Apple requires proprietary software/hardware to make major repairs to iMac Pros and new MacBook Pros

Grunty

https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/04/t2-apple-imac-pro-macbook-pro-repair-right/

Any Apple computer with it's T2 chip is affected by this. That currently is limited to the iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro.  Only authorized Apple service departments with proprietary diagnostic software/hardware can now repair significant hardware issues.

"According to MacRumors and shown on documents posted by Motherboard, anyone doing significant repair work on these systems will be left with a nonfunctioning system until they run the "Apple Service Toolkit 2" diagnostic software. For the MacBook Pro that includes "display assembly, logic board, top case (the keyboard, touchpad, and internal housing), and Touch ID board," and on the iMac Pro, it's the logic board or SSD."

You'll also need another functioning computer to run the diagnostic application from.

There goes your 'right to repair'.

alkarionlog

so pray tell me why even care about buying a apple product?

Sandmanjw

Grunty said:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/04/t2-apple-imac-pro-macbook-pro-repair-right/

Any Apple computer with it's T2 chip is affected by this. That currently is limited to the iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro.  Only authorized Apple service departments with proprietary diagnostic software/hardware can now repair significant hardware issues.

"According to MacRumors and shown on documents posted by Motherboard, anyone doing significant repair work on these systems will be left with a nonfunctioning system until they run the "Apple Service Toolkit 2" diagnostic software. For the MacBook Pro that includes "display assembly, logic board, top case (the keyboard, touchpad, and internal housing), and Touch ID board," and on the iMac Pro, it's the logic board or SSD."

You'll also need another functioning computer to run the diagnostic application from.

There goes your 'right to repair'.

Do not see how they will be allowed to let this go in the end. I really do not see how a court will ever say that a person can not have who they wish repair their own property.

Would hope that this is an over site...and not really something that they planned.  But this is apple..never know what they are really thinking over there in LA LA land.

TheDarkrayne

I've always thought Apple caters towards people who wouldn't be able to fix issues themselves so I don't think it will affect much.

Renoaku

So don't buy Apple, do custom buitl all the time problem solved .

ceratop001

Apple in my opinion will start declining. They have taken some political stances that could backfire on them. Also, in Asia shares are falling. Chinese spy chips were found in both Amazon and Apple products. Their new Iphones are not doing very well either.

Solar_Prophet

Torval said:

We'll see how that goes.  don't think core Apple users will care. Some Hackintosh geeks might be pissed.

In any event I don't think this will affect the hardware enthusiast/builder crowd in a significant manner.

Not only will they not care, they'll try to spin it as a positive. Apple fans are just... well, to put it nicely, they behave like a cult. If Apple told them that the great Granny Smith was coming to take them to the Honeycrisp galaxy to attend an exclusive Gala on planet Fuji, they'd believe it. 

Phry

These days, the reasons to get a Mac are probably outweighted by the negatives, price does not equal performance and prohibitive maintenance costs which probably rule out upgrading which is the whole point of getting a PC in the first place. Unless you have some kind of emotional attachment to the brand, i don't really see why anyone would even consider buying a Mac today.

Pemmin

Apple died with Jobs. Generally no real reason to pay extra for an apple outside of brand loyalty or very niche uses

MadFrenchie

This isn't the only place that is experiencing this move towards removing consumer's rights over products they've paid for.

Farmers have recently suffered from legislation that forces them to take their tractors to the manufacturer to get repairs completed, specifically when it's electronic.

That's the next area of opportunity for businesses: lock customers into a de facto contract without actually having them sign a contract (or by forcing them to sign a contract to even reliably use the product), really.

cheyane

Never buy apple products they are overpriced. I frequently tell my friends they are idiots for buying their phones and paying ridiculous prices for them. Told them never to buy the Mac and to always get a PC.

They often ask me for help with their phones and I just hate having to deal with their stupid single button phones and tell them as much. All the while grumbling I do help as they are 65 and above so really no reason for them to have these expensive phones. I wonder how people are this dumb.

Arglebargle

As much as I dislike Apple, the iOS systems are the best tablet platform for audio in their price range.  Mostly due to great third party software.  Outside of a very limited number of Samsung hardware, Android just doesn't do the trick.  And that's with Apple doing stoopid things to cripple their iPads and such.  

