Ashes 101 - Is it true Ashes is a BR Game now?

jahlon

Text Highlights
No, Ashes is not a BR game now

Asch126

Apparently the BR mode was made solely to test out the PvP [rather than just....making a PvP mode and test that] and will not be in the game.

Come on now, with how much even trusted AAA companies have lied through their teeth in recent years, how can they expect people to believe them when they say this BR mode is merely a test?

Wellspring

But where have they said definitively that BR wouldn't be in the game post launch? Until that happens, you can't rule it out. 

jahlon

I can only go by what they say.   The clip shows that its not something that is set in stone going to be in the final version of the game.  Steven has said that they may keep it, they may not, it depends on the players reactions.   

You are right that we have been burned by a lot of companies in the past.  If they say its a testing atmosphere, its a testing atmosphere.  They may do it as a stand-alone product to show case Ashes as a free game like Fortnite does with their Battle Royale game.

Wizardry

LOL....

We have seen a bunch of BR games come out right after the genre's success.So many copy cat developers out there,no creativity,just copy the current trend.Same when Hearthstone came out with a bang,tons of TCG's popped up and of course same when Wow arrived,tons of copy cat mmorpg's cropped up.

BR=$$$$ and for the successful devs ,bus loads of money,yep you can darn well bet this BR will be part of the game,they are after $$$ FIRST,and the quality of game comes a distant second to $$$.

Look a H1Z1,they completely gave up working on the PVE side of the game and simply went full on BR.They had the balls,scummy audacity to charge people for BOTH parts of the game,so sell it twice lol even though they stopped working on it.Look where that game is now...sigh.

This Ashes game is like the rest of them,smoke and mirrors,play it all up big,get loads of naive people to give them money and game will NEVER be as great as the buildup.
Here is an even funnier thought...TEST?haha maybe testing to see if it is popular enough to go full on BR mode right NOW?If not enough interest,then get back to slowly developing the game.

acidblood

Not against having a BR mode in an MMO, could be fun... I guess the danger is if it becomes the focus (like Fortnite), then everyone who was expecting the rest of the game gets screwed.

Wizardry

The author of this video is well how you say it..NOT an experienced pvp'r.

If he knows anything at all about pvp is that it will NEVER be balanced,pvp cannot ever be balanced in a rpg.Well there is one simple proof way but that would completely make a joke of the combat system,example you do 100 fire damage and i heal for 100,nobody ever wins,you just go back n forth nuke..heal ,,nuke..heal,you catch the drift?

So what will TESTING accomplish?Well exactly what happens ALWAYS in the pvp side of these games>>>>NERF,need balancing,my class is underwhelming,THAT class is OP on and on ,,it gets to be a joke.I have witnessed changes in games where they made ZERO sense,matter of fact they were stupid changes and all because somewhere in the pipeline,the dev team listened to some cry babies.
Second problem,WHOM are the developer going to listen to,there is ALWAYS going to be conflicting complaints,he says the Tank is OP,she says the Nuker is OP,the Archer says both tank and healer are too op,this ALWAYS happens,does this Ashes team think this will be any different?

This author says people that just point out the problem are worse for the game than those who say nothing.Well guess what,game design,COMBAT design,takes a LOT of thought,a lot of looking over the numbers and the delay timers,types of weapons,properties,abilities there is just sooo much.a bunch of gamer's that is likely made up of 90% CLUELESS to game design or how ANY of it works are going to tell YOU the developing team how to code the MANY parts of combat design..lol good one.

jahlon

Wizardry said:

This author says people that just point out the problem are worse for the game than those who say nothing.

Well guess what,game design,COMBAT design,takes a LOT of thought,a lot of looking over the numbers and the delay timers,types of weapons,properties,abilities there is just sooo much.a bunch of gamer's that is likely made up of 90% CLUELESS to game design or how ANY of it works are going to tell YOU the developing team how to code the MANY parts of combat design..lol good one.

I don't think I ever said anywhere that people who just point out the problem are worse for the game than those who say nothing.

