part of the new lootbox changes, and their goal was to push the players (quite forcefully) towards the boxes.
Now with the core of the Mordor boxes will be changed, I assume there won't be necessary to keep up those "incentives" either. But of course it is Turbine/SSG, and there's a chance they will ease up the boxes but leave those "supporting" mechanics within the game, since they are sloppy.
Maybe it would be good notify them about it, Sev just said in his post that they are now reading the feedbacks