Listen, it's one thing to have an opinion. I, for one, have an opinion (most times) that no one agrees with. You and they don't have to like opinions but that's what makes forums interesting.
However, burying your head in the dirt and saying it's ok when there is actual theft going on... that's a WHOLE different story. This is bait and switch which is akin to Theft. This thread hasn't even focused on the other shenanigans that Bethesda/Fallout76 was involved in. Those shenanigans combined with THESE shenanigans combine for some seriously bad optics.
Calling out people who've been here for 10 years plus and adding Mod's to it doesn't help the situation and doesn't bring meaningful discussion.
Honestly, it'd be better if @MikeB and @SBFord did step in and gave you a time out. I've had timeouts before and it's helped. I haven't seen anything "personal" in their rebuttals (though towards the end some did get a bit pointed).
So now you are starting a petition to get me banned cause my opinion offends you? Is that how this site works? A few of old, bitter vets hangout on some random website giving each others high five and when someone comes in they disagreed with they have a vote and the mods bow down to their vote? Is that how this works?
No where did he start a petition. He is saying it's better to take a step back and think things through and that a break might help with that. In fact, you're the one that tried to call moderators in the first place.
Also, you're more than welcome to respond to my points and sources if you're well versed in laws. I noticed I was skipped over for some reason. There's no reason to worry, I only have book knowledge of them and worked with lawyers regarding this -- I have no proper education beyond it so you can definitely state precedence and contradicting laws that I don't know about.
This isn't an open and shut situation; I welcome such contradictions.
Take your "book knowledge " and reddit copy/paste and go file a lawsuit. Make sure you come back here and let us all know how it went.
I accept your resignation from the debate. Good day to you.
That wasn't a resignation that was a prediction your "book knowledge " and reddit copy/paste will lose in court.
So I accept your resignation from reality. But I will wait eagerly for the results of your lawsuit.
So as to inform you:
When you offer nothing in response to a thoughtful writing that has sources, even when asked to do such, that is a resignation by default (you've every right to say it wasn't thoughtful -- but you didn't even attempt to reciprocate in a similar way, which is the bulk of the problem). Though I do realize the shameful display of our political debates
contradict this in recent years, it is a common thing when being taught
how to properly hold debate. You have nothing to offer but what you likely perceive to be veiled insults thinking you can get to me by implying my knowledge is third handed. But in truth, all information is. It is gleaned from professors, teachers and mentors -- as well as the personal pursuit of knowledge. Where such knowledge is acquired is not in question here. That is a diversion to make yourself feel better that you have nothing meaningful to add.
Though your last remarks has some rather interesting implications. It seems, at least, that you now agree that the law is the law, but that it is useless for a single person to go up against a multi-billion dollar corporation. Ergo it is my assumption that you just want to live life without worrying about things... though haven't quite got to the "I don't give a shit" phase since you've obviously been writing about it. True, you said that the bag is shitty, but this is one of the first times you've yielded such ground.
But I'll say to you what is no doubt a third-sourced meme, which was once an old saying: "You fail at everything 100% of the time when you do nothing."
People smarter than I, law firms specializing in this and a myriad others are converging on this topic. The prospect of a class action lawsuit is there for this very purpose; to give the masses a voice. How it works? Will it work? It is irrelevant. You don't have to care. You don't have to cheer them on. You can call them fools. But someone has to do it, and people dedicate their lives to such. When you do nothing, that is when tyrants rise up.
As Edmund Burke once said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
So yes, gloat when there's a failure of the law. When people were legitimately fooled. When the big guy wins. I seem to recall you say first and foremost something along the lines of "this does nothing for the customer." in your original post.
Post edited by Yaevindusk on
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Listen, it's one thing to have an opinion. I, for one, have an opinion (most times) that no one agrees with. You and they don't have to like opinions but that's what makes forums interesting.
However, burying your head in the dirt and saying it's ok when there is actual theft going on... that's a WHOLE different story. This is bait and switch which is akin to Theft. This thread hasn't even focused on the other shenanigans that Bethesda/Fallout76 was involved in. Those shenanigans combined with THESE shenanigans combine for some seriously bad optics.
