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Continual change is abominable.
pkpkpk
Member UncommonPosts: 265
One thing that I have noted about online computer games, ever since I began to play World of Warcraft, is that they continually change. This has always troubled me greatly. And many times I thought, this change is going on a clear course; every few weeks they change the game in the same direction, but not all at once, little by little. Over time, against all reason, the game became continually worse. And then it reached a peak; they released an expansion pack. This changed all the game. The achievements of older players were made obsolete. And yet the changes held way on the same course; the raid sizes were reduced to twenty men from forty; ranks were removed from battlegrounds; armour from raids was made second to battleground armour in fights between players; epic items became second to new common items; five men in a dungeon could now come by epic items that players only could have before in twenty and forty man raids; players could now do daily quests in safe areas, and so come by more gold than they could have before, when it was necessary to go into the contested world to find these things, all thought was taken from this important part of the game; players could now fly across the world, avoiding all dangers; and this all happened in the same expansion pack. Is it any wonder that I immediately left the game?
But it didn't end there. Before the next expansion pack, they made daily dungeons. Five players went through an easy dungeon each day, and got a token, and with these tokens they could in the end buy epic items, which before only players in raids could come by. Between then and the conclusion of the next expansion pack, they introduced cross-server battlegrounds, cross-realm looking for groups, and at last cross-realm looking for raids, players now were no longer held accountable for their actions, epics items were now generated through a void of cross-realm instances, which players instantly joined and were teleported to, interaction with other players, reasonable constraints on acquisition and wealth, all were removed by flying mounts and cross-realm teleporting groups, the new dungeons were so easy that an uncoordinated and unspeaking group of players could finish them, where the first dungeons always required speech and coordination; raids were also made easy, so that they could be finished by players not in a guild, this of course in time permitted cross-realm looking for raids, a final abomination and injury to the game that I am thankful I was not there to see. It is not necessary but still right to say that, in 2010, with the expansion Cataclysm, they completely undid and destroyed the original world of World of Warcraft in 2004. Then the cycle was utterly complete. In six years time they had completely undone the game that they made in 2004. Why? Is there any, dare I ask, reason for this?
But it didn't end there. Before the next expansion pack, they made daily dungeons. Five players went through an easy dungeon each day, and got a token, and with these tokens they could in the end buy epic items, which before only players in raids could come by. Between then and the conclusion of the next expansion pack, they introduced cross-server battlegrounds, cross-realm looking for groups, and at last cross-realm looking for raids, players now were no longer held accountable for their actions, epics items were now generated through a void of cross-realm instances, which players instantly joined and were teleported to, interaction with other players, reasonable constraints on acquisition and wealth, all were removed by flying mounts and cross-realm teleporting groups, the new dungeons were so easy that an uncoordinated and unspeaking group of players could finish them, where the first dungeons always required speech and coordination; raids were also made easy, so that they could be finished by players not in a guild, this of course in time permitted cross-realm looking for raids, a final abomination and injury to the game that I am thankful I was not there to see. It is not necessary but still right to say that, in 2010, with the expansion Cataclysm, they completely undid and destroyed the original world of World of Warcraft in 2004. Then the cycle was utterly complete. In six years time they had completely undone the game that they made in 2004. Why? Is there any, dare I ask, reason for this?
Comments
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Aloha Mr Hand !
“Life is Flux” (Panta Rhei in Greek, meaning everything or all things change). If one understands that change is the only constant in life then one will more easily recognize what Heraclitus is saying in his 'obscure' writings when he claims such things as, “The way up and the way down are one and the same. Living and dead, waking and sleeping, young and old, are the same.” These things are the 'same' in that they are all subject to change, arise from one change to vanish into another and all things, constantly, are in flux and are, in that regard, the same.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
A simple poll will reveal exactly what players want (even though many of you will make pretend only vocal minorities use the internet and social media).
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
They are using the wrong data, or using it incorrectly.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The OP, talked about WoW, in the 2010 era, so this is not Cash Shop Related.
Path of exile is fantastic.
Entropia changed for the worse in my opinion.
But usually, i like expacs and dlc and bug fixes. Conan exiles did a good job for themselves.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
For example, in the case with WoW, the whole game is built around their Raids, way back in 2006, their developers came out and said their raids are a culmination of the rest of the game, and in their design manifesto they believed that every player should to be doing raids as their end game goal.
As such, when they look at their metrics, they are going to revise, redesign and change things, to help players prepare people for getting into that content.
Now, again, in WoW, they have their vision that Raids are the end game, and that ideally everyone who plays WoW will want to raid. So when they look at a metric that says "90% of their population does not raid" they have to ask themselves, "Why not"
You see, as a player, who is doing Raids, the fact that 90% of the population just feeds the ego of being in the top 10% of the game. So a player in that position will not want that number to expand, as to the player, being one of the few is what makes them feel special, it is what makes the game "good" to them.
