Isn't NDA violation a crime? So for doing a crime he has lost some games. I say he got off easy. Respect the freaking NDA. People think since it's digital and it's about a game so it's alright to break it. Grow the hell up.
That aside, there are quite a few downsides to put your collection into a digital library. You break the rules, you'd lose your account. That's just one of them. However, what's the alternative? They ship you physical discs? That's more like a reward than a punishment. Or maybe they shouldn't ban anyone who has paid them a cent no matter what they do?
I read a lot of posts about consumers right. Which is cool, I don't have anything against that. But I am not sure what would be the solution here. Of course I am not talking about banning people for no reason or such. But when someone deserves a ban, what should a company be doing?
It's civil not a crime and I believe the plaintiff couldn't really do much unless they could prove damages
Isn't NDA violation a crime? So for doing a crime he has lost some games. I say he got off easy. Respect the freaking NDA. People think since it's digital and it's about a game so it's alright to break it. Grow the hell up.
That aside, there are quite a few downsides to put your collection into a digital library. You break the rules, you'd lose your account. That's just one of them. However, what's the alternative? They ship you physical discs? That's more like a reward than a punishment. Or maybe they shouldn't ban anyone who has paid them a cent no matter what they do?
I read a lot of posts about consumers right. Which is cool, I don't have anything against that. But I am not sure what would be the solution here. Of course I am not talking about banning people for no reason or such. But when someone deserves a ban, what should a company be doing?
It's civil not a crime and I believe the plaintiff couldn't really do much unless they could prove damages
Yeah my bad. But it is still breach of contract and one can sue for damages. My point is when someone has done something clearly wrong, companies shouldn't be able to terminate their account? That will be fun to manage.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Just wait till Steam does this to someone and they lose hundreds of games. I know, I know.. "Steam would never do that! They are pure angels!" Continue thinking that, I'll continue buying from other places to keep all my eggs out of one basket.
I was thinking about steam to be honest, and some of the games you can get appear to be fully yours, as in I can put them on my computer and play them without access to steam at all (Example: Darkest Dungeon can be played Offline)
Equally so, other games flat out say that to play this game requires that you have an active Steam account and internet service.
Also, with Steam, when you make a purchase, they say the game was added to your library, and then to play the game you need to download it from the steam library and install it on your system.
Since your Library is linked to your account, so they can deny you access to your library, because that is part of their service, just like a phone company can cancel your service and all related provisions.
Equally so, I wager that even if Steam did deny access to an accounts Library, this does not mean that user lost any access to the games they have directly downloaded.
I know I have use Steam to download some MMO's.. by my ability to play that MMO has no relation to my steam account.
So it can be a murky.
a phone company can stop to give the service, (the line), but they can't take your phone from you, with is what is happening here
and btw after you install the game, be it origin and steam, you don't need to be logued on your account or even have internet access to play then, you can play, save for MMO because you net to have access to servers, so the whole lease lose even more footing here
That really depends on the contract you have with the phone provider. If the phone was being provided as part of the contract, and you default the contract, they have every right to demand the phone or it's full value returned to them.
Also with Steam, some games do in fact require that you have at least some from of validation from steam to ensure that the game is a legally purchased copy before it launches.
Also with some software, you need to be careful, as you might only be buying a Users Licence, IE: The right to use the software, this is not the same as owning the game as a whole.
Much in the same way you can buy a song, but you only purchased the copy of the song, you do not own any rights to the song itself.
Digital mediums like that are a bit more tricky then buying say a Steak knife.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
The EA Services are licensed to you, not sold. EA grants you a personal, limited, non-transferable, revocable and non-exclusive license to use the EA Services to which you have access for your non-commercial use, subject to your compliance with this Agreement. You may not access, copy, modify or distribute any EA Service, Content or Entitlements (as those terms are defined below), unless expressly authorized by EA or permitted by law. You may not reverse engineer or attempt to extract or otherwise use source code or other data from EA Services, unless expressly authorized by EA or permitted by law. EA or its licensors own and reserve all other rights, including all right, title and interest in the EA Services and associated intellectual property rights.