Calling out people who've been here for 10 years plus and adding Mod's to it doesn't help the situation and doesn't bring meaningful discussion.
Honestly, it'd be better if @MikeB and @SBFord did step in and gave you a time out. I've had timeouts before and it's helped. I haven't seen anything "personal" in their rebuttals (though towards the end some did get a bit pointed).
So now you are starting a petition to get me banned cause my opinion offends you? Is that how this site works? A few of old, bitter vets hangout on some random website giving each others high five and when someone comes in they disagreed with they have a vote and the mods bow down to their vote? Is that how this works?
No where did he start a petition. He is saying it's better to take a step back and think things through and that a break might help with that. In fact, you're the one that tried to call moderators in the first place.
Also, you're more than welcome to respond to my points and sources if you're well versed in laws. I noticed I was skipped over for some reason. There's no reason to worry, I only have book knowledge of them and worked with lawyers regarding this -- I have no proper education beyond it so you can definitely state precedence and contradicting laws that I don't know about.
This isn't an open and shut situation; I welcome such contradictions.
Take your "book knowledge " and reddit copy/paste and go file a lawsuit. Make sure you come back here and let us all know how it went.
You do know that there is an actual class action lawsuit being developed right? This isn’t some theoretical forum lawyer stuff.
Yeah I know there is. I'm saying it wont win, it will be like one of those mailings you get. Join the class action lawsuit and get your $6.32 . Hey knock yourselves out with that.
European action would probably wring out more as they have done with other companies.
I'd imagine that they have an even bigger case in Europe, where there is a mandatory 30 day returns policy. There is also precedence of them squeezing hundreds of millions from companies through violations of laws.
Depending on the type of violation, it could be charged daily if they don't perform well in court after being taken to it for breaking the law (speaking of EA here). Though that's old law from memory and the exact date period is likely different -- and the territory may be different. Unknown if Belgium has a similar law.
Post edited by Yaevindusk on
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Listen, it's one thing to have an opinion. I, for one, have an opinion (most times) that no one agrees with. You and they don't have to like opinions but that's what makes forums interesting.
However, burying your head in the dirt and saying it's ok when there is actual theft going on... that's a WHOLE different story. This is bait and switch which is akin to Theft. This thread hasn't even focused on the other shenanigans that Bethesda/Fallout76 was involved in. Those shenanigans combined with THESE shenanigans combine for some seriously bad optics.
Calling out people who've been here for 10 years plus and adding Mod's to it doesn't help the situation and doesn't bring meaningful discussion.
Honestly, it'd be better if @MikeB and @SBFord did step in and gave you a time out. I've had timeouts before and it's helped. I haven't seen anything "personal" in their rebuttals (though towards the end some did get a bit pointed).
So now you are starting a petition to get me banned cause my opinion offends you? Is that how this site works? A few of old, bitter vets hangout on some random website giving each others high five and when someone comes in they disagreed with they have a vote and the mods bow down to their vote? Is that how this works?
No where did he start a petition. He is saying it's better to take a step back and think things through and that a break might help with that. In fact, you're the one that tried to call moderators in the first place.
Also, you're more than welcome to respond to my points and sources if you're well versed in laws. I noticed I was skipped over for some reason. There's no reason to worry, I only have book knowledge of them and worked with lawyers regarding this -- I have no proper education beyond it so you can definitely state precedence and contradicting laws that I don't know about.
This isn't an open and shut situation; I welcome such contradictions.
Take your "book knowledge " and reddit copy/paste and go file a lawsuit. Make sure you come back here and let us all know how it went.
You do know that there is an actual class action lawsuit being developed right? This isn’t some theoretical forum lawyer stuff.
Yeah I know there is. I'm saying it wont win, it will be like one of those mailings you get. Join the class action lawsuit and get your $6.32 . Hey knock yourselves out with that.
It's not about $6.32. It's about the amount of money it will cost the company if they lose. Millions and millions of dollars. So the $6.32 doesn't mean much to the individual but 7 or even 8 figure judgments will certainly send a message to Bethesda but also the industry as well.
