There are some classic servers for group-based MMORPGs. How about solo-based?

pkpkpk

Old age is forcing me, if I wish to play an MMORPG, to play ones where I do not need to sit at the computer for more than 30 minutes at a time. On the other hand, I have no desire to play a game newer than necessary. As Lineage 2 Classic is only in Europe, and World of Warcraft Classic will not be released for a few more years, I am at a loss for what to play. Not only do I not wish to go forward 15 years in the future, but I don't and won't have a computer that can play the latest game. Are there any even moderately old MMORPGs out there for solo playing? By the way I don't think 2003 is old, but that it what it has come to, all the many solo MMORPGs before that (Lineage, Ragnarok Online, Meridian 59, Asheron's Call, and others I haven't played, have been deserted). Have all the ones from the 2000s been replaced or changed too? 

pkpkpk

Also it occurs to me (not to detract from the question) that all these companies are more than hurting MMORPGs with these new releases. It used to be (when I was last seeking such an MMORPG) that there were the old subscription based games, and then a wave of Korean games with cash shops (and these are more the colour of game that I like, if the older subscription ones are not available, e.g. Rohan Online, 2Moons, Shaiya, Rappelz, ArchLord, but what can be the population of any of these games (supposing they have not been changed much) when there are a thousand different games in existence?), but nothing else, not a hundred browser games, mobile games, sequels upon sequels, etc. It certainly is a divided market.  For a game that facilitates play for years and years, the present state, and the future forecast, are unreasonable it seems. I played Everquest 15 hours a day for more than a year in 2001, and I would go back to it now if I could. Same with World of Warcraft classic, 15 hours a day, but several years, and I would still go back to it now. Or any other game for that matter. I know the average player on the Internet is not too wise, and these games are it seems manipulating young men, but good god you would think reality would force them to do something. Maybe when a certain threshold of games has been exceeded reason becomes useless, and only feeling can steer games and their players in any direction. As I look on the list on the right I don't recognize a single game out of the fifteen there, save the ones with sequels, which is disturbing for someone who was as sober a player as there was for about ten years.  It is more of that steering with feeling, I guess, since I would not lower myself to examine these new games. The last I played was TERA (save my seeing Neverwinter and Guild Wars 2 on a friends computer), and they were all worse than old games, mainly in the dungeons and dynamics of groups, in other respects (though I agree TERA was different, we know that an exception) they were the same or worse as their predecessors. I hope someone can help me with his, for I am despairing of success. I would go to Project 1999 and Uthgard DAoC again, but the disparity between groups and solo players is unpleasant. Good games for groups, bad games for older men with weak bones, etc.

pkpkpk

No sooner had I posted this, than I saw this post. A good tiding for those of us seeking a classic solo MMORPG. A Lineage 2 server in North America! At last! https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7382609/

Quizzical

Have you considered splitting posts into multiple paragraphs?

Albatroes

I'd play FFXI if you want an old mmorpg that is more solo/co-op focused now. Asura is your best bet if you want to play with other english speaking players. There's things in the game called trusts which are npcs that have different classes (called jobs in the game) that you can use as a group to fill out roles like having a tank/healer/etc, which allows you to play other stuff you want or make it easier to do certain things. Only 'downside' is that its still p2p but there's a 14 day trial if you want to test it out.

GeezerGamer

It's unfortunate, but I don't think you are going to find the experience you are looking for.

pkpkpk

Albatroes said:

I'd play FFXI if you want an old mmorpg that is more solo/co-op focused now. Asura is your best bet if you want to play with other english speaking players. There's things in the game called trusts which are npcs that have different classes (called jobs in the game) that you can use as a group to fill out roles like having a tank/healer/etc, which allows you to play other stuff you want or make it easier to do certain things. Only 'downside' is that its still p2p but there's a 14 day trial if you want to test it out.

I have played FFXI, not at the beginning, but during level sync, but I left it when they released the solo things. Certainly it is not an old game any more. Also this was a group based MMO, and one that laboured under its large world and many levels. Telnet games showed us that RPGs can function well with only a few dozen players. Games as FFXI and EQ to my mind overextended themselves, and the changes to them both showed that they could not exist long without modifications to the game.

El-Hefe

Why not just play an rpg of your choosing?  Why do you want an mmorpg if you want to play with yourself and your weak bones?  

pkpkpk

El-Hefe said:

Why not just play an rpg of your choosing?  Why do you want an mmorpg if you want to play with yourself and your weak bones?  

