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Too much PvP for me
delete5230
Member EpicPosts: 7,081
Ashes was high on the radar for me,
Intrepid created with several EQ developers the payment model will be sub based, PvE and PvP. However I'm really only interested in the PvE. With the Node system, I'm trying to wrap my head around how this would fit for a PvE player. You know, working against the environment and building up a Node.
But no matter how I try and spin it to my likes, It seems THE PLAYERS will keep the game PvP. Staying back as a PvE player will always be a small percentage, and the bulk will be PvP competitive.
Here:
Intrepid created with several EQ developers the payment model will be sub based, PvE and PvP. However I'm really only interested in the PvE. With the Node system, I'm trying to wrap my head around how this would fit for a PvE player. You know, working against the environment and building up a Node.
But no matter how I try and spin it to my likes, It seems THE PLAYERS will keep the game PvP. Staying back as a PvE player will always be a small percentage, and the bulk will be PvP competitive.
Here:
Comments
Yes, todays mmos are not challenging but PvP is not my answer. I hate on screen full scale battles and not knowing where you taking damage from. To me it's not realistic.
It seems this game will be designed for both, but players will treat it as pure PvP. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just not for me.
Lets see what happens, you never know
Developers have also mentioned that Raid bosses will have AIs that try to respond to the party they are facing and strategize accordingly, also there will be no hit markers for boss attacks, you'll have to react to the animations.
Hopefully there will still be a dedicated PvE community for people like you to join in, while I heavily prefer PvP I still like to indulge in PvE (especially raids) from time to time.
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Some open world PvP games actually do a good job of allowing people to avoid PvP if they really want to. L2, Aion, even Eve if you know your way around, allowed me to play with minimal PvP encounters.
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The idea players are being forced to do PvE or PvP did make me smile, next we will be hearing players logging in were "forced" to play, but OK PvP is not for everyone.
I'm not ruling Ashes out, I'm still somewhat interested. Just saying, how developers develop and what players do can be two different things. Then again this could vary drastically from server to server.
Plus, there is going to be enough PvP stuff for PvPers to do, that you are going to have a very small percentage of people who run around murdering people.
Check out my Ashes 101 - PvP Review video if you need to want to know more.
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First of all, if you are going to accuse me of bias can you please detail that out a bit more?
Secondly, as a PvE player if you don't want any non-consensual PvP then you aren't looking for a PvX or Sandbox game, you are looking for a PvE Themepark with no PvP. Luckily Pantheon has said there will be minimal PvP so that one is probably more up your alley.
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Ashes 101
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This game at the very least will be popular. Large percentage of PvP or not I'll be their on release date
Its like pvpers often demanding every themepark game have PvP...its because they don't have barely any options for pvp focused themeparks. I don't blame them, they have barely any choice.
Just like us pvers don't have options for pve sandbox MMOs except one...at least ignoring any older MMOs. And Ryzom is already kinda old.
Why does a themepark MMO need to be PVE focused? There is no reason, just lame excuses
Why does a sandbox MMO need to be PvP forced? There is no reason, just lame excuses
Plenty of sandbox singleplayer/multiplayer games are PVE focused or pvp optional. Minecraft is a sandbox game, but there are lots of PVE servers to play on. There is also lots of PvP servers to play on
DayZ is a sandbox. It has both PvE servers and PvP servers
Ark Survival is a sandbox. It has both PvE servers and PvP servers
Why can't MMOs do the same?
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Why does a sandbox game need PvP?
Because it is an essential element based on the definition of what a sandbox game is
"A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will."
If you begin placing external limitations on the behavior of the gamers, you have begun moving farther and farther away from the essential core of a sandbox game.
A true sandbox would be total anarchy and chaos. Lawless. No repercussions for PKing. While great for some people, that mentality would not work well for everyone.
Keeping true to the essence of a sandbox, you allow for unrestricted PvP but you put a consequence on it for PKing people who do not want non-consensual PvP. Its not a perfect system, but it is a system that works.
Why does a themepark MMO need to be PvE Focused? Because that is the construct.