So if read fine print then see you never bought the game. I have seen more than a few franchise stores shut down because did not uphold what the mother company wanted from their brand. It doesn't matter to me if this is PR or someone who lost a huge library. It was stated to not share and tried to do it. Maybe EA had people waiting on Twitch searching for people to do this. Maybe it is all a PR stunt. All I know is that I don't own any of my video games.
The EA Services are licensed to you, not sold. EA grants you a personal, limited, non-transferable, revocable and non-exclusive license to use the EA Services to which you have access for your non-commercial use, subject to your compliance with this Agreement. You may not access, copy, modify or distribute any EA Service, Content or Entitlements (as those terms are defined below), unless expressly authorized by EA or permitted by law. You may not reverse engineer or attempt to extract or otherwise use source code or other data from EA Services, unless expressly authorized by EA or permitted by law. EA or its licensors own and reserve all other rights, including all right, title and interest in the EA Services and associated intellectual property rights.
So if read fine print then see you never bought the game. I have seen more than a few franchise stores shut down because did not uphold what the mother company wanted from their brand. It doesn't matter to me if this is PR or someone who lost a huge library. It was stated to not share and tried to do it. Maybe EA had people waiting on Twitch searching for people to do this. Maybe it is all a PR stunt. All I know is that I don't own any of my video games.
If the licensing terms are on the outside of the box it's all good. If the terms are on the inside of the box and only revealed after I make the purchase, it's a problem.
If it was his real account then i think the had it coming. Did he think he would make millions of views and subscribers by breaking an NDA?
On the other hand, this shows how easily anyone can lose their digital library. Another reason for me not to care about digital games. Too bad I don't have choices on PC anymore.
SidAlpha did a good take on this and i have to agree.
There is nothing on that account pointing to it being anything but a throw-away account used to sign up for the beta... That would in turn make the breach pre-meditated and as such signed under false pretense (i think the legal term is... i am no lawyer nor do i have a legal degree) and if so... well nothing of value was lost. (and to be fair nothing of value was really lost for EA either)
But, maybe it should act as a warning to other nubbins on the web... If you are going to blatantly break a NDA for some views and clicks... Don´t use your main account or you be dunn forked son. .
Definitely EA has the right to come down hard because the streamer signed the NDA. Not their fault if they didn't read it all. They hit the checkmark box saying they did.
What they do with the Origin account long term is a different issue. Temporary Ban sounds reasonable, Permanent Ban (especially if other games in there) might be stepping over the line imo.
In the EU the "Supreme Court" was asked the question about ownership by multiple large companies - they have "bought" lots of expensive software. The ruling was they own the software; a side result of which is that "we" own the games - in the "EU" at least.
Now since then "gaming as a service" - renting essentially - is something that has become more of a thing and brings with it different questions.
Just want to address this.
In America, a similar case was also brought up, and as it turns out in America at least, the EULA stands, and no, the consumer does not own the software to do whatever they want with, they are only buying a non-transferable licence to use it.
This is why some companies now, like Autodesk for example, which was involved in both cases, no longer sells the same suite to the EU, they sell older outdated products to the EU and their most recently developed software is sold only in nations that uphold their EULA right, like America.
Just for academia on that one.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
SidAlpha on Youtube did a pretty good video on this where he looked into the issue a little. As far as he could gather, this streamer did NOT have any Origin Games in this account's library. I have included the link to the video where he looks into this claim.
When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ? You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours. You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours
What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.
Still not news worthy ?
Exactly. Now if they gave him the games to review, that's one thing. But IMO, they take away a game that he paid for, that's STEALING or destruction of property.
This is one of the bigger things that concerns me with modern games. Seems like more and more they're adding at least some tiny superficial element to every game they make to justify requiring an online connection. Diablo 3 being a notable example. I don't think I ever played that game multiplayer, but they snuck in the cash auction so that you have to be online at all times, whether you actually ever play with another soul in that game or not.
And now here's EA effectively walking into your house and smashing all your disks? Naw... that ain't right.
SidAlpha on Youtube did a pretty good video on this where he looked into the issue a little. As far as he could gather, this streamer did NOT have any Origin Games in this account's library. I have included the link to the video where he looks into this claim.
