There's a point at which the consumer can be blamed, but the corporation is also at fault. If this situation becomes epidemic, well, we already saw the results of that with the infamous video game crash. The gaming industry would do well to remember their history when they flood the market with crap.
Agreed. I haven't seen lot of evidence to back up the fact that consumers can effect a proactive and gradual effort to ease a market back in the right direction.
If you're waiting on consumers to take up that mantle, you're asking for a jarring shock to the market.
It's just the norm that New Releases are Betas. Maybe players/reviewers should wait a few months for the 'actual' releases of games. Soft date is the New Release/Beta, and hard date is when they get their shit together and have a complete working game.
That's the date I'd wait for to review and play....ha
Gut Out!
It's been a disturbing trend of selling the title way before it's actually completed to use those funds to turn around and, actuallt y'know, complete the game.
Terrible practice. Valve shares the blame for how heavily they push the Early Access products. They contributed heavily to the "sell it before it's ready" idea.
It's still the players' fault. No one is forcing them to buy something that is advertised as "unfinished."
It says right there what they are getting into but they buy it anyway and then cry because it was exactly as advertised "unfinished."
How the hell they can operate in their own lives is beyond me.
Maybe it's a generation thing. We called it commons sense.
Its not just in purchases. I teach at the university level and every year the students doing poorly come to me (usually a week or two from the end of the semester) and beg for extra credit or extra assignments so they can bail themselves out. You should see the look when I tell them "not a chance".
I am with you though. Every purchase I make, there is a risk. I know when I pay $60 for a game, I am taking a risk. Heck, when I spend $7 on chicken for dinner tonight, I am taking a risk. When I order that $4 combo at McDonalds, I am taking a risk. The issues is that people believe that enough complaining allows this to be absolved of all risk. And risk is relative to the price.
As I have said before, I love FO 76 and had hardly any negative experience except performance. It runs like a dumptruck and its has to be something with it - I can FO 4 on max, ESO on High, etc... It should run better than it does. However, its performance was within the level of risk I deemed acceptable at purchase. Now if I just dropped $40k on a car and it ran like that, I would be at the dealership complaining.
If you purchase any game, even "finished" there is risk. I do not understand it when people are always blaming the company and asking for refunds. Yes there is a level that is needed but I do not think FO 76 is anywhere near it. And for the record, I got the tri-centennial edition and spent $80. So far it has been worth it (except performance which I know will get better).
This is less analogous to asking for extra credit when you failed the expectations clearly laid out for you at the beginning of the semester than it is if you had, say, stopped giving them lectures completely halfway through the semester but expected them to pass the same test you made when you planned on lecturing the entirety of the material during the semester.
The analogy would be that they signed up for a class with a specific teacher but found out the teacher was traveling a lot and may or may not be there and they might have to have a teaching assistant.
So you could take your chance and get a great education with that teacher or that teacher might not be available and you will just learn the course through someone else.
You know the risk and you can sign up or not.
Also, from their website:
When will these games release?
Its up to the developer to determine when they are ready to
'release'. Some developers have a concrete deadline in mind, while
others will get a better sense as the development of the game
progresses. You should be aware that some teams will be unable to
'finish' their game. So you should only buy an Early Access game if you
are excited about playing it in its current state.
I was not using that as an analogy as much as I was saying that its commonplace today to expect that risk is always avoidable. In this case, students think faculty will bail them out so they assume no risk and have an expectation of being given slack at the end. I think society today as a whole acts this way but it is much more common in the younger generations because, as studies show, their parents/teachers/school always save them from failure...i.e...risk.
Completely agree.
Millennials came of age during the time the government bailed out sleazy CEOs after the bubble popped... Is it so strange that we would believe the common man might catch a break when they fail when those who are richer than we could ever imagine get propped up when they maliciously cause their market to fail?
Yeah but there have always been bad, sleazy people in government, CEO's, etc.
It wasn't different in the 70's or the 50's. Henry Ford was a horrible person and when the railroad was made across the US ....