And it literally costs NOTHING to join the action. So instead of apathy, I'd rather people actually do something to force a change. And by the way, I am one of the people that enjoys the game... but the fact that they sent me a Steelcase with a Cardboard disc as my "physical copy" is utterly insulting and ridiculous.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yea, I was skeptical this video was worth a thread, but it is a poignant example of where the priorities lie with developers and publishers these days.
This is the spit on the Bethesda hand that slapped their CE customers in the face.
I'm genuinely curious what you found funny about the above.
Silly, melodramatic, loony, undue or w/e make your pick, entertaining nonetheless.
Some say SJW term gained pejorative distinction in video game culture, and indeed there seems to be no shortage of them within video games community...
I'm genuinely curious what you found funny about the above.
Silly, melodramatic, loony, undue or w/e make your pick, entertaining nonetheless.
Some say SJW term gained pejorative distinction in video game culture, and indeed there seems to be no shortage of them within video games community...
Well, I thank you for the response and elaboration on such.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
kitarad said: Besides he does not read most of what he puts an lol too. I have literally received an lol immediately after I posted a few paragraph post proving either he is a speed reader or merely decided to lol the post in principle.
Nah, I do read it but most of the time poster manages to say something lolworthy in first 1 or 2 lines so I send the token of appreciation right away.
Sometimes I take the lol back if poster starts to make somewhat sense later down the post but that does not happen very often...
While we should look at how it is now and not in the future when it comes to reviews, it could potentially turn into a good game. Some on here say they are enjoying it. Though they also note shoddy practices and recognize laws, as both of these are well documented regardless of one's personal feelings. Making sure Bethesda doesn't pull something like this again is, perhaps, the most important factor to a lot of people. Especially fans of Bethesda games.
I don't know if I follow the "I just want to make them hurt with their wallet" idea (aside from not buying / pre-ordering in the first place), but I understand the philosophy. Having them be in compliance of the law and show respect towards their customers is of the utmost concern here, in my opinion. This includes many of the things that people have spoke of and documented, and hopefully will mean a better Elder Scrolls VI when it comes out. Some are whispering that they have delayed their mobile game due to making sure it is up to a standard of quality. It will be nice if that's the case, but we can only assume.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
He gives us our lol points. It would be cruel to expect anything else from him. Besides he does not read most of what he puts an lol too. I have literally received an lol immediately after I posted a few paragraph post proving either he is a speed reader or merely decided to lol the post in principle.
I do enjoy free lols.
Though moreso informed discussions I can learn stuff from. It does kind of irk me when people disrespect Weights and Measures, though. Or if I perceive them laughing at others misfortune. But you can only accept people for who they are when it comes to their personalities or if you're diametrically opposed on an issue. The only discussion worth having is one with a lot of precedence and evidence to back you up (for both sides). Otherwise it's just yelling at each other for no reason.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Listen, it's one thing to have an opinion. I, for one, have an opinion (most times) that no one agrees with. You and they don't have to like opinions but that's what makes forums interesting.
However, burying your head in the dirt and saying it's ok when there is actual theft going on... that's a WHOLE different story. This is bait and switch which is akin to Theft. This thread hasn't even focused on the other shenanigans that Bethesda/Fallout76 was involved in. Those shenanigans combined with THESE shenanigans combine for some seriously bad optics.
Calling out people who've been here for 10 years plus and adding Mod's to it doesn't help the situation and doesn't bring meaningful discussion.
Honestly, it'd be better if @MikeB and @SBFord did step in and gave you a time out. I've had timeouts before and it's helped. I haven't seen anything "personal" in their rebuttals (though towards the end some did get a bit pointed).
So now you are starting a petition to get me banned cause my opinion offends you? Is that how this site works? A few of old, bitter vets hangout on some random website giving each others high five and when someone comes in they disagreed with they have a vote and the mods bow down to their vote? Is that how this works?
No one has petitioned me to ban you, but I am making the decision to. You have made your disdain for our community here abundantly clear. Best of luck to you, but please do not return.
I do not relish in other people receiving a comeuppance, as I have been at such a point myself. Though this may be for the best. I'd like to say I was fair toned with my thoughts with him, but he just seemed to be intent in his ways and fairly disrespectful as a whole. It's curious to me how the same person always agreed with him and "LOL'd" everyone else. This happened in every other place he posted, almost immediately after as if he was being followed or knew where he was some how.