I think I said that if you ONLY point out the problems, then you are part of the problem.


"Combat sucks"  Ok, great opinion, but why?

"Combat as a healer is difficult based on the current set up.  There are too many CCs that I can be locked down with and my casting times are too long.   Its a never ending cycle of CC > Damage > CC > Damage and I'm locked down and can't do anything"  - Much better feedback.

As far as the 90% Clueless to game design, I'm just wondering what University you got your Game Design degree from?   

Frykka

Wizardry said:

The author of this video is well how you say it..NOT an experienced pvp'r.

If he knows anything at all about pvp is that it will NEVER be balanced,pvp cannot ever be balanced in a rpg.Well there is one simple proof way but that would completely make a joke of the combat system,example you do 100 fire damage and i heal for 100,nobody ever wins,you just go back n forth nuke..heal ,,nuke..heal,you catch the drift?

So what will TESTING accomplish?Well exactly what happens ALWAYS in the pvp side of these games>>>>NERF,need balancing,my class is underwhelming,THAT class is OP on and on ,,it gets to be a joke.I have witnessed changes in games where they made ZERO sense,matter of fact they were stupid changes and all because somewhere in the pipeline,the dev team listened to some cry babies.
Second problem,WHOM are the developer going to listen to,there is ALWAYS going to be conflicting complaints,he says the Tank is OP,she says the Nuker is OP,the Archer says both tank and healer are too op,this ALWAYS happens,does this Ashes team think this will be any different?

This author says people that just point out the problem are worse for the game than those who say nothing.Well guess what,game design,COMBAT design,takes a LOT of thought,a lot of looking over the numbers and the delay timers,types of weapons,properties,abilities there is just sooo much.a bunch of gamer's that is likely made up of 90% CLUELESS to game design or how ANY of it works are going to tell YOU the developing team how to code the MANY parts of combat design..lol good one.

In large scale you don't "balance" for dueling, 1v1 or even 5v5...  you balance for TTK and focus fire, focus healing.   No one individual is OP in a 50 v 50... yet this is where a well planned group comp can shine and slowly tip the tide removing one player at a time from an opponent force through properly timed heal block (blackmantle) mechanics and dps burst.   Yes, the balancing is tricky and seems to never be done right leading to constant complaints mostly by those 1v1 duel type players.  As long as every class has a role in combat, area control, burst dps, cc, consistent hot, emergency save burst heals...  and the inevitable ult power.   The biggest imbalance is always the firehose healing making TTK too long or the dps power creep making TTK too short.   Ashes is just in baby steps here, CF is much closer to full GvG combat balancing.


Crowfall had its BR, the Hungerdome tests in the spring of 2016...   It is a good place to start and get PvP interest going but it is going to be a long road for Ashes too.

Kajidourden

Youtubers are cancer.

We don't need/want a video for everything.  Nobody thought Ashes was converting to a BR game full-stop.  This is simply an attempt to get more clicks by taking advantage of over-reaction. 

Hopefully MMORPG eventually implements some sort of "No self-promotion" rule for this disease.

Cybersig211

Ahh i can see it now.  BR mode isnt wildly successful, so they start diverting resources to fix issues the playerbase has.  BR mode still isnt successful.  MMORPG canned due to lack of interest and funds.

Im 99% sure they are launching a BR mode because they dont have the money for a full MMORPG, and the success of said "pvp test mode" is going to make or break them.

Making the BR mode takes time and money away from the mmorpg....its not as simple as just dropping their pvp system as a new game.

also, yeah i hate these self promoting youtubers posting for views....annoying as fuck.

Will say that ignoring the BR cancer aspect of it, the combat does look like it could be really fun in a PVE setting, if it ever makes it that far.