This is nothing new. The only sad thing is that people are constantly forgetting.
The sleazy people my post is most touching on isn't a CEO, it's the government that allowed them to run away with metric fuck tons of cash despite having crashed the market and fucked the common folks royally and intentionally.
Millennials aren't whiny about consequences, they just aren't gonna accept "cuz they're rich!" as an adequately logical reason for why some folks get passes while others don't. When the consequences aren't applied equitably, millennials feel the need to tell the governing body that isn't applying the consequences equitably to fuck right the hell off.
And yet they can't get it together enough to be wary of early access?
Children's TV has brought them up to be good little consumers.
There's a point at which the consumer can be blamed, but the corporation is also at fault. If this situation becomes epidemic, well, we already saw the results of that with the infamous video game crash. The gaming industry would do well to remember their history when they flood the market with crap.
Agreed. I haven't seen lot of evidence to back up the fact that consumers can effect a proactive and gradual effort to ease a market back in the right direction.
If you're waiting on consumers to take up that mantle, you're asking for a jarring shock to the market.
And while we're not at that point yet, consumer confidence in multiple titanic IPs has been shaken these past few years.
Mass Effect is dead. Dragon Age is almost dead.
Metal Gear is dead.
Silent Hills is dead.
The only thing keeping Castlevania relevant is a stellar Netflix series.
Fallout has mud on its face.
Star Wars' name is now dirt in the gaming sphere.
The list goes on. When you add that to other major casualties over the last few years (Deus Ex, Dead Space, Hitman, etc.) we're starting to see the industry leaders lose their name recognition in favor of short term cash.
As @Aender alludes to, you really don't have the demographical data to back up the idea that millennials are the root cause of buyer's remorse pushback. In general, this is why it's such a fool's errand to keep trying to demand consumers change their behavior.
It's literally trying to herd thousands of cats towards a job when you've got a pack of trained German Shepherds sitting around you could accomplish the goal with instead.
Well, maybe it's a generational thing. I mean, yes, I don't know of any data that supports the buyer's remorse pushback among younger consumers but it wasn't really a thing when I was younger.
Not to say people weren't upset at purchasing bad items but it was always drilled into us that you are responsible for your money and what you do with it. Like the joke we were always told of "I have a bridge to sell ya!" (because a guy actually sold the Brooklyn bridge several times to gullible people)
Or when I was a really young kid and I wanted to buy Sea Monkeys (because "duh - SEA MONKEYS!") and my mother explained to me what they really were but I didn't believe her because what do mothers know about the greatest discovery since X-Ray glasses (duh) so she said ok buy them.
And I did and yadda, yadda, yadda, valuable lesson.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Today I played 3 hours again. Spending my time on this fucking garbage bugfest of a game. Me and buddies had to log off, shuffle around invites, relog, remove each other from the friend list etc to get to the same fucking SERVER. Then a nuke hits and that server goes down. This game was not tested at all - it's a quick cashgrab as most reviews would say.
Quite frankly I LIKE playing this game with my buddies. But the problems are GARGANTUAN at this point. The inventory space, all restrictions (a leather right arm lvl 50 when you are 20?). Everything is tailored to bother the player, this same theme continues through the game.
Thank god I didn't pay anything for this fiasco, I had to be convinced for a week to ACCEPT gift of this fucking game. I don't even feel sorry for those who bought it as Beta already told you exactly what would happen.
As @Aender alludes to, you really don't have the demographical data to back up the idea that millennials are the root cause of buyer's remorse pushback. In general, this is why it's such a fool's errand to keep trying to demand consumers change their behavior.
It's literally trying to herd thousands of cats towards a job when you've got a pack of trained German Shepherds sitting around you could accomplish the goal with instead.
Well, maybe it's a generational thing. I mean, yes, I don't know of any data that supports the buyer's remorse pushback among younger consumers but it wasn't really a thing when I was younger.
