You know the irony here is when it comes down to lootboxes and crowdfunding and some here believe it is up to the consumers' own responsibility you guys want governments to come and project and the consumers cannot really think for themselves because they are getting tricked by the marketing and everything (don't make me to go find your posts and quote them here) - and now it is consumers' responsibility that a game is buggy and they should stop having fun for your crusade.
Make up your mind.
Since when did we determine the bugs here were intentionally included to skim more cash from gamers through manipulation of code they forbid consumers from unpacking and/or using psychological techniques taken from casinos to entice more spending?
You know the irony here is when it comes down to lootboxes and crowdfunding and some here believe it is up to the consumers' own responsibility you guys want governments to come and project and the consumers cannot really think for themselves because they are getting tricked by the marketing and everything (don't make me to go find your posts and quote them here) - and now it is consumers' responsibility that a game is buggy and they should stop having fun for your crusade.
Make up your mind.
One is manipulative techniques by companies to squeeze extra $ from player's wallets and yeah, those kinds of things in any kind of business are usually regulated. The other one is just one form of the ever popular "vote with your wallet" to influence quality.
You do see the difference don't you?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
What I find most irritating in all of this is the amount of vitrol so called gamers continue to spew out both at the game itself and at anyone that enjoys it a little bit. It is a sort of "HOW DARE YOU LIKE THAT" situation and it is laughable.
Don't like the game? Don't play it, but don't jump on the vitrol based band wagon that isn't really seated fully in reality and just parrot negative reviews that are negative to just be negative. Bethesda games have issues at launch and that is almost ALWAYS the case. There are tons of hardware configurations out there and they can only test on so many.
Just when I'm finally about to go to bed, this thread catches me... all your fault, ya varmints!
Failure of a new game can be a good thing. A clear indication of something that doesn't really work. It gives coders something to work on and some experience in what does and doesn't work.
Failure of a -next- game in a big franchise is something different. It often has big money behind it. And if it doesn't make money, then the franchise STOPS getting big money behind it.
We can pretend that the game will then go back to its roots... I REALLY hope that happens, but I doubt it. It just blows my mind that in Fallout 76, the decision was to strip the series of everything that made it great, leave everything that made it mediocre at best, and then sell that at $60 + micro. It was ALWAYS a mediocre shooter.
Who made this decision?
Stripped it of all that made it great? So you needed the npcs to give you quests and the companions and random NPCs jabbering on to make the game great to you? I swear you chuckleheads that spew that line have never once picked up any fallout game or the elder scrolls games because quite frankly what has always made those games fun was exploration and going around finding random side quests and stuff to do be they environmental based on location or random npcs you find as well as just exploring and killing stuff.
It is why people get so side tracked in those games that there is memes about main story content vs sidequests/exploration. If you ran the story in those games they end up incredibly short and shallow experiences that are not fun at all. Mods are another thing that make the game fun and they have not "stripped" the title of mods. Mod support has never been in a bethesda game directly at launch EVER and it is working out the logistics of how to make it work already. They have promised mod support as well as private servers.
What I find most irritating in all of this is the amount of vitrol so called gamers continue to spew out both at the game itself and at anyone that enjoys it a little bit. It is a sort of "HOW DARE YOU LIKE THAT" situation and it is laughable.
Don't like the game? Don't play it, but don't jump on the vitrol based band wagon that isn't really seated fully in reality and just parrot negative reviews that are negative to just be negative. Bethesda games have issues at launch and that is almost ALWAYS the case. There are tons of hardware configurations out there and they can only test on so many.
Sure. But you also can't buy these titles and wonder why Early Access and overall technical quality seems have taken a backseat in so many titles. Your dollars encourage not just the good with a title but the bad too, and you don't get to pick and choose the message your dollars send.
The folks continuing to spend money on, say, Ark, are contributory to the reason Ark devs feel no need to correct the technical issues in the game.
"The sandbox mmo we have all been waiting for" - mmorpg.com
Which also gave it a 7.
Different people, different opinions.
Yes. 7 out of 109 reviews tallied by metacritic gave it a 7 or better. I think we can safely say those 7 are very different opinions indeed.
(Just to put that in perspective 71 out of 133 reviews gave Mass Effect Andromeda 7 or better)
Can I just state that a ton of the crap out there is just repeating the same exact nonsense? A lot of the reviews might as well just be wholesale plagiarism in all honesty. My opinion on reviewers/critics is that to many are jaded and can't really "experience" shit anymore. They put up this front so they appear to have some higher class or the like, but they just end up jumping on the band wagon of either praise or hate whatever gets them more clicks or notice.