Wizbuiz

Whatever lol.. I am just waiting for a valid MMORPG thats not Asian, futuristic and is pure High fantasy.
We are frustrated gamers looking for the pure heroin, until then we gobble up dirt like these obscure new-age mmorpgs as fillers, with their candid flashing graphics, limited utilities, themepark games with  linear storylines.
there Will never be a new EQ, new UO, new vanilla Wow (No the current in progress Will never revive the feeling of the old, after 6months the air Will fade too) nope folks, the Best Way to get a fulltime experience is probably going back ti table top games, read a book, or embark on a new journey in your little human life span you have like.. go backpack around the World, Urll find plenty of afventures and akward questgivers

Cybersig211

Wizbuiz said:

Whatever lol.. I am just waiting for a valid MMORPG thats not Asian, futuristic and is pure High fantasy.
We are frustrated gamers looking for the pure heroin, until then we gobble up dirt like these obscure new-age mmorpgs as fillers, with their candid flashing graphics, limited utilities, themepark games with  linear storylines.
there Will never be a new EQ, new UO, new vanilla Wow (No the current in progress Will never revive the feeling of the old, after 6months the air Will fade too) nope folks, the Best Way to get a fulltime experience is probably going back ti table top games, read a book, or embark on a new journey in your little human life span you have like.. go backpack around the World, Urll find plenty of afventures and akward questgivers

Hmmm id take a futuristic game...really what has there been other than Anarchy Online?  Im sure plenty of failed projects and dead in a month attempts but really theres not been much sci-fi mmorpg attempts, and less that have survived for very long.

Anyway theres an easy solution to your issue.  Get into WOW/ESO/FFXIV.  I understand the pain, ive tried numerous times to get into wow and cant (maybe if it had action combat i would) and same for the others i listed (though i did love the campaign of ESO once i got over the non-skyrim combat part)

Problem i see: why compete in a crowded market? the whole of the online gaming community has choices now, unlike back in the mmorpg golden era...so the market for high fantasy mmorpg or really any mmorpg is small, your not going to crack the wow egg its an anomaly and accomplishes what it tries to do far too well, the other few remaining AAA mmorpgs serve the folks not into wow...and theres not much left to fill a massive AAA mmorpg budget.

Enough time will pass where making a serious MMORPG again will happen, we wont even see another time where 2-3 AAA mmorpgs are launching a year though.  I miss those days even though id never be able to enjoy it a second time around. 

Soybean

LoL I wonder what good some of those cosmetic houses and wagons are going to be in a BR.

Soybean

Wizbuiz said:

Whatever lol.. I am just waiting for a valid MMORPG thats not Asian, futuristic and is pure High fantasy.
We are frustrated gamers looking for the pure heroin, until then we gobble up dirt like these obscure new-age mmorpgs as fillers, with their candid flashing graphics, limited utilities, themepark games with  linear storylines.
there Will never be a new EQ, new UO, new vanilla Wow (No the current in progress Will never revive the feeling of the old, after 6months the air Will fade too) nope folks, the Best Way to get a fulltime experience is probably going back ti table top games, read a book, or embark on a new journey in your little human life span you have like.. go backpack around the World, Urll find plenty of afventures and akward questgivers

So many times these studios have told us that there was going to be a UO 2.0 and what we get is overpriced crap or is vaperware.

slashuser

lol! At first they told everyone it was going to be subscription based game and now it is going free to play. You got to love all of those hidden costs that come with free to play. This certainly isn't the game the people who backed the kick starter campaign were told they were getting.  If they really wanted to stress test the combat why wouldn't they  just have their backers and /or registered users come in and do that? Why promote a whole new game just for testing?

slashuser

I just found this on reddit. It looks like the BR game is going to be pay to advance.

here is the reddit link 

 https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/a4gw9c/the_current_apocalypse_examples_of_free_adventure/




If you look at the images you can see the gold path (paid) has more rewards and exp boots than the silver one (free).

Kyleran

slashuser said:

I just found this on reddit. It looks like the BR game is going to be pay to advance.

here is the reddit link 

 https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/a4gw9c/the_current_apocalypse_examples_of_free_adventure/




If you look at the images you can see the gold path (paid) has more rewards and exp boots than the silver one (free).

Apparently this "only" applies to the BR game, not the MMORPG...but you know.....