Not to say people weren't upset at purchasing bad items but it was always drilled into us that you are responsible for your money and what you do with it. Like the joke we were always told of "I have a bridge to sell ya!" (because a guy actually sold the bridge several times to gullible people)
Or when I was a really young kid and I wanted to buy Sea Monkeys (because "duh - SEA MONKEYS!") and my mother explained to me what they really were but I didn't believe her because what do mother's know about the greatest discovery since X-Ray glasses (duh) so she said ok buy them.
And I did and yadda, yadda, yadda, valuable lesson.
There are definitely drifts in zeitgeist between generations.
However, I must reiterate that if our desire is just to eliminate bad practices, it is still more efficient and effective to attack that problem from the producer side than the consumer. You can't even ever be sure all consumers will hear you. But you sure as hell can ensure publishers/devs do.
If we're concerned with preventing or eliminating shady practices and not trying to cut down our fellow consuners or devs through a personal grudge, it's clear that, rationally, this problem should be attacked on the producer side, not the consumer side, to be most effective.
As @Aender alludes to, you really don't have the demographical data to back up the idea that millennials are the root cause of buyer's remorse pushback. In general, this is why it's such a fool's errand to keep trying to demand consumers change their behavior.
It's literally trying to herd thousands of cats towards a job when you've got a pack of trained German Shepherds sitting around you could accomplish the goal with instead.
Well, maybe it's a generational thing. I mean, yes, I don't know of any data that supports the buyer's remorse pushback among younger consumers but it wasn't really a thing when I was younger.
Not to say people weren't upset at purchasing bad items but it was always drilled into us that you are responsible for your money and what you do with it. Like the joke we were always told of "I have a bridge to sell ya!" (because a guy actually sold the bridge several times to gullible people)
Or when I was a really young kid and I wanted to buy Sea Monkeys (because "duh - SEA MONKEYS!") and my mother explained to me what they really were but I didn't believe her because what do mother's know about the greatest discovery since X-Ray glasses (duh) so she said ok buy them.
And I did and yadda, yadda, yadda, valuable lesson.
There are definitely drifts in zeitgeist between generations.
However, I must reiterate that if our desire is just to eliminate bad practices, it is still more efficient and effective to attack that problem from the producer side than the consumer. You can't even ever be sure all consumers will hear you. But you sure as hell can ensure publishers/devs do.
If we're concerned with preventing or eliminating shady practices and not trying to cut down our fellow consuners or devs through a personal grudge, it's clear that, rationally, this problem should be attacked on the producer side, not the consumer side, to be most effective.
I'm not saying to just go after consumers but I do think that people need to be more responsible.
If people were better educated they wouldn't be throwing their money away or at the very least will understand what the risks are.
I can't say that I have ever been absolutely angry at a video game purchase because I didn't know what I was getting into.
I would be very curious to see if the same people who initially complained about video game buyer's remorse continued to act the same way and continued to buy sketchy games.
It's hard to say. War on Drugs said go after the drug makers but that never worked. If there was no demand then they would be out of business but there is always demand.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To add, I'm lvl 20 in F76. I feel the time to get there has taken much longer than 40 in F4 as I only partly enjoy what I'm doing. Alone I wouldn't play F76 a single second.
Currently I don't buy EA games at all, after this game, it will be tough to sell me on other Bethesda games too. Before this Bethesda could count modders fixing their game - not here. I have very little faith in the company that put this game out as is.
As @Aender alludes to, you really don't have the demographical data to back up the idea that millennials are the root cause of buyer's remorse pushback. In general, this is why it's such a fool's errand to keep trying to demand consumers change their behavior.
It's literally trying to herd thousands of cats towards a job when you've got a pack of trained German Shepherds sitting around you could accomplish the goal with instead.
Well, maybe it's a generational thing. I mean, yes, I don't know of any data that supports the buyer's remorse pushback among younger consumers but it wasn't really a thing when I was younger.