Bear in mind that the first MMORPGs were made for players advancing alone. It was the conception of Everquest, which as was substantially noted at the time, had removed PvP from the game, that players might join each other in groups and advance in that way. In the history of MMORPGs, games with players advancing alone have always been more common than the kind of Everquest. If I seek a game such as Lineage, Asheron's Call, or Meridian 59, that is an older mould of game than Everquest. And those games were far from rough. As I noted earlier, it is sad that they are gone now. Everquest was called some unkind things on Newgroups before its release, that I will not repeat here, but as that is the kind of game that has persisted, and not the less structured kind of Meridian 59 and Lineage, I will play it. Ragnarok Online from 2002, for example, I remember had the focus of Everquest, but without the groups, at least what I played of it. 

Wizardry

Sorry but like MANY,i feel you simply did not fully understand FFXI.
it is a massive game that does not hold your hand so yes it is tough to figure things out but with a little guidance is SUPER easy and fun and can be whatever you want it to be.
Yes at one time mostly a grouping game but was ALWAYS possible to solo as for example a Beastmaster and got even easier as they released and updated stronger pet jugs.

None the less,as of right now,i often play FFXI on a private server,yes it is missing a lot of the public server stuff but is still 99% solo if you so desire.One private server makes it possible to have a mount and a npc fellow,choice of i think 3 maybe more,Tank,Healer,Mage.Another server i play more on does not have a mount or fellow but is still solo based as the Auction house is loaded with a lot of items at reduced prices.

There are ALWAYS going to be some pet peeves on how servers are run,content available or not but in the end ,i feel comfortable with the private server and the no pressure of added costs for a game i already own several times over.

centkin

I'd recommend Istaria if you haven't played it.  Play as a dragon. 

pkpkpk

Wizardry said:

Sorry but like MANY,i feel you simply did not fully understand FFXI.
it is a massive game that does not hold your hand so yes it is tough to figure things out but with a little guidance is SUPER easy and fun and can be whatever you want it to be.
Yes at one time mostly a grouping game but was ALWAYS possible to solo as for example a Beastmaster and got even easier as they released and updated stronger pet jugs.

None the less,as of right now,i often play FFXI on a private server,yes it is missing a lot of the public server stuff but is still 99% solo if you so desire.One private server makes it possible to have a mount and a npc fellow,choice of i think 3 maybe more,Tank,Healer,Mage.Another server i play more on does not have a mount or fellow but is still solo based as the Auction house is loaded with a lot of items at reduced prices.

There are ALWAYS going to be some pet peeves on how servers are run,content available or not but in the end ,i feel comfortable with the private server and the no pressure of added costs for a game i already own several times over.

When I said they overextended themselves I mean that both FFXI and EQ have massively larger worlds than earlier MMORPGs. I never understood the reason for this, it is unpleasant to me to cross the world of Everquest, ride boats for hours, etc.  It is not intolerable, but the fact that all such huge games as these have instituted means for players to solo, shows that they were improperly made and could not last. There can be 800 players on Project1999 and you still cannot find a group. Not to mention if two players wish to group but are on other continents, it could take hours to reach other. Players are locked into grouping at Befallen or Unrest or Guk, etc. They cannot easily migrate between the three places, it takes a long while to do so. World of Warcraft and Everquest 2 took another route, letting players fly on bats or ring bells to go between zones. Whatever the case, from Everquest onwards the games were determined it seems to have huge worlds. The earlier MMORPGs did not have these. Everquest also has a level-based system, which separates players from each other by levels, and fifty or sixty levels. If they had reduced these levels to twenty five or thirty they could have sustained their model of grouping with half the population.

pkpkpk

centkin said:

I'd recommend Istaria if you haven't played it.  Play as a dragon. 

Thanks. Never heard of this one. It is a year older than Lineage II, which is good, but no guarantee it is classic (Meridian 59 is still online, and that's from 1995, but definitely not classic, also Meridian only has a few players). I am downloading it now and watching videos of it on Youtube. Most players seem to be playing dragons, I see exclamation points over the townsfolks heads, many non aggressive monsters, dragons fighting small green beetles...I guess I'll see how it goes.. it can't be much worse than the old MMORPGs that I have tried recently, Shaiya (shut down), 2Moons (shut down), Rohan Online (bugged and wouldn't start) and Rappelz (heavily changed I think). Always impressive to see games of that vintage still in existence, but all too often I fear they have been changed heavily.

sayuu

my favorite single player mmo is final fantasy VI. . .

