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Ashes of Creation: Apocalypse to Debut as a F2P Battle Royale Mode in December

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    edited November 2018
    Frykka said:00
    Pardon me if I chuckle a little here. I didn't back this because I am testing CF and if I learned anything it is that development is a long process. We had Hungerdome as a BR mode about one year after KS, a very similar timing to this BR. But it ended and closed and we moved on to SP (sieges) and then Big World (harvesting and crafting) all within another 6 months. We are now at the tail end of BW 5 and alpha will be v6.0 2 years after the initial BW. This is with no promised quest chains or PvE content beyond open world mobs and guards. I hope you testers enjoy your BR because it is all you will really have for quite a while.

    I think that this is the reality behind the decision bringing you Apocalypse: that PvE content takes a large AAA team years. You have a large base of PvE players that want nothing to do with PvP or its BR or Arena pieces and that is going to cause a lot of unhappy carebears. You all are dreaming if you think the MMO will release in 2019 let alone 2020 if it to have solid and extensive PvE content as well as open world PvP and the node system integrated. Just sit back and enjoy the wait... For the PvP types that want more than a BR arena, CF will be where it is at.

    I will play Ashes at release but my life is going to be too short to follow another development from KS to launch.
    But, but .  .Steven promised Ashes would have everything at launch, robust PVE, non exploitable PVP, innovative node system all before 2020.

    Remember,  unlike those beggars on the "just 18 more months" CF team Steven had access to $30M in funding to build the "core game" which includes everything above.

    Kickstarter funds were just for bells and whistles (or was it for hookers and blow, can't recall atm) so no worries,  I remain convinced they can still pull a rabbit out of the hat.

    BTW, did I ever tell you about all of the really swell bridges I own in the world?

    ;)


    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • FrykkaFrykka Member UncommonPosts: 154
    edited November 2018
    Kyleran said:
    Frykka said:00
    Pardon me if I chuckle a little here. I didn't back this because I am testing CF and if I learned anything it is that development is a long process. We had Hungerdome as a BR mode about one year after KS, a very similar timing to this BR. But it ended and closed and we moved on to SP (sieges) and then Big World (harvesting and crafting) all within another 6 months. We are now at the tail end of BW 5 and alpha will be v6.0 2 years after the initial BW. This is with no promised quest chains or PvE content beyond open world mobs and guards. I hope you testers enjoy your BR because it is all you will really have for quite a while.

    I think that this is the reality behind the decision bringing you Apocalypse: that PvE content takes a large AAA team years. You have a large base of PvE players that want nothing to do with PvP or its BR or Arena pieces and that is going to cause a lot of unhappy carebears. You all are dreaming if you think the MMO will release in 2019 let alone 2020 if it to have solid and extensive PvE content as well as open world PvP and the node system integrated. Just sit back and enjoy the wait... For the PvP types that want more than a BR arena, CF will be where it is at.

    I will play Ashes at release but my life is going to be too short to follow another development from KS to launch.
    But, but .  .Steven promised Ashes would have everything at launch, robust PVE, non exploitable PVP, innovative node system all before 2020.

    Remember,  unlike those beggars on the "just 18 more months" CF team Steven had access to $30M in funding to build the "core game" which includes everything above.

    Kickstarter funds were just for bells and whistles (or was it for hookers and blow, can't recall atm) so no worries,  I remain convinced they can still pull a rabbit out of the hat.

    BTW, did I ever tell you about all of the really swell bridges I own in the world?

    ;)


    You know Steven is a marketing guy, and the last thing a marketing guy wants is for his hype to die or settle in for the long haul rather. The apocalypse is not about deving a separate game, it is about having people playing something, anything while the long night of the real development that has to happen and is slow and boring and a hype killer drudges on and on and on... just ask us CF white knights about it.

    Bridges have no character unless they house a troll anyway...   or go to nowhere Alaska.
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Torval said:


    Persistent MMO was supposed to be phase 2 and I think that was even reworded from phase 1. There wasn't any mention of Battle Royale, another "game mode" than the MMO, or a completely separate game. I'm pretty cheesed at this.