Not to say people weren't upset at purchasing bad items but it was always drilled into us that you are responsible for your money and what you do with it. Like the joke we were always told of "I have a bridge to sell ya!" (because a guy actually sold the bridge several times to gullible people)
Or when I was a really young kid and I wanted to buy Sea Monkeys (because "duh - SEA MONKEYS!") and my mother explained to me what they really were but I didn't believe her because what do mother's know about the greatest discovery since X-Ray glasses (duh) so she said ok buy them.
And I did and yadda, yadda, yadda, valuable lesson.
There are definitely drifts in zeitgeist between generations.
However, I must reiterate that if our desire is just to eliminate bad practices, it is still more efficient and effective to attack that problem from the producer side than the consumer. You can't even ever be sure all consumers will hear you. But you sure as hell can ensure publishers/devs do.
If we're concerned with preventing or eliminating shady practices and not trying to cut down our fellow consuners or devs through a personal grudge, it's clear that, rationally, this problem should be attacked on the producer side, not the consumer side, to be most effective.
I'm not saying to just go after consumers but I do think that people need to be more responsible.
If people were better educated they wouldn't be throwing their money away or at the very least will understand what the risks are.
I can't say that I have ever been absolutely angry at a video game purchase because I didn't know what I was getting into.
I would be very curious to see if the same people who initially complained about video game buyer's remorse continued to act the same way and continued to buy sketchy games.
It's hard to say. War on Drugs said go after the drug makers but that never worked. If there was no demand then they would be out of business but there is always demand.
Okay, here's the problem. Those "sketchy" games belong to non-sketchy IPs. This industry sells itself on brands. It creates and profits off of loyalty, and maintaining that is crucial.
Fallout 76 isn't just a bad game. It's a case of substantial brand damage. Is it going to kill the Fallout IP by itself? Probably not, but there is precedent for it.
Mass Effect Andromeda damaged the Mass Effect brand enough to put the entire IP on ice. It is a case study in the worst case scenarios for these situations. This is what happens when we blame the customer that didn't beware rather than the company that didn't care. We lose the IPs that helped make our medium as successful as it is, and that undermines the entire foundation of IP strength and name recognition that has made gaming what it is today.
As @Aender alludes to, you really don't have the demographical data to back up the idea that millennials are the root cause of buyer's remorse pushback. In general, this is why it's such a fool's errand to keep trying to demand consumers change their behavior.
It's literally trying to herd thousands of cats towards a job when you've got a pack of trained German Shepherds sitting around you could accomplish the goal with instead.
Well, maybe it's a generational thing. I mean, yes, I don't know of any data that supports the buyer's remorse pushback among younger consumers but it wasn't really a thing when I was younger.
Not to say people weren't upset at purchasing bad items but it was always drilled into us that you are responsible for your money and what you do with it. Like the joke we were always told of "I have a bridge to sell ya!" (because a guy actually sold the bridge several times to gullible people)
Or when I was a really young kid and I wanted to buy Sea Monkeys (because "duh - SEA MONKEYS!") and my mother explained to me what they really were but I didn't believe her because what do mother's know about the greatest discovery since X-Ray glasses (duh) so she said ok buy them.
And I did and yadda, yadda, yadda, valuable lesson.
There are definitely drifts in zeitgeist between generations.
However, I must reiterate that if our desire is just to eliminate bad practices, it is still more efficient and effective to attack that problem from the producer side than the consumer. You can't even ever be sure all consumers will hear you. But you sure as hell can ensure publishers/devs do.
If we're concerned with preventing or eliminating shady practices and not trying to cut down our fellow consuners or devs through a personal grudge, it's clear that, rationally, this problem should be attacked on the producer side, not the consumer side, to be most effective.
I'm not saying to just go after consumers but I do think that people need to be more responsible.
If people were better educated they wouldn't be throwing their money away or at the very least will understand what the risks are.
I can't say that I have ever been absolutely angry at a video game purchase because I didn't know what I was getting into.
I would be very curious to see if the same people who initially complained about video game buyer's remorse continued to act the same way and continued to buy sketchy games.
