But to speak more directly to your example, there was a time when you weren't charged for online play on consoles because there was no online play on consoles.
Original XBox and PS2 had online play with no costs. PS3 had no online costs, of course, but they eventually joined Microsoft's example with the PS4. And all the Nintendo ones had no online costs until the.. Wii U.. I think? So, what happened is.. one of them did it, eventually all the others wanted a slice of that pie.
The rest of your reply I don't disagree with. Totally makes sense. But I said each time, I don't really think it will happen. I think it's just as unlikely as you do.
I've seen sites saying that in the UK it's priced at £41.99 on Epic.. but it isn't now.. it's £49.99 just like it was on Steam. Were they just undercutting Steam until Steam stopped selling it? News sites might have been wrong. No idea if they've changed the price throughout the day.
Either way, this price difference for you lot doesn't extend to everyone.. which is kind of messed up.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
I have too many launchers and too many stores on my desktop now. While I like competition, this is getting crazy. Wonder what will happen as these stores start folding and your games that you purchase there become unreachable?
lucky me, as UE developer i got the epic store running anyway
start doing your own games! epic installed, prob solved. :P
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Today, Valve posted a notice to the Metro Exodus Steam page. “We think the decision to remove the game is unfair to Steam customers, especially after a long pre-sale period,” the company wrote. “We apologize to Steam customers that were expecting it to be available for sale through the February 15th release date, but we were only recently informed of the decision and given limited time to let everyone know.”
Steam has had a monopoly on this for too long so that needs to change and hopefully for us the gamer,we see some competition.So far the competition seems to only affect the businesses as we are not seeing any sort of value coming our way...yet.
WE should also realize that Steam/Valve does not care even .001% about your or me or any customer,all they care about is Valve.Valve USED to have a greenlight system,not that is was done well or all that meaningful but at least not every crap game was making it onto Steam.Now? roflmao,every piece of trash game on the planet is on Steam,they have ZERO morals,credibility or care about the quality of the industry,all games mean to them is the more they can sell the more money they make.
Their refund policy as is Epic's is only the absolute bare minimum by law thanks to the European union and Aussies and NZ gets an even better deal.Point being Valve don't give a crap about us ,so to make a statement like "it is unfair to Steam users" is rubbish.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Today, Valve posted a notice to the Metro Exodus Steam page. “We think the decision to remove the game is unfair to Steam customers, especially after a long pre-sale period,” the company wrote. “We apologize to Steam customers that were expecting it to be available for sale through the February 15th release date, but we were only recently informed of the decision and given limited time to let everyone know.”
Steam has had a monopoly on this for too long so that needs to change and hopefully for us the gamer,we see some competition.So far the competition seems to only affect the businesses as we are not seeing any sort of value coming our way...yet.
WE should also realize that Steam/Valve does not care even .001% about your or me or any customer,all they care about is Valve.Valve USED to have a greenlight system,not that is was done well or all that meaningful but at least not every crap game was making it onto Steam.Now? roflmao,every piece of trash game on the planet is on Steam,they have ZERO morals,credibility or care about the quality of the industry,all games mean to them is the more they can sell the more money they make.
Their refund policy as is Epic's is only the absolute bare minimum by law thanks to the European union and Aussies and NZ gets an even better deal.Point being Valve don't give a crap about us ,so to make a statement like "it is unfair to Steam users" is rubbish.
Well, Wiz (my favourite poster on this site), I had this new Metro game on my Steam wishlist for a long time and was very much looking forward to purchasing it on Wednesday, on Steam. Now, I can't.
I feel, personally, that something I was told I could have, on Steam, has been taken away from me.
Despite my previous posts on this thread about how I will play this game now, I am an achievement hunter.. I find I get more out my purchases that way.. it's not about bragging rights or anything, I know they are superficial and meaningless really. I just like having clearly presented goals in front of me, I find it fun. I do that achievement hunting on Steam. Therefore, I would have liked to have had this game in my Steam library.