As a developer, 90% of the population not doing the raids feels like a failure, because your vision was "everyone" should want to do raids, so when only 1 out of every 10 players is doing them, you are forced to ask yourself "Why" and then think of how to get those other 9 people into doing the Raid content that you feel they should all be striving to do. On top of that, you get some other fun numbers like players that do not get involved in raids are 4x as likely to cancel their account within the year. So someone links that doing raids leads to retaining players, and now you are pressured to not only get people to do raids because you feel that is what everyone should be wanting to do, your higher ups are telling to you get people into raids because they believe it will increase player retention.
or at least this is what I have been told...Hell.. it could be they just like fucking with people and feel making some gamers cry and rage quit is fun.. what do I know.
Nevertheless here are two videos of how good MMORPGs could have been. I still like to think of players interacting online in a good role-playing game with graphics, even though all the games have been bad and greedy.
This is a side of video games that never has been, and never will be explored.
As I remember though even Might & Magic Online, funded from that giant role-playing franchise, couldn't cut it in the very expensive MMORPG market, and folded up before it was complete.
An MMORPG though would need a principled developer, and this is likely impossible in a large company. But also explains why text RPGs can be and are good, can have enforced role-playing, naming policies, character approval, permanent death, etc.
Some might say it is hard to make a good online RPG in the first place. Far harder if you are willingly abandoning the things that make them good. MMORPGs are just a joke I see now. The early ones changed too much, and were often deserted (unprincipled developers, large, disorganized and inefficient company). From Everquest onwards they were simply bad...poorly designed 3-D demonstration programs, spending far too much money, and selling their soul every year with an expansion pack so that they would never cut loose their stupid players. Funny thing is I remember reading Aradune's posts from the newsgroup c. 1999, and he seemed to have principles, but I suppose that was a deception too. They did everything wrong, spending money when they shouldn't have, and changing things that should have stayed the same. Even Project 1999 couldn't recover the original interface for this game.
One thing that I will always find eerie though is that there are no MMORPGs for role-players and intelligent gamers... I'm not sure I buy all the previous explanations for this, and in fact I remember in the mid to late 2000s there are some active role-playing groups within Second Life. As these followed the rule of text online RPGs (made by volunteers) they were generally good games. But these eventually disappeared. Some of this may be "societal" or "generational" changes...I'm not sure, and again I am at a loss for an explanation here, and would need to make another topic.
EDIT: Oh yes I forgot to say. My opinion after this thread is that Everquest was deliberately and insidiously engineered in the way that it was to earn as much money as possible, and to keep players playing as long as possible, and occupy as much of their time as possible. I don't think they ever cared if it was well made, or was a worthwhile online role-playing game...nor did any MMORPG I have played it seems. It would have been interesting to see an MMORPG with solid foundational principles that refused to change, but judging from the fact that that never happened or even came close to happening, these games were far, far too expensive from the beginning.
EDIT 2: I also think some were insinuating some fundamental resistance to change, and that it was good. I have simply wondered if there were a good online role-playing game with graphics. I found that by Everquest in 1999 they were universally bad. I was 20 years old when World of Warcraft was released...that is why I liked it. Maybe Lineage, Tibia, Meridian 59, Dark Sun Online, Asheron's Call, etc. were good, but the companies were not principled, did not stand by or support their original creation, and they are gone. All that remains are what I consider bad games, e.g. Everquest and later games. Someone has a strange concept of the world if he correlates change with buying the products of companies.
Of course a game like Project 1999 has the distinction of being run by volunteers, though it was made by a large company. An interesting combination. On the other hand even volunteers can be bad. I do not think Uthgard DAoC is well managed. On the other hadd though any of these games will have big problems when they fall below many hundreds of players, cause of the way they are designed.
Edit 3: Oh yeah I have no faith in games like "Classic WoW" or "Classic Lineage II". They are just throwing out a lasso for us. The same people who destroyed our games before, trying to get our money and destroy them again. The message boards are full to the brim of players wondering about future patches, changes, additions, etc. As the aim of these companies is to make money, following the rules set out in this thread, guess what is going to happen! I wouldn't be surprised if they followed the exact same course that the original games did.
Also Lineage 2 is not even classic. They deceived us there, they will do it elsewhere. I read something about "quality of life changes" in an official post. I have seen this too many times before. What this means is that they have some annoying man under the hood, who every few months will be changing the game. Reminds me of when I played League of Legends. I'd spend a dozen hours calculating the best and most efficient items, learning the mathematical formulas, take a months break from the game, and when I came back everything had changed. I did that once, twice, maybe even three times, by the fourth time I utterly hated every fiber of their being. Of course they would also have been making the game worse during all of these changes too, making the choice even easier (it's not only MMORPGs where they do this!)
EDIT 4: Having said that, I'm not sure the responders are completely right, though they generally are. There is no proof that the changes that these companies make are earning them more or less players. They are simply doing what the masses ask. I think the problem here pertains more to the large companies involved with these games. If it's a few people working on the game you can speak of principles, if it's fifty or a hundred it will harder. Maybe earning money becomes a de facto principle, but regardless beyond some point in MMORPGs it's pointless to speak of them. I think some people here have much newer experience in MMORPGs than I do. I expect more from games than what they have been selling for a long time, and even when I was young I knew games were becoming bad. I was only 15 or 16 when the Playstation 2 was released (in 1999 or 2000), but barely liked any of the games for it. And I quit EQ in a heartbeat when I saw the changes that they announced for Planes of Power (when I was 18). Those are pretty bad signs if I was rejecting those games even then.