    And every indie MMO seems to have this issue. I feel they just can't, or won't, stay on track, on task, and focused. It's very frustrating.
    This is not just Indie MMORPGS.   This can be set for ANY IT Support from Indie contractors.  They cant stay on track for DICK.   I work with them in my day to day job.  You know how many times they run off track on to something completely different that might help them make more money because the original contract.  This is normal business with off shoring work to India which needs to stop all together regardless of the industry. 

    As for Ashes.  I am Hyped about this game, however I do agree with you Torval and think this is BS they are not working on a second game which is a Battle Royale game.  NOW that does not mean they shouldnt or couldnt put a 2nd project in the works from their MMORPG.   What I want them to do though is Focus on the MMORPG and I am OK with them taking pieces of the MMORPG for the Battle Royale game.  Just prioritize the MMORPG over the Battle Royale.  
    [Deleted User]
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

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  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited November 2018
    TimEisen said:
    Torval said:
    Lusts said:

    sipu said:



    SlyLoK said:


    I know this will give them data but it worries me that they are doing this to see how it sticks as a standalone game. If it is popular I can easily see the MMO going to the back burner and possibly never releasing.






    It might be the case. Would be similar to Fornite's case creating BR as an alternative to their World invading mode thing to finally bury it alive.



    While I agree with the comment about Ashes, Fortnite actually updates the PvE mode along with the Battle Royale mode. During Season 5, they added a new zone to the PvE mode and there has been countless quality of life changes to the mode. I currently play it. I will say though, their attention to the mode has died down since the release of the Battle Royale mode, but the mode itself has not been neglected.
    The difference here is FN is privately funded and launched. The company has already delivered on its promises for any "prepurchases" or "preorders" they had. This company hasn't delivered a thing and they're already shifting directions not having delivered what they promised.

    This is just like the bullshit ArtCraft pulled with Crowfall and their "unity engine API" project. Great, do it after you launch what you promised and sold. Or that other go nowhere indie MMO that tried to launch of voxel game alongside their MMO then realized that's just as hard and dropped it. Don't even mention the spacefaring game that shall not be name ffs.

    These projects can't stay on track. At this point I have zero confidence that any of them will deliver anything of any use at all. AT this rate they're all going to end up like Shroud, Albion, Project Gorgon, and so on.
    Dual Universe seems like an exception. It doesn't get much press because its French and frankly, quietly productive. They just keep doing a good job. The majority of other games are always putting out BS marketing to gaslight their backers and keep them from asking about funds. All the while Dual just keeps on looking better. 
    Agreed. Dual Universe is doing all the right things and making all the right moves. They are not focused on marketing they are focused on creating. As it should be. 

    I am excited to see the direction of the project going forward. 
    I love that they are using the Unigine 2 engine for their title. 

    Still a couple years out or so but I hope they are successful 
    For the breadth of scope they are including, it has incredibly reasonable system requirements, specifically being to early on in development.

    Comparatively, I would be a lot more confident in SC's ability to deliver their space opera sim if they weren't so insistent that the game needed to have both unprecedented scope and unprecedented visual fidelity.  I'll believe both are possible when I see it work well in the game.  I don't think it's going to work out quite the way or as well as so many hope it will.
    [Deleted User][Deleted User]

    image
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,651
    TimEisen said:
    Torval said:
    Lusts said:

    sipu said:



    SlyLoK said:


    I know this will give them data but it worries me that they are doing this to see how it sticks as a standalone game. If it is popular I can easily see the MMO going to the back burner and possibly never releasing.






    It might be the case. Would be similar to Fornite's case creating BR as an alternative to their World invading mode thing to finally bury it alive.



    While I agree with the comment about Ashes, Fortnite actually updates the PvE mode along with the Battle Royale mode. During Season 5, they added a new zone to the PvE mode and there has been countless quality of life changes to the mode. I currently play it. I will say though, their attention to the mode has died down since the release of the Battle Royale mode, but the mode itself has not been neglected.
    The difference here is FN is privately funded and launched. The company has already delivered on its promises for any "prepurchases" or "preorders" they had. This company hasn't delivered a thing and they're already shifting directions not having delivered what they promised.

    This is just like the bullshit ArtCraft pulled with Crowfall and their "unity engine API" project. Great, do it after you launch what you promised and sold. Or that other go nowhere indie MMO that tried to launch of voxel game alongside their MMO then realized that's just as hard and dropped it. Don't even mention the spacefaring game that shall not be name ffs.