Is it unfair that I was planning to buy something, on the platform that I wanted, and now I can't? I feel it is. So, I'm a Steam user and I feel it was unfair.. their statement is 100% accurate.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
I agree, I am not buying the game because it's on Epic Games store, and not buying it anyways because it has "Denuvo" I wonder if titles that use Denuvo will be required to announce their DRM on "Epic Games" store that warns consumers that it has Denuvo anyways.
Denuvo heavily causes performance impacts for those who run i7 / i9 possibly AMD Multi-Core / Thhread cpu's and are running 2 or more games at once, Denuvo basically drains resources because of it "VM Code, Anti-Tamper Checks" and thus draws resources away from other games or tasks that need them.
Right now I am guessing Epic Games maybe under a DDOS attack anyways I tried to get on and Google it apparently it's down to everyone, and on the day they announce partnerships and Metro on Epic Only !
And Valve is right it's totally unfair, I would rathher pay 30% more to buy the game on Steam, than Epic Games store, because Epic Games launcher has a bug that sometimes but rarely eats up a huge amount of CPU resources in the background and has to be manually closed because whatever you are running starts lagging really hard.
So for now Metro = No Buy, I will wait and see if the game may go Free 2 Play in the future but beyond that Denuvo + Epic Games Store for now is a huge no. Consumers should have choice on where they get their games.
Consumers should have choice on where they get their games.
Yeah, platforms other then just Steam would be nice
I don't mind it being on Epic, or other Platforms, I just don't want to buy it from EPIC due to the performance impact caused by the launcher randomly at times I can't leave it running because out of nowhere my CPU spikes heavily and it shows Epic Games Launcher as eating 95% of my CPU usage without a reason.
A lot of game studios have been using Steam for exposure and then removing the game at the last moment. If I were Valve I'd deal with that right away.
I'm sure Epic/Tencent's main move is to try and gain industry dominance, but I think they also have a secondary motivation to keep games locked into Windows. Valve is moving away from Windows lockin while Epic/Tencent wants to embrace it. They just don't want Microsoft locking it down and interfering with their plan.
What I find strange is Microsoft and the other 30%'ers just standing by and watching it happen. I think Microsoft wouldn't mind watching Valve get its back broken, but I think that will leave them weaker as a game publisher. Tencent has already sold gamers on the idea that the platform that gave them a voice is now bad because studios are "victims". Epic/Tencent is playing both Microsoft and Valve.
Indie gaming, esp. on PC, wouldn't be nearly as prevalent and available if it wasn't for Steam. Before Steam, developers had to sell physical copies of their games in brick and mortar stores where they got far, far less than 70%. A lot of these developers crying foul today wouldn't even exist without Steam.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
A lot of game studios have been using Steam for exposure and then removing the game at the last moment. If I were Valve I'd deal with that right away.
I'm sure Epic/Tencent's main move is to try and gain industry dominance, but I think they also have a secondary motivation to keep games locked into Windows. Valve is moving away from Windows lockin while Epic/Tencent wants to embrace it. They just don't want Microsoft locking it down and interfering with their plan.
What I find strange is Microsoft and the other 30%'ers just standing by and watching it happen. I think Microsoft wouldn't mind watching Valve get its back broken, but I think that will leave them weaker as a game publisher. Tencent has already sold gamers on the idea that the platform that gave them a voice is now bad because studios are "victims". Epic/Tencent is playing both Microsoft and Valve.
Indie gaming, esp. on PC, wouldn't be nearly as prevalent and available if it wasn't for Steam. Before Steam, developers had to sell physical copies of their games in brick and mortar stores where they got far, far less than 70%. A lot of these developers crying foul today wouldn't even exist without Steam.
Let's not confuse doing well in a market with having created the market in the first place. Steam didn't invent the Internet, and people downloaded plenty of games and paid for them online before Steam existed. If Steam had never existed, then it's probable that one or more other game selling sites would be a lot more popular. It's not at all clear that gamers or indie developers would be meaningfully worse off if they had to go through some other portal instead of Steam.
As a market matures and distributing games online becomes easier than it used to be, why does the publisher take need to remain so high? One would hope that competition would bring that down. Even if Steam were to greatly reduce its 30% cut of sales and remain the dominant publisher of PC games, that would still be tremendous progress.