But I'd never buy a new Mac.  As time goes by, there'll be a range of older Mac computers that will be preferred hardware, up til the point it simply won't work with new OS's anymore.  Smart money will then just not upgrade them.  

GeezerGamer

My daughter just bought a Macbook. All her friends at college have them. I just shook my head.

Sovrath

cheyane said:

Never buy apple products they are overpriced. I frequently tell my friends they are idiots for buying their phones and paying ridiculous prices for them. Told them never to buy the Mac and to always get a PC.

They often ask me for help with their phones and I just hate having to deal with their stupid single button phones and tell them as much. All the while grumbling I do help as they are 65 and above so really no reason for them to have these expensive phones. I wonder how people are this dumb.

Wow, you just sound like a peach.

I should add that I've had an immensely better experience with every mac I've owned than my pc's.

Still have old mac book that works beautifully which I gave to a friend.

I could listen to other people who rant and rave (I'm sure they are just wonderful, really) because that's just who they are or listen to my own experience.

Meanwhile the pc laptops at work are always having issues.

I think I'll go with my own experience. Love my macs.

SlyLoK

Pemmin said:

Apple died with Jobs. Generally no real reason to pay extra for an apple outside of brand loyalty or very niche uses

Bill Gates should have let Apple die instead of giving them a loan to stay afloat..

MadFrenchie

Sovrath said:

cheyane said:

Never buy apple products they are overpriced. I frequently tell my friends they are idiots for buying their phones and paying ridiculous prices for them. Told them never to buy the Mac and to always get a PC.

They often ask me for help with their phones and I just hate having to deal with their stupid single button phones and tell them as much. All the while grumbling I do help as they are 65 and above so really no reason for them to have these expensive phones. I wonder how people are this dumb.

Wow, you just sound like a peach.

I should add that I've had an immensely better experience with every mac I've owned than my pc's.

Still have old mac book that works beautifully which I gave to a friend.

I could listen to other people who rant and rave (I'm sure they are just wonderful, really) because that's just who they are or listen to my own experience.

Meanwhile the pc laptops at work are always having issues.

I think I'll go with my own experience. Love my macs.

My PC at work has issues regularly, too.  However, my PC at home has never had a major issue in the two years (and some change) I've owned and upgraded it.  Certainly nothing that would ever warrant a call to an actual tech support service.

Quizzical

Whether you want to try to repair something or not, it's nice to at least have the option.  I've repaired keyboards and gamepads that cost under $20 new.  Sometimes a 10 minute repair job to open it up and fix something is cheaper than the amount of time it would take to get a new one, quite apart from the cost.

El-Hefe

Sandmanjw said:

Grunty said:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/04/t2-apple-imac-pro-macbook-pro-repair-right/

Any Apple computer with it's T2 chip is affected by this. That currently is limited to the iMac Pro and 2018 MacBook Pro.  Only authorized Apple service departments with proprietary diagnostic software/hardware can now repair significant hardware issues.

"According to MacRumors and shown on documents posted by Motherboard, anyone doing significant repair work on these systems will be left with a nonfunctioning system until they run the "Apple Service Toolkit 2" diagnostic software. For the MacBook Pro that includes "display assembly, logic board, top case (the keyboard, touchpad, and internal housing), and Touch ID board," and on the iMac Pro, it's the logic board or SSD."

You'll also need another functioning computer to run the diagnostic application from.

There goes your 'right to repair'.

Do not see how they will be allowed to let this go in the end. I really do not see how a court will ever say that a person can not have who they wish repair their own property.

Would hope that this is an over site...and not really something that they planned.  But this is apple..never know what they are really thinking over there in LA LA land.

It's not really a new idea.  Health insurance companies and car dealerships have been doing the same sort of thing for decades.

Ridelynn

It’s all put together with glue and soldered anyway - what is left to repair?

I can honestly see a security angle to it.

I can’t understand Apple taking away the choice of an end user being willing to take a security risk on a 3rd party repair should they choose to.

but given that you can’t really repair much of anything anyway - it doesn’t really make this a big deal to me. You should already realize if you are buying an Apple your repair options are limited. For me, that’s half the reason I do buy apple - so I don’t need to use those options in the first place

FlyByKnight

Apple Island

Ozmodan

Sovrath said:

cheyane said:

Never buy apple products they are overpriced. I frequently tell my friends they are idiots for buying their phones and paying ridiculous prices for them. Told them never to buy the Mac and to always get a PC.