It's hard to say. War on Drugs said go after the drug makers but that never worked. If there was no demand then they would be out of business but there is always demand.
How do you stop someone from doing stupid shit with their own money?
I've had this dilemma for a very long time. It started with Mortal Online and the crap they released. People get very defensive and tell you that they can do whatever they want with their own money. And why do you care?
Well, I cared... and still do care... because every time we allow a company to lower the bar of what they can deliver... inevitably another company will use that as a baseline and lower it further. We aren't talking about mass market products that fear some bad press. Selling 100k of an MMORPG can result in a tidy profit and you can alienate 90% of the potential player pool and still easily get 100k players. Hell... 10% of the people that play Fortnite would be 20,000,000 if you believe the numbers being tossed around.
So as long as people do stupid shit with their own money... it's never going to change on the consumer side because there is ALWAYS someone dumb enough to plop down the cash. I mean... some people even plopped down money for that Titov wild west cash grab. If that didn't have a red nuclear-radiated flag on it I don't know what would.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
As @Aender alludes to, you really don't have the demographical data to back up the idea that millennials are the root cause of buyer's remorse pushback. In general, this is why it's such a fool's errand to keep trying to demand consumers change their behavior.
It's literally trying to herd thousands of cats towards a job when you've got a pack of trained German Shepherds sitting around you could accomplish the goal with instead.
Well, maybe it's a generational thing. I mean, yes, I don't know of any data that supports the buyer's remorse pushback among younger consumers but it wasn't really a thing when I was younger.
Not to say people weren't upset at purchasing bad items but it was always drilled into us that you are responsible for your money and what you do with it. Like the joke we were always told of "I have a bridge to sell ya!" (because a guy actually sold the bridge several times to gullible people)
Or when I was a really young kid and I wanted to buy Sea Monkeys (because "duh - SEA MONKEYS!") and my mother explained to me what they really were but I didn't believe her because what do mother's know about the greatest discovery since X-Ray glasses (duh) so she said ok buy them.
And I did and yadda, yadda, yadda, valuable lesson.
There are definitely drifts in zeitgeist between generations.
However, I must reiterate that if our desire is just to eliminate bad practices, it is still more efficient and effective to attack that problem from the producer side than the consumer. You can't even ever be sure all consumers will hear you. But you sure as hell can ensure publishers/devs do.
If we're concerned with preventing or eliminating shady practices and not trying to cut down our fellow consuners or devs through a personal grudge, it's clear that, rationally, this problem should be attacked on the producer side, not the consumer side, to be most effective.
I'm not saying to just go after consumers but I do think that people need to be more responsible.
If people were better educated they wouldn't be throwing their money away or at the very least will understand what the risks are.
I can't say that I have ever been absolutely angry at a video game purchase because I didn't know what I was getting into.
I would be very curious to see if the same people who initially complained about video game buyer's remorse continued to act the same way and continued to buy sketchy games.
It's hard to say. War on Drugs said go after the drug makers but that never worked. If there was no demand then they would be out of business but there is always demand.
Okay, here's the problem. Those "sketchy" games belong to non-sketchy IPs. This industry sells itself on brands. It creates and profits off of loyalty, and maintaining that is crucial.
Fallout 76 isn't just a bad game. It's a case of substantial brand damage. Is it going to kill the Fallout IP by itself? Probably not, but there is precedent for it.
Mass Effect Andromeda damaged the Mass Effect brand enough to put the entire IP on ice. It is a case study in the worst case scenarios for these situations. This is what happens when we blame the customer that didn't beware rather than the company that didn't care. We lose the IPs that helped make our medium as successful as it is, and that undermines the entire foundation of IP strength and name recognition that has made gaming what it is today.
yeah but "a" game is releasd, the devoted customers buy it, find out it's crap and then theoretically wait and see on the next one.
That one game may be a fluke or may be the start of a trend.
The IP belongs to the developers and it's their IP to continue to evolve and expand or destroy.