For me I hate different launchers. Most of them want to start with your PC and I hate having to run extra stuff. Sure you can disable them, but its an extra unneeded step. I mean you have blizzard, uplay, origin, epic, steam etc etc When does it end?
I don't understand this argument about too many services. I have orgin, Uplay, Epic, and Steam and its easy to jump from game to the another.
I don't like my personal or payment information spread across multiple services. I don't even like that information being shared with Steam. I'm also a Steam user with the vast majority of my friends using Steam. It's how we keep in touch, communicate online, it's where we buy and play games together.
If you feel it isn't a hassle to have multiple launchers, that's your business. I don't feel the same way, because it adds stress unnecessarily to the amount of accounts, user names and passwords, risks, ease of communication and access of my purchases.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Remember when every MMO had it's own patcher/launcher?
How is this case of "too many storefronts" a whole lot different than that?
I'm not buying this kind of opinion.
It's like.. we all do our weekly food shopping, right? If we had to get bread from one store, fruit from a different store, milk from another, canned goods and cereal from another, frozen food from a different one, meat from another, soda from another, wine from another, etc. etc.
That's crazy, right? No one would do that unless they had no other option; they can't afford to shop at just one place so they need to grab all the bargains or none of the other places sold cereal so you had to get them from the cereal store.
A launcher required to patch a game is not a shopping platform. Having the things you want to buy spread out is like going back to the dark ages. It's redundant, time consuming, stressful, illogical, impractical... we've evolved past this kind of thing in developed countries.
No, we developed things like supermarket chains. Here's the difference though, all products are available at any of the supermarket chains. One of them doesn't exclusively sell cereal when the others can't. No, you pick your favourite supermarket and that's where you tend to buy all your food. Doesn't matter if Tescos is selling the cereal you want a bit cheaper than Morisson's, you like to shop at Morrison's.
(These are UK supermarkets btw)
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Remember when every MMO had it's own patcher/launcher?
How is this case of "too many storefronts" a whole lot different than that?
I'm not buying this kind of opinion.
It's like.. we all do our weekly food shopping, right? If we had to get bread from one store, fruit from a different store, milk from another, canned goods and cereal from another, frozen food from a different one, meat from another, soda from another, wine from another, etc. etc.
That analogy makes no sense. Its more like, we have one grocery store (PC) and people claim that one aisle (Steam) is better then another aisle (Epic Store) for one reason or another.
Remember when every MMO had it's own patcher/launcher?
How is this case of "too many storefronts" a whole lot different than that?
I'm not buying this kind of opinion.
It's like.. we all do our weekly food shopping, right? If we had to get bread from one store, fruit from a different store, milk from another, canned goods and cereal from another, frozen food from a different one, meat from another, soda from another, wine from another, etc. etc.
That analogy makes no sense. Its more like, we have one grocery store (PC) and people claim that one aisle (Steam) is better then another aisle (Epic Store) for one reason or another.
That argument works for consoles though!
Digital platforms on PC that sell games are different shops, literally. The analogy is fine.
We aren't buying games from 'PC' are we..?
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Today, Valve posted a notice to the Metro Exodus Steam page. “We think the decision to remove the game is unfair to Steam customers, especially after a long pre-sale period,” the company wrote. “We apologize to Steam customers that were expecting it to be available for sale through the February 15th release date, but we were only recently informed of the decision and given limited time to let everyone know.”
Steam has had a monopoly on this for too long so that needs to change and hopefully for us the gamer,we see some competition.So far the competition seems to only affect the businesses as we are not seeing any sort of value coming our way...yet.
WE should also realize that Steam/Valve does not care even .001% about your or me or any customer,all they care about is Valve.Valve USED to have a greenlight system,not that is was done well or all that meaningful but at least not every crap game was making it onto Steam.Now? roflmao,every piece of trash game on the planet is on Steam,they have ZERO morals,credibility or care about the quality of the industry,all games mean to them is the more they can sell the more money they make.
Their refund policy as is Epic's is only the absolute bare minimum by law thanks to the European union and Aussies and NZ gets an even better deal.Point being Valve don't give a crap about us ,so to make a statement like "it is unfair to Steam users" is rubbish.