They often ask me for help with their phones and I just hate having to deal with their stupid single button phones and tell them as much. All the while grumbling I do help as they are 65 and above so really no reason for them to have these expensive phones. I wonder how people are this dumb.

Wow, you just sound like a peach.

I should add that I've had an immensely better experience with every mac I've owned than my pc's.

Still have old mac book that works beautifully which I gave to a friend.

I could listen to other people who rant and rave (I'm sure they are just wonderful, really) because that's just who they are or listen to my own experience.

Meanwhile the pc laptops at work are always having issues.

I think I'll go with my own experience. Love my macs.

I just do not get people that buy Mac computers.  The three concepts I always associate with Apple computers is overpriced, underperforming, gamer unfriendly.  That, in a nutshell, makes me wonder why anyone would even bother.  Rumors are they are moving to a proprietary chip in all their Mac products which makes their product worse in my mind.

I actually like their phones and tablets, I use both.  It seems to me that their prospective PC buyer is more about style than what the product does.  

A funny anecdote,  my daughter has several friends that have Apple laptops and I am always getting requests to fix one of them even though my daughter knows I won't touch them.

Phaserlight

Ozmodan said:

Sovrath said:

cheyane said:

Never buy apple products they are overpriced. I frequently tell my friends they are idiots for buying their phones and paying ridiculous prices for them. Told them never to buy the Mac and to always get a PC.

They often ask me for help with their phones and I just hate having to deal with their stupid single button phones and tell them as much. All the while grumbling I do help as they are 65 and above so really no reason for them to have these expensive phones. I wonder how people are this dumb.

Wow, you just sound like a peach.

I should add that I've had an immensely better experience with every mac I've owned than my pc's.

Still have old mac book that works beautifully which I gave to a friend.

I could listen to other people who rant and rave (I'm sure they are just wonderful, really) because that's just who they are or listen to my own experience.

Meanwhile the pc laptops at work are always having issues.

I think I'll go with my own experience. Love my macs.

I just do not get people that buy Mac computers.  The three concepts I always associate with Apple computers is overpriced, underperforming, gamer unfriendly.  That, in a nutshell, makes me wonder why anyone would even bother.  Rumors are they are moving to a proprietary chip in all their Mac products which makes their product worse in my mind.

I actually like their phones and tablets, I use both.  It seems to me that their prospective PC buyer is more about style than what the product does.  

A funny anecdote,  my daughter has several friends that have Apple laptops and I am always getting requests to fix one of them even though my daughter knows I won't touch them.

It's funny because I actually really like Mac desktops; I grew up in an era where on most PCs you still had to type in the file path of a program you wanted to open via command prompt.

Apple may not have invented the desktop metaphor, but they certainly popularized it. 

For a phone, though, I'll stick with Android.  I prefer not to be locked in to a single ecosystem.

Quizzical

Phaserlight said:

Apple may not have invented the desktop metaphor, but they certainly popularized it. 

By "desktop", I think you mean "GUI", or possibly "mouse".

Phaserlight

Quizzical said:

Phaserlight said:

Apple may not have invented the desktop metaphor, but they certainly popularized it. 

By "desktop", I think you mean "GUI", or possibly "mouse".

Sure, but I think my statement is still fair?  Besides the Xerox Alto, were there other serious contenders at the time?  I remember MS-DOS quite well, but I'd never call it a "desktop".

edit: I realize this gets confusing because we are talking about "desktop computers" and here I am using "desktop" to refer to an OS.  I get that the Macintosh "desktop" (seen on screen) is an example of a GUI.

Quizzical

A lot depends on what is broken.  If a laptop motherboard is dead, then I'd recognize that I can't replace that.  But if the problem is that an SSD has failed, I should be able to fix that myself.

Ridelynn

Agreed you should be able to replace a SSD, but keep in mind Apple doesn’t use SATA or even M.2 - they use PCI directly soldered to the motherboard for storage. 

Its very fast, but not very upgradeable.

same thing for the CPU, for RAM, etc.

not saying what apple is doing is right. I agree with upgradabilty. But I have also owned MBPs since the actual Titanium edition, and even for parts that aren’t upgradable or easily replaceable I have to say that I’ve not had many issues that required a repair (although upsizing a hard drive or RAM would be very nice), and no machine holds resale value like an apple for whatever reason.