Maybe those 7 that gave it a 7 or better are real people that aren't pretentious or jaded individuals and can actually see the game for what it is and enjoy it instead of being hacks anymore? Also I find it laughable that so called fans of the series complain about the game given basically everything about it is fallout.
If you needed the npcs and companions to have fun in fallout 3, new vegas, or 4 then you were playing those games in a manner that is counter intuitive to how most play em.
"Fallout 76 must fail. It must fail commercially. It must fail critically. Bad ideas, and bad executions of bad ideas, must fail. Bethesda needs to learn they can’t get away with peddling broken products and acting with such anti consumer impunity."
All good points taken from that article and indeed it needs to fail because of that. But, it also needs to fail from the paywall aspect that they have currently in game. It's pretty clear that one of the reasons ( if not the main reason ) this game as rushed out was to be a cash cow for them because of the items that you would normally expect to of been found in game can only be purchased via the Atomic shop.This is a serious concern going forward for Bethesda and how it could become a normal aspect for their other titles going forward.
What items are you talking about specifically? Half the items in the shop can be found in game, and the other half are cosmetic, and cheap to purchase. The only item I've seen in game that people tend to buy is the Camouflage Paint for their power armor. That's their big cash cow?
Ohh no don't you know all micro-transactions are evil /s On a serious note if you get achievements done you get given currency for micro-transactions. People need to keep something in mind with them as well. Micro-transactions if you are releasing a steady stream of stuff for it also gives you more money for continued development of the game as it adds more money into things. The atomic shop in fallout 76 is all cosmetic 100% and as you said a good chunk of it is found in world to begin with.
You know the irony here is when it comes down to lootboxes and crowdfunding and some here believe it is up to the consumers' own responsibility you guys want governments to come and project and the consumers cannot really think for themselves because they are getting tricked by the marketing and everything (don't make me to go find your posts and quote them here) - and now it is consumers' responsibility that a game is buggy and they should stop having fun for your crusade.
Make up your mind.
One is manipulative techniques by companies to squeeze extra $ from player's wallets and yeah, those kinds of things in any kind of business are usually regulated. The other one is just one form of the ever popular "vote with your wallet" to influence quality.
You do see the difference don't you?
People have voted with their wallets, you just don't like the results. That happens with every single purchase. Now you'd like those people to get punished for their vote, so they won't cast the same vote ever again, because their fun isn't justified. That's what this article is about, that's what you advocate, and that's what I have a problem with.
That's where the jump from 'people just want to play or buy one for their kids without doing any research about predatory monetization and if there's any "gambling" involved' to 'people shouldn't have fun while playing a game, they should know better' has happened. Maybe those people were also manipulated into having fun? Or maybe people spending on cash-shops know exactly what they are doing, because they also happen to be voting with their wallets. How do you draw these lines?
Apparently I don't see the difference, so gotta help me out here mate.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
@ConstantineMerus I don't agree that we should berate players, but pointing out that supporting this stuff is the reason it continues or gets worse? That's reality. Advising that Bethesda has been enabled by the consumer behavior to release buggy products is a natural extrapolation of that reality.
@ConstantineMerus I don't agree that we should berate players, but pointing out that supporting this stuff is the reason it continues or gets worse? That's reality. Advising that Bethesda has been enabled by the consumer behavior to release buggy products is a natural extrapolation of that reality.
Well it really does matter how you campaign for your cause mate. We can't say consumers are clueless victims who need protection from one thing and simultaneously blame them for another and expect them to know better.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
@ConstantineMerus I don't agree that we should berate players, but pointing out that supporting this stuff is the reason it continues or gets worse? That's reality. Advising that Bethesda has been enabled by the consumer behavior to release buggy products is a natural extrapolation of that reality.
Well it really does matter how you campaign for your cause mate. We can't say consumers are clueless victims who need protection from one thing and simultaneously blame them for another and expect them to know better.
Yes, we can.
You act as if both microtransaction marketing and bugs are presented the same way to consumers. That's baffling.
There were videos of the bugs. There were reviews pointing them out. Remind me again how many lootboxes even show the win chances? I'm sure it was covered in a video by YouTubers and included in game reviews for these games using them, but I can't seem to find where they detail the chances on these sites at the moment. /Sarcasm
Looking at these things as the same is generalizing them both to the point of uselessness.