True Steam have a monopoly, now if we can only get that to work with Windows how much monopoly hold they have. Epic is doing won't be good for gamer only going to do is add more game luncher for the gamer. When companies start seeing if they can get dev to come to there store first by money or by a deal. Then this is going drive a lot of the pc gamers to console don't have to worry about so many luncher and passwords to play their games.
Remember when every MMO had it's own patcher/launcher?
How is this case of "too many storefronts" a whole lot different than that?
I'm not buying this kind of opinion.
It's like.. we all do our weekly food shopping, right? If we had to get bread from one store, fruit from a different store, milk from another, canned goods and cereal from another, frozen food from a different one, meat from another, soda from another, wine from another, etc. etc.
That analogy makes no sense. Its more like, we have one grocery store (PC) and people claim that one aisle (Steam) is better then another aisle (Epic Store) for one reason or another.
That argument works for consoles though!
Digital platforms on PC that sell games are different shops, literally. The analogy is fine.
We aren't buying games from 'PC' are we..?
You might be a little confused here. This is why that analogy still made no sense even when I applied the same logic. Basically what I am saying is that your analogy is not correct. You are trying to compare it as if we are doing some extra legwork to get our games on a different platform, when we are really not. We have to setup accounts on both platforms (takes similar / same amount of time) and then the rest you can do in the same time; hell, at the same time if you want. It is not like we are going to physical stores, we are clicking an icon that is likely half an inch away or less.
This is absolutely the same as when every MMO had it's own launcher. The key difference here is that there is multiple games on that launcher. It is not like you have 30 different launchers, you have maybe 5 at the most. Back in the day we had every game on different launchers essentially. The main difference here is that you have to login them. (and you did for MMOs too back then) If that is the price we have to pay for one company not to control the entire PC gaming market it; I will gladly pay it.
People calling out Epic for putting exclusives on there platform is identical to when it happened with Steam originally. I distinctly remember people getting pretty annoyed, on these forums even, about Steam exclusives back in the day. All I see now a days is those same people most likely complaining that now Epic is stealing Steam's precious exclusives like everyone has some crazy case of Stockholm Syndrome.
Remember when every MMO had it's own patcher/launcher?
How is this case of "too many storefronts" a whole lot different than that?
I'm not buying this kind of opinion.
It's like.. we all do our weekly food shopping, right? If we had to get bread from one store, fruit from a different store, milk from another, canned goods and cereal from another, frozen food from a different one, meat from another, soda from another, wine from another, etc. etc.
That analogy makes no sense. Its more like, we have one grocery store (PC) and people claim that one aisle (Steam) is better then another aisle (Epic Store) for one reason or another.
That argument works for consoles though!
Digital platforms on PC that sell games are different shops, literally. The analogy is fine.
We aren't buying games from 'PC' are we..?
You might be a little confused here. This is why that analogy still made no sense even when I applied the same logic. Basically what I am saying is that your analogy is not correct. You are trying to compare it as if we are doing some extra legwork to get our games on a different platform, when we are really not. We have to setup accounts on both platforms (takes similar / same amount of time) and then the rest you can do in the same time; hell, at the same time if you want. It is not like we are going to physical stores, we are clicking an icon that is likely half an inch away or less.
I'm not confused, you're just trying to pick fault for some reason. I'm well aware that it's not 'major' effort to use another launcher. But it's more effort than just picking one. We need to know which store is selling the game we want though and we need to find that out. That's easy for lurkers like us but we are not a large demographic.
It's the principle of the analogy that is the same; most people like to be able to go to one place to get whatever they need or want. It makes life easier.
I don't know why you're talking about game launchers.. digital storefronts are not 'just' game launchers. They are shops as well.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
People calling out Epic for putting exclusives on there platform is identical to when it happened with Steam originally. I distinctly remember people getting pretty annoyed, on these forums even, about Steam exclusives back in the day. All I see now a days is those same people most likely complaining that now Epic is stealing Steam's precious exclusives like everyone has some crazy case of Stockholm Syndrome.