One bad game in a series of good games isn't an issue in my eyes. Just ask for your refund. If it's an early access game then players should "buyer beware." Though if it's on Steam you have a window where you can get a refund.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To add, I'm lvl 20 in F76. I feel the time to get there has taken much longer than 40 in F4 as I only partly enjoy what I'm doing. Alone I wouldn't play F76 a single second.
Currently I don't buy EA games at all, after this game, it will be tough to sell me on other Bethesda games too. Before this Bethesda could count modders fixing their game - not here. I have very little faith in the company that put this game out as is.
I agree-
I've been a huge Bethesda fan since Morrowind and although ive seen a decline in depth in the Elder scrolls series they've always been stellar games. In fact, any ES game or Fallout game was an instant pre order for me...
This one was the last. I feel burned and I feel this was a cash grab and a cash grab was exactly what they were going for- the IP be damned... They knew their loyal fanbase and those in love with the IP would buy this on the name alone and then they talked the game up ("biggest game ever !", etc) to assure those sales numbers.
And this was garbage. The idea was interesting but there was no love, care or quality put into this- Simply a cash in.
I'm not looking for refund- I played maybe 30 hours or so and even if I could get one, I wouldn't. I'll never pre order another bethesda game and theres a good chance I wont be buying another one either.
With all the money they've milked out of the 100 re-releases of Skyrim (where they havnt even bothered fixing gamebreaking bugs that modders have had a handle on for years) they could have put plenty of time and money behind fallout 76 and what we received was a slap in the face .
As @Aender alludes to, you really don't have the demographical data to back up the idea that millennials are the root cause of buyer's remorse pushback. In general, this is why it's such a fool's errand to keep trying to demand consumers change their behavior.
It's literally trying to herd thousands of cats towards a job when you've got a pack of trained German Shepherds sitting around you could accomplish the goal with instead.
Well, maybe it's a generational thing. I mean, yes, I don't know of any data that supports the buyer's remorse pushback among younger consumers but it wasn't really a thing when I was younger.
Not to say people weren't upset at purchasing bad items but it was always drilled into us that you are responsible for your money and what you do with it. Like the joke we were always told of "I have a bridge to sell ya!" (because a guy actually sold the bridge several times to gullible people)
Or when I was a really young kid and I wanted to buy Sea Monkeys (because "duh - SEA MONKEYS!") and my mother explained to me what they really were but I didn't believe her because what do mother's know about the greatest discovery since X-Ray glasses (duh) so she said ok buy them.
And I did and yadda, yadda, yadda, valuable lesson.
There are definitely drifts in zeitgeist between generations.
However, I must reiterate that if our desire is just to eliminate bad practices, it is still more efficient and effective to attack that problem from the producer side than the consumer. You can't even ever be sure all consumers will hear you. But you sure as hell can ensure publishers/devs do.
If we're concerned with preventing or eliminating shady practices and not trying to cut down our fellow consuners or devs through a personal grudge, it's clear that, rationally, this problem should be attacked on the producer side, not the consumer side, to be most effective.
I'm not saying to just go after consumers but I do think that people need to be more responsible.
If people were better educated they wouldn't be throwing their money away or at the very least will understand what the risks are.
I can't say that I have ever been absolutely angry at a video game purchase because I didn't know what I was getting into.
I would be very curious to see if the same people who initially complained about video game buyer's remorse continued to act the same way and continued to buy sketchy games.
It's hard to say. War on Drugs said go after the drug makers but that never worked. If there was no demand then they would be out of business but there is always demand.
That's a little bit different situation in that it's literal drug cartels supplying the product. Here, we have a framework already for the transaction. It just needs to be improved.
Believe me, I have little sympathy for those who feel they got taken by FO76. But avoiding these situations is more realistically done from the producer perspective than it is from the consumer.
To blame such a nebulous and disaparate group of people for an issue, I'm gonna need to see controls on the shady shit being offered to such a nebulous entity.
To add, I'm lvl 20 in F76. I feel the time to get there has taken much longer than 40 in F4 as I only partly enjoy what I'm doing. Alone I wouldn't play F76 a single second.