Good find.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ? You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours. You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours
What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.
Still not news worthy ?
Lease a car... and try to see how much you own it.
Show me where it say the game you bought is Just a Lease.. Now if i went to a store and lease a game to play, that would be a different story..Oh and the pricing would be Major Difference. $5 to lease a game for a week and $80 to buy...That game i bought for $80 belongs to me!
Wouldnt matter the analogy is incorrect. anthem is the product the lease would be with not the other titles in the library. A more accurate comparison would be you lease 2 cars from ford break the lease with car A and they then break the contract and lease and repossess car B as well. That is against the law.
Just to clear things up. A lease is provided though a Bank, or loan provider.
If you have the lease for both cars though the same provider, and you break contract, the provider can opt, at their discretion depending on the severity of the situation, to cancel any and all other accounts you have with them, like checking accounts, credit cards, and also including the lease on the other car, and reposes both cars.
Also keep in mind that the NDA was signed with EA & Bioware, as a company, as a whole, not just with Anthem. It was regarding Anthem, but signed with EA & Bioware, this it can affect any and all other dealings you have with, this included any other services they may provide you.
Just saying..
I think you are either incorrect or just trying to be difficult by suggesting I bought both cars on one lease for both.... I was saying that when you make two separate contracts for different products through the same company they cannot terminate any an all contracts because they are not happy about xyz with one of the contracts you have. Each contract is a separate business agreement. Well let me be more clear, actually they can do w/e they want but it would be against the law and they would be putting themselves at risk of the legal actions that might follow, which really was my point. Companies often do not follow the law, and they often do not follow the law knowingly. Its a risk assessment choosing to face potential legal action and if the risk is low they will do w/e the hell they want even if its against the law.
Also its important for people like you to understand that companies like Bioware are not legally able to apply law, which was another of my points. So while it might be true the NDA was signed between the person and bioware the actual"company" Bioware itself has ZERO and I MEAN ZERO prerogative to decide guilt and to impose punishments under our laws. That is what the courts do in most western countries. Let me repeat this again as its critical no company in for example the USA has ANY LEGAL AUTHORITY to either convict a public person of guilt or to incur any type of punishment upon an individual for civil/state or federal laws they believe were broken.
Here's something to think about, how did they shut him down before he got passed the welcome screen?
Was someone able to contact EA/Bioware within 1 degree of separation from the authority to immediately do something like that, or was it a software based response...
Perhaps the alpha client was programmed to recognize Twitch and other similar programs running in the background? A similar kerfuffle happened with Destiny 2 allegedly banning players who ran basic 3rd party programs like Discord.
That's why stories like this are fishy no matter how it's told. Discord and other programs like it have components that allow them to act as "overlays" while the client is running.
It's like:
"Hey [insert game], its me Discord, can I put my UI on top of yours while you're running?" "Yes, you can you're cool" or "No, I'm shutting down I don't trust you"
The story being told seems more like:
"Hey, it's me [insert game], what's that you're doing on YOUR machine? Ahhh I see, you're using that in the background and you're using that too? OOOOOH I'M TELLING EVERYTHING! Oh and f#$% all the other games you bought too"
The alleged immediacy of account level action is concerning.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Also (separate response needed), this is why game developers are classifying themselves as SaaS (software as a service) so they have more legal leverage and control on the ownership. There's nothing wrong with that, but they ARE double dipping.
If you're a software as a service the whole "retail box price" thing comes into question. SaaS should be a subscription or F2P (with however they choose to monetize). A setup fee equal to a one month payment makes sense, but that retail $59.99 - $69.99 needs to be pushed back on. What are we as consumers paying for? There's no box and even if there is, we don't own what's in it and can be arbitrarily locked out of what was paid for.
It's something for all gamers to ponder about because the "as a service" shift is a upon us.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Even buying a car is kind of like getting a MMO. To use your car legally, you still have to pay a subscription (registration, car insurance), and still get hit with micro transactions in the form of gas and maintenance.
Sure you still have the car, but would get in trouble a lot easier (if you didn't pay your registration, car insurance) than if you bought a MMO, did a bit of work and used it on a private server. Hell, some even allow it such as EQ with p99.
Got me thinking even more how so many places charge to allow you to park your car. Being hit with micro transactions left and right!
Even buying a car is kind of like getting a MMO. To use your car legally, you still have to pay a subscription (registration, car insurance), and still get hit with micro transactions in the form of gas and maintenance.
Sure you still have the car, but would get in trouble a lot easier (if you didn't pay your registration, car insurance) than if you bought a MMO, did a bit of work and used it on a private server. Hell, some even allow it such as EQ with p99.
Got me thinking even more how so many places charge to allow you to park your car. Being hit with micro transactions left and right!
Wait until "they" try charging you by the mile for using your car.
Or my favorite... now that they force you to use a toll tag/transponder. They simply do the math between tolls and send you a ticket in the mail for speeding.
It's coming...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
When you buy something you are legal owner of it. Right ? You buy a car. Its yours. You buy phone. Its yours. You buy a game on Origin ... well its not really yours
What would you say if tommorow Apple remotely bricked your new iPhone 8 , because you were in closed beta of new iTunes, and posted online that its a crap.
Still not news worthy ?
Lease a car... and try to see how much you own it.
Show me where it say the game you bought is Just a Lease.. Now if i went to a store and lease a game to play, that would be a different story..Oh and the pricing would be Major Difference. $5 to lease a game for a week and $80 to buy...That game i bought for $80 belongs to me!
Wouldnt matter the analogy is incorrect. anthem is the product the lease would be with not the other titles in the library. A more accurate comparison would be you lease 2 cars from ford break the lease with car A and they then break the contract and lease and repossess car B as well. That is against the law.
Just to clear things up. A lease is provided though a Bank, or loan provider.
If you have the lease for both cars though the same provider, and you break contract, the provider can opt, at their discretion depending on the severity of the situation, to cancel any and all other accounts you have with them, like checking accounts, credit cards, and also including the lease on the other car, and reposes both cars.
Also keep in mind that the NDA was signed with EA & Bioware, as a company, as a whole, not just with Anthem. It was regarding Anthem, but signed with EA & Bioware, this it can affect any and all other dealings you have with, this included any other services they may provide you.
Just saying..
I think you are either incorrect or just trying to be difficult by suggesting I bought both cars on one lease for both.... I was saying that when you make two separate contracts for different products through the same company they cannot terminate any an all contracts because they are not happy about xyz with one of the contracts you have.
Oh No No No.. Make no mistake.. YES they can.
Depending on the severity of the breech on conduct, a private institution can flat out terminate any and ALL dealings they have with you, and refuse to engage in any future dealings with you.
If you think they can't protect themselves in this manner, you are flat out wrong.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Even buying a car is kind of like getting a MMO. To use your car legally, you still have to pay a subscription (registration, car insurance), and still get hit with micro transactions in the form of gas and maintenance.
Sure you still have the car, but would get in trouble a lot easier (if you didn't pay your registration, car insurance) than if you bought a MMO, did a bit of work and used it on a private server. Hell, some even allow it such as EQ with p99.
Got me thinking even more how so many places charge to allow you to park your car. Being hit with micro transactions left and right!
Wait until "they" try charging you by the mile for using your car.
Or my favorite... now that they force you to use a toll tag/transponder. They simply do the math between tolls and send you a ticket in the mail for speeding.
It's coming...
If it makes you feel any better, some states do in fact tax you for millage on your car.. is your life complete now?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Also with Steam, some games do in fact require that you have at least some from of validation from steam to ensure that the game is a legally purchased copy before it launches.
Also with some software, you need to be careful, as you might only be buying a Users Licence, IE: The right to use the software, this is not the same as owning the game as a whole.
Much in the same way you can buy a song, but you only purchased the copy of the song, you do not own any rights to the song itself.
Digital mediums like that are a bit more tricky then buying say a Steak knife.