Panther2103

Kyleran said:

slashuser said:

I just found this on reddit. It looks like the BR game is going to be pay to advance.

here is the reddit link 

 https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/a4gw9c/the_current_apocalypse_examples_of_free_adventure/




If you look at the images you can see the gold path (paid) has more rewards and exp boots than the silver one (free).

Apparently this "only" applies to the BR game, not the MMORPG...but you know.....

Just like the BR was only a "test", now it's a test you can pay for things in. Pretty neat how it changes. It's all heading in the direction of the developers not knowing what will stick, maybe it will turn into a team based bomb defusing shooter next. 

danwest58

If Steven puts out a good MMORPG and uses this as just a test I will be ok with it.  Also if he puts out a good MMORPG and puts a BR in the MMORPG I am good with that too.   If he puts out a good MMORPGS and puts out a separate BR Game and charges people for it I am good to.   If the MMORPG Sucks and they cut their losses on a BR game then I will be pissed.   My goal is to play a very good Ashes of Creation MMORPG.   

Kyleran

danwest58 said:

If Steven puts out a good MMORPG and uses this as just a test I will be ok with it.  Also if he puts out a good MMORPG and puts a BR in the MMORPG I am good with that too.   If he puts out a good MMORPGS and puts out a separate BR Game and charges people for it I am good to.   If the MMORPG Sucks and they cut their losses on a BR game then I will be pissed.   My goal is to play a very good Ashes of Creation MMORPG.   

While I see your point, my suspicion is the reported $30M in core funding isn't coming through so they need a moneymaker to help fund the MMORPG development.

danwest58

Kyleran said:

danwest58 said:

If Steven puts out a good MMORPG and uses this as just a test I will be ok with it.  Also if he puts out a good MMORPG and puts a BR in the MMORPG I am good with that too.   If he puts out a good MMORPGS and puts out a separate BR Game and charges people for it I am good to.   If the MMORPG Sucks and they cut their losses on a BR game then I will be pissed.   My goal is to play a very good Ashes of Creation MMORPG.   

While I see your point, my suspicion is the reported $30M in core funding isn't coming through so they need a moneymaker to help fund the MMORPG development.

That is a possibly and I would be totally fine with them making a BR game as long as they make a good MMORPG game as their primary focus.  From what I see they have a good amount done on the MMORPG from the videos they have.   

slashuser

Panther2103 said:

Just like the BR was only a "test", now it's a test you can pay for things in. Pretty neat how it changes. It's all heading in the direction of the developers not knowing what will stick, maybe it will turn into a team based bomb defusing shooter next. 

Exactly! The BR was only for testing pvp we were told. Lo' and behold they are making a game out of it. We were told that they are against boots but surprise! There are boots. We were told that this was going to be subscription based for the mmorpg. Instead we get a BR that is free to play. We were told he was going to self publish. Now my.com is the publisher for EU. This was not what people were lead to believe. I suspect that p2w is next. since that usually has a history of following f2p games.

If Steven would have said in the beginning "hey everyone I am making a free to play, BR game with a cosmetic shop. Come and support me on kickstarter. We are also thinking of making a mmorpg game but we will have to see how well the BR does first", I don't think anyone would have been upset with him.

Asch126

Here we are, 2 months later.

I...WAS...RIGHT. Enjoy.

Asch126

Kyleran said:

slashuser said:

I just found this on reddit. It looks like the BR game is going to be pay to advance.

here is the reddit link 

 https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/a4gw9c/the_current_apocalypse_examples_of_free_adventure/




If you look at the images you can see the gold path (paid) has more rewards and exp boots than the silver one (free).

Apparently this "only" applies to the BR game, not the MMORPG...but you know.....

The same BR game that was not supposed to be a game, but only a "test" of the PvP systems?

But you know.

Kajidourden

Epic said the same thing about Fortnite BR, the truth is the dev team is taking resources to build a BR game not a single backer asked for; If I was a backer I would have refunded as soon as they announced BR.