Currently I don't buy EA games at all, after this game, it will be tough to sell me on other Bethesda games too. Before this Bethesda could count modders fixing their game - not here. I have very little faith in the company that put this game out as is.
I agree-
I've been a huge Bethesda fan since Morrowind and although ive seen a decline in depth in the Elder scrolls series they've always been stellar games. In fact, any ES game or Fallout game was an instant pre order for me...
This one was the last. I feel burned and I feel this was a cash grab and a cash grab was exactly what they were going for- the IP be damned... They knew their loyal fanbase and those in love with the IP would buy this on the name alone and then they talked the game up ("biggest game ever !", etc) to assure those sales numbers.
And this was garbage. The idea was interesting but there was no love, care or quality put into this- Simply a cash in.
I'm not looking for refund- I played maybe 30 hours or so and even if I could get one, I wouldn't. I'll never pre order another bethesda game and theres a good chance I wont be buying another one either.
With all the money they've milked out of the 100 re-releases of Skyrim (where they havnt even bothered fixing gamebreaking bugs that modders have had a handle on for years) they could have put plenty of time and money behind fallout 76 and what we received was a slap in the face .
I've been playing F4 again on the side after a total of around 250 hours spent in the game. Again with a new character. I feel how well crafted that game is especially with "unofficial F4 patch" and such "mods". Again spending 80+ hours in the game as it's FUN to play. I get to do exactly what I want, I don't have to read every note, terminal and listen to every holotape.
This is also the first time I have the "season pass" so I have all new DLC zones and such in that game. When my buddies get on, I feel obliged to join them in F76, but sad to leave F4.
I'll still be going back to play F76, but currently, it's a chore and more about helping my friends from other games, than Fallout.
I've done the starting quest-line for responders, the village->airport 5 times now.
Hate me all you want but the fault of what`s happening in the game industry is all ours. We keep buying early access, preorders over and over, gaming companies know that and they will use it to make more money with the least effort possible.
Only way is voting with your wallet that`s what i do but sadly only a few do that
Nothing special, it's to get you to shut up. Nothing more.
They aren't the only ones. Bungie and Blizzard both have recently made mean culpa's focused on "we wanna communicate better."
It's a pretty generic message.
On a side note, bring back the real MadFrenchie avatar. lol
Do not speak ill of the avatar. That was done by a really famous artist!
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Nothing special, it's to get you to shut up. Nothing more.
They aren't the only ones. Bungie and Blizzard both have recently made mean culpa's focused on "we wanna communicate better."
It's a pretty generic message.
On a side note, bring back the real MadFrenchie avatar. lol
Haha thanks! That avatar does fit my username perfectly. I'll be bringing it back eventually (I use it universally for my accounts under this name), but @ConstantineMerus made this picture and I found it too funny not to use for a while.
Nothing special, it's to get you to shut up. Nothing more.
They aren't the only ones. Bungie and Blizzard both have recently made mean culpa's focused on "we wanna communicate better."
It's a pretty generic message.
On a side note, bring back the real MadFrenchie avatar. lol
Haha thanks! That avatar does fit my username perfectly. I'll be bringing it back eventually (I use it universally for my accounts under this name), but @ConstantineMerus made this picture and I found it too funny not to use for a while.
I already have an idea for your next one.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
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If you're waiting on consumers to take up that mantle, you're asking for a jarring shock to the market.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Mass Effect is dead. Dragon Age is almost dead.
Metal Gear is dead.
Silent Hills is dead.
The only thing keeping Castlevania relevant is a stellar Netflix series.
Fallout has mud on its face.
Star Wars' name is now dirt in the gaming sphere.
The list goes on. When you add that to other major casualties over the last few years (Deus Ex, Dead Space, Hitman, etc.) we're starting to see the industry leaders lose their name recognition in favor of short term cash.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Quite frankly I LIKE playing this game with my buddies. But the problems are GARGANTUAN at this point. The inventory space, all restrictions (a leather right arm lvl 50 when you are 20?). Everything is tailored to bother the player, this same theme continues through the game.