    These projects can't stay on track. At this point I have zero confidence that any of them will deliver anything of any use at all. AT this rate they're all going to end up like Shroud, Albion, Project Gorgon, and so on.
    Dual Universe seems like an exception. It doesn't get much press because its French and frankly, quietly productive. They just keep doing a good job. The majority of other games are always putting out BS marketing to gaslight their backers and keep them from asking about funds. All the while Dual just keeps on looking better. 
    Dual Universe looks good.  Almost backed it but honestly their KS was lackluster.
    Wellspring[Deleted User][Deleted User]

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    And there we have it.

    R.I.P.

    "Battle Royale was just to test the game."
    "The grenade launchers were just to test physics"
    "Combat is going to get fixed, it's not going to be like that"


    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,030
    Even if they have no plans to ever make the game full BR (which I don't think is the case), they are essentially stating right now that they will be splitting their focus.  

    So glad I didn't back this.  I would want a refund right now if I had.

    Say what you will about Crowfall, Pantheon, etc but at least they're sticking to their focus.
    Wellspring
  • MensurMensur Member EpicPosts: 1,531
    When are these game developers from Kickstarter actually stick to the plans the laid out??...FUCK BR! 

    mmorpg junkie since 1999



  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Kickstarter games are like giving somebody a $50 bill to get a specific meal from a specific franchise and they come back the next day with a pack of gum, dish detergent, no change from your $50 + an elaborate story of "wha had happen was...".

    Nothing should surprise anymore.
    MadFrenchie
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,651
    TimEisen said:
    Mensur said:
    When are these game developers from Kickstarter actually stick to the plans the laid out??...FUCK BR! 
    What everyone fails to realize is, they do. They are. Most of the crowd funded games. A KS is not the plan, a KS is the tool to get funding, its a sales pitch and when selling the truth is what it needs to be to make the sell. The actual plan is an entirely different entity from the KS pitch. 
    Why Tim, it almost sounds like you are saying they are being intentionally deceitful...

    You mean when they claim they will develop and launch an entire MMORPG in 18 months they don't really believe it? 

    But what about their Gantt charts?
     
    Kyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    TimEisen said:
    TimEisen said:
    Mensur said:
    When are these game developers from Kickstarter actually stick to the plans the laid out??...FUCK BR! 
    What everyone fails to realize is, they do. They are. Most of the crowd funded games. A KS is not the plan, a KS is the tool to get funding, its a sales pitch and when selling the truth is what it needs to be to make the sell. The actual plan is an entirely different entity from the KS pitch. 
    Why Tim, it almost sounds like you are saying they are being intentionally deceitful...

    You mean when they claim they will develop and launch an entire MMORPG in 18 months they don't really believe it? 

    But what about their Gantt charts?
     
    It depends on the individuals really. From what I've seen some believed it, some convinced themselves to believe it and some knew full well they could never hit their date but how well does a KS go when you tell the consumer they will get their product in 7 years? We don't know because no one has been dumb enough to try it lol.

    If consumers don't understand what selling and marketing are that is on us and its our jobs to educate ourselves so, if we are unhappy with the results, we stop falling for them. We now live in a time where, if you type a word into your phone as a "private" message to a friend you will see ads pop up featuring those products. If the smiling salesman pitches work as well as KS has shown us then God save us from what our phones will do to us. 

    And you can buy my columns for $19.99 BUT, and you know I cant do this all day, if you sign up for my auto pay mail list I can knock that down to $17.25 exclusively for YOU!...and certainly not because data shows people opt in and never opt out so you can bill them to hell...OMG the MMO/GYM membership/Magazine subscription model is everything now! Is it all our fault?
    At this point, I agree that folks should not ever be fooled by crowd funding promises anymore.  We have real evidence.

    The first gen made out like fat rats, though, mostly because they approached a base they knew had no real clue what was realistic and then promised them the sky.  That wasn't an equitable transaction.
    [Deleted User]Kyleran

    image
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,651
    TimEisen said:
    TimEisen said:
    Mensur said:
    When are these game developers from Kickstarter actually stick to the plans the laid out??...FUCK BR! 
    What everyone fails to realize is, they do. They are. Most of the crowd funded games. A KS is not the plan, a KS is the tool to get funding, its a sales pitch and when selling the truth is what it needs to be to make the sell. The actual plan is an entirely different entity from the KS pitch. 
    Why Tim, it almost sounds like you are saying they are being intentionally deceitful...

