LOL I don't get it if you sell your Intellectual Property & All rights to another person or company, doesn't all the rights go away to that said company unless otherwise stated as a Lease to use such works?
First he was paid 3% when the industry standard is 5% to 15% He is asking for 6% = Fair
Two, the contract signed implies the first in the series of games. Not TW2 or TW3.
It is very common to renegotiate contracts if said contract results in an IP ballooning in profits more so beyond what the original contract stated.
Third, do not mistake your IP and copyright laws with those of another country's.
He will get his money and he deserves it.
100% this
So many people here dont know enough about how it works to make an intelligent comment sadly
Well, according to the previously posted quote, he sold it all.
Look, I'm the first person to be on the side of the creator of any property.
But if he actually sold all his rights then he "sold all his rights."
And yes, it's true that each country has different copyright laws so if Poland (right? I think it's poland) says he can ask for more money then "great!" good for him.
But if that's not the case then screw him. He sold off his own work because he wanted money NOW!
I'll tell you right now, there's no way in hell I would ever sell off my rights to anything I created.
I think it'll come down to he'll have to convince the court he was ignorant of how things worked and that CDP took advantage of said ignorance. For one thing, why would he sell the rights instead of licensing the rights? Why didn't he have an attorney involved, as I'm sure CDP had a dozen working on the deal on their end? Lot of things in the situation we don't know, so impossible to really speculate either way at this point. Will be interesting to see what develops as it goes along.
Completely agree. And "yeah" why didn't he have lawyers present?
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Doesn't matter what anyone believes, nor what industry standard is, nor what the author believed back then vs now.
It will all come down to the Polish court's interpretation of their own statutes and what they feel is fair.
Who knows, they could award more than 6% if there is precedence on their country to do so.
Law is often not about what is right or wrong, nor about honoring your agreements but rather what lawyers can convince a judge or jury the proper interpretation and application of the law should be.
If I was making the decision I would likely rule against the author as I believe one should honor their agreements but fortunately for the author I won't be sitting in the jury box.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I honestly think he should probably get his money, but at the same time due to his comments about the game series, I feel like hes just realizing how much bigger they are than his books. Hes bitter, he hates gaming as a storytelling median, and just wanted quick money back in the day. I personally don't like him based off how his interviews have been, but I'm sure CD Projekt won't be hurting too bad to pay that out.
I love the books and appreciate that the man built the world that these games represent but this is so clearly a cash grab. As far as I know there have been 3 main games, 2 spin-offs and 2 mobile game release over the years. He waited until TW3 made mad money before "demanding" more money? He had years to approach CDPR to re-negotiate. This was a business decision, he wanted cash there and then and he made a bad call. This isn't about him getting screwed out of anything. If I start a business and sell it to someone else then I can't go to them years later when it's now a megacorp and demand more money. That's ridiculous.
LOL I don't get it if you sell your Intellectual Property & All rights to another person or company, doesn't all the rights go away to that said company unless otherwise stated as a Lease to use such works?
First he was paid 3% when the industry standard is 5% to 15% He is asking for 6% = Fair
Two, the contract signed implies the first in the series of games. Not TW2 or TW3.
It is very common to renegotiate contracts if said contract results in an IP ballooning in profits more so beyond what the original contract stated.
Third, do not mistake your IP and copyright laws with those of another country's.
He will get his money and he deserves it.
100% this
So many people here dont know enough about how it works to make an intelligent comment sadly
LOL I don't get it if you sell your Intellectual Property & All rights to another person or company, doesn't all the rights go away to that said company unless otherwise stated as a Lease to use such works?
First he was paid 3% when the industry standard is 5% to 15% He is asking for 6% = Fair
Two, the contract signed implies the first in the series of games. Not TW2 or TW3.
It is very common to renegotiate contracts if said contract results in an IP ballooning in profits more so beyond what the original contract stated.
Third, do not mistake your IP and copyright laws with those of another country's.
He will get his money and he deserves it.
100% this
So many people here dont know enough about how it works to make an intelligent comment sadly
Well, according to the previously posted quote, he sold it all.
Look, I'm the first person to be on the side of the creator of any property.
But if he actually sold all his rights then he "sold all his rights."
And yes, it's true that each country has different copyright laws so if Poland (right? I think it's poland) says he can ask for more money then "great!" good for him.
But if that's not the case then screw him. He sold off his own work because he wanted money NOW!