Kyleran

pkpkpk said:

No sooner had I posted this, than I saw this post. A good tiding for those of us seeking a classic solo MMORPG. A Lineage 2 server in North America! At last! https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7382609/

How odd, if there is any MMORPG which you really should group up with others to make it's almost hateful grind more palatable I can't think of it.

Also, L2 Classic likely is just not your game if 30 minutes a day is your time limit.  Back in the day this was a title where some guilds recruited with requirements like: must play 10 to 12 hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week "at a minimum."

@ikcin would vehemently deny L2 was a solo MMORPG, he often holds it up as one of his poster children in his eternal crusade to convince us most every other MMORPG is a solo experience. 

cheyane

Kyleran said:

pkpkpk said:

No sooner had I posted this, than I saw this post. A good tiding for those of us seeking a classic solo MMORPG. A Lineage 2 server in North America! At last! https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7382609/

How odd, if there is any MMORPG which you really should group up with others to make it's almost hateful grind more palatable I can't think of it.

Also, L2 Classic likely is just not your game if 30 minutes a day is your time limit.  Back in the day this was a title where some guilds recruited with requirements like: must play 10 to 12 hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week "at a minimum."

@ikcin would vehemently deny L2 was a solo MMORPG, he often holds it up as one of his poster children in his eternal crusade to convince us most every other MMORPG is a solo experience. 

ROFL was thinking the same thing he went on and on about other games not being MMORPGs and lauded L2 and we see it can be played solo so I guess his precious game was not an MMORPG either by his own definition.

Kyleran

ikcin said:

Kyleran said:

pkpkpk said:

No sooner had I posted this, than I saw this post. A good tiding for those of us seeking a classic solo MMORPG. A Lineage 2 server in North America! At last! https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7382609/

How odd, if there is any MMORPG which you really should group up with others to make it's almost hateful grind more palatable I can't think of it.

Also, L2 Classic likely is just not your game if 30 minutes a day is your time limit.  Back in the day this was a title where some guilds recruited with requirements like: must play 10 to 12 hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week "at a minimum."

@ikcin would vehemently deny L2 was a solo MMORPG, he often holds it up as one of his poster children in his eternal crusade to convince us most every other MMORPG is a solo experience. 

L2 Classic is different from L2 before GoD. It is based on Interlude, but different. The class balance is great. I mean maybe as good as possible in a MMO. At the same time the game had some big issues when I played - the raids, except epics, were bugged as hell. The crafting was kind of pointless as there are not rare items, and mobs drop a lot of gear. Half of the map - most dungeons do not work. The fortresses do not work - which is a huge issue as small clans have no battles for territory. At the good point - the mobs are stronger. In addition to experience loss, there is a chance of dropping items and gear, no matter if you are killed from mobs or a player. Only PK does not count. The PK clearing is absurd - no quests, you have to buy scrolls, so it could be P2W and also ridiculously easy.

That could make the game gang fest, but it is very much group focused. If you play solo, you will never reach the Olympiad. So the PK is not a big problem actually. Players rise characters in parties with trains of dozens mobs, and on bosses. The bosses here are very rewarding as experience, up to levels round 65 or even 70. On lowers you could get a level with 3-4 raids. So it is necessary to find a good constant party as early as possible. Most valuable characters - buffers, sword singers and blade dancers, archers - they are the best on raids, at the other side for the trains on higher levels you need mages or other classes with good AOE, tanks are also appreciated.

Hmm, so it really isnt a true classic experience, but some of the changes you mentioned have appeal to me.

Thanks for the advice on valuable raid classes

Surprised to see archers mentioned, I was SR back at launch and it wasnt terribly useful.

I might give this server a go once the dust settles, but definitely will consider a solid group friendly class.

I just don't need to play another MMO solo, been doing it for far too long.

Still seems to be a bit of a cash grab, but I'm OK with spending some money as long as it doesn't make me feel I must spend a small fortune to play it. 

One question, can you make enough arena to properly gear yourself with just one character?

Back in the early days of NA you really had to play 2 characters, a crafting dwarf and a main.

My Silver Ranger could barely afford to pay for his soul shots. For gear I confess, I bought adena to get my C level gear (I was younger and dumber back then) and it wasn't cheap.

I basically quit because my level progression had really slowed, but worse, I could not seem to make any real adena nor was I willing to level a crafting dwarf or buy any more 3rd party adena.

Thx for any advice you might have.

Hariken

pkpkpk said:

El-Hefe said:

Why not just play an rpg of your choosing?  Why do you want an mmorpg if you want to play with yourself and your weak bones?  