    You mean when they claim they will develop and launch an entire MMORPG in 18 months they don't really believe it? 

    But what about their Gantt charts?
     
    It depends on the individuals really. From what I've seen some believed it, some convinced themselves to believe it and some knew full well they could never hit their date but how well does a KS go when you tell the consumer they will get their product in 7 years? We don't know because no one has been dumb enough to try it lol.

    If consumers don't understand what selling and marketing are that is on us and its our jobs to educate ourselves so, if we are unhappy with the results, we stop falling for them. We now live in a time where, if you type a word into your phone as a "private" message to a friend you will see ads pop up featuring those products. If the smiling salesman pitches work as well as KS has shown us then God save us from what our phones will do to us. 

    And you can buy my columns for $19.99 BUT, and you know I cant do this all day, if you sign up for my auto pay mail list I can knock that down to $17.25 exclusively for YOU!...and certainly not because data shows people opt in and never opt out so you can bill them to hell...OMG the MMO/GYM membership/Magazine subscription model is everything now! Is it all our fault?
    I agree to a point but disagree that the burden falls only on the consumer.  It is NOT OK to outright lie to get someone's money.  

    Sure we SHOULD be smart enough to recognize it but when you have actual developers who defend unrealistic dates (pointing to their Gantt charts etc...) they need to be held accountable.  There need to be repercussions for saying one thing and doing another.

     

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,749
    TimEisen said:
    TimEisen said:
    Mensur said:
    When are these game developers from Kickstarter actually stick to the plans the laid out??...FUCK BR! 
    What everyone fails to realize is, they do. They are. Most of the crowd funded games. A KS is not the plan, a KS is the tool to get funding, its a sales pitch and when selling the truth is what it needs to be to make the sell. The actual plan is an entirely different entity from the KS pitch. 
    Why Tim, it almost sounds like you are saying they are being intentionally deceitful...

    You mean when they claim they will develop and launch an entire MMORPG in 18 months they don't really believe it? 

    But what about their Gantt charts?
     
    It depends on the individuals really. From what I've seen some believed it, some convinced themselves to believe it and some knew full well they could never hit their date but how well does a KS go when you tell the consumer they will get their product in 7 years? We don't know because no one has been dumb enough to try it lol.

    If consumers don't understand what selling and marketing are that is on us and its our jobs to educate ourselves so, if we are unhappy with the results, we stop falling for them. We now live in a time where, if you type a word into your phone as a "private" message to a friend you will see ads pop up featuring those products. If the smiling salesman pitches work as well as KS has shown us then God save us from what our phones will do to us. 

    And you can buy my columns for $19.99 BUT, and you know I cant do this all day, if you sign up for my auto pay mail list I can knock that down to $17.25 exclusively for YOU!...and certainly not because data shows people opt in and never opt out so you can bill them to hell...OMG the MMO/GYM membership/Magazine subscription model is everything now! Is it all our fault?
    I agree to a point but disagree that the burden falls only on the consumer.  It is NOT OK to outright lie to get someone's money.  

    Sure we SHOULD be smart enough to recognize it but when you have actual developers who defend unrealistic dates (pointing to their Gantt charts etc...) they need to be held accountable.  There need to be repercussions for saying one thing and doing another.

     
    I'm really not liking this trend in blaming the victim instead of the perps.  Pretty soon, people will just break into your house and steal what they want and it will be your fault for not having armed guards.  It's as if Capitalism gives you free reign to be the bad guy and rewarded for it and anyone who gripes is labeled as a rube and deserving it.

    image
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    edited November 2018
    Well, the good thing about Kickstarter is, it cuts the grass and exposes snakes. I just don't see how anybody from the MMORPG genre (especially) could possibly make any excuses as to why investing in a Kickstarter game is a smart bet.

    It's 2018, if you're still doing it I'm sorry to inform you... you're dumb. You're a mark. You're a vic.

    Take it how want. Just know if I made an MMORPG called "You're Dumb: Online" and put some features you like with some concept art you'd agree with me.