But such things are just curious musings and this is a chapter best left behind us. I'll just say I support this action and move on. My regards and good luck on where you post next Itstime.
Post edited by Yaevindusk on
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Listen, it's one thing to have an opinion. I, for one, have an opinion (most times) that no one agrees with. You and they don't have to like opinions but that's what makes forums interesting.
However, burying your head in the dirt and saying it's ok when there is actual theft going on... that's a WHOLE different story. This is bait and switch which is akin to Theft. This thread hasn't even focused on the other shenanigans that Bethesda/Fallout76 was involved in. Those shenanigans combined with THESE shenanigans combine for some seriously bad optics.
Calling out people who've been here for 10 years plus and adding Mod's to it doesn't help the situation and doesn't bring meaningful discussion.
Honestly, it'd be better if @MikeB and @SBFord did step in and gave you a time out. I've had timeouts before and it's helped. I haven't seen anything "personal" in their rebuttals (though towards the end some did get a bit pointed).
So now you are starting a petition to get me banned cause my opinion offends you? Is that how this site works? A few of old, bitter vets hangout on some random website giving each others high five and when someone comes in they disagreed with they have a vote and the mods bow down to their vote? Is that how this works?
No one has petitioned me to ban you, but I am making the decision to. You have made your disdain for our community here abundantly clear. Best of luck to you, but please do not return.
He at least deserved a final post under that screen name... so I made one up. I think it's accurate.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Listen, it's one thing to have an opinion. I, for one, have an opinion (most times) that no one agrees with. You and they don't have to like opinions but that's what makes forums interesting.
However, burying your head in the dirt and saying it's ok when there is actual theft going on... that's a WHOLE different story. This is bait and switch which is akin to Theft. This thread hasn't even focused on the other shenanigans that Bethesda/Fallout76 was involved in. Those shenanigans combined with THESE shenanigans combine for some seriously bad optics.
Calling out people who've been here for 10 years plus and adding Mod's to it doesn't help the situation and doesn't bring meaningful discussion.
Honestly, it'd be better if @MikeB and @SBFord did step in and gave you a time out. I've had timeouts before and it's helped. I haven't seen anything "personal" in their rebuttals (though towards the end some did get a bit pointed).
So now you are starting a petition to get me banned cause my opinion offends you? Is that how this site works? A few of old, bitter vets hangout on some random website giving each others high five and when someone comes in they disagreed with they have a vote and the mods bow down to their vote? Is that how this works?
No one has petitioned me to ban you, but I am making the decision to. You have made your disdain for our community here abundantly clear. Best of luck to you, but please do not return.
He at least deserved a final post under that screen name... so I made one up. I think it's accurate.
Let's not do this. Please get back to the thread discussion.
Let's not do this. Please get back to the thread discussion.
Indeed. Best not to put salt in wounds. It's better for all parties to leave this behind us. While I'm sure it was in good jest, speaking about someone that is gone and is unable to respond may only cause them undue aggravation. It's now our responsibility to not antagonize those who exited so that they may be assured they won't be poked fun of and can just enjoy their life.
On topic:
Bethesda may enjoy specific securities and taxes as an individual in the eyes of the Law... though the public don't oft see such. It's a shame, though, when community managers have to deal with the backlash, as the higher ups just count their money.
I've had a saying and opinion that there is pretty much no difference between a 1950s con man and a modern day CEO when it comes to these things. Save for companies paying them millions to perform the same job.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And it literally costs NOTHING to join the action. So instead of apathy, I'd rather people actually do something to force a change. And by the way, I am one of the people that enjoys the game... but the fact that they sent me a Steelcase with a Cardboard disc as my "physical copy" is utterly insulting and ridiculous.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Some say SJW term gained pejorative distinction in video game culture, and indeed there seems to be no shortage of them within video games community...
Sometimes I take the lol back if poster starts to make somewhat sense later down the post but that does not happen very often...
@ConstantineMerus, I'm going to have to humbly request you update my avatar pursuant to this new revelation.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.