Thank god I didn't pay anything for this fiasco, I had to be convinced for a week to ACCEPT gift of this fucking game. I don't even feel sorry for those who bought it as Beta already told you exactly what would happen.
However, I must reiterate that if our desire is just to eliminate bad practices, it is still more efficient and effective to attack that problem from the producer side than the consumer. You can't even ever be sure all consumers will hear you. But you sure as hell can ensure publishers/devs do.
If we're concerned with preventing or eliminating shady practices and not trying to cut down our fellow consuners or devs through a personal grudge, it's clear that, rationally, this problem should be attacked on the producer side, not the consumer side, to be most effective.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Currently I don't buy EA games at all, after this game, it will be tough to sell me on other Bethesda games too. Before this Bethesda could count modders fixing their game - not here. I have very little faith in the company that put this game out as is.
Fallout 76 isn't just a bad game. It's a case of substantial brand damage. Is it going to kill the Fallout IP by itself? Probably not, but there is precedent for it.
Mass Effect Andromeda damaged the Mass Effect brand enough to put the entire IP on ice. It is a case study in the worst case scenarios for these situations. This is what happens when we blame the customer that didn't beware rather than the company that didn't care. We lose the IPs that helped make our medium as successful as it is, and that undermines the entire foundation of IP strength and name recognition that has made gaming what it is today.
I've had this dilemma for a very long time. It started with Mortal Online and the crap they released. People get very defensive and tell you that they can do whatever they want with their own money. And why do you care?
Well, I cared... and still do care... because every time we allow a company to lower the bar of what they can deliver... inevitably another company will use that as a baseline and lower it further. We aren't talking about mass market products that fear some bad press. Selling 100k of an MMORPG can result in a tidy profit and you can alienate 90% of the potential player pool and still easily get 100k players. Hell... 10% of the people that play Fortnite would be 20,000,000 if you believe the numbers being tossed around.
So as long as people do stupid shit with their own money... it's never going to change on the consumer side because there is ALWAYS someone dumb enough to plop down the cash. I mean... some people even plopped down money for that Titov wild west cash grab. If that didn't have a red nuclear-radiated flag on it I don't know what would.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I've been a huge Bethesda fan since Morrowind and although ive seen a decline in depth in the Elder scrolls series they've always been stellar games. In fact, any ES game or Fallout game was an instant pre order for me...
This one was the last. I feel burned and I feel this was a cash grab and a cash grab was exactly what they were going for- the IP be damned... They knew their loyal fanbase and those in love with the IP would buy this on the name alone and then they talked the game up ("biggest game ever !", etc) to assure those sales numbers.
And this was garbage. The idea was interesting but there was no love, care or quality put into this- Simply a cash in.
I'm not looking for refund- I played maybe 30 hours or so and even if I could get one, I wouldn't. I'll never pre order another bethesda game and theres a good chance I wont be buying another one either.
With all the money they've milked out of the 100 re-releases of Skyrim (where they havnt even bothered fixing gamebreaking bugs that modders have had a handle on for years) they could have put plenty of time and money behind fallout 76 and what we received was a slap in the face .
Believe me, I have little sympathy for those who feel they got taken by FO76. But avoiding these situations is more realistically done from the producer perspective than it is from the consumer.
To blame such a nebulous and disaparate group of people for an issue, I'm gonna need to see controls on the shady shit being offered to such a nebulous entity.
Yes, really. Bite me.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
This is also the first time I have the "season pass" so I have all new DLC zones and such in that game. When my buddies get on, I feel obliged to join them in F76, but sad to leave F4.
I'll still be going back to play F76, but currently, it's a chore and more about helping my friends from other games, than Fallout.
I've done the starting quest-line for responders, the village->airport 5 times now.
Only way is voting with your wallet that`s what i do but sadly only a few do that
It's a pretty generic message.