The idea that we have to look at consumer relations as an all or nothing, one size fits all assessment is hugely counter-productive.
@MadFrenchie I have a migraine, I'll discipline your French ass tomorrow
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
What I find most irritating in all of this is the amount of vitrol so called gamers continue to spew out both at the game itself and at anyone that enjoys it a little bit. It is a sort of "HOW DARE YOU LIKE THAT" situation and it is laughable.
Don't like the game? Don't play it, but don't jump on the vitrol based band wagon that isn't really seated fully in reality and just parrot negative reviews that are negative to just be negative. Bethesda games have issues at launch and that is almost ALWAYS the case. There are tons of hardware configurations out there and they can only test on so many.
I've never touched the game or ever watched gameplay on Youtube.
All I can do is enjoy the popcorn and this one has extra butter
You know the irony here is when it comes down to lootboxes and crowdfunding and some here believe it is up to the consumers' own responsibility you guys want governments to come and project and the consumers cannot really think for themselves because they are getting tricked by the marketing and everything (don't make me to go find your posts and quote them here) - and now it is consumers' responsibility that a game is buggy and they should stop having fun for your crusade.
Make up your mind.
One is manipulative techniques by companies to squeeze extra $ from player's wallets and yeah, those kinds of things in any kind of business are usually regulated. The other one is just one form of the ever popular "vote with your wallet" to influence quality.
You do see the difference don't you?
People have voted with their wallets, you just don't like the results. That happens with every single purchase. Now you'd like those people to get punished for their vote, so they won't cast the same vote ever again, because their fun isn't justified. That's what this article is about, that's what you advocate, and that's what I have a problem with.
That's where the jump from 'people just want to play or buy one for their kids without doing any research about predatory monetization and if there's any "gambling" involved' to 'people shouldn't have fun while playing a game, they should know better' has happened. Maybe those people were also manipulated into having fun? Or maybe people spending on cash-shops know exactly what they are doing, because they also happen to be voting with their wallets. How do you draw these lines?
Apparently I don't see the difference, so gotta help me out here mate.
Trying to make predatory monetization and just plain bad, buggy games the same thing is pretty far out there bud.
I get that you don't like what Pooma had to say about consumers as enablers so you're searching for reasons to ridicule that point of view but this one just does not work.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
"The sandbox mmo we have all been waiting for" - mmorpg.com
Which also gave it a 7.
Different people, different opinions.
Yes. 7 out of 109 reviews tallied by metacritic gave it a 7 or better. I think we can safely say those 7 are very different opinions indeed.
(Just to put that in perspective 71 out of 133 reviews gave Mass Effect Andromeda 7 or better)
Can I just state that a ton of the crap out there is just repeating the same exact nonsense? A lot of the reviews might as well just be wholesale plagiarism in all honesty. My opinion on reviewers/critics is that to many are jaded and can't really "experience" shit anymore. They put up this front so they appear to have some higher class or the like, but they just end up jumping on the band wagon of either praise or hate whatever gets them more clicks or notice.
Maybe those 7 that gave it a 7 or better are real people that aren't pretentious or jaded individuals and can actually see the game for what it is and enjoy it instead of being hacks anymore? Also I find it laughable that so called fans of the series complain about the game given basically everything about it is fallout.
If you needed the npcs and companions to have fun in fallout 3, new vegas, or 4 then you were playing those games in a manner that is counter intuitive to how most play em.
Outliers are outliers statistically no matter how you try to spin it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I think it's sad that people think others need to fail so they can win. I don't subscribe to or respect that position that at all.
Bethesda and their games don't need to fail for me to successfully enjoy gaming. I'm also not going to burn a bridge for what could be an enjoyable game at some later point. What purpose would that serve anyway?
I didn't read his article as a malicious indictment of anyone in particular. FO76 is a poster boy example of the need for the industry at large to recognize its drift towards objectifying its fanbases into dollar signs.
The game seemed, to me, to merely be a springboard for his views on the industry as a whole. Games released in broken states should be shunned for their lack of technical quality, specifically when they come from studios with more than enough resources to avoid it. Nothing about that statement means technically poor games can't be improved to the point buying it isn't shoving a big flashing sign in pubs faces saying "BEND ME OVER FURTHER, SENPAI!"