I'll tell you right now, there's no way in hell I would ever sell off my rights to anything I created.
I think it'll come down to he'll have to convince the court he was ignorant of how things worked and that CDP took advantage of said ignorance. For one thing, why would he sell the rights instead of licensing the rights? Why didn't he have an attorney involved, as I'm sure CDP had a dozen working on the deal on their end? Lot of things in the situation we don't know, so impossible to really speculate either way at this point. Will be interesting to see what develops as it goes along.
....yeah, CDP "took advantage of said ignorance" when HE refused their offer. Great logic there. This was back when CDP was much newer and didn't have "a dozen lawyers working on the deal on their end".
LOL I don't get it if you sell your Intellectual Property & All rights to another person or company, doesn't all the rights go away to that said company unless otherwise stated as a Lease to use such works?
First he was paid 3% when the industry standard is 5% to 15% He is asking for 6% = Fair
Two, the contract signed implies the first in the series of games. Not TW2 or TW3.
It is very common to renegotiate contracts if said contract results in an IP ballooning in profits more so beyond what the original contract stated.
Third, do not mistake your IP and copyright laws with those of another country's.
He will get his money and he deserves it.
100% this
So many people here dont know enough about how it works to make an intelligent comment sadly
Ack, before the condescending continues, how about providing three links to situations in the gaming industry which supports 5 to 15% as an industry standard.
Be sure to include some evidence of this being regularly renegotiated after the fact and a court anywhere supporting lawsuits to change the terms in gaming.
I do recall some musical authors selling the rights to their catalogue early on and having regrets later but I don't believe many prevailed in changing the terms of the original deal via lawsuits.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Problem with his argument is that the game is what made his book popular, his novels may have been the source, but the video game is what made the series what it is not the other way around.
Problem with his argument is that the game is what made his book popular, his novels may have been the source, but the video game is what made the series what it is not the other way around.
Going by his know it all, "take the money and run" attitude he displayed in that interview Suzie linked, he probably made an equally bad deal with his book publishers and is not making much from the increased sales to his books that the games created for him.
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Problem with his argument is that the game is what made his book popular, his novels may have been the source, but the video game is what made the series what it is not the other way around.
Chronologically yes. But one can always argue that games could not reach this level of success without the IP.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Problem with his argument is that the game is what made his book popular, his novels may have been the source, but the video game is what made the series what it is not the other way around.
Chronologically yes. But one can always argue that games could not reach this level of success without the IP.
You do know that most people don't even know the series was based on books, right?
Problem with his argument is that the game is what made his book popular, his novels may have been the source, but the video game is what made the series what it is not the other way around.
Chronologically yes. But one can always argue that games could not reach this level of success without the IP.
You do know that most people don't even know the series was based on books, right?
I understand. But let's say there are no books at all, and just some writer created the characters and the world for this game, can't make the books more irrelevant than that now, can we? Then one could still argue that without those characters and the world game could never become this successful.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Problem with his argument is that the game is what made his book popular, his novels may have been the source, but the video game is what made the series what it is not the other way around.
Chronologically yes. But one can always argue that games could not reach this level of success without the IP.
You do know that most people don't even know the series was based on books, right?
Thing is that the legal issue isn't based on "what most people know" (which is, in most cases, sadly very little). It's based on the law and what he can prove in court using Polish copyright laws. Broad knowledge of the novels and / or the games is irrelevant to the nature of a court case.
Problem with his argument is that the game is what made his book popular, his novels may have been the source, but the video game is what made the series what it is not the other way around.
Chronologically yes. But one can always argue that games could not reach this level of success without the IP.
You do know that most people don't even know the series was based on books, right?
Thing is that the legal issue isn't based on "what most people know" (which is, in most cases, sadly very little). It's based on the law and what he can prove in court using Polish copyright laws. Broad knowledge of the novels and / or the games is irrelevant to the nature of a court case.
Yeah you're right. I have no idea how this would spin in a court and I don't care. My point is there are many factors involved in success of a game. The reason a franchise becomes this successful is because everything has just meshed together perfectly. Even minor stuff like voice acting of a single character can have great influence in the end.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Problem with his argument is that the game is what made his book popular, his novels may have been the source, but the video game is what made the series what it is not the other way around.
Chronologically yes. But one can always argue that games could not reach this level of success without the IP.
If he wants to renegotiate his initial terms fine, suing to get more money because he goofed is on him.