My position is that I don't want there to be exclusivity between storefronts. I'd rather see the games available on both Steam and Epic's store.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Remember when every MMO had it's own patcher/launcher?
How is this case of "too many storefronts" a whole lot different than that?
I'm not buying this kind of opinion.
It's like.. we all do our weekly food shopping, right? If we had to get bread from one store, fruit from a different store, milk from another, canned goods and cereal from another, frozen food from a different one, meat from another, soda from another, wine from another, etc. etc.
That analogy makes no sense. Its more like, we have one grocery store (PC) and people claim that one aisle (Steam) is better then another aisle (Epic Store) for one reason or another.
That argument works for consoles though!
Digital platforms on PC that sell games are different shops, literally. The analogy is fine.
We aren't buying games from 'PC' are we..?
You might be a little confused here. This is why that analogy still made no sense even when I applied the same logic. Basically what I am saying is that your analogy is not correct. You are trying to compare it as if we are doing some extra legwork to get our games on a different platform, when we are really not. We have to setup accounts on both platforms (takes similar / same amount of time) and then the rest you can do in the same time; hell, at the same time if you want. It is not like we are going to physical stores, we are clicking an icon that is likely half an inch away or less.
I'm not confused, you're just trying to pick fault for some reason. I'm well aware that it's not 'major' effort to use another launcher. But it's more effort than just picking one. We need to know which store is selling the game we want though and we need to find that out. That's easy for lurkers like us but we are not a large demographic.
It's the principle of the analogy that is the same; most people like to be able to go to one place to get whatever they need or want. It makes life easier.
I don't know why you're talking about game launchers.. digital storefronts are not 'just' game launchers. They are shops.
So you are upset that people who don't argue on forums in the middle of the night, who know all the information there is to know about upcoming releases, are not informed? I can tell your right now the average gamer who doesn't look into this stuff either (a) Doesn't know the Epic launcher exists or (b) will download the launcher without much of a second thought when their friend gets them to buy some new exclusive. It really doesn't really matter. We don't need to defend the village on this one.
Let the companies duke it out for our money and we can reap the benefits as we start to see more competitive sales / platform improvements across the board. (This includes the console stores)
It doesn't matter what digital storefronts are, you can call them shops, you can call them launchers, you can call them popsicle stands -- or vanilla wafers; they are just a piece of software in the end that we, as users, launch, login, play/buy a game or 2, and close or idle in. That much doesn't really matter to me.
What I take issue with is that people are yelling about exclusives sooo much! There is SO MUCH MORE to complain about with the Epic store. As I said in a prior post in this thread, there is a pretty huge list of complaints that are far far more of an issue then exclusives! They don't have a phone authenticator, for one, like wtf @ that one?
Comments
I also get tired of apple and android taking 30% of my money away when I use their store.
Yep, no charge for online play there, either.
Either way, this price difference for you lot doesn't extend to everyone.. which is kind of messed up.
start doing your own games! epic installed, prob solved. :P
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
WE should also realize that Steam/Valve does not care even .001% about your or me or any customer,all they care about is Valve.Valve USED to have a greenlight system,not that is was done well or all that meaningful but at least not every crap game was making it onto Steam.Now? roflmao,every piece of trash game on the planet is on Steam,they have ZERO morals,credibility or care about the quality of the industry,all games mean to them is the more they can sell the more money they make.
Their refund policy as is Epic's is only the absolute bare minimum by law thanks to the European union and Aussies and NZ gets an even better deal.Point being Valve don't give a crap about us ,so to make a statement like "it is unfair to Steam users" is rubbish.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I feel, personally, that something I was told I could have, on Steam, has been taken away from me.
Despite my previous posts on this thread about how I will play this game now, I am an achievement hunter.. I find I get more out my purchases that way.. it's not about bragging rights or anything, I know they are superficial and meaningless really. I just like having clearly presented goals in front of me, I find it fun. I do that achievement hunting on Steam. Therefore, I would have liked to have had this game in my Steam library.
Is it unfair that I was planning to buy something, on the platform that I wanted, and now I can't? I feel it is. So, I'm a Steam user and I feel it was unfair.. their statement is 100% accurate.