Why does a sandbox MMO need to be PvP focused? Because that is the definition of what defines a sandbox.
DayZ is not a sandbox. They don't ever claim that distinction and you won't find them using the word sandbox to describe their game.
"DayZ is a gritty, authentic, open-world survival horror hybrid-MMO game, in which you follow a single goal: to survive in the harsh post-apocalyptic landscape as long as they can."
(https://www.bohemia.net/games/dayz)
Ark Survival is not a sandbox. They don't claim it and you won't find them using the word sandbox either. In fact Ark is an action-adventure survival video game.
Stranded on the shores of a mysterious island, you must learn to survive. Use your cunning to kill or tame the primeval creatures roaming the land, and encounter other players to survive, dominate... and escape!
(https://store.steampowered.com/app/346110/ARK_Survival_Evolved/)
Now, I looked up your example of Ryzom, and I can't tell for certain if it is a sandbox or not. They don't claim it to be a sandbox, and from the description it doesn't look like its a sandbox. It looks like it has free-form character classes (lack of structured classes) but I'd have to do a lot more digging into the game.
What you are getting at with games like DayZ, Ark: Survival, and other survival games is that you can toggle PVP on and off. You can provide a PvE only environment, you can provide a PvP enable environment.
Why can't MMOs do the same?
They can. However, they have to do certain things in a certain way if you they want to be able to use the definition of sandbox.
Could you make an argument that WoW or FFXIV are sandbox games? Sure, you could try, however any argument made for these themepark games to be given the sandbox label would be easily disputed.
Now on a sliding scale you could say that Archeage is more sandbox than WoW and have a really good argument. If you tried to say that Archeage is more sandbox than Eve Online, again your argument could be easily disputed.
Could all the games coming out as sandbox worlds have it so PvP is enabled only to guilded characters? Sure, they could, but that would make the game take a step away from being Pure Sandbox.
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Once you start down the road of making compromises - which is always - it matters little except to the wishes of the developers and players which "pure" features you compromise.
It's pretty easy for me to imagine a very sandboxy game that removes all PvP as well as PVP games that are much more on guided rails than some PvE games. As a matter of fact, PVP themeparks are all the rage these days and dominate gaming.
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For some reason though... this game does seem like it would be a better PvE setup than PvP.
We will see once NDAs drop.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
More the point is the Synopsis tells us its PvE and PvP. But players will turn it into a pure PvP game.
I realized this when most every podcast and YouTube shows PvP. So this got me thinking about the reality of it all. PvP players will continually squash anything done in PvE.
PvP will dominate this game.
But who am I kidding, I'll be playing too, I'm starving for an mmorpg just like the next guy.
The whole premise of a RPG,ROLE playing game isn't all about pvp,you are suppose to take on the role of a living character within a living world.
The OP is right,once you introduce pvp the game unless totally segregated into sections which would completely ruin the game and it's immersion ,will become JUST a pvp game.
You can make a NPC unbeatable,you can't do that with a human player,it is simply a matter of how much effort goes into the AI to keep it challenging but still beatable.MOST ai shows a lack of effort,fodder is called fodder because it often has even less AI however this is all about the quality of the developer and their abilities to think and implement.
As to the mention of NODE,what is that in reality,well it reminds me of GW2 calling non visible quests DYNAMIC quests.We have already had this node type system for MANY years we just never called it anything,it was just part of the game.
FFXI is the perfect example,NPC guards change their thoughts of you depending on favors done,Realms change in power depending on various reasons.The Besieged system featured various levels of tiered combat and npc's could be captured during the event so they would no longer show up in town and their services lost.You could go out into the game world and rescue them,so change could ALWAYS be happening.
All this node system is an AUTOMATED system and imo i doubt will even be that good.BDO has a node system as well,likely where Ashes got the idea of naming it a node.It was implemented VERY cheap and immersion ruining lines scrolling across the sky to show our node connections.Workers we never see,just some mini box that says you have workers...sigh.Don't give me cheap half assed system,all in or don't bother.
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