His own statements about his disdain for the title will come in during court deliberations.
Life lesson is this, L2 Negotiate your intellectual property before you sign it away.
I think it'll come down to he'll have to convince the court he was ignorant of how things worked and that CDP took advantage of said ignorance. For one thing, why would he sell the rights instead of licensing the rights? Why didn't he have an attorney involved, as I'm sure CDP had a dozen working on the deal on their end? Lot of things in the situation we don't know, so impossible to really speculate either way at this point. Will be interesting to see what develops as it goes along.
Courts seldom accept ignorance as a reason to change contract later on. Justice system is trying to be predictable, and the threshold for court ordering that parties must act contrary to what they agreed in a contract must be very high so that people can rely on the contracts they've made.
He's a professional writer who had published many books, and the court is unlikely to accept that a professional with experience would be ignorant of a contract that applies directly to his own profession. Furthermore, he must have been aware that CD Projekt Red was releasing multiple Witcher game since 2011 when they released Witcher 2. If there was an error in the contract and he did not act to correct it until now, he's already lost his right to demand for that error to be corrected due to not acting soon enough after noticing the error.
He might be able to force CD Projekt Red to re-negotiate based on some copyright law, or he might be able to argue that the contract only gave CD Projekt Red permission to make one game, but he's very unlikely to be able to claim ignorance.
The game is what made Witcher such a big name. I am sure his books have been selling a ton more since game's success. I bought one after being impressed by the game, had never even heard of it before.
Author should pay a share of additional book sales he's been enjoying - thanks to the game's success - to the game company.
A contract made 2000, i think he deserves a raise after 18 years.
Eh, after 18 years, if we're being honest, he isn't nearly the biggest reason his IP is so popular.
Interesting exercise in philosophy. How much is an IP creator entitled to when another entity does the majority of the work to popularize it?
You dont have any clue how copyright licencing works, do you ?
Where did I reference law in my post? Go ahead and point it out. Don't worry; I'll wait. I was speaking philosophically about the idea that the author wouldn't have even seen this much money made by his IP without CDPR. They're as much the reason his IP is so popular as he is.
Renegotiating contracts happens every day. Just depends on how CDPR wants to approach it.
While that's true, there is also a reason for the renegotiation. The whole idea of a contract is not to be nebulous and for the participants to not have any idea as to what they are signing.
But as was mentioned, it depends on how polish law sees it.
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I guess people missed the part where there is a rule / law / precedent or whatever in Poland that allows him to do this based on the huge difference in what he was paid and what CDPR has gained from it.
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It'll be an interesting case to watch evolve in the Polish court system, however.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It will all come down to the Polish court's interpretation of their own statutes and what they feel is fair.
Who knows, they could award more than 6% if there is precedence on their country to do so.
Law is often not about what is right or wrong, nor about honoring your agreements but rather what lawyers can convince a judge or jury the proper interpretation and application of the law should be.
If I was making the decision I would likely rule against the author as I believe one should honor their agreements but fortunately for the author I won't be sitting in the jury box.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Like yourself?
....yeah, CDP "took advantage of said ignorance" when HE refused their offer. Great logic there. This was back when CDP was much newer and didn't have "a dozen lawyers working on the deal on their end".
Ack, before the condescending continues, how about providing three links to situations in the gaming industry which supports 5 to 15% as an industry standard.
Be sure to include some evidence of this being regularly renegotiated after the fact and a court anywhere supporting lawsuits to change the terms in gaming.
I do recall some musical authors selling the rights to their catalogue early on and having regrets later but I don't believe many prevailed in changing the terms of the original deal via lawsuits.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
His own statements about his disdain for the title will come in during court deliberations.
Life lesson is this, L2 Negotiate your intellectual property before you sign it away.
You dont have any clue how copyright licencing works, do you ?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
He's a professional writer who had published many books, and the court is unlikely to accept that a professional with experience would be ignorant of a contract that applies directly to his own profession. Furthermore, he must have been aware that CD Projekt Red was releasing multiple Witcher game since 2011 when they released Witcher 2. If there was an error in the contract and he did not act to correct it until now, he's already lost his right to demand for that error to be corrected due to not acting soon enough after noticing the error.
He might be able to force CD Projekt Red to re-negotiate based on some copyright law, or he might be able to argue that the contract only gave CD Projekt Red permission to make one game, but he's very unlikely to be able to claim ignorance.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
He is very likely going to get paid.