Bear in mind that the first MMORPGs were made for players advancing alone. It was the conception of Everquest, which as was substantially noted at the time, had removed PvP from the game, that players might join each other in groups and advance in that way. In the history of MMORPGs, games with players advancing alone have always been more common than the kind of Everquest. If I seek a game such as Lineage, Asheron's Call, or Meridian 59, that is an older mould of game than Everquest. And those games were far from rough. As I noted earlier, it is sad that they are gone now. Everquest was called some unkind things on Newgroups before its release, that I will not repeat here, but as that is the kind of game that has persisted, and not the less structured kind of Meridian 59 and Lineage, I will play it. Ragnarok Online from 2002, for example, I remember had the focus of Everquest, but without the groups, at least what I played of it. 

I feel for the OP on this. And yeah mmo's used to be about solo play mostly and grouping was secondary. Anarchy Online was like this. It had mission terminals that you could solo or do teams. You could also set what kind of mission you wanted to do and set the difficulty of the mission. The game is in maintenance mode now but Funcom has the nerve to ask for a full sub.fee for it still. I would be still playing it if they dropped or even lowered the monthly fee.

Iselin

IMO the main difference between being able to solo new MMOs vs. the old ones is that in the old days only certain classes with certain specs could solo well and now pretty well any class with any spec can.

And just like in the old days some content is more solo friendly and some can't be soloed at all. The mix might be different with the new ones having way less "must group" content in relative terms but soloing has always been a thing.

pkpkpk

Kyleran we are not alike at all. We would only argue if we spoke.

As to Lineage II, I can't remember when I played this, though it was between 2004 and 2007. It seems that Classic Lineage II is not classic like Project 1999. All things considered, that makes Project1999 by far older than Classic Lineage II. I would play a true classic Lineage II, but I am not touching anything from that late with a ten foot pole. I have already tried enough of those games, and wasted much of my monthly data limit. Online games are sadly flagrantly degenerate...I try to avoid anything and everything that has to do with excessive graphics and novelty. I still hold Unreal from 1998 as the most beautiful video game there is. I'll go back to Project 1999, and note that Uthgard DAoC is also good but certainly second to it. A Final Fantasy XI private server was also mentioned.... DAOC, Final Fantasy XI, and Everquest as far as I know were the peak of the group-based MMORPGs, and that sadly seems to be the only places where significant interest lies for old MMORPGs. Lineage and Meridian 59 (as well as Tibia, The Quest, etc.) are forever lost. I did find http://classictibia.com/serverinfo.php , but as noted the "rates" as they call them are twice what they were, and so I doubt it is exactly classic in other ways either. It seems that it is difficult to create interest for a graphical online game as new as the late '90s. This is utterly bizarre to me, as I find console games became uninteresting in 1986, and computer games in 1990. To stretch myself so far for a graphical online game is something that I do with reluctance. There's something about graphical online games (opposed to text) that corresponds with a clear lack of reason in its players. Not even speaking of the majority, but even among the classic crowd we are speaking of games that had already cast off all remenants of diversity.  Lineage Classic sure... Lineage Expansion #11 no... I have never, even when I was playing fifteen hours a day, approached the kind of comprehensive playing that would justify expansion packs to these massive games. When Everquest began to release expansion packs each year that made the old content obsolete and hurt the economy, that was the nail in the coffin for the roleplayer. The relationship had become company - (that kind of gamer (for whom there are several choice words)) - expansion pack - kill, loot, etc. It seems silly to speak of this about Lineage 2, but as we will see in WoW Classic when it releases, a game frozen in time like that, without making any concessions to you-know-who, will be quite a good game. As would Project 1999 (I never agreed with their adding Kunark and Velious, it is more like Project 2001 now, and the economy shows it, it will be a wonder if they can be content with Velious if they were not content with the base game (though as I say, I am no expert. From what I see unless you were playing constantly and exploring the whole world in 1999 you would not have had a chance to see everything before the first expansion pack.) This is why WoW Classic will be so interesting. Finally a classic MMORPG with no expansion packs. Alas I may not be there to see it, as I have been "waiting" for MMORPGs since 2006, and simply don't have the patience for it any more. The trouble then was that I was 22, and didn't understand that the days of MMORPGs were over, and the classic age had begun. Also I wasn't refined enough to be completely appalled by the changes to WoW (which I went to again a few times), as daily quests, flying mounts, shall we say easier item acquisition, arenas, resilience, raid sizes, etc. But games were also still sold in boxes in those days (miraculously) and it wasn't so easy as downloading a game.

Amathe

I have heard good things about LoTR Online.