Technically shoddy games are technically shoddy products. I don't think anyone would find that an amazing or confusing statement. If you really like the curves of the new Mustang, but you know their transmissions go out after 50,000 miles because Ford shit the bed in the engineering department, nothing about the curves means you should ignore the transmission woes.
In fact, if the issue was in fact due to design flaws with Ford, class action lawsuits would likely force Ford to make it right.
MadFrenchie said: Technically shoddy games are technically shoddy products. I don't think anyone would find that an amazing or confusing statement. If you really like the curves of the new Mustang, but you know their transmissions go out after 50,000 miles because Ford shit the bed in the engineering department, nothing about the curves means you should ignore the transmission woes.
In fact, if the issue was in fact due to design flaws with Ford, class action lawsuits would likely force Ford to make it right.
I'm with you here.
Because something is an entertainment product, it shouldn't absolve the maker of their responsibility of supplying a product that works or of what is advertised.
Comments
I don't see the parallel there.
You do see the difference don't you?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Don't like the game? Don't play it, but don't jump on the vitrol based band wagon that isn't really seated fully in reality and just parrot negative reviews that are negative to just be negative. Bethesda games have issues at launch and that is almost ALWAYS the case. There are tons of hardware configurations out there and they can only test on so many.
Stripped it of all that made it great? So you needed the npcs to give you quests and the companions and random NPCs jabbering on to make the game great to you? I swear you chuckleheads that spew that line have never once picked up any fallout game or the elder scrolls games because quite frankly what has always made those games fun was exploration and going around finding random side quests and stuff to do be they environmental based on location or random npcs you find as well as just exploring and killing stuff.
It is why people get so side tracked in those games that there is memes about main story content vs sidequests/exploration. If you ran the story in those games they end up incredibly short and shallow experiences that are not fun at all. Mods are another thing that make the game fun and they have not "stripped" the title of mods. Mod support has never been in a bethesda game directly at launch EVER and it is working out the logistics of how to make it work already. They have promised mod support as well as private servers.
The folks continuing to spend money on, say, Ark, are contributory to the reason Ark devs feel no need to correct the technical issues in the game.
Maybe those 7 that gave it a 7 or better are real people that aren't pretentious or jaded individuals and can actually see the game for what it is and enjoy it instead of being hacks anymore? Also I find it laughable that so called fans of the series complain about the game given basically everything about it is fallout.
If you needed the npcs and companions to have fun in fallout 3, new vegas, or 4 then you were playing those games in a manner that is counter intuitive to how most play em.
That's where the jump from 'people just want to play or buy one for their kids without doing any research about predatory monetization and if there's any "gambling" involved' to 'people shouldn't have fun while playing a game, they should know better' has happened. Maybe those people were also manipulated into having fun? Or maybe people spending on cash-shops know exactly what they are doing, because they also happen to be voting with their wallets. How do you draw these lines?
Apparently I don't see the difference, so gotta help me out here mate.
You act as if both microtransaction marketing and bugs are presented the same way to consumers. That's baffling.
There were videos of the bugs. There were reviews pointing them out. Remind me again how many lootboxes even show the win chances? I'm sure it was covered in a video by YouTubers and included in game reviews for these games using them, but I can't seem to find where they detail the chances on these sites at the moment. /Sarcasm
Looking at these things as the same is generalizing them both to the point of uselessness.
The idea that we have to look at consumer relations as an all or nothing, one size fits all assessment is hugely counter-productive.
All I can do is enjoy the popcorn and this one has extra butter
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I get that you don't like what Pooma had to say about consumers as enablers so you're searching for reasons to ridicule that point of view but this one just does not work.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The game seemed, to me, to merely be a springboard for his views on the industry as a whole. Games released in broken states should be shunned for their lack of technical quality, specifically when they come from studios with more than enough resources to avoid it. Nothing about that statement means technically poor games can't be improved to the point buying it isn't shoving a big flashing sign in pubs faces saying "BEND ME OVER FURTHER, SENPAI!"
Technically shoddy games are technically shoddy products. I don't think anyone would find that an amazing or confusing statement. If you really like the curves of the new Mustang, but you know their transmissions go out after 50,000 miles because Ford shit the bed in the engineering department, nothing about the curves means you should ignore the transmission woes.
In fact, if the issue was in fact due to design flaws with Ford, class action lawsuits would likely force Ford to make it right.
Because something is an entertainment product, it shouldn't absolve the maker of their responsibility of supplying a product that works or of what is advertised.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee