I always thought games would be like UO or SWG. I do remember the wonder and hope with games up until after WoW. At certain point you just understood the game.
To be fair, WoW has some nice worlds too.
Well I was saying after WoW. I think WoW was a well crafted game. Especially compared to the clones.
I always thought games would be like UO or SWG. I do remember the wonder and hope with games up until after WoW. At certain point you just understood the game.
To be fair, WoW has some nice worlds too.
Well I was saying after WoW. I think WoW was a well crafted game. Especially compared to the clones.
Oh! My bad! For some reason I interpreted that as WoW being the game that made you lose that wonder and hope.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
I love the feeling of being in a virtual world, but I feel a lot of single player games deliver that at least as well as MMOs do. But, maybe I just have a good imagination, since I felt like I was in a virtual world way back when I played Final Fantasy 7 for the first time. No, even before that, when I played Myst for the first time.
I agree and can name a few single player games that had/have wonderful worlds.
What MMOs bring is the "unknown factor." Other players add something to the game, many times even good things
Single player games are all scripted to the last line of code. There is no randomness at all to those worlds. They certainly give the illusion of randomness, but really aren't. Single player games, more-so today, also like to cutscene us into to oblivion. It's a lot harder for MMOs to work in cut scenes, though some have tried
I tried to heal a Mammoth in Skyrim, fighting some Sabrecats. That silly elephant left the cats and attacked me! In an MMO, I may get attacked for a drive by heal or not.
Why I like MMORPGs is the other players adding to the game. All NPC talk is canned, whether in single player or MMOs. Chat with another player has no bounds, good or bad. Other players can give minor tasks to lower level players, like gathering spell components. You could be losing in a fight and MMOs allow other players to ask, "Do you need or want help?" Never seen that in a single player game
Don't get me wrong. My game time is spent almost 99.9% with single player games these days, as MMOs are not for me anymore. I enjoy the worlds some of these single player games have created. But they are canned with very few surprises. I enjoy Skyrim so much because it so vast I still find new things in the game with each new game. But those things were there from the beginning, not added later or by another player.
I hope that long-winded reply made sense
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
THis is kind of what I'm talking about, the "epic looters" who have no real desire to RP in a MMORPG , but simply gain recognition because of "fats loots". People wonder why they will never be happy, it is simply because if you started with #o# or even thought #0# was remotely good you really aren't an mmorgp player imho.
So you went from me not wanting to play in an online house to my being an "epic looter" who isn't a "mmorpg player?" That's quite a leap.
Judging from your post, I don't think you know what a WoW Garrison is.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
You say this, but I'm doing that exact thing in Black Desert Online. Black Desert housing makes it possible to feel apart of a world, I have a house tht is my central point every time I log in; I rarely log out of the game anywhere but at my house; it is my house with usuable furnishing, In town there's markets, inns and other places where I can get items or sell items. From my house I travel across the lands to fight monsters in untold stories, and then I head back to my 3 story house in Hiedel. For the past few days I've done farming, fishing , gather ' around my central hub" hiedel. At this very second I'm brewing beer for my workers.
That is where people miss out in Black Desert in my opinion. People who come from games like WoW assume the game is about the epic gear grind grind grind until they hit the soft cap ( and their faces melt of the effort it takes to become epic ), that is only a small part of the game .
If one doesn't get into thew housing in any game, then yes, your view would be correct, but to generals that we are "all" in this lull of mmos is a person subjective opinion, one for which I don't share, at all.
This year is year 3 for me in BDO
I'm not going to knock BDO, as I have not played it. And I'm glad for you and for anyone else who has found a game they truly like.
But just from what you posted, making beer for my workers so they can gather what I need to play house is not the fantasy adventure I am seeking.
I get that your house is also a jumpoff point to go fight monsters. But it also seems much like WoW's garrison, which I didn't really care for.
The house is a house. It is on a street in Hiedel with a street number. Insdie I have Cooking and chemistry all usaable. The top floor is my bedroom I got three beds incase of company. My workers are real in game world ,npcs that I can spot traveling to their work areas.
I just looked at #0# gari/sson , nothing like that all. IO don't "jump off " from house in BDO because that is where I live. It is myty permant house in the game world, it serves as my home in BDO .
THis is kind of what I'm talking about, the "epic looters" who have no real desire to RP in a MMORPG , but simply gain recognition because of "fats loots". People wonder why they will never be happy, it is simply because if you started with #o# or even thought #0# was remotely good you really aren't an mmorgp player imho.
All kinds of role playing, I never had much use for crafting or setting up a house, too much like real life I guess.
Chasing loot is the strawman you keep building for yourself, in my case I fancy myself more of a soldier of fortune, explorer or adventurer.
I role played to the extreme as a member of the "kobo" hordes, right down to a special language and a totally communal shared resources society where the clan owned everything, and provided for all of our needs.
"A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting anargument that was not presented by that opponent."
just so you understand what a strawman is, because it is obvious you don't have clue but use the term like a fallcy.
In order to have a straman argument one must be providing information as an objective fact. I have not and maintained my "opinion" view . Unlike your rebuttal which is in fact a strawman because you are using the term "strawman "as an anchor of legitimacy or "truth". Just so you know.
Your first strawman presented as fact to support your opinion on why people don't get BDO. "That is where people miss out in Black Desert in my opinion. People who come from games like WoW assume the game is about the epic gear grind grind grind until they hit the soft cap ( and their faces melt of the effort it takes to become epic ), that is only a small part of the game ."
2nd strawman came here, arguing something I never said or even implied in my OP or its follow-ups. "Your attempt to draw some conclusion that "no games" fits your standard so the whole genre is shit argument is old boring and redundant to the 21st century of gaming."
3rd Strawman, again never stating such, just a projection on your part, "But I guess the world revolves around you .... #snooze thread "
The next strawman is a rant against WOW which again wasn't put forth by anyone in this thread but you. "People get so fixated on gear , and #o# is largly responsible for this, they simply don't think there is anything else in BDO, because they don't got the epics gear."
Just so you know, gamers have been fixated on gear since the earliest RPGs, and certainly most of us gear chased in early MMORPGs.
In fact, DAOC was the first game I used spreadsheets to calculate spell crafting charges for optimization of crafted gear and who didn't want Dragon raid loot including weapon dyes, glowies and respec stones?
Finally, to this point, "In order to have a straman argument one must be providing information as an objective fact."
Where did you pull this from? First definition I come across is
"A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."
I've clearly shown you arguing against points no one here including me ever made, which as I said I'm not interested in debating.
Perhaps if you quit trying so hard to come across as an aggrieved party for issues entirely fabricated by you and trying to belittle my understanding of a term the conversation might be more productive.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For myself that feeling we had back then is now in the VR realm for me. mmo or game back then I felt were like windows into another world/reality...your basic form of escapism to get away from real life and live in another.
I think with VR it bring back some of the amazeballs factor because the immersion can be so much more though I grant there still a long way to go for VR.
VR is a game changer (pun intended).
I let my 5 year old try on my Gear VR for a minute the other day, and his sense of wonder was immediate and palpable. His reaction was more or less I can't believe it... I'm inside Minecraft?
I made him take it off after literally a minute as there are warnings in the owner manual and on starting up the system that it's not for children under 13 due to uncertainty in how it might affect developing eyesight. Looking forward to the release of the Quest.
Wake me up when we got .hack//sign or Log Horizon level VR. That to me is what VR is, not what we call "VR".
I love the feeling of being in a virtual world, but I feel a lot of single player games deliver that at least as well as MMOs do. But, maybe I just have a good imagination, since I felt like I was in a virtual world way back when I played Final Fantasy 7 for the first time. No, even before that, when I played Myst for the first time.
I agree and can name a few single player games that had/have wonderful worlds.
What MMOs bring is the "unknown factor." Other players add something to the game, many times even good things
Single player games are all scripted to the last line of code. There is no randomness at all to those worlds. They certainly give the illusion of randomness, but really aren't. Single player games, more-so today, also like to cutscene us into to oblivion. It's a lot harder for MMOs to work in cut scenes, though some have tried
I tried to heal a Mammoth in Skyrim, fighting some Sabrecats. That silly elephant left the cats and attacked me! In an MMO, I may get attacked for a drive by heal or not.
Why I like MMORPGs is the other players adding to the game. All NPC talk is canned, whether in single player or MMOs. Chat with another player has no bounds, good or bad. Other players can give minor tasks to lower level players, like gathering spell components. You could be losing in a fight and MMOs allow other players to ask, "Do you need or want help?" Never seen that in a single player game
Don't get me wrong. My game time is spent almost 99.9% with single player games these days, as MMOs are not for me anymore. I enjoy the worlds some of these single player games have created. But they are canned with very few surprises. I enjoy Skyrim so much because it so vast I still find new things in the game with each new game. But those things were there from the beginning, not added later or by another player.
I hope that long-winded reply made sense
I loved early MMORPG because of the unknown and unpredictability. The genre is now very predictable and not really a journey or establishment of my character.
One reason why I hope someone can bring meaningful player conflict and back away from easy content of questing, insane power progression and loot. These are usually just empty and boring events just to string us along because there usually isn't anything to the games. They usually aren't fun things but work justified by sparklies.
For myself that feeling we had back then is now in the VR realm for me. mmo or game back then I felt were like windows into another world/reality...your basic form of escapism to get away from real life and live in another.
I think with VR it bring back some of the amazeballs factor because the immersion can be so much more though I grant there still a long way to go for VR.
VR is a game changer (pun intended).
I let my 5 year old try on my Gear VR for a minute the other day, and his sense of wonder was immediate and palpable. His reaction was more or less I can't believe it... I'm inside Minecraft?
I made him take it off after literally a minute as there are warnings in the owner manual and on starting up the system that it's not for children under 13 due to uncertainty in how it might affect developing eyesight. Looking forward to the release of the Quest.
Wake me up when we got .hack//sign or Log Horizon level VR. That to me is what VR is, not what we call "VR".
We ready at .hack//sign and Log Horizon level , it just that there are no game yet .
And Log Horizon is not VR but another world , the game version itself is just PC one .
.Hack// is using HMD head mounted display and use controller to control character . The HMD using in .hack// is 3DoF , same level with oculus go that connect with PC . The game itself i think is same with skyrim using 3DoF VR on console .
Instead of big world , .Hack// use zones . So i think you can run less than 1000 players in one zone with action FPS combat easy .
ih .hack// most people using same character skins so i think it's pretty light to run compare to heavy custom character games .
Yep, they were playing a VR mmorpg called Elder Tale and something happened during an expansion update to where the people who were online during it got permanently stuck there.
I remember the first years of MMORPGs were a joy. Multiplayer worlds with other people was a new, novel thing. Everyone was excited about it. Players were a lot more social back then. Groups were the norm. I remember in Star Wars Galaxies, if I wasn't in a group, even if it was composed fully of strangers, it was a weird occasion. I log in, eventually I typically found my way in a group. Whether it was in a hunting party on some place like Dathomir, Lok, etc., or one of the starter areas where I took my well established, equipped character and helped out new players learn the game. I did that the same way some veteran player showed me the ropes when he saw me struggle with stuff out in the middle of nowhere. I remember during those long hunting groups, there would be breaks, someone would setup a camp. People actually... You know... TALKED to each to each other.
Things started changing in the mid 2000s. Devs started implementing penalties to groups (less XPs being a very annoying one), characters being more self sufficient in all cases and no longer needing the aid of other players, class types. MMORPGs even got to a point where you can play from start thru endgame and not require any other player at any time to group up with. A few even gave companion NPCs in an MMORPG so you don't even need to form a player party at all.
The players also became more anti-social with groups. If you found an MMORPG where groups were actually formed, as soon as the quest is done, the group instantly disperses, most not even saying, "Bye!"
IMO, MMORPGs today are a farce, especially as time has gone on. They are closer to an SPRPG that requires a constant internet connection to play.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
For myself that feeling we had back then is now in the VR realm for me. mmo or game back then I felt were like windows into another world/reality...your basic form of escapism to get away from real life and live in another.
I think with VR it bring back some of the amazeballs factor because the immersion can be so much more though I grant there still a long way to go for VR.
VR is a game changer (pun intended).
I let my 5 year old try on my Gear VR for a minute the other day, and his sense of wonder was immediate and palpable. His reaction was more or less I can't believe it... I'm inside Minecraft?
I made him take it off after literally a minute as there are warnings in the owner manual and on starting up the system that it's not for children under 13 due to uncertainty in how it might affect developing eyesight. Looking forward to the release of the Quest.
Wake me up when we got .hack//sign or Log Horizon level VR. That to me is what VR is, not what we call "VR".
We ready at .hack//sign and Log Horizon level , it just that there are no game yet .
And Log Horizon is not VR but another world , the game version itself is just PC one .
.Hack// is using HMD head mounted display and use controller to control character . The HMD using in .hack// is 3DoF , same level with oculus go that connect with PC . The game itself i think is same with skyrim using 3DoF VR on console .
Instead of big world , .Hack// use zones . So i think you can run less than 1000 players in one zone with action FPS combat easy .
ih .hack// most people using same character skins so i think it's pretty light to run compare to heavy custom character games .
You know what i think you're right on both of those. I gave terrible examples, just grabbed at the easiest thing most would recognize but over the years my memory has blurred and i forgot that you're right in both of those anime's it was mentioned that it was essentially a PC game that they were playing(i remember Subaru crying in front of her pc now).
A better example of what i'm wanting but lesser known due to no anime is a korean novel Overgeared. Players logged onto that vr mmorpg by getting inside of a capsule, their bodies essentially asleep. The game had accelerated time, i believe it was set to 3x the time of irl. So, it was all in your head basically. Another example of yet another korean novel is Rebirth of the Thief Who Roamed the World, which like the first one i mentioned players would connect to the game via a capsule with no controller whatsoever.
Yep, they were playing a VR mmorpg called Elder Tale and something happened during an expansion update to where the people who were online during it got permanently stuck there.
I am almost certain it was a regular game as they talked about keyboard and mouse.
Yep, they were playing a VR mmorpg called Elder Tale and something happened during an expansion update to where the people who were online during it got permanently stuck there.
I am almost certain it was a regular game as they talked about keyboard and mouse.
Then they upgrade it to headset and baam , everyone go to another world XD . Basically there are no VR tech relate on Log H . Just MAGIC
You know what i think you're right on both of those. I
gave terrible examples, just grabbed at the easiest thing most would
recognize but over the years my memory has blurred and i forgot that
you're right in both of those anime's it was mentioned that it was
essentially a PC game that they were playing(i remember Subaru crying in
front of her pc now).
A better example of what
i'm wanting but lesser known due to no anime is a korean novel
Overgeared. Players logged onto that vr mmorpg by getting inside of a
capsule, their bodies essentially asleep. The game had accelerated time,
i believe it was set to 3x the time of irl. So, it was all in your
head basically. Another example of yet another korean novel is Rebirth
of the Thief Who Roamed the World, which like the first one i mentioned
players would connect to the game via a capsule with no controller
whatsoever.
That level of tech is hax and that will be ban by any government that have enough power to create them . Do you know 3x of time mean ?
Basically what you said is some thing called full Drive
Yep, they were playing a VR mmorpg called Elder Tale and something happened during an expansion update to where the people who were online during it got permanently stuck there.
I am almost certain it was a regular game as they talked about keyboard and mouse.
Then they upgrade it to headset and baam , everyone go to another world XD . Basically there are no VR tech relate on Log H . Just MAGIC
You know what i think you're right on both of those. I
gave terrible examples, just grabbed at the easiest thing most would
recognize but over the years my memory has blurred and i forgot that
you're right in both of those anime's it was mentioned that it was
essentially a PC game that they were playing(i remember Subaru crying in
front of her pc now).
A better example of what
i'm wanting but lesser known due to no anime is a korean novel
Overgeared. Players logged onto that vr mmorpg by getting inside of a
capsule, their bodies essentially asleep. The game had accelerated time,
i believe it was set to 3x the time of irl. So, it was all in your
head basically. Another example of yet another korean novel is Rebirth
of the Thief Who Roamed the World, which like the first one i mentioned
players would connect to the game via a capsule with no controller
whatsoever.
That level of tech is hax and that will be ban by any government that have enough power to create them . Do you know 3x of time mean ?
Basically what you said is some thing called full Drive
Full dive VR tech is likely centuries away, if even.
Creating full dive VR would mean we as a species de facto solved the "hard problem", which may not have a solution despite what Reddit or other various forum neckbeards say. It is more likely that computer simulations become so advanced and detailed they rival reality itself in terms of attention-worthiness, rather than the simulations mimicking actual reality in every aspect. Just my 2c.
I really only address it because playing my favorite video game ever on an orientation-sensitive, affordable head-mounted-display is something I'd wanted to do since the early 2000s. When I heard it was happening, I was elated. Oh, it's stereoscopic? Bangin! Oh, we're... we're calling it Virtual Reality? Awesome! Rolls off the tongue more easily than orientation-sensitive-stereoscopic-head-mounted-display I guess, though that's all I really wanted.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
A VR headset would be a lot more interesting if it was synced to an real life environment. This would allowing you play in a huge place or even outside and turn something into a huge fantasy land.
A VR headset would be a lot more interesting if it was synced to an real life environment. This would allowing you play in a huge place or even outside and turn something into a huge fantasy land.
This is the only way i could see VR being more than just gimmicky. If they could sync up everyone's view and positoning to a real life environment, then VR would be amazing. As it is though, meh it's cool but doesn't excite me like full dive does.
If however we were playing say VR soccer(as an example) in an a soccer field sized area/room and the game was syncced to the irl soccer field sized area/room, that would be amazing. Even more amazing if it could have the people playing with you's positioning irl in the VR game that you see too(basically only way to play such a game with other people, otherwise you'd be crashing into each other full sprint).
A VR headset would be a lot more interesting if it was synced to an real life environment. This would allowing you play in a huge place or even outside and turn something into a huge fantasy land.
As someone has already pointed out that is one of the 'hard' problems. Every individuals neural map is different, even designing that jack is a 'hard' problem, probably impossible actually. You would have to interface with a large number of brain areas, the number and location of these areas will vary to an extent from individual to individual. If this is even possible you are looking at least a century to achieve just the jack. Then there is the volume of the data and the processing it for transmission, again we don't have systes systems capable of doing that, not even today's super computers. Allow at least fifty years for that.
No, the sort of experience you are hoping for is going to remain science fiction for at least in our lifetime.
A VR headset would be a lot more interesting if it was synced to an real life environment. This would allowing you play in a huge place or even outside and turn something into a huge fantasy land.
As someone has already pointed out that is one of the 'hard' problems. Every individuals neural map is different, even designing that jack is a 'hard' problem, probably impossible actually. You would have to interface with a large number of brain areas, the number and location of these areas will vary to an extent from individual to individual. If this is even possible you are looking at least a century to achieve just the jack. Then there is the volume of the data and the processing it for transmission, again we don't have systes systems capable of doing that, not even today's super computers. Allow at least fifty years for that.
No, the sort of experience you are hoping for is going to remain science fiction for at least in our lifetime.
I would figure jacks would have to be something used more universally than just gaming. Like think of a cellphone has games but its application is it's secondary use.
Using being jacked in to view entertainment, virtual classes and offices and a number of other things would come first. I am sure there would be a lot of resistance to having essentially brain surgery as well.
A VR headset would be a lot more interesting if it was synced to an real life environment. This would allowing you play in a huge place or even outside and turn something into a huge fantasy land.
As someone has already pointed out that is one of the 'hard' problems. Every individuals neural map is different, even designing that jack is a 'hard' problem, probably impossible actually. You would have to interface with a large number of brain areas, the number and location of these areas will vary to an extent from individual to individual. If this is even possible you are looking at least a century to achieve just the jack. Then there is the volume of the data and the processing it for transmission, again we don't have systes systems capable of doing that, not even today's super computers. Allow at least fifty years for that.
No, the sort of experience you are hoping for is going to remain science fiction for at least in our lifetime.
While i think it's more likely you're right in the time frame if it ever becomes possible, i'd just like to note that people said the same thing about a lot of the stuff we have today that many of us take forgranted even. Like our smartphones and what not. People also would have thought that impossible and in the realm of science fiction.
A VR headset would be a lot more interesting if it was synced to an real life environment. This would allowing you play in a huge place or even outside and turn something into a huge fantasy land.
As someone has already pointed out that is one of the 'hard' problems. Every individuals neural map is different, even designing that jack is a 'hard' problem, probably impossible actually. You would have to interface with a large number of brain areas, the number and location of these areas will vary to an extent from individual to individual. If this is even possible you are looking at least a century to achieve just the jack. Then there is the volume of the data and the processing it for transmission, again we don't have systes systems capable of doing that, not even today's super computers. Allow at least fifty years for that.
No, the sort of experience you are hoping for is going to remain science fiction for at least in our lifetime.
While i think it's more likely you're right in the time frame if it ever becomes possible, i'd just like to note that people said the same thing about a lot of the stuff we have today that many of us take forgranted even. Like our smartphones and what not. People also would have thought that impossible and in the realm of science fiction.
Actually no, people never said that about 'smart phones', and every example of 'what not' I have ever seen has also been false.
A VR headset would be a lot more interesting if it was synced to an real life environment. This would allowing you play in a huge place or even outside and turn something into a huge fantasy land.
As someone has already pointed out that is one of the 'hard' problems. Every individuals neural map is different, even designing that jack is a 'hard' problem, probably impossible actually. You would have to interface with a large number of brain areas, the number and location of these areas will vary to an extent from individual to individual. If this is even possible you are looking at least a century to achieve just the jack. Then there is the volume of the data and the processing it for transmission, again we don't have systes systems capable of doing that, not even today's super computers. Allow at least fifty years for that.
No, the sort of experience you are hoping for is going to remain science fiction for at least in our lifetime.
I would figure jacks would have to be something used more universally than just gaming. Like think of a cellphone has games but its application is it's secondary use.
Using being jacked in to view entertainment, virtual classes and offices and a number of other things would come first. I am sure there would be a lot of resistance to having essentially brain surgery as well.
That is why I separated out the 'jack' from the rest of the problem. You really are trivializing the difficulty of that neural interface with the individual variability of the human brain and the number of quite separate brain regions involved. and it is not "essentially brain surgery", but actual extensive and highly invasive brain surgery, affecting the visual cortex, the auditory cortex, as well as motor centres at the very least. A surgical problem could leave you with a deaf, blind, quadriplegic, with extensive secondary brain damage.
I was searching the internet and came across this IGN review of Everquest shortly after launch.
I actually missed it, paying little attention to online games until 2001 or so. Heck, I got most of my gaming news from paper magazines like CGW or PCGamer so probably was a delay of a year or so just to hear about it.
It's a fun read, and I recalled feeling the authors wide eyed wonder at being in this great 3D virtual world when I first played Dark Age of Camelot.
I also enjoyed this comment, especially as we still struggle with it today despite all of the technical advances.
"Since the first week things have gotten much better and even with all of the problems its still more playable than Ultima Online. This week, as in the beta, the game has rarely suffered from major lag issues now, even on a 28.8k modem"
It seems the promise and wonder is largely gone now, people just play games and no longer desire to inhabit virtual worlds.
You say this, but I'm doing that exact thing in Black Desert Online. Black Desert housing makes it possible to feel apart of a world, I have a house tht is my central point every time I log in; I rarely log out of the game anywhere but at my house; it is my house with usuable furnishing, In town there's markets, inns and other places where I can get items or sell items. From my house I travel across the lands to fight monsters in untold stories, and then I head back to my 3 story house in Hiedel. For the past few days I've done farming, fishing , gather ' around my central hub" hiedel. At this very second I'm brewing beer for my workers.
That is where people miss out in Black Desert in my opinion. People who come from games like WoW assume the game is about the epic gear grind grind grind until they hit the soft cap ( and their faces melt of the effort it takes to become epic ), that is only a small part of the game .
If one doesn't get into thew housing in any game, then yes, your view would be correct, but to generals that we are "all" in this lull of mmos is a person subjective opinion, one for which I don't share, at all.
This year is year 3 for me in BDO
I'm happy you're enjoying BDO. But for those of us who don't care about crafting, it's a very hollow experience.
Comments
For some reason I interpreted that as WoW being the game that made you lose that wonder and hope.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
What MMOs bring is the "unknown factor." Other players add something to the game, many times even good things
Single player games are all scripted to the last line of code. There is no randomness at all to those worlds. They certainly give the illusion of randomness, but really aren't. Single player games, more-so today, also like to cutscene us into to oblivion. It's a lot harder for MMOs to work in cut scenes, though some have tried
I tried to heal a Mammoth in Skyrim, fighting some Sabrecats. That silly elephant left the cats and attacked me! In an MMO, I may get attacked for a drive by heal or not.
Why I like MMORPGs is the other players adding to the game. All NPC talk is canned, whether in single player or MMOs. Chat with another player has no bounds, good or bad. Other players can give minor tasks to lower level players, like gathering spell components. You could be losing in a fight and MMOs allow other players to ask, "Do you need or want help?" Never seen that in a single player game
Don't get me wrong. My game time is spent almost 99.9% with single player games these days, as MMOs are not for me anymore. I enjoy the worlds some of these single player games have created. But they are canned with very few surprises. I enjoy Skyrim so much because it so vast I still find new things in the game with each new game. But those things were there from the beginning, not added later or by another player.
I hope that long-winded reply made sense
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Judging from your post, I don't think you know what a WoW Garrison is.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
2nd strawman came here, arguing something I never said or even implied in my OP or its follow-ups. "Your attempt to draw some conclusion that "no games" fits your standard so the whole genre is shit argument is old boring and redundant to the 21st century of gaming."
3rd Strawman, again never stating such, just a projection on your part, "But I guess the world revolves around you .... #snooze thread "
The next strawman is a rant against WOW which again wasn't put forth by anyone in this thread but you. "People get so fixated on gear , and #o# is largly responsible for this, they simply don't think there is anything else in BDO, because they don't got the epics gear."
Just so you know, gamers have been fixated on gear since the earliest RPGs, and certainly most of us gear chased in early MMORPGs.
In fact, DAOC was the first game I used spreadsheets to calculate spell crafting charges for optimization of crafted gear and who didn't want Dragon raid loot including weapon dyes, glowies and respec stones?
Finally, to this point, "In order to have a straman argument one must be providing information as an objective fact."
Where did you pull this from? First definition I come across is
"A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."
I've clearly shown you arguing against points no one here including me ever made, which as I said I'm not interested in debating.
Perhaps if you quit trying so hard to come across as an aggrieved party for issues entirely fabricated by you and trying to belittle my understanding of a term the conversation might be more productive.
Just so you know, I can do this all year.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Awesome.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
*The smell of cooking and chemistry wafts down the street from a three bedroom house.*
*You hear a small child crying.*
"@Kyleran stole my strawman and won't give it back."
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
One reason why I hope someone can bring meaningful player conflict and back away from easy content of questing, insane power progression and loot. These are usually just empty and boring events just to string us along because there usually isn't anything to the games. They usually aren't fun things but work justified by sparklies.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Things started changing in the mid 2000s. Devs started implementing penalties to groups (less XPs being a very annoying one), characters being more self sufficient in all cases and no longer needing the aid of other players, class types. MMORPGs even got to a point where you can play from start thru endgame and not require any other player at any time to group up with. A few even gave companion NPCs in an MMORPG so you don't even need to form a player party at all.
The players also became more anti-social with groups. If you found an MMORPG where groups were actually formed, as soon as the quest is done, the group instantly disperses, most not even saying, "Bye!"
IMO, MMORPGs today are a farce, especially as time has gone on. They are closer to an SPRPG that requires a constant internet connection to play.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Creating full dive VR would mean we as a species de facto solved the "hard problem", which may not have a solution despite what Reddit or other various forum neckbeards say. It is more likely that computer simulations become so advanced and detailed they rival reality itself in terms of attention-worthiness, rather than the simulations mimicking actual reality in every aspect. Just my 2c.
I really only address it because playing my favorite video game ever on an orientation-sensitive, affordable head-mounted-display is something I'd wanted to do since the early 2000s. When I heard it was happening, I was elated. Oh, it's stereoscopic? Bangin! Oh, we're... we're calling it Virtual Reality? Awesome! Rolls off the tongue more easily than orientation-sensitive-stereoscopic-head-mounted-display I guess, though that's all I really wanted.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
A VR headset would be a lot more interesting if it was synced to an real life environment. This would allowing you play in a huge place or even outside and turn something into a huge fantasy land.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
No, the sort of experience you are hoping for is going to remain science fiction for at least in our lifetime.
Using being jacked in to view entertainment, virtual classes and offices and a number of other things would come first. I am sure there would be a lot of resistance to having essentially brain surgery as well.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!