    BTW I used your money to make You're Dumb: Battle Royale. Enjoy.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • FrykkaFrykka Member UncommonPosts: 154

    Torval said:


    Lusts said:



    sipu said:





    SlyLoK said:



    I know this will give them data but it worries me that they are doing this to see how it sticks as a standalone game. If it is popular I can easily see the MMO going to the back burner and possibly never releasing.









    It might be the case. Would be similar to Fornite's case creating BR as an alternative to their World invading mode thing to finally bury it alive.






    While I agree with the comment about Ashes, Fortnite actually updates the PvE mode along with the Battle Royale mode. During Season 5, they added a new zone to the PvE mode and there has been countless quality of life changes to the mode. I currently play it. I will say though, their attention to the mode has died down since the release of the Battle Royale mode, but the mode itself has not been neglected.


    The difference here is FN is privately funded and launched. The company has already delivered on its promises for any "prepurchases" or "preorders" they had. This company hasn't delivered a thing and they're already shifting directions not having delivered what they promised.

    This is just like the bullshit ArtCraft pulled with Crowfall and their "unity engine API" project. Great, do it after you launch what you promised and sold. Or that other go nowhere indie MMO that tried to launch of voxel game alongside their MMO then realized that's just as hard and dropped it. Don't even mention the spacefaring game that shall not be name ffs.

    These projects can't stay on track. At this point I have zero confidence that any of them will deliver anything of any use at all. AT this rate they're all going to end up like Shroud, Albion, Project Gorgon, and so on.



    What you don't seem to acknowledge here is that the 4 added engineers working on the Unity API are directly improving the Crowfall engine on the back end as the major part of their current work. Crowfall and the Unity API are still one and the same and not split like you imply. So patch 5.8 that hit the Testing server has all of the Unity 2018 improvements to both graphics quality from the Unity folks who have a team dedicated to CF and from the CF engineers working the API optimization. Performance of the Crowfall engine is the top priority of this daughter company. Sales of the API later will give additional funding for post launch updates.

    [Deleted User]Kyleran
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,030
    edited November 2018
    Torval said:
    Frykka said:

    Torval said:


    Lusts said:



    sipu said:





    SlyLoK said:



    I know this will give them data but it worries me that they are doing this to see how it sticks as a standalone game. If it is popular I can easily see the MMO going to the back burner and possibly never releasing.









    It might be the case. Would be similar to Fornite's case creating BR as an alternative to their World invading mode thing to finally bury it alive.






    While I agree with the comment about Ashes, Fortnite actually updates the PvE mode along with the Battle Royale mode. During Season 5, they added a new zone to the PvE mode and there has been countless quality of life changes to the mode. I currently play it. I will say though, their attention to the mode has died down since the release of the Battle Royale mode, but the mode itself has not been neglected.


    The difference here is FN is privately funded and launched. The company has already delivered on its promises for any "prepurchases" or "preorders" they had. This company hasn't delivered a thing and they're already shifting directions not having delivered what they promised.

    This is just like the bullshit ArtCraft pulled with Crowfall and their "unity engine API" project. Great, do it after you launch what you promised and sold. Or that other go nowhere indie MMO that tried to launch of voxel game alongside their MMO then realized that's just as hard and dropped it. Don't even mention the spacefaring game that shall not be name ffs.

    These projects can't stay on track. At this point I have zero confidence that any of them will deliver anything of any use at all. AT this rate they're all going to end up like Shroud, Albion, Project Gorgon, and so on.



    What you don't seem to acknowledge here is that the 4 added engineers working on the Unity API are directly improving the Crowfall engine on the back end as the major part of their current work. Crowfall and the Unity API are still one and the same and not split like you imply. So patch 5.8 that hit the Testing server has all of the Unity 2018 improvements to both graphics quality from the Unity folks who have a team dedicated to CF and from the CF engineers working the API optimization. Performance of the Crowfall engine is the top priority of this daughter company. Sales of the API later will give additional funding for post launch updates.

    What you don't seem to get is that it won't matter at all. It doesn't matter. They can miracle man month the project all they want with reassuring wordsmithing. It doesn't change the fact that they're way off target for what they promised to deliver in their crowd funding campaign and they're leveraging that capital, directly or indirectly, to go off on a tangent.
    In the case of Ashes they have basically told their backers "Fuck you, we're going to use your money to make a game nobody asked for because it will make us cash"

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,150
    This seems like what happened to The Repopulation.  They likely won't get past the Battle Royal.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

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