2. License
The EA Services are licensed to you, not sold. EA grants you a personal, limited, non-transferable, revocable and non-exclusive license to use the EA Services to which you have access for your non-commercial use, subject to your compliance with this Agreement. You may not access, copy, modify or distribute any EA Service, Content or Entitlements (as those terms are defined below), unless expressly authorized by EA or permitted by law. You may not reverse engineer or attempt to extract or otherwise use source code or other data from EA Services, unless expressly authorized by EA or permitted by law. EA or its licensors own and reserve all other rights, including all right, title and interest in the EA Services and associated intellectual property rights.
So if read fine print then see you never bought the game. I have seen more than a few franchise stores shut down because did not uphold what the mother company wanted from their brand. It doesn't matter to me if this is PR or someone who lost a huge library. It was stated to not share and tried to do it. Maybe EA had people waiting on Twitch searching for people to do this. Maybe it is all a PR stunt. All I know is that I don't own any of my video games.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
On the other hand, this shows how easily anyone can lose their digital library. Another reason for me not to care about digital games. Too bad I don't have choices on PC anymore.
There is nothing on that account pointing to it being anything but a throw-away account used to sign up for the beta... That would in turn make the breach pre-meditated and as such signed under false pretense (i think the legal term is... i am no lawyer nor do i have a legal degree) and if so... well nothing of value was lost. (and to be fair nothing of value was really lost for EA either)
But, maybe it should act as a warning to other nubbins on the web... If you are going to blatantly break a NDA for some views and clicks... Don´t use your main account or you be dunn forked son. .
This have been a good conversation
What they do with the Origin account long term is a different issue. Temporary Ban sounds reasonable, Permanent Ban (especially if other games in there) might be stepping over the line imo.
In America, a similar case was also brought up, and as it turns out in America at least, the EULA stands, and no, the consumer does not own the software to do whatever they want with, they are only buying a non-transferable licence to use it.
This is why some companies now, like Autodesk for example, which was involved in both cases, no longer sells the same suite to the EU, they sell older outdated products to the EU and their most recently developed software is sold only in nations that uphold their EULA right, like America.
Just for academia on that one.
Exactly. Now if they gave him the games to review, that's one thing. But IMO, they take away a game that he paid for, that's STEALING or destruction of property.
This is one of the bigger things that concerns me with modern games. Seems like more and more they're adding at least some tiny superficial element to every game they make to justify requiring an online connection. Diablo 3 being a notable example. I don't think I ever played that game multiplayer, but they snuck in the cash auction so that you have to be online at all times, whether you actually ever play with another soul in that game or not.
And now here's EA effectively walking into your house and smashing all your disks? Naw... that ain't right.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's like:
"Hey [insert game], its me Discord, can I put my UI on top of yours while you're running?"
"Yes, you can you're cool" or "No, I'm shutting down I don't trust you"
The story being told seems more like:
"Hey, it's me [insert game], what's that you're doing on YOUR machine? Ahhh I see, you're using that in the background and you're using that too? OOOOOH I'M TELLING EVERYTHING! Oh and f#$% all the other games you bought too"
The alleged immediacy of account level action is concerning.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If you're a software as a service the whole "retail box price" thing comes into question. SaaS should be a subscription or F2P (with however they choose to monetize). A setup fee equal to a one month payment makes sense, but that retail $59.99 - $69.99 needs to be pushed back on. What are we as consumers paying for? There's no box and even if there is, we don't own what's in it and can be arbitrarily locked out of what was paid for.
It's something for all gamers to ponder about because the "as a service" shift is a upon us.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Even buying a car is kind of like getting a MMO. To use your car legally, you still have to pay a subscription (registration, car insurance), and still get hit with micro transactions in the form of gas and maintenance.
Sure you still have the car, but would get in trouble a lot easier (if you didn't pay your registration, car insurance) than if you bought a MMO, did a bit of work and used it on a private server. Hell, some even allow it such as EQ with p99.
Got me thinking even more how so many places charge to allow you to park your car. Being hit with micro transactions left and right!
Or my favorite... now that they force you to use a toll tag/transponder. They simply do the math between tolls and send you a ticket in the mail for speeding.
It's coming...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Depending on the severity of the breech on conduct, a private institution can flat out terminate any and ALL dealings they have with you, and refuse to engage in any future dealings with you.
If you think they can't protect themselves in this manner, you are flat out wrong.