Denuvo heavily causes performance impacts for those who run i7 / i9 possibly AMD Multi-Core / Thhread cpu's and are running 2 or more games at once, Denuvo basically drains resources because of it "VM Code, Anti-Tamper Checks" and thus draws resources away from other games or tasks that need them.
Right now I am guessing Epic Games maybe under a DDOS attack anyways I tried to get on and Google it apparently it's down to everyone, and on the day they announce partnerships and Metro on Epic Only !
And Valve is right it's totally unfair, I would rathher pay 30% more to buy the game on Steam, than Epic Games store, because Epic Games launcher has a bug that sometimes but rarely eats up a huge amount of CPU resources in the background and has to be manually closed because whatever you are running starts lagging really hard.
So for now Metro = No Buy, I will wait and see if the game may go Free 2 Play in the future but beyond that Denuvo + Epic Games Store for now is a huge no.
Consumers should have choice on where they get their games.
Steam doesn't do this.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
As a market matures and distributing games online becomes easier than it used to be, why does the publisher take need to remain so high? One would hope that competition would bring that down. Even if Steam were to greatly reduce its 30% cut of sales and remain the dominant publisher of PC games, that would still be tremendous progress.
If you feel it isn't a hassle to have multiple launchers, that's your business. I don't feel the same way, because it adds stress unnecessarily to the amount of accounts, user names and passwords, risks, ease of communication and access of my purchases.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
It's like.. we all do our weekly food shopping, right? If we had to get bread from one store, fruit from a different store, milk from another, canned goods and cereal from another, frozen food from a different one, meat from another, soda from another, wine from another, etc. etc.
That's crazy, right? No one would do that unless they had no other option; they can't afford to shop at just one place so they need to grab all the bargains or none of the other places sold cereal so you had to get them from the cereal store.
A launcher required to patch a game is not a shopping platform. Having the things you want to buy spread out is like going back to the dark ages. It's redundant, time consuming, stressful, illogical, impractical... we've evolved past this kind of thing in developed countries.
No, we developed things like supermarket chains. Here's the difference though, all products are available at any of the supermarket chains. One of them doesn't exclusively sell cereal when the others can't. No, you pick your favourite supermarket and that's where you tend to buy all your food. Doesn't matter if Tescos is selling the cereal you want a bit cheaper than Morisson's, you like to shop at Morrison's.
(These are UK supermarkets btw)
That analogy works for consoles though!
We aren't buying games from 'PC' are we..?
This is absolutely the same as when every MMO had it's own launcher. The key difference here is that there is multiple games on that launcher. It is not like you have 30 different launchers, you have maybe 5 at the most. Back in the day we had every game on different launchers essentially. The main difference here is that you have to login them. (and you did for MMOs too back then) If that is the price we have to pay for one company not to control the entire PC gaming market it; I will gladly pay it.
People calling out Epic for putting exclusives on there platform is identical to when it happened with Steam originally. I distinctly remember people getting pretty annoyed, on these forums even, about Steam exclusives back in the day. All I see now a days is those same people most likely complaining that now Epic is stealing Steam's precious exclusives like everyone has some crazy case of Stockholm Syndrome.
It's the principle of the analogy that is the same; most people like to be able to go to one place to get whatever they need or want. It makes life easier.
I don't know why you're talking about game launchers.. digital storefronts are not 'just' game launchers. They are shops as well.
Let the companies duke it out for our money and we can reap the benefits as we start to see more competitive sales / platform improvements across the board. (This includes the console stores)
It doesn't matter what digital storefronts are, you can call them shops, you can call them launchers, you can call them popsicle stands -- or vanilla wafers; they are just a piece of software in the end that we, as users, launch, login, play/buy a game or 2, and close or idle in. That much doesn't really matter to me.
What I take issue with is that people are yelling about exclusives sooo much! There is SO MUCH MORE to complain about with the Epic store. As I said in a prior post in this thread, there is a pretty huge list of complaints that are far far more of an issue then exclusives! They don't have a phone authenticator, for